Inside the Mind of a Million-Dollar Biller: The Blunt Truth of how to Succeed with Rich Rosen

Intro [00:00:00]:
Welcome to the elite recruiter podcast with your host, Benjamin Menna, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership, and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:18]:
Where we get started with this awesome interview, wanna give you guys a few quick announcements. First of all, the book of the month is Atomic Habits, so make sure that you guys are picking that up, Reading it, we already do have a get together at the end of the month to talk about it, to talk about what you learned. So check the show notes for that. Secondly, Most important is the growth summit is ready to go at the beginning of March. All the speakers lined up. It is going to be a game changer For your recruiting career, so definitely check that out. Sign up. It is free, but, yeah, it is gonna be phenomenal.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:53]:
We have Some of the best speakers ready to rock and roll. Alright? Now enjoy this episode. It's gonna rock. I am excited about this returning guest for the Elite Recruiter podcast, Rich Rosen, $1,000,000 biller. Probably one of the most amazing recruiters out there when it comes to not only, like, what he does for His clients and his and the candidates out there that he works with, he's also one of the biggest givers when it comes to recruiting community. And there are so many times you see, like, a top producer in the industry, and they're they're they're so far away you can't touch them. I, for years, have seen Rich Pour his thoughts, wisdom, and heart into other recruiters, helping them succeed. And, you know, personally, Rich has helped me out many, many times, so I am so excited to bring him back on the podcast.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:46]:
So welcome to the podcast, Rich. To see you again. Alright. So, normally, I start the podcast kind of, like, do a walk through, like, how you even got into recruiting. But for the listeners, Go back and listen to episode 20. We already did that. So gonna save save you on that, Rich. But, yeah, for the listeners, go back to episode 20.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:05]:
We are gonna do a deep dive at what it takes to be a top recruiting biller. So Real quick. Looking at your numbers, and Rich shared this, I think, personally, I pulled this away, like, the second I saw this. Last year in 2023, which was a Super interesting year. He had over 9,283 total calls. Over 4,000 of those were outbound. Over 4,000 of those were inbound. Over 466 hours on the phone to over almost 3,000 text messages, almost 8,000 e, emails received, Almost 18,000 emails sent in one of the most brutal years in recruiting.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:45]:
So first of all, how did 2023

Rich Rosen [00:02:48]:
Treat you, Rich. Oh, that's like a baby's diaper. I'm dealing with that to help. Yeah. There you go. There you go. I mean, last year is brutal, man. I mean, Honestly, all those numbers were done pretty much in 9 months too, which just makes it even more crazy because between, you know, losing my dad, Took a lot of vacation time, and, you know, it's just it was a brutal year.

Rich Rosen [00:03:10]:
I mean, honestly, you know, anyone I'm in tech, and and it does I'm in software sales, and Startup tech got crushed last year. It was, you know, 3 steps forward, 2 steps back, you know, then maybe a kick in the head the other way way over. So it was, And lost 4 deals last year, 4 deals between verbal and written. Wow. The executive got fired between the 2 stages.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:33]:
Wait. Four deals are lost between What? From Is he exec

Rich Rosen [00:03:38]:
midnight and 1 o'clock 1 o'clock in the morning, essentially, call it. I mean, it was like a 160 grand in commission. I mean Holy smokes. Gives you the, you know, weigh the year. I mean, it's just, And honestly, I'll give you 1 more. I'm I actually did a favor for a personal friend the end of the year, Which just kinda sums up the whole year. Been on vacation with this guy. We're getting screwed on the commission.

Rich Rosen [00:04:03]:
That's that's 2023 in a nutshell.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:06]:
How's 2024 looking so far?

Rich Rosen [00:04:08]:
Oh, like 2023. Look so good. 2024 will be good. It'll be 8 you gotta be positive. 2024 will be good. Know, we're just getting back in the saddle. We just got a bunch of new jobs in or is it we, but it's me. Just got a bunch of jobs in, and, you know, I think 2024 will Ultimately, be a good year.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:25]:
Okay.

