7 Contractors in 4 Weeks From Clients You Already Have

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
Are you still trying to grow your recruiting desk or business on your own? Join the Elite Recruiter Community and connect with recruiters who know your challenges. Members get unlimited access to replays from the AI Recruiting Summit, Finish the year strong and all our past events plus biweekly roundtables where we dive into sourcing business development and mindset. You'll also tap into our Billers Club for accountability and a split space to partner on roles. Join the number one growth environment for recruiters. For just $49 per month, you'll be part of a tight knit group that pushes you to grow and you can cancel anytime. Visit the link in the show notes and click Join now to get started and start mastering your craft today. Coming up on this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast, what was going through your head when you pulled the trigger and said, like crap, I'm doing this on my own?

Dawson Henis [00:00:45]:
Yeah, when I said let's go solo, I was thinking, man, I'm doing this. For the last two years I haven't relied on cold calls whatsoever. I've built what I called my lead gen machine and that's a combination of utilizing automated outreach for email and LinkedIn and it's been a game changer.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:01]:
Welcome to the Elite Recruiter Podcast with your host Benjamin Mena, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership and placements. You know the resume never tells the full story. Candidates share what really matters during conversations, on calls and interviews, over email, their motivations, salary expectations, plans to relocate. Most of that detail ends up buried in notes and forgotten. Atlas changes that. It's the AI first recruitment platform. Built to eliminate admin, it captures every conversation automatically and turns it into something you can use with MagicSearch.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:43]:
You can ask Atlas questions like who talked about wanting a four day week? Or who mentioned they're open to relocating next year? It searches across your entire database and pulls the answers instantly. No keyword guessing and no digging through old notes. You get insight from real conversations, not limited resume fields. Atlas also makes BD easier with opportunities you can track and grow client relationships powered by generative AI and built into your existing workflow. If you want visibility, smart dashboards give you a clear view of the pipeline across your business. And that's not theory. Atlas customers have reported over 40% EBITDA growth and over 80% increase in monthly billings after adopting the platform. It's built for agencies that want to grow without adding more manual work.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:27]:
Don't miss the future of recruitment. Get started with Atlas today and unlock your exclusive listener offer@reruitwithatlas.com I am so excited about this episode. The reason is a few different things. First of all, this guest started his own firm at the age of 24. God, I wasn't even thinking about that at 24. I was like, oh my God, I can never duplicate the infrastructure that Aerotech had. But here's what's also cool. You know, so often we're sitting there telling these stories on this podcast, like, you know, million dollar biller run a staffing firm that's now like 10 million, 20 million, 30 million.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:05]:
But one of the things that, like, we miss is those early days, those early days where a search firm owner that's doing great has decided to make the pivot into the staffing side also where they're actively running into the challenges that side of the industry has. So I am so excited to have Dawson here today to talk about what he has been going through after successfully launching his own staffing firm on top of the search firm that he has. So welcome to the podcast.

Dawson Henis [00:03:34]:
Yeah, Benjamin, very excited to be here. Really appreciate you having me. Looking forward to getting into it with you.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:39]:
And I'm, I am so excited about the young recruiter that I've been able to interview. Like, I get it. I'm, I've been in this space for two decades now. I'm an old dog, even though I don't think about it. But the inspiration of what is possible out there, especially those new recruiters that are just getting in industry, just seeing like, wait, I can do this too. So anyways, quick 30 second self introduction before we start diving in.

Dawson Henis [00:04:06]:
Yeah, Benjamin. So my name is Dawson Hennis. I own the search firm called Hennis Group. We're based in Atlanta, Georgia and we work primarily with manufacturers, typically headcounts 1E to 200. And we work with them primarily on roles in engineering, technicians, plant leadership, all the way up to VP and executive roles. And as of one month ago, we are also now launching a staffing division. So no longer just a permanent search firm, but also getting dirty in the contract business as well.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:34]:
Okay, so you said one month ago and you made the decision and within that one month, how many contractors do you now have on your books?

Dawson Henis [00:04:44]:
We're pretty excited to have seven contractors working actively for us right now.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:49]:
What kind of spread?

Dawson Henis [00:04:51]:
The spread, we're looking at a average of about 1300amonth each, which is cumulatively a little bit over 10k. If you wanted to annualize that if we kept it consistent, that's over 100 in 10k revenue added to the year

Benjamin Mena [00:05:05]:
that you just did and you just got started and you figured out how to do it.

Dawson Henis [00:05:09]:
Yeah, man.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:10]:
Okay, real quick, let me take a quick step back. You started your search firm at the age of 24. What the hell was going through your head at that moment?

Dawson Henis [00:05:19]:
Man, I was looking for freedom. So I had a pretty good start to the industry working for Ronstadt, a pretty, pretty big staffing organization. And they had brought me in and said, hey, Dawson, you are fresh out of college and we're going to give you a brand new territory. You're going to go build it from scratch. Go have fun. Looking back, I had no clue what I was in for and they just set me free. Looking back, that's crazy. But, man, it was like a blessing because had I not had that opportunity, I don't know that I would be doing what I'm doing right now.

Dawson Henis [00:05:50]:
And I've had the confidence to just jump into it. Like, I did that.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:53]:
Okay, so let me get this straight. Brand new to recruiting and they told you to build out a whole new desk, like a whole new industry?

Dawson Henis [00:06:02]:
Yeah, built in from scratch. So there was an existing branch. There was about eight people in there. They'd served one geographical area. They pulled me in. My territory was Greenville, South Carolina. And they said, let's, let's go build it. To be fair, I had two other people that they hired me.

Dawson Henis [00:06:16]:
One of them was gone on day two, and the other one wasn't gone much longer. That just kind of speaks to the type of turn and burn maybe experience that a lot of us had early on. But it was, it was a lot of fun. Cause I had a couple guys that I was supposed to build with, but then it just ended up being little me. So was kind of on my own, learning those lessons, kind of solo. Did have some mentors in the business I tried to latch onto. But looking back, to be honest, I was kind of out there on my own, just crapping away.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:46]:
So what was going through your head like when you pulled the trigger and said, like, crap, I'm doing this on my own?

Dawson Henis [00:06:52]:
Yeah. When I said, let's go solo, I was thinking, man, I'm doing this. Like, yes, I have the big company logo of Ronstadt, but I'm in a new territory. When I call them, they don't know the Ronstadt logo. When I'm calling a manufacturer or production manager, they don't know where I'm from. They're talking to Dawson Hennis, like, that's the guy who's getting in there, working with them, doing the staff and building the relationship. So I was really naive and said, why not go do it myself? Looking back, really glad I had that naivety. How would you want to call it? The naiveness.

Dawson Henis [00:07:20]:
Really glad that I had that. But it. That took me to where I'm at now.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:24]:
So at that point when you, like, jumped in, I'm doing this, going all in. Were you trying to build a real company or were you just trying to buy yourself freedom?

Dawson Henis [00:07:33]:
Yeah, at that point, it was just about freedom. I had no idea I would ever hire anybody. I didn't know that I would be at the position that I'm in today where I'm really trying to grow a business. I swore I would never touch contracting in my previous role. I would say I was kind of burned by the contracting space. I didn't have a great view on it. I hit, I think, two perm placements in my role and I said, I can go do this, I can go do it myself. And I just, I just jumped into it at that point.

Dawson Henis [00:07:58]:
I said, man, if I can just go bill 100k, I'm going to make 100k, I can work how I want, do it how I want. And looking back, I did bill a whopping 114k that year and the goal was hit. But at that point, that's really all it was. Man, I can go take this on my own. I can travel when I want to. I can do this the way I want to do it. I can choose my clients, the candidates I work with. And yeah, at that point, it was really just about freedom and just, just taking the jump and doing it myself.

Dawson Henis [00:08:26]:
I just knew I was meant to start a business and this was what I knew how to do and what I wanted to give it a go at.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:33]:
And during their pregame, like you, you were chatting like your zone of genius, like what you've become good at is business development. When did you realize that really could become your unfair advantage out there?

Dawson Henis [00:08:46]:
Yeah. So I would say going into this experience, I was pretty confident knowing in my previous role that I had built something from scratch. So there was really no question, could I do this again? I knew that I would. I just didn't know exactly what it would look like. And I would say that, call it that zone of genius has evolved over the times. In Henness Group, at first it was really that, that pure cold calling outreach, just reaching out, looking at job boards, searching for the business and it's evolved into a different kind of automated machine called a lead gen machine that I have in place now. But early on, it was really just that, grind it out, go visit people in person, drop in, make the phone call. And I would say it's evolved over time.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:25]:
And, you know, you're just starting off your staffing side of your business. Like, why did you finally decide? Or why did you decide decide to start that actual journey?

Dawson Henis [00:09:35]:
Yeah, that's a great question. So in the beginning of this year, I partnered up with a career coach, Diane Prince, who I have to give a lot of credit to. I know that other guests on this podcast have given her a shout out. That's actually how I came across her myself. But I came to Diane and said, hey, I've built something pretty good here. And the growth from year two to year three, there, there was growth, but it just. It didn't feel exciting. I don't know that I feel like I'm building a business at that point.

Dawson Henis [00:10:01]:
It kind of just felt like I was growing a desk gradually, which has been very gratifying and, like a great opportunity. But I've decided I really want to take it to the next level. And when I look at growing, I think of my perm placements, and you sometimes look at that big fee at the end of the year, hoping that that comes in and it hits. If not, you might be kind of scratching your head, like, man, like, what if we'd hit that? But when I'm looking at that contract piece, that's what Diane introduced to me, because I just never thought I was going to go that route. And she really got me to grasp the idea of recurring revenue. And once you have recurring revenue, you can really justify new hires and new expenses because you have something on the book, something that's sticky. And kind of looking back at previous experiences, what I've seen for this first month is that the relationships with your clients truly are sticky. I think we all know in the firm business, while the hits are really big and it.

Dawson Henis [00:10:50]:
It feels great, sometimes you. You get rolling with the client, you make the fill, and then you don't. They don't want to talk to you for six months just because they don't need you. But once you get into the contract business, it's really a sturdy relationship that you can build on.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:04]:
So let me rewind the tape a little bit. Like, how did you end up even in the recruiting world? I know you ended up at Rod, but, like, what happened before that? How'd you end up in this land of misfit toys.

Dawson Henis [00:11:16]:
Yeah, yeah, Good question. Just like everybody else that seems to come on. The pod was not looking for it. Didn't even know it was a thing. I had played college football, and during my college career, football was the main thing. That's all I really thought about. And then I got my tassel, my graduation cap, and I graduated. My parents were like, so what's next? I'm like, man, that's.

Dawson Henis [00:11:35]:
That's a good question. It's time to start thinking about that. So, thankfully, a recruiter from Ronstadt had reached out, expressed the opportunity. They threw a job title on me called a staffing manager, and I was like, ooh, cool. Manager in the title. I'm going to be a manager. Let's go, let's do this interview. So get in there.

Dawson Henis [00:11:53]:
They just told me that I was going to be selling, that I was going to be building a territory. They didn't talk to me about staffing. I didn't even know. Looking back just at how naive I was, the questions I didn't ask, I knew I'd be selling. I had no clue what I was recruiting for. When I showed up for training the first day. I didn't know if I was recruiting for accountants. I didn't know if I was recruiting for a manufacturing company.

Dawson Henis [00:12:12]:
I didn't know if I was recruiting salespeople. I just knew that I had an opportunity to go sell and build. An opportunity for myself.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:19]:
I like that. Hey, we found a college athlete and we're going to give him a title manager. We're going to suck him in that way. Genius.

Dawson Henis [00:12:26]:
Yeah, they got me.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:28]:
Yeah, I think that's how they got a lot of us athletes. Yeah. Okay, so you did a good job kind of talking about how you build that out and making that jump. But I want to. I want to kind of go into your first few years of you being

Dawson Henis [00:12:40]:
out on your own.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:41]:
You wanted this to be a lifestyle business, right?

Dawson Henis [00:12:44]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:45]:
Talk about that.

Dawson Henis [00:12:47]:
Yeah. So at first it was just about the lifestyle. I knew that I wanted to go bill 100k and that would be good. But I think just kind of maybe jumping back to being a previous athlete, that kind of what we're talking about in the pregame, just that desire to keep growing and build on that skill set. That desire to keep growing was there. So at the end of year one, I said to myself, okay, I'm running this little desk. I have two, three clients that I've built, but I'm not really, not really going to have to I'm not really selling, I'm not really expanding. So I was like, what could I do here to make that next step? So at the end of year one, I found who is now my recruiting manager, Sarah Literal.

Dawson Henis [00:13:22]:
She is a total all star and such a big reason for our success and why we've built what we have. And she came and joined the team and that showed me, okay, this is a little bit more than just a lifestyle because I have someone that's relying on me and we have just an opportunity to start blasting this thing out of the park. Just because it's no longer just Dawson running with a few clients. Now it's like time to go sell. I got a recruiter who can deliver. And at that point I said, let's keep growing this thing. You see the numbers start to build, the momentum grows. And then also at that point I was 23, 24 and I had a year and a half of professional experience.

Dawson Henis [00:13:58]:
I was kind of just learning on the ropes, just trying to starting to build as I go. So I just didn't know better of what the business could be. And at this point I'm still finding out what it can be. And yeah, we just kept growing it.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:09]:
Your first recruiter, when you hired her, was she W2 or 1099?

Dawson Henis [00:14:13]:
A99 to start out. And at that point I had two clients and I said, hey, got a few clients, do you want to come help me out maybe? This might be like 20 hours a week. As soon as I got her, I started selling. We had clients. It became a full time gig right away and we haven't looked back since.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:30]:
Awesome was that pivotal moment, like where this wasn't going to be a lifestyle company anymore when you kind of became financially responsible for somebody else.

Dawson Henis [00:14:42]:
Yeah, that was a big piece of it and that still is there. And as I grow to grow the team, I definitely feel that weight on my shoulders and I want to provide for the whole team when we make a placement. My favorite thing is paying out the team. Like I love paying out those commissions. I always pay the team before I pay myself. So I think that's been a big piece of satisfaction knowing that we're providing opportunities for my team and that we can keep growing this thing together. That way it's not just me and kind of talking to it, not just being a lifestyle business and growing it. Yes, the financial reward and that promise out there is a big driver, but the collaboration of a team is like so much fun.