Rich Rosen [00:04:25]:
You know, I do. Yeah. And, also, in this job, you've gotta stick positive. It's so easy To, to get negative, and honestly, it's fun to bitch with other recruiters about, you know, poor story disaster you're right into. But I I think you being in the start up world, you just run into more insanity than any other sector, And whoever thinks placing sales guys is easy is out of their asking mind. Pick especially sales guys within a start up, where you deal with a bunch of people who are relatively clueless and then are fighting for their own job after time. Let alone funding and everything else. And let me real quick.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:04]:
Like, I just ran through some of your activity numbers. Those do those activity numbers look pretty, like, year over year? Is that kinda like what you what you're hitting?

Rich Rosen [00:05:13]:
Was trying to go through those, actually. I couldn't find last year's numbers, but I would get I would guess they're if you would travel it for the full year, I would think they're pretty similar. Okay. The billings were down, you know, way down, but the but the overall output, I'm guessing, Well, if you if you had another quarter on to that, probably would have been about the same.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:33]:
Okay. And so one of the things that I I see with top billers is there's always massive action. Absolutely. Massive consistent action. What does your typical day look like when you're, like, attacking these open positions?

Rich Rosen [00:05:47]:
Yeah. So my you know, I consider my my day start where where I differ than most recruiters, and I've said this on their I think probably earlier on your podcast too, In other shows, they you know, my day starts at night. I'm like, you know, and when then you got a baby, you get to really sort of balance it all out. Thankfully, babies sleep a lot, hopefully. We, Hopefully. We, soon? Little like a little like a little like a little like a bourbon. Bourbon and water both have but the, But, you know, literally, it all comes down to planning, and most recruiters don't plan, and that's the same.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:18]:
Pause. Pause. Pause.

Rich Rosen [00:06:19]:
Okay.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:19]:
So When you say planning, I feel like you've said planning, planning, planning. I feel like your planning is different than most other people planning. When most people are planning, they're, you know, hopping in their Planner and doing that. When you say planning, what do you actually mean?

Rich Rosen [00:06:34]:
So planning for me is, I mean, The literal sense of, hey. Listen. Who am I gonna call tomorrow? It's like, if you work out and, like, I don't know about you. If you go to the gym and you don't have a plane, it's a useless workout for most people. It's like, oh, I'll do a little trial, I'll do a little buy. I'll run the treadmill for 10 minutes, and, you know, you really do nothing. You get yourself busy for an hour. But if you wanna go have a heavy leg day or or bench press or whatever, you're gonna have a heavy chest day or whatever, you know, you gotta have it planned out what's your routine gonna be.

Rich Rosen [00:07:02]:
I at least for me, that's how I work. And recruiting's the same thing. It's like, if I don't have a plan, I am pretty useless. And a plan means to me, You know, say, like, Sunday night, I'm gonna sit there and schedule not scheduled calls hour by hour, but who do I wanna talk to? Who do I wanna reach out to? That means, you know, I'm gonna build a list. They're all gonna get emails automated on the my email campaign, And I'm gonna follow-up the next day with the calls and then text and then email and then call and then, You know, from desperate LinkedIn, but, you know, it's it's the, you know, but it's it's the rinse rinse, wash, repeat. You know, every And, again, it is this nothing in recruiting is black and white, so this isn't, like, 100% of the people bring the list I'm going to call and email every day. There are people that I will call every day because I know they're hiring, know they're you know, I can help them. I know I've got a guy on my desk, I can then PC over there and make the placement in 10 seconds.

Rich Rosen [00:08:02]:
You know, in this, you gotta prioritize who do the who do you call? Who do you follow-up with? Who do you you know, you call once and leave it alone.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:10]:
So real quick, taking a step back. You start your day knowing exactly who you're going to talk to.

Rich Rosen [00:08:18]:
So you exactly. Well no. I I know I go to call. But who to call? Who to call? Yeah. I'm sorry. Who to who to call? So, like, so I use Kralay as my database. So I created, you know, a job every but it's candidates. You know, it doesn't matter if it's BD or or Candidate Outreach.