Dawson Henis [00:15:16]:
Having grown up playing team sports in my first role, I Enjoyed working with the team and when I went solo, it was really lonely. Those first few placements, you make the hit and then you look to your left, you look to your right, you're in your bedroom by yourself making placements. You're calling your dad, calling your girlfriend, calling your mom, like, just, hey, I made a placement. They're like, I don't really know what that is, but good job, dude, keep going.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:39]:
That is like the, one of the lonely things about this business. So, yeah, that's one reason this is brand new. I'm trying to grow out the community so that way you can celebrate that stuff with other people. But so if you're listening, if you want to join, hit me up. But yeah, it's so okay, the lifestyle business, because your numbers were pretty good going into year two and year three. Like you had good growth. That looks great on paper. You're winning work, you're growing.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:07]:
What started to feel off?

Dawson Henis [00:16:10]:
Yeah. So looking at kind of what felt off, it's just the, the feeling of stagnantation. So once again, don't know if I'm using the, the right vocabulary there, but just the feeling of being stagnant. I don't want to just grow this business and get to 300k in Billings, 400k in Billings, and just call it quits. Because at this point, I think whether you, at my age, you're 27 years old, if you're 50 years old, none of us just really want to sit in that same place. We want to keep growing. So it's just been that constant evolution. And I think a reason that I might keep growing a lot at this point is just being very early career and knowing that every year I'm getting 50% better, 50% better.

Dawson Henis [00:16:50]:
There's just still so much more growth. So it's really just that pursuit for like personal excellence, excellence, building the business and just the overall goal of growth.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:00]:
I want to spend some time on BD because I think that like you being fresher, you being newer, you also shifting into staffing in this newer point in time, I think is going to give a fresh take on bd, But I want to take a step back. Like at Ronstadt, they forced you to pretty much start a brand new territory from scratch. Looking back now, if you were given a territory that was already put together and you didn't have to build anything from scratch, it was mostly just like try to add more within the zone and take care of like recruiting stuff also, do you think you'd be in the same place Today.

Dawson Henis [00:17:38]:
So you're saying when starting the company, if I had already inherited something like.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:42]:
No, when you were looking at, when you started at Ronstan, like straight out of college and you were given like a territory already that you just had to like work on the open roles.

Dawson Henis [00:17:52]:
Yeah, certainly I do not think I would be in the same place because a lot of roles in that business there, that territory that was existing before for the rest of the team that had been there for years and to, to be fair, those people were kind of taking candidates from the database that already existed, just kind of rolling through the motions. I had to go out there, I had to build, I had to build those relationships. And while I was doing staffing, that really should have been as easy as let the folks come to the office, send them out to the assignments. I was working in remote territory that was an hour and a half, two hours from the office. So I had to go, I had to recruit remotely. Even though some of the roles I was recruiting for weren't that high level, maybe didn't necessarily require that. I had to go learn those skills. I had to learn how to go sell on the road.

Dawson Henis [00:18:36]:
I had to learn how to make those phone calls. So that, that laid the foundation and gave me the confidence, I think the skill set to get started at Henness Group. So had I had an opportunity just rolling on an existing territory, I think I could have been a good recruiter. But I don't know that I would have become a biz dev minded person. I don't know that I would have felt good about starting my own business at Rod Stod.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:58]:
How did you get your first few clients? Like, what did you do?

Dawson Henis [00:19:02]:
I walked in the back door and I said, who's hiring? You did that? Yeah, I really did that. I just didn't know better. I just was just walking in places and just saying like, hey, who's hiring? And you rub a few people the wrong way. But also sometimes you get that associate that's like, oh, come on man, I'll go introduce you to the president of the company. And you're talking to that guy that you would have never reached over email. You would have never reached him over the phone. This is a good reminder to myself that maybe I need to go walk in the back door again somewhere. But my first few clients just showing up as I got going and I had more roles to recruit for and I had a little less freedom to just go in the field and break into back doors.

Dawson Henis [00:19:41]:
I started making a little bit more strategic phone calls and Sending out emails and doing that side of things as well. But I will say to any recruiter, starting, yeah, you can get the Legion systems in place, you can work on automation, but if you want to go win a client, like, find them, go talk to them, just go do it. It's not comfortable, it's not fun, and it's just okay. It's not comfortable, it's not fun, but it works.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:05]:
And now that you have your own company, how did you get your first few clients?

Dawson Henis [00:20:10]:
Yeah, so the first client that I got, I put up one of those posts saying, hey, I started a company. To be honest, I just thought it was cool. I started a company, I wanted to put up a LinkedIn post. I didn't think I was gonna get clients from it. A connection that I had. His father, a really good friend of mine, his father was a national director at a Fortune 500. Still happens to be my biggest client at this point, and the only Fortune 500 that I work with because I typically do work with smaller businesses. He saw the post, he's like, hey, man, we've been struggling with hiring.

Dawson Henis [00:20:38]:
I want to give you a shot. And I rolled with that one. Ever since then, that is the only opportunity I've ever gotten like that. But very grateful was my first. Other than that, the first opportunities came from cold outreach. So I would be on LinkedIn, sending connection requests, seeing what kind of jobs are open, making phone calls, sending emails, just kind of those old school touch points, just forcing my way to those orders. Because when I started the business, there was no groundwork for it. Like the first day, I hadn't told clients, hey, I'm leaving.

Dawson Henis [00:21:08]:
Would you work with me if I do this? It was really just showing up on day one like, okay, I guess I gotta go get roles to fill now because I have a business now.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:19]:
So you haven't made a cold call in a long time. Like what has actually replaced cold calling?

Dawson Henis [00:21:26]:
Yeah, that's right. So for the last two years, I haven't relied on cold calls whatsoever. I've built what I called my lead gen machine. And that's a combination of utilizing automated outreach for email and LinkedIn. And it's been a game changer. I've relied less on manual outreach. And the first step to that piece is really identifying who your ICP is, that ideal customer profile. And for me, that is ownership, manufacturing leadership, VPs, management within manufacturing companies.

Dawson Henis [00:21:55]:
Less than 200 folks. So from there, build that list and reach out to those individuals with very clear messaging identifying that you serve the Problems that they have, don't reach out saying, hey, I'm a staffing firm. I'm looking to partner with you. Say, hey, I work with manufacturing firms. Do you have these kind of roles open? Is this something that you're looking to solve? Follow up with messaging that gets a little bit more details about the kind of problem that you do solve and the roles that you fill. But keep it high level. Don't play into the whole AI automation right now where you're sending those creepy messages like, hey, Salu went to Clemson University, man, I love the Tigers. Don't play into that game.

Dawson Henis [00:22:34]:
But there is a way to do automation in a way that's effective and can reach out to your icp. Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:42]:
So what kind of tools are you using for your automation?

Dawson Henis [00:22:47]:
Yeah, so when it comes to building the list, I utilize Zoom Info. I know that there are cheaper options out there. I would recommend checking out Apollo. I haven't personally got into that just because I have a Zoom Info contract, but I use Zoom Info to build that list. And then for my email sending, I'm using instantly. And then for email, I'm using dripify. Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:06]:
If you. If you're interested in those three, I'll have the links in the show notes. So I want to take a step back. You were already doing great on bd, but then you tried outsourcing your business development.

Dawson Henis [00:23:17]:
Yeah. And.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:17]:
And every single one of us have gotten those emails saying, we can handle it. We'll book all these meetings for you. Why did you actually say yes to that, man?

Dawson Henis [00:23:29]:
Just. I think we're all chasing that silver bullet at times. We're trying to grow these things. We want to grow revenue, we want opportunities, we want to kind of find an easier way. So I. I did sign up with the lead gen team, and to be fair, I got some results from them, and I saw that the process that they use could work. As we went on with it, I found myself kind of taking over the copy. I was providing the list.

Dawson Henis [00:23:53]:
I was making some. Some tightening on the screws, but I could see that the engine that they had in place worked. So I was like, man, if I could take this for myself, I could do great with it. But for the longest time, I put it off because I thought to myself, man, there's a reason that someone starts a Legion Agency. Like, obviously, that's really complicated. That's something I don't know how to do. So for the longest time, I just kept trying Legion Agency and going from one to another thinking, there's no way I can build this fast forward. I have built this for myself and yeah, it took some time, it took some effort but like once I got it going, I'm so happy that I have have built it for myself and I feel independent and like I have this machine that's just going to keep fueling us to keep growing.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:33]:
You hired, was it three different agencies spending thousands per month on these?

Dawson Henis [00:24:38]:
Yeah, that's correct. I've worked with one agency. The second one was kind of a spin off of the original. And then the third was another agency that was marketing with Legion sprinkled in. Sometimes they put a lot of pretty looking stuff on top of it, but at the end of the day you just need cold, hard, effective outreach.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:55]:
Like working with all these agencies, like did you get a chance to see but under the hood and you're like, wait, I can just buy these programs and do it myself? Is that kind of like what happened?

Dawson Henis [00:25:04]:
Yeah. So I have to give a shout out to the founder of the last agency I was working with. I started asking him questions about it and he great guy. He was like, man, I'm not going to, I'm not going to hide this from you. He goes like, this is what I do. This is Dripify. Come look at it. And we got on calls together and I was like, dude, love you, I appreciate what you've done for me, but I think I can go launch this myself.

Dawson Henis [00:25:23]:
And he was like, dude, go for it. And to be fair, I'll still send him referrals from time to time if somebody else does want someone to build it for them. But I've been able to save a lot of money and produce a lot of revenue just by building it myself. Because once you get it yourself, you also have access to make those tweaks. You can, you can play with it in real time. I would say it's great to outsource it if someone can produce the results, but you don't have the ownership of it the way that if you're doing that personalized outreach, you can still get a touch of that in your automated outreach if you're controlling it.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:55]:
You know, we get hit up all the time and I've seen some of These agencies charged 5, 10k a month and I know recruiters have paid for it, have never gotten a single result. Yeah, like what would you be your advice on vetting these firms?

Dawson Henis [00:26:12]:
Man, I would personally recommend working with one that speaks to recruiters. Maybe they have recruiting background. Like recruiter is their ideal customer. If you're working With a Legion agency that's very general and kind of shoots shots all over the place, you're going to get those initial messages, you're going to get those basic messages. Like the subject line is going to be like, quick question for you, Benjamin. Do you need xyz? And you can just tell that it just feels so generic versus when you get control of it. Or if you work with a good agency, they're going to speak the language that you would type in, like an email if you were going to send it yourself. So how do you vet it? That's a good question.

Dawson Henis [00:26:49]:
I mean, I. To be honest, it's kind of trial and error with these agencies, but if you can build it yourself, you can take control of it.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:56]:
And it's one of those things I'm sure, like working with an agency takes a lot of time. Give me the reality when you say like, I can do this myself, like in reality, how much time did it actually take you to get this engine moving and setup?

Dawson Henis [00:27:08]:
That's a good question. So building it. I already had Zoom info in place, so list grabbing was there. If you want to get on Apollo, I'm sure you can get running with that asap. When it comes to instantly, you do need to get your inboxes warmed up for a couple of weeks. So get them loaded, sit on it for a couple of weeks. Once you have that list, once those inboxes are loaded up, drag that list in there, build your three step sequence, space them out, let it start rolling. It's as simple as that.

Dawson Henis [00:27:35]:
If you have any issues with kind of the tech side of it, pull up ChatGPT on your other screen. Say, hey, this is what I'm working through. How do I get this going? And just start sending. And you're going to see pretty quickly the feedback that you're going to get. You might get a good hit, you might get a call of it, you might get a message saying, hey, this isn't right. Like, you might see that your outreach isn't hitting, but you can make adjustments, real time in there, you can adjust your script and I'm constantly making those adjustments versus outsourcing it to someone else. You don't get to do that. And I know with automated outreach it kind of gets that, that dirty association from time to time.

Dawson Henis [00:28:09]:
Because your inbox is full. My inbox is full. I get 50 messages a day. And yes, you are reaching out to a lot of people, but once you see multiple interested parties getting back to you on a weekly, sometimes daily basis, it's really hard to argue with that, that those results are in front of you and that you maybe shouldn't be doing that. Like, it's just, it's very effective.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:31]:
What do you think is like percentages wise between cold email and LinkedIn, like your business, like new business coming to you. What's the percentages?

Dawson Henis [00:28:42]:
Over the last two years, every client, except for one, has come from my automated outreach. There was one client I really wanted. I made a loom video, talked to him, gave him a shout out, talked about the role and did a really personalized outreach because I am selective from time to time. Sometimes there's that client you really want to work with, pick up the phone, make that loom video, reach out to them. But for the last two years, I have won every client through automated outreach.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:07]:
Okay, I want to pivot a little bit. I want to talk about this wonderful world of staffing that you're jumping into. You.

Dawson Henis [00:29:12]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:13]:
So I want to switch gears a little bit. I want to pivot. So you hated, I don't want to say, hey, hate is probably too strong of a word. But you didn't like contracting and staffing, like why?

Dawson Henis [00:29:25]:
Yeah, so in my initial role I would say I had a strong disliking for it by the end of my time there. So it was just a constant churn and burn. To be fair, the role that I was in early on, we were supporting kind of the mass labor and some physically demanding roles. And for every 10 people I was sending, six of them weren't there on Friday. That just doesn't feel good when you're a perfectionist, when you take your craft seriously, to feel like you just can't put what I would call a reliable product out there, that, that just doesn't feel good. So I think after a while that's why I gravitated towards the perm because I was really just on the bad side of staffing. So I was like, let's just completely course reverse and go do perm and take on some of those higher level roles. But now that I've been able to touch it with a fresh approach and take on some different kind of contract roles and see that it doesn't just have to be the churn and burn environment.

Dawson Henis [00:30:16]:
It can be some meaningful skilled trade opportunities in my space or it could be a high level engineer that's needed for a 12 month contract, that's really changed my perspective on it.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:25]:
One of the things I'm just baffled is like this company that, like this big company that you started Working for. It's a global, massive company. How did they not have an office in that city? And they made you build a whole new branch. But it's one of those things, like, we're going to make you do this skilled labor, but you're too far away to drop off donuts and make sure they're actually showing up to the office.

Dawson Henis [00:30:44]:
Yeah, that was a road. It was pretty challenging. And it's funny, I'll tell you, Benjamin, since I was interviewing candidates that were two hours sometimes from my office, we had to do drug tests before they'd get started. So I would meet folks every Tuesday and Thursday at the hibachi restaurant parking lot, and I would do drug tests in the parking lot. Imagine the small talk. Imagine the small talk just handing you the cotton swab or whatever it is and them just taking it. All right, keep that in your mouth for two minutes. And it's kind of like when the dentist is trying to talk to you.

Dawson Henis [00:31:14]:
That was the small talk that I was making in the hibachi parking lot twice a week just to get these people going, man. You would think for these big companies, we'd have it all together, but no, that's not always the case.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:25]:
They could have paid for a drug testing facility, that there's testing places everywhere. They're so cheap that they made you drive two hours two times a week for drug tests.