Rich Rosen [00:08:34]:
If it's Candidate Outreach, I go to job a, And everyone's on a pipeline list. If they've responded from the email I sent the night before, they automatically move to follow-up via Outplay. And I then, excuse me. I then, you know, call the follow-up people first. If there's someone I think that's a must call, you know, I, I put them in a must call category, And, you know, there you go. Down the list. My admin I mean, I got an admin that works a whopping 15 hours a week, and, You know, he is basically in charge of finding the phone numbers and contact info for for these folks. So he puts I'll build, you know, I'll build a list usually.

Rich Rosen [00:09:13]:
You know, 90% of the time, I build the list every so often. Let's build the list and try it out if it's priority target it. And, you know, he gets a list. He goes and finds those people, puts them into the database, which automatically then using Outplay is automatically Vacuumed up into, into Outplay and camping starts.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:33]:
Oh, nice. Just so do you have Outplay, like, hook up with, Create then?

Rich Rosen [00:09:36]:
Oh, L Play built a beautiful integration for me years ago when I got them hooked up. I was, like, it was an AppSumo deal. And, and then Now and they're actually even going to make their their integration better shortly. I just did a call with them a few weeks few weeks ago. But it is hands down the best integration Out there, and I get other companies trying to, you know, get caught up with it too because the bigger boys like Sendouts and, not sendouts, but Interstellar and Woodpecker, their integration stink comparatively. Yep. They do. And yeah.

Rich Rosen [00:10:06]:
Well, that's the thing. And so There's there's another program I like too. I'm I'll tell you this in a second. But, like, I'll play I don't I'm not forced to work in their program, all those other campaign systems. I gotta work on my database or and or their their database, and that's a pain in the ass. Outplay, they built a seamless integration. And if you're a Crelate, PCR, Bullhorn, I think they even do it for now. Tell them I sent you.

Rich Rosen [00:10:30]:
I don't get anything for it, but I just like the company to succeed. Sequoia, even funded of now, just a great it's a great program. The integration is hands down better than anything else in the market. You can do I don't use all the features, but you can do, voice mail drops with it. You can do all sorts of AI with it, you know, writing AI. It's a 1000000 different tools that's Well, it's it's an awesome program, but most importantly, it's a massive time saver. People waste so much. There's there's 2 ways I see key recruiters wasting tons of time.

Rich Rosen [00:10:56]:
1, You know, by working in 2 systems, total waste, or they actually handwrite their notes during conversations And then type them into the computer. If you can't type or you can't use some kind of recorder like MetaView or Track AI or whatever, Find a new job. It's just you can never be productive enough. It's very simple. I see people do this. I'm like, you are you insane? I mean, how much time wasted is he already knows to then write them back into the system.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:25]:
Okay. So you've you come into your day. You know exactly who you're gonna call. The list has been built built out. When people talk about planning, you are actively figuring out who you are going to hit up. And I think I was, like, don't don't go off of this, Rich. It took me about a year and a half, maybe 2 years of me knowing you to figure out what you said is planning is different than what most recruiters know as planning. So, So, like, every time you're like, we'll just play in better.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:49]:
I'm like, oh, wait. Crap. Like, okay. Now I get it. You're, like, targeted to this. People plan, and

Rich Rosen [00:11:56]:
they just They they're really just planning to fail because they're not really planning. They're just saying, I'm gonna do this instead of doing it. It's like, you know, it's like cleaning your email box. It's like, you know, either what is it? Delete it, you know, delete it. I forgot the 3 d's or something like deleted, deliver it, or Or delegate. Delegate. There you go. You know? I mean, that that's it.

Rich Rosen [00:12:17]:
And that's the same thing. It's otherwise, you get buried in email. You open it, Here's something with it. You know? Otherwise, you're just gonna keep going back to it. And where is that gonna get you? So

Benjamin Mena [00:12:26]:
So you've been doing this year after year. You're probably one of the hardest working people that I've met. Now I love that you just shared the secret that you're also now one of the smartest pea working people I've met with all your technology, because, oh my god, like, going for because I use create I I use Woodpecker, and I go from point a to point b.

Rich Rosen [00:12:44]:
Go to output. Yeah. They'll actually send you.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:47]:
Actually have their LTDs, so I'm gonna, like, jump into that. So but when it comes to even with how, excuse my language, shitty 2023 2023 was in the startup tech sector. How did you stay driven all this time?

Rich Rosen [00:13:02]:
You know, it's a great question. I think it's just it's it's kind of just routine. You know? Like, I'm there's there's certain things I'm a creature of happiness. I go to the gym every morning. If I'm bored, I'll go back to the gym in the afternoon. If if I and just during the day, you just work. Like, I don't know what to do during the day. I I when I train and talk to other recruiters, I don't understand what they do during the day.

Rich Rosen [00:13:30]:
Like, I'll go to an like, every I used to go to an office every once in a while to to go help some of my buddies of mine at a firm, And I would sit there and do my work, and I've they would be like, dude, you're like the loudest person in our office. And I'm like, why is no one else making noise? I'm like, Everyone else is too busy sending emails, telling me cold calling doesn't work. You know? Yeah. I'm the one that's closing all the deals, Cold calling, answering email, and sending texts. Like, you can't just rely on one method. They all suck, quite frankly, but they're all effective if done in a in a pattern. And I think, you know, you just saw I like, now if I don't get on the phone, I feel like my day is an utter waste. So I need to be moving.

Rich Rosen [00:14:18]:
You know? It's just like I I just it's constant motions, totally ADD driven motion. And I think that's really the secret is just your plan. You know, you want you what you wanna hit. You got certain goals you wanna hit. I mean, we're building a house. We got we got 2 kids in college suit shortly. It doesn't matter what you make. When you kid kids get to go to college, you'll see that money gets sucked up pretty damn quick.

Rich Rosen [00:14:43]:
You know, so you should start saving now, and you should start putting your kid on your, your You're pay well so you can start funding his 401 his retirement plan already. Hold another conversation for after. But the, okay.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:54]:
I already have a A investment account set up for him. So

Rich Rosen [00:14:57]:
Perfect. You well, it will hopefully be enough to cover a month of college because it's gonna be insane by the time your kid's there. It was bananas now. But, so keep going. But it's, I think it's just it's just the it's just this is what our job is. So it's like Like, to me, I think there are a lot of crews that take these jobs as a part time. They don't do it as a full time job, but they don't see the career. They don't even see the big money you can really, really, really make.

Rich Rosen [00:15:22]:
And I just think it's a game. This whole job is a total game. For me, I'm competitive. I hate to lose. I literally just had an internal recruiter ask me because I was yelling at her about, my candidate's not they've got to a final, and they didn't get the job. And I'm like, what the hell happened? Been asking feedback the whole time. Everything is great. And she's like, Rich, do you she literally took this effect.

Rich Rosen [00:15:45]:
She's like, do you actually expect to win every deal? And so, like yeah. That's kinda why we do this. You know? And I do it every deal. I don't lose that often. And, you know, I send good people. I expect good companies to hire my good people. So it's it's it's a lot of that. It's just it's drive.

Rich Rosen [00:16:04]:
It's just You wanna make money. You wanna win. You gotta you got goals. You got a baby now. You got, you know, extra mouths to feed it. You got pressure. You know? And as they grow older, man, life doesn't get cheaper. So I don't understand.

Rich Rosen [00:16:18]:
Like, I talk to guys in California all the time. They make, like, $100, and they take a year off. And I'm like, $100? Not a lot of money in today's world. Sorry. You know, even Obama thought you needed you know, was nuts with this 250 was rich. You know? So I'm trying to live in New York City with 250. You know? So I don't know. You you got you just it's still we're hiring for me.

Rich Rosen [00:16:40]:
We're we're sales guys. It's all about the drive and the hunger.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:44]:
When you say, like, a lot of recruiters are really missing out on the big money, like, is it because they've never seen the big money? Is it because they've never been around the big money? Like, what what do you think that is?