Dawson Henis [00:31:36]:
The hibachi parking lot, man, served us well.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:38]:
I'm angry now. For you. I would have quit, too.

Dawson Henis [00:31:41]:
Holy crap.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:43]:
I would have never touched staffing again. Okay, I gotta ask this. So now that we find out that you're, like, having to do drug test yourself in a hibachi parking lot, which is just insane for this global company that I am going to like, come on, guys. Somebody here's listening. Get your together. Okay? What made you pull, like, the trigger? Like, you know what? There's something here again, I'm interested in checking out this wonderful world of contracting again.

Dawson Henis [00:32:09]:
Yeah. For me, it really was the driver behind it, and it was the desire for the recurring revenue. So I knew that this was the most viable option. And I was like, okay, how do we find our way into this? So I was like, do I go out? Do I sell again? Do I try to start over? Start this whole contracting division? But I realized I just need to call my clients and say, hey, you guys use contractors? Before I even, like, take the jump, before I make this official, let's have those conversations. Little do I find out the majority of them are using contractors, and they're using my competition to do it. And there's just all this. There's hundreds of thousands of dollars of opportunity just sitting there with my clients. Like I mentioned, I have seven contractors in four weeks.

Dawson Henis [00:32:50]:
That's just with two of my clients, and that's over a hundred K annualized gross profit. And just by calling my clients and getting moving on that, making a few placements and what I would say, rather easy placements compared to the ones that we make on permanent basis. That's just from calling the people I already work with.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:08]:
So, like, you started to test the waters first then?

Dawson Henis [00:33:12]:
I did. I wanted to have those conversations before I. I took the full jump.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:16]:
Pretend I'm like one of your clients. Walk me through, had one of those conversations with, yeah, pretty simple.

Dawson Henis [00:33:22]:
So, hey, Benjamin, we've been working with you on these perm placements for all this time. Do you guys use contractors? So I'm exploring the idea of bringing in temp labor, contract labor, and I just wanted to see, do you guys use it? At that point, I let them talk, let them tell me about it, and I'll ask them kind of, how do you guys view it? How do you guys utilize it? And that was a really big thing for me. Is that before I started just selling it, saying, hey, I want to do this for you. I said, how do you guys view it? How do you use it? And it gave me good perspective on how our clients view it, what their relationships are like with the existing parties. But that was them with no sales pressure, just telling me, hey, this is exactly how we use it. These are the roles that we use it. And then by the end of those conversations, I'm saying, okay, well, this is something I'm thinking about doing if I launch it. Like, would you be interested in working with me? And those conversations, especially with good relationships, have led to now contract relationships.

Dawson Henis [00:34:15]:
And it's so cool seeing what we're able to build with our existing relationships. And I'm so excited to keep selling to new clients with this in our back pocket now. But the fact that we've been able to build on this, like hundreds of thousands of dollars of opportunity sitting in a lot of recruiters, firm businesses, if they just want to pull the trigger on it, it is there.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:33]:
What's been one of the biggest mindset shifts that you've had to go through personally in this change?

Dawson Henis [00:34:42]:
Yeah, that's a good question. So I think the reason that I gravitated towards the perm desk, and I think a lot of people do, is because it Feels good to hire Those managers, those VPs, fill those really big fees with the contractors. You're making a few hundred bucks a week, maybe a thousand bucks a week. Like the, the numbers are different. You're not getting that $25,000 fee, $50,000 fee, whatever someone considers to be a big fee, you're not going to see that with the contractor. You're going to have to let it see, you're going to have to let it build over time. So I would say that that big hit gratifications there. But what's then fun and also challenging is the pace of play with the contractors.

Dawson Henis [00:35:19]:
The first two orders that we got, we filled those two orders in 48 hours and had those contractors working billing hours right away. I don't know about you, when I get two perm placement opportunities, I don't usually fill them in 48 hours. I wish. I think we're capable of it, but that's just not how our clients move. So seeing the pace of play has been really exciting and it's been a challenge. It's kind of just made us discover some bottlenecks and things that we're working through. But the opportunity to grow fast is really exciting.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:50]:
Diane Prince is actually a good friend of mine, so I absolutely adore her. There's a lot of coaches out there. Why did you choose Diane?

Dawson Henis [00:35:59]:
What stood out to me? Yeah, I appreciate you asking that. What stood out to me about Diane was that she didn't have a course, she didn't have a program. I wasn't joining a group coaching program. And I think at some points in your career and your journey, that is awesome. And that's what you need. You need that peer to peer level. For me, I knew I had a very sharp objective that I was trying to achieve and I had an idea of where I was going. I just needed someone that was 2, 3, 4.

Dawson Henis [00:36:25]:
We're going to say she's 10 steps ahead of me. Someone that's way ahead of me, that knows what they're doing, that can listen to me, let me rebound my ideas off of them and then just get really sharp, direct feedback. The cool thing working about her with her is that I can bring my ideas and my objectives to the conversation. And then after a one hour conversation, I know exactly like where to go deploy it. It's all very custom to what I need at this point. And then her track record just speaks for herself, speaks for itself. Like having a $28 million exit and other exits alongside along her career. She's just as good as it gets.

Dawson Henis [00:36:59]:
And I've had a lot of mentors in my my time that are often at the peer level kind of going, doing the same thing as I'm doing. Maybe they're 12 steps ahead. But having someone that's been there and done that, it's been super helpful. Would highly recommend her to anybody that's listening, that knows that they. They're looking to take that next step and just need someone to help them see it and execute it.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:21]:
Yeah, I got one more question before we jump over to something else, but, like, the part of the staffing business that you hated, hanging out at a Hibachi Grill parking lot with people peeing at a cup. Please tell me that they use the bathroom there, right?

Dawson Henis [00:37:38]:
No, we were doing buns. We were doing the mouth. We were doing the mouth swabs. So to be fair, we could keep it in the parking lot. We could keep it classy. There was no need for any.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:47]:
Okay. Okay, that makes it feel better. I thought they were. You using a cup behind the truck?

Dawson Henis [00:37:53]:
No, I would just pull up in the Hibachi parking lot. I would open my trunk. I would kind of be looking around the parking lot, wave someone down, open my trunk, give them the goods. Like, didn't look sketchy whatsoever.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:04]:
How do you keep yourself from being another quote, unquote, body shop?

Dawson Henis [00:38:09]:
That is a good question. That's something we're navigating right now. Because naturally, in my space, the manufacturing space, temp labor is a really big piece of it. And to keep the masses on the floor. Just to clarify, some masses, not assets, like, to keep the masses on the floor, you need that staffing firm that can keep the numbers going and the opportunities there. And having those conversations, a lot of my clients have said, can you do this for us? Like, we need a bunch of these associates. We're not paying a lot, but could you do this? And we so far made the decision to not go down that path. But it is something that we're considering just because the opportunity to scale and grow our partnerships is there, and the revenue opportunity is also there.

Dawson Henis [00:38:52]:
But at this point, we have kept it pretty selective that we want to recruit for roles that feel like they really need recruitment behind it. So that's the skilled trade role. That's not the role that just someone shows up to the staffing office and you send them out. It still requires that touch, and it still allows us to position ourselves in a way that we're recruiting experts and not a staffing, staffing machine.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:13]:
So you've been in business a total of how many years now?