Rich Rosen [00:16:54]:
I think most people, it's because they've not they they haven't been around it, and they don't really realize that they're very self limiting, Where they work on low end deals. They're happy with you know, we you're always sure about the recruiters taking a 10 or 15% fee, which if you do, you should be shot. The, It's a horrible way to run your business as a bottom feeder, so don't do it. So you you'll get more respect when you charge higher fees, number 1. But, you know, I think a lot of people, you know, they live check to check stuff. They get desperate, and and just They they see a $10,000 check come in, and they're like, oh my god. And it's great when you're, you know, 22. But if you've got mortgage, baby, car payments, you know, you wanna go on nice vacations, whenever, You know, all that stuff's expensive, man.

Rich Rosen [00:17:43]:
You wanna pay for solids?

Benjamin Mena [00:17:45]:
So, like, a recruiter that wants to change that mindset and change that drive, like, What what what do they need to do? Like, how do they you change that?

Rich Rosen [00:17:52]:
One, I think the easiest way to change your mindset is is have you ever heard of the rule of 5? You you know, it's I think that goes for everything, intelligence, salary, income, life experience. Like, again, I know, Like, if people don't know what it is, you your your your income is the average of the 5 people you hang around the most. Your intelligence is generally people you hang around with, 5 people you hang around the most. You're the you're the average of that 5, and you can do it for almost anything. But I know once I had gone to the pinnacle pinnacle society, my billing went way up, and most peoples do that go and get into Pinnacle because you're surrounded by top recruiters. You don't wanna for those

Benjamin Mena [00:18:32]:
For those that don't know what Pinnacle is, which there's a lot of people out there, what is Pinnacle Society?

Rich Rosen [00:18:37]:
So Pinnacle Society, I'm not sure on the board, currently on the board, actually, Pinnacle. Pinnacle is honestly the most amazing group I've been a part. It is a group of big billers. I think I think now it's you gotta bill, like, a half a 1000000 or 600,000 for 3 of the past 5 years, And you gotta have at least 5 years of experience in recruiting. So you you know, you're in the top 1% billers. You know, you're a giver. Everyone in that group generally wants to help other recruiters become better recruiters and better the industry. So you get you you you get a it's I play sales guys, so I have an extra fondness for it because, you know, we're all sales guys whether those who are listening whether admit that or not.

Rich Rosen [00:19:19]:
We're all salespeople, not social workers. And but you could be a salesperson with a heart. And the Pinnacle Society, it is not only great billers, but they're great givers. They Always, they're super supportive of everyone. It's it's almost like a fraternity in many respects because you go to these conferences twice a year, And these people are friends. You go to their their weddings, their bar mitzvahs, their you know, you know, more about their life than their spouse sometimes does. You become Super close to these folks. And if you're down, you had a bad month, you know, you got someone that that can call and pick you up and vice versa.

Rich Rosen [00:19:54]:
You know? It just If you're a trader, it should be everyone's goal to get into the pinnacle society. Not only is the training fantastic, The camaraderie is amazing, and you're surrounded with top billers, which is only gonna drive your billing. I think last year, I don't know about 23. I know 22. I think there were, like, 36 people get over $1,000,000 shit like that. I I mean, out of 80 people in the group at any given time, it's limited to 80, but It's just the best of the best. And, I mean, tons of people did close to I mean, 1 guy did, you know, over 2,000,000. It just It's just an amazing amazing it's an amazing group of people that anyway, it's where you should you should strive to be there.

Rich Rosen [00:20:36]:
It's a lot of fun. It's a lot of learning, and it just will make you even better than you already are by the time you get there.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:43]:
Okay. So let's just say, like, you Crush 600 k last year or your goal is to get to 600 k. Mhmm. You wanna get around those top billers. And it I know Pinnacle has this, like, high levels, like, It's hard to get in a pinnacle. Like, what what do you do to on your way to get around those kind of people?

Rich Rosen [00:21:00]:
You try to seek them out of conferences. A lot of us are at, like, naps and Things like that, number 1. You know, friend them on Facebook. If if they're you know, you see, like, you know, Jeremy Sizemore is a big one. He's on Facebook a ton. Jeremy's awesome. Who is it? But, you know, Catherine, she she just she's actually in your space. She just says, defending.