Dawson Henis [00:39:17]:
So Henness group, just over three years now.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:20]:
I'm kind of curious because I know starting a business is hard, especially that now that you've hired people, what lessons have cost you money so far?

Dawson Henis [00:39:31]:
Yeah. So being a recruiter, I would love to say that I'm great at recruiting for my own business, but at times we've made hires that just weren't aligned with where we were at and the goals that we were trying to achieve. I count my blessings every day that the first person I hired, which was Sarah, is still with me and kicking ass. But we've made multiple hires since then that just weren't aligned. They didn't meet the objectives. And to be fair, at the time, I might have been putting them into positions that just weren't advantageous for them. So that's been a learning opportunity for myself that I don't take lightly because I know that's people's careers and people's earnings that are at stake. But also, we've tried to learn, what did we do wrong and how can we do it better.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:14]:
You know, I think hiring, I mean, there's a whole reason why there's a whole rec to rec industry nowadays. But, like, based on your early experience with, you know, your business, what do recruiters typically get wrong about hiring for their own company?

Dawson Henis [00:40:30]:
Yeah. So I think as recruiters, we are used to being very optimistic about hiring. Like, we want to find. We want to find the good candidates, we want to make the placement. And in a way, I kind of treated that process the same for my own. Like, I wanted to make the placement. Like, I wanted to get three good candidates, put them through the process and make the hire. Even if it didn't feel right.

Dawson Henis [00:40:51]:
I just wanted to prove that we could recruit efficiently. I think we all have those clients that challenge us as recruiters, and they. They're not going to hire someone unless they're perfectly aligned. And sometimes when we're making that fourth, this sixth submittal, we're like, come on, man, like, that person was 85% there. Like, just hire them already. And I think as recruiters, we've seen from some of our really good clients that will be willing to say no and go the extra mile to find the right candidate. It's frustrating, sometimes extends the recruiting process, but we have to hold those high standards for ourselves. And when we take on searches, sometimes you get with a new prospect, a new client, and you can tell they're not clear about what they need.

Dawson Henis [00:41:31]:
And as a recruiter, that's really hard to search for. I think sometimes when we're starting our own businesses, we're just thinking about what are we doing this month, what are we doing next month? And we want to hire because we know that we're busy and we want to grow. But I think personally, I could have taken more time to reflect on what exactly do we need in the business right now. Am I equipped to train somebody for this opportunity if they don't already have that skill set? Am I willing to ask the really hard questions in the interviews? I think you just need to really take hiring seriously the way that you're really good clients do.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:05]:
You said, like, ask like a good question in interview. Like, is there a question that you wish you asked back then?

Dawson Henis [00:42:12]:
Yeah. So actually, with my most recent hire, I had some questions that Diane Prince gave me that have helped me identify who I think is a good fit for the staffing agency. So I have all my questions that are relevant to Hennis Group, our culture, how we work. But Diane gave me these four questions, and I think hopefully I can still remember them all right. But it was. Here's these four words. Compensation, career growth, work life balance, and flexibility. Can you rank those four in order of importance to you? And what we're looking for in the sapping agents is in the staffing agency, the recruiting world is that we do want someone that is motivated by financial reward, and we would like to see that they're going to answer.

Dawson Henis [00:42:53]:
I'm looking for financial incentive and ideally career growth along with it. When it comes to the work life, balance and flexibility, 100% want to hear what people have to say. And if they have a situation that requires them to. To pull out for a couple hours a day and maybe do it in the evening or like, change their hours up, I'm totally all for that. But I want to make sure that people are financially motivated. I think in this industry, at the end of the day, we are very revenue driven. And I think it's really important to keep that back in mind. I've previously hired people that I didn't ask that question.

Dawson Henis [00:43:25]:
I think in the interview, everyone's. A lot of times people say, all right, I want to make a hundred thousand dollars. And I think that's. That's been the number for a long time. I think when I got started, I just wanted to make a hundred thousand dollars. It's really easy to say, but if you don't dig into it, you might not find, like, are they intentional behind it? Because I heard them say I want to make a hundred K. But then once I get started with them, I'm like, all right, are you willing to do what it takes to bill what it takes to make 100k? And they're like eh, like if I make 80k this year, it's cool. And I think there was questions I could have asked on the front end like that simple rank, these four words in order to have maybe discovered that early on.

Dawson Henis [00:44:04]:
So I utilized that in this last process. Shout out to Diane for those, those four questions to rank. And that's really helped provide a lot clarity in our recent interview process.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:13]:
It's like, I want to make a hundred K. I'm getting 100K salary, right?

Dawson Henis [00:44:18]:
Yeah, I wish I was, man.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:20]:
So I don't think a lot of people, I'm seeing more and more of this young recruiters jumping out on their own, realizing what they're capable of doing and realizing that the there's information out, out there now and systems and processes and all this stuff that I, it just wasn't around when I started recruiting. But, but I think there's something super important that I think every single listener, no matter where you were at in your career, you're a firm owner, you are working at an agency talent acquisition, dreaming about like this is. You can't do any of this without figuring out your why, right? Was your why clear when you were making that jump?

Dawson Henis [00:45:09]:
At the time that I made the jump, the why was clear. And I will say it's something that has certainly evolved and at times I've had to really dig deeper into to find out what it is at this time and how am I going to build around it. But yes, at the time the why was about getting out of corporate America, becoming an entrepreneur, getting started. As we kept going, it just, it just keeps evolving. And I think it really is about your chapter in life. Maybe you become a new father and you have a little one running around and your why revolves around them. Maybe flexibility becomes more important to you. Maybe you're at a point in your life that you're looking to buy a house and you want to drive up your revenue.

Dawson Henis [00:45:50]:
So that might be a revenue driven why. There could be other times that you, you're prioritizing your flexibility, your travel, you want to go have experiences and maybe you build an opportunity that you can work efficiently 25, 30 hours a week. I think it's really important that we determine what our why is. Because if you know your why, you can set goals around it and I think when I've faltered in the business is the times that I didn't identify the why and I was just showing up, going through the motions. But right now I know I have a crystal clear why. And when I do, I can set goals and execute on what I'm trying to achieve during this journey.

Not a sponsor, just a recommendation: if you're getting into staffing and need back office support, Signature Back Office Solutions is genuinely good. Dawson Merry runs it, dmerry@signaturebackoffice.com. Worth a conversatio

Benjamin Mena [00:46:25]:
Did you ever, like. I know you said it wasn't clear. Did you ever feel like you lost your why?

Dawson Henis [00:46:30]:
Yeah, certainly. I think that's really easy. Running a small business and just kind of being responsible for yourself, not having always people to interact with every day and people that are kind of guiding you, you're really on your own. And it's a blessing and a curse because at any point I can wake up and decide we're going to change everything, we're going to go in this direction. But at sometimes it can be a little daunting because you just have every option at your fingertips. And you're looking at social media, you're hearing the podcast about the business center that's like way more successful than you. And then you maybe start chasing things that aren't true to yourself. So at times I've seen other people doing one thing great and I start chasing it.

Dawson Henis [00:47:11]:
I'm like, this feels just really empty because my why doesn't support this. So that's been something that's been really important to me and I want to continue to. To put forward in my career going forward. I think the most successful people and people that are really happy in their businesses understand their why because they can really build around it.