Rich Rosen [00:21:18]:
So people like that, they're just they're They they wanna help other recruiters. They wanna be part of this industry and be more than just, you know, a biller. I mean, that's great, but it's fun to help. You know, it's fun to see people grow and, you know, I love when I get calls. You know? I'm saying, hey. Listen. You gave me this advice, and I go you know, Close the $200,000 deal or whatever. I mean, it's it's a great feeling.

Rich Rosen [00:21:41]:
Like, I'm not a great teacher, I don't think, but I like to Help break a hill. And it's it's fun to see people, you know, actually say, oh, they tried it. It worked, And they're better for it. But I think you just you you you wanna seek out good people, whether it's just either via email. You don't wanna drive them crazy, start calling off of these good receivers and pinnacles, so don't do that. But they're gonna get back down the emails, and it's got a question or something or whatever. Should've been on Facebook or whatever. They'll they they they wanna get back to you.

Rich Rosen [00:22:09]:
They want everyone wants to see everyone Do better in that group, and that's one of the things that makes it worthwhile. But wherever you live, like you said, you're near Scott Love now, a great recruiter. Brad, did go grab a coffee? You know? I mean, it's like, that's the thing. Fine. You know? Find the people in your area.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:24]:
Like, you know what? Lie, I absolutely love grabbing you. Like, It gossiped wine with him and just kind of picking his brain. The guy knows so much.

Rich Rosen [00:22:31]:
Oh my god. He's awesome. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean but that's cool, but it's and then you're Mark, do it. You take advantage of the resources that that and the the opportunities you're given. It was fine. I was on a I was on vacation in, Australia over the summer, And we just randomly got sat at table, like, under the stars in middle of the Outback Desert in Australia, in Uluru, Big giant rock out out there.

Rich Rosen [00:22:53]:
And, who sits next to us is the founder founding managing partner of Silicon Valley Bank And his buddy, who is another tech tech VC startup, which is like, that's fucking awesome. We ended up addressing them the next few nights and and, you know, got some business out of them from that. I mean but, you know, you take what you can get. Right? It's, you know, you got Scott there. I I got the founder of this this Check FedEx VC billionaires. I'm like, what? You you you life happens for a reason. Right? So Absolutely. Absolutely.

Rich Rosen [00:23:25]:
And even, you know what? It listen. The best way to get better This get better. Learn, take classes, take training, seek out people that are better than you that you can learn from. It's not it's not not not too hard. People just don't

Benjamin Mena [00:23:37]:
I know there's a lot of recruiters that are afraid to hire a coach. I know you have hired multiple coaches. Mhmm. How's that impact been?

Rich Rosen [00:23:44]:
It's been great. I mean, it's it's I do a lot of work, like, I work done a lot of podcasts with a lot of coaches, but I've done coaching with, like, is more essential. I do stuff with with Mark Whitby. I took Dave's Dave's course before. I think you can learn from everyone, and that's the thing that makes, I think, Great recruiters and or great anyone in any field, better is they're always opening to learning and getting better. Once you think you know it, though, You're done, especially in recruiting. I mean, honestly, I've been doing this for 28 years. I'm still trying to figure out how to write that perfect email, leave that perfect voice mail.

Rich Rosen [00:24:18]:
You know, half the time, it sounds like shit, but you know what? It gets some kind of response because it's authentic. If you read my emails, you would laugh and be like, there's no fucking way this guy sent this stuff out. Like Tristan could laugh and and Mark both laugh at me every every pinnacle meeting when they are speaking that they make fun of my writing. So thank god for. But but you know what? All my dumb errors, they all work and they look real. So which they some of them might ton. So you don't have to kill yourself with perfection.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:46]:
So you would recommend high hiring a coach?

Rich Rosen [00:24:48]:
100%. Listen. I mean, if you're stuck in an area, Why not? I mean, you're gonna like, you you think about how much did you invest in wine, in learning wine, drinking wine. You're gonna put me in the $25,000. Maybe more. Not shit.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:06]:
Like, we we actually have wine Storage, like a wine storage facility in DC, so don't even go down there.