Benjamin Mena [00:47:29]:
We're sitting there talking about the importance of the why. But, you know, so often, no matter where you're at in the journey, like, you can lose easily lose your why. You can easily lose, like the thing that you're just that you're holding onto and the reason why you're doing this. And it's so easy to start, like hearing these episodes of these amazing guests like yourself and like, you almost like start chasing somebody else's why. How did you go back and ground yourself into this is my why. This is my focus. I'm back in the game again.

Dawson Henis [00:48:02]:
That's a really good question. I think it's really important to have those conversations with yourself frequently. And I think for me, it was plugging from socials for a little bit, maybe not overindulging in the podcast episodes. While you should listen to it and grab the information and 100% listen to the podcast, I 100% recommend that I still listen to them as well. But there's some times that you just need to unplug from it for a little bit and go sit with yourself and say, why am I doing this? What do I want to do? And for me personally, I think about when 5 o' clock hits, like, what do I. Where do I want to be? Who do I want to be with? Who do I want to spend my time with and when. I understand that I'm very driven by fitness and big ambitious goals, such as doing an Ironman, doing a marathon. I'm madly in love with my girlfriend.

Dawson Henis [00:48:49]:
I love my family. I want to spend time with them. I know that I can build my business in a way that supports that lifestyle and that's allowed me to set really big goals. And I think that's helped me stay accountable at other times when I just start chasing lofty goals that aren't really driven by my why, and it's just because someone else did it, that just feels a little bit empty. And what is the saying? Comparison is the thief of joy. That's very true. In building our business in this modern digital age, you can see a hundred people that are probably building it better than you, but just because, like, or they're not even building it better than you, they're just building it differently. And I think it's okay to build at your own rate.

Dawson Henis [00:49:28]:
Build it how you want to do and be gracious to yourself. Like, really appreciate that you are taking this opportunity. You're building on your own. And if you're growing, be excited about that. Like, keep going. But yes, getting back to the why. Ground yourself. Be honest with yourself and build around it.

Benjamin Mena [00:49:46]:
Make sure while you're reading other people's chapters in their book, you're also writing yours.

Dawson Henis [00:49:52]:
Beautifully said.

Benjamin Mena [00:49:54]:
So time flies. Like always. Like, I lose time all the time. I looked up and I'm like, crap. Like, this is where I should be ending the podcast. And we still have more to go before we jump into the quick fire questions. They don't need to be quick answers. Is there anything that you wanted to go deeper on that? I should have asked a better question to do that?

Dawson Henis [00:50:15]:
I think we've gone really deep on the pieces that were important to me going into this conversation. I love to talk about biz dev. I love talking about building that lead gen machine. I think if any guests want to jump deeper into it on a one on one level, I'm happy to get into that. I think looking at the contract piece for people who have established perm business, I think that's a really Good untapped opportunity that folks should consider. And like, we just discussed jumping into your why, like really understanding it. That's something that's been really helpful for me and has kind of helped me, I think, take things to the next level. That's really what I wanted to get into.

Dawson Henis [00:50:50]:
I think you're doing a great job, man.

Benjamin Mena [00:50:52]:
So thank you. If a recruiter is listening to this and they, they want to go live life on their own terms, they want that lifestyle business, they want that, that what you did for the first few years, what advice would you give them to go do it?

Dawson Henis [00:51:06]:
Okay, so when you're starting out your business, I think mastering creating demand is going to be super important. I think if you have demand, you can take the thing wherever you want to go. I think a lot of us get trapped in the early cycle of, hey, I got a client, I got two clients, this is it, I'm good, I'm set. Don't fall into that. I think you need to find a way to continue to generate demand and then if you need support to help you with the recruiting early on, I would highly recommend doing it. If you are someone, especially like myself, that's more business development minded and maybe don't love the recruiting seat as much, 100% bring in that piece and that can really help with the fulfillment. And then in terms of building that lifestyle, I do think you need to keep some guardrails in place. It can be really easy to go hang out with your buddies during the day.

Dawson Henis [00:51:54]:
You can cut out early and just like feel good about life. But the momentum might stall if you don't set the proper guardrails. Because end of the day, this business is a bowler that you have to keep pushing up the mountain. And yeah, go have the lifestyle, take the time off, enjoy yourself, but make sure you keep the main thing, the main thing and keep pushing it.

Benjamin Mena [00:52:14]:
I have a guest that's been hounding me, so this one's for you, Luke. What do your contracts typically look like?

Dawson Henis [00:52:24]:
Good question. Are we talking about pricing guarantees and such?

Benjamin Mena [00:52:26]:
Yeah, a little bit, like whatever you want to share. He's been like one of his things. He just wants to know, like, what other people are doing. And I get this question all the time. So, like, what you want to share on this, like guarantees, percentages and all that stuff?

Dawson Henis [00:52:40]:
Yeah, I think that's a really good question. And starting on the recruiting industry, it can be tough if you don't know those numbers. Like you're looking at Google, you see that you should be charging 15%? No, I should be charging 35%. Like what, what the hell do I do here? Personally, in my space, I find that 25%, 20 to 25% on contingent fees is competitive. I originally would offer two options. I would offer a 20% contingent fee with a 30 day guarantee. The option B was a little more extended. It was a 90 day guarantee with a 25% fee.

Dawson Henis [00:53:12]:
I think the folks who really prioritize the longer guarantee will gravitate to the more expensive one, which is what I preferred. But if it was a client that was more price conscious, they would take the 30 day guarantee. And then also if someone wants to knock you a little bit on the fees, you kind of have leverage like, oh, you don't want to pay 25%. Well, you have this, this other option to fall back onto and I think that's a good way to go about it. The contracting piece, that's been a big learning curve for me. I am shooting for 60% markups on my contracts with six months duration on them. So I'm making it available for my clients to convert folks without a fee after six months. In my space, it's very common to go to temp at hire route.

Dawson Henis [00:53:53]:
So I think it's kind of necessary that I, I have that free buyout clause after six months. And we're aiming for 60%. And then another piece that I'm learning is if you can communicate to your clients the bill rate, try not to speak in market percentage because you go and say, hey, we're charging you 60% on the hour. They're like, damn. But if you just throw a, if you throw like a bill rate at them, they don't necessarily look at it as deep. And it's not in a way to bamboozle them or trick them. It's just that you're showing them this is what it is. Does it meet your budget or not? Vs lend them kind of nitpick at your percentage.

Dawson Henis [00:54:31]:
To be fair, the HR managers who have been around the block, they do the math and they're like, Dawson, this is the fee. Like, let's be real. But yeah, I'm aiming for 60% markups on contracts. And then while I was offering the two options for the perm placements, I've just consolidated it to one offer as of late, 25%, 90 days. We have a lot of business at this point and we want to focus on high level opportunities that we can fill meaningful placement. So we're just offering that 25% for 90 day guarantee now.

Benjamin Mena [00:55:00]:
Do you have a book that's had a huge impact on you.

Dawson Henis [00:55:04]:
Benjamin, I am not built for this question. I'm not a big reader, but I'm a big consumer of podcasts and content. So three podcasts that have had a really big impact on me. Giving you the shout out here, which had to do. Been listening to the lead recruiter for about two years. Like growing the business, not having had a lot of years of experience in it and just needing to get ideas from other people. This podcast has been like instrumental for my growth. And thank you for that.

Dawson Henis [00:55:34]:
Want to give you a moment like I know this whole community. Really appreciate you for that.

Benjamin Mena [00:55:38]:
Thank you all the awesome guests.

Dawson Henis [00:55:41]:
Yeah, Shout Out. Other podcasts have been instrumental for me. The Alex and Layla Horozi, the two of them. I think Alex is really good about creating demand, getting your product out there. Layla is really good at the COOc, like the operations, the people management. Seeing how those two run businesses, it's kind of commoditized. It's really easy to consume, whether you're a big fan of them as people or not. Like they know their shit.

Dawson Henis [00:56:05]:
And I got a lot of good stuff from them. And then for inspiration, the podcast, my first million. I think it's a lot of fun to listen to. You get a lot of really excitable guests who have built something cool, something meaningful, and I've gotten a lot of inspiration from those. And then whenever I find someone that I want to be like as an entrepreneur, I latch onto their content. You consume it for a few months, you start to really understand like their common messages and what they're about. But maybe a goal for me is I should read a book that. And if we talk next time I can have something for you.

Dawson Henis [00:56:36]:
But that's, that's my honest take there.

Benjamin Mena [00:56:39]:
So I'll say I use audible a lot. Like you can listen to books too.

Dawson Henis [00:56:44]:
I'll take that on my runs going forward. Some of those long runs we were talking about just I need to get some good books queued up.

Benjamin Mena [00:56:50]:
I was listening to one of my five mile run today. I was talking about the guy was studying the breakdown of all these elite crazy athletes and I trying to find the common thread in between them. So that was my five mile run today.

Dawson Henis [00:57:05]:
That's cool. To the listeners. Benjamin does not flex this, but he is a sneaky elite runner and you do not want to mess with him in a 5k or a 10k. Just putting that out there.

Benjamin Mena [00:57:17]:
Well, thank you. What's a tech tool that you can't live without.

Dawson Henis [00:57:23]:
For me, going back to the automation and the legion, it's got to be instantly just being able to reach so many people that I want to sell to on a daily basis in an automated sense, that's been a game changer.

Benjamin Mena [00:57:36]:
You know, you recruiting has a lot of ups and downs. No matter how long you've been in the business, like, you get the scars. What is one of the biggest challenges that you've had to walk through?

Dawson Henis [00:57:51]:
That is a good question. Like you mentioned, you. You get the scars and you got to keep moving. I think for me, getting past this idea of perfection and just understanding that communication trumps all. I think if you can communicate to your clients, communicate to your teams, any stakeholders involved, that can really make up for a lot of those bumps and bruises along the way. Because it's really about how you show up in this business day after day, and that's what people are going to remember you by. There's a lot of bumps and bruises. There's a lot of nights that I'm laying there thinking, man, I did that wrong.

Dawson Henis [00:58:25]:
Man, I wish I had another try at that. But I think at this point in my career, and I hope to keep this mindset, I'm sure that you have this. You just want that constant growth and acceptance of. Of those mistakes and failures, knowing that you'll get after it the next time. So I think just really understanding that there's going to be imperfections along the way and being okay with that. I think that's a lesson that I'm still trying to learn and embrace.

Benjamin Mena [00:58:50]:
And normally this question I ask is a lot of times where somebody's talked to a lot of recruiters and recruiters are pounding them with questions, but you've got a BD machine up and running, you've got a system in place and you figure out how to systematize it. You have a team now. You're now adding contract stuff. I know you're probably going to get questions from recruiters and I'm sure a lot of it's going to be like, how? Like what's actually in that? Those emails that actually converts or what's in that LinkedIn message or that voice note that converts them into a client.

Dawson Henis [00:59:24]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:59:25]:
At the end of the day, like, what's a question that you wish somebody would actually ask you, but they probably never do?

Dawson Henis [00:59:31]:
Yeah, good question. Going into the messaging, like you said, like, what hits? What works? I think it's super important to keep a voice that is true and authentic. So a question to ask Me, ask yourself, ask the people you're reaching out to. Is this how I would show up if I was meeting with them face to face? Is this how I would talk to them? I think it's really important that when people are reaching out that they ask them themselves that question. And then, not to be overly philosophical, but getting back to the why, it's really not a question to ask myself. I wish that more people in business and recruitment would ask themselves, what is my why? Like, why am I doing this? And I think if you can really understand that, really dive deep into that, I think that can help you go a really long way

Benjamin Mena [01:00:20]:
in reality. I have two questions left for you. If somebody wants to follow you or connect with you, how do they go about doing that?

Dawson Henis [01:00:27]:
Yeah, LinkedIn, super easy. Dawson Henness, Ennisgroup. That's the social media that I'm on most nowadays. I've been pretty active on socials for, on, on LinkedIn for the last year or so. Been super busy lately. So the postings have slid back a little bit in quantity. But I'm very active on there. If you shoot me a message, I should see it and totally happy to connect with people in this industry.

Dawson Henis [01:00:49]:
If there's anything I can do to help others, always excited to do it. But to be honest, I'll probably be asking them questions, seeing what I can learn from them.

Benjamin Mena [01:00:58]:
Before I let you go, is there anything else that you want to share with the listeners?

Dawson Henis [01:01:03]:
I think this was a really exciting conversation. I just really appreciate your time. I hope I was able to speak to maybe someone out there that's early in their career or maybe someone that's later in their career that's looking for a new take on things, maybe a new purpose. But just gotta say thank you for having me. Benjamin, this has been a total blast. Definitely highlighted the year so far. So it's been a blast.

Benjamin Mena [01:01:25]:
The reason why one of the fun things about the podcast is being able to grab people from different places in their life, different places in their business. And yes, we have the success stories that I just absolutely love. Sometimes if you've been doing it for two decades, you forget those early days, those early pain points, those early days where I was scared, like, hey, can I make this shift? Can I change the entire structure of my business? Is it possible? And that's why I'm excited that you came on to share. You know, got a chance to see your numbers behind the scene, got a chance to see what you're doing. I was like, this is an important conversation for for a listener out there. But most Importantly, this is 2026. I want this to be your year. Go all in, but spend some time.

Benjamin Mena [01:02:19]:
Whether you're on a run, you're at the gym when this episode ends, don't go into the next episode. Don't go into music. If you've not dialed in your why spend the rest of the day thinking about that? Why are you doing this? Why do you want this? Is it your family? Is it freedom? Is it money? Is it a dream that you can't get out of your heart? This is your time to do it. 2026 is yours. You know the resume never tells the full story. Candidates share what really matters during conversations, on calls and interviews, over email, their motivations, salary expectations, plans to relocate. Most of that detail ends up buried in notes and forgotten. Atlas changes that.

Benjamin Mena [01:03:10]:
It's the AI first recruitment platform. Built to eliminate admin. It captures every conversation automatically and turns it into something you can use with MagicSearch. You can ask Atlas questions like who talked about wanting a four day week? Or who mentioned they're open to relocating next year? It searches across your entire database and pulls the answers instantly. No keyword guessing and no digging through old notes. You get insight from real conversations, not limited resume fields. Atlas also makes BD easier with opportunities you can track and grow client relationships powered by generative AI and built into your existing workflow. If you want visibility, smart dashboards give you a clear view of the pipeline across your business.

Benjamin Mena [01:03:49]:
And that's not theory. Atlas customers have reported over 40% EBITDA growth and over 80% increase in monthly billings after adopting the platform. It's built for agencies that want to grow without adding more manual work. Don't miss the future of recruitment. Get started with Atlas today and unlock your exclusive Listener offer@reruitwithatlas.com thanks for listening to this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast with Benjamin Mena. If you enjoyed, hit subscribe and leave a rating.