Rich Rosen [00:25:12]:
That's a that's a hard phone.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:14]:
It it has its own insurance policy.

Rich Rosen [00:25:16]:
Oh my god. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's awesome, though. It's oh, listen. Anyone that's got hobbies is good, though. You need any any kind of hobby. And I used to have a cousin.

Rich Rosen [00:25:24]:
I think I told you, you used to have a wine you used to have a wine shop in, Alexandria. But the but listen. I mean, coaching 100%, you gotta get better. And for what it costs, it's really not that much In the grand scheme of things. It's expensive today, but the return if you follow the steps, and it's the and it's the right trainer for you. Like Danny Cahill and, Whitby and Trish, they're all great. You know? There's there's several trainers I think are good, and then I think there's A lot that aren't, but you gotta find the right one for you. It definitely should not be the cheapest one, not because they're cheap.

Rich Rosen [00:26:00]:
I mean, they could be great and cheap, but don't Base it on the cost, and I get nothing. Like, 10 I'll be I'll be very clear if I'm getting paid for something. I'm not getting anything bad with these guys other than, you know, little access here and there. But the I just yeah. They're they're good. Depending on what you need, they'll have they have a different style. And what works for me may not work for Ben or whatever else. So, you're gonna find what works for you, and it's totally worthwhile, and you should never be especially for solo like I am, you never should be Status quo wouldn't

Benjamin Mena [00:26:29]:
the only reason why I wanna bring that up is because so often, like, we you know, you think about this $1,000,000 biller, like, on this pinnacle, like, so far away, Like, this guy must be doing everything right. This guy must know every single thing.

Rich Rosen [00:26:41]:
Not even

Benjamin Mena [00:26:41]:
Rich, you know everything. Right? You must know, like, everything. Be my wife. Go on. But I've I've seen you time after time, like, in these, like, Like, you know, in these groups and in these conversations where, you know, I'm not commenting. I'm just kinda just, like, hanging out, and you're just like, Go talk to this person. Go talk to this person. This person helped helped me.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:02]:
Yeah. This person helped me do this. So

Rich Rosen [00:27:05]:
Yeah. No. I mean, I think it's it's good, everyone. I mean, listen. You got if you wanna make a lot of money, lose the ego. I mean, like, thinking you're the coolest kid in school and made the most money is not gonna make you the most money. I I don't need to be the smartest. Probably shouldn't be the smartest in any room, and I shouldn't be the richest in any room.

Rich Rosen [00:27:23]:
So, you know, it it's I don't to me, it does I don't care where I learn from as low as I learn. And then it goes back to Pinnacle why it's such a great resource. And even I'm gonna tell you, probably, I bet you half the people in Pinnacle are in some kind of coaching group. So, I mean, plenty of $1,000,000 bills are in coaching groups. That's good to know. Yeah. I mean, it's it's not everyone acts like it's a you know, it's it's like an like, it's an embarrassment. Like, you didn't know no.

Rich Rosen [00:27:49]:
It's actually a badge of honor to be like, hey. Listen. I learned. I don't who cares? Happy to share the wealth and put my spin on it. So yes. Which is funny though is, like, because I see some some trainers take some of the stuff that I've posted, and then they go and try to teach that. Like, dude, you didn't come up with that. I'm like, I that's hilarious.

Rich Rosen [00:28:08]:
It was very fun.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:09]:
So when it comes to you being a top pillar, And I get this question a lot, like, when it comes to, like, doing interviews with people like yourself. What is your BD process even look like?

Rich Rosen [00:28:19]:
Right now, it's a little messy. I'm gonna be honest with you. It's, but when I when I'm in full flow, like, I I'm which I will. I am as of tomorrow. You know, a lot of it is the first thing I'll do is go through all my old clients. Old I just worked on BP searches. I'll go through all the old candidates that I I made connections with and I had presented, and they know that I'm a good recruiter, a good just an easy call. Right? Yeah.

Rich Rosen [00:28:43]:
They play it in some place potentially. And, 1, if you're not doing it, you should make sure you click the little bell on every person you wanna follow on LinkedIn, Like every hiring manager and or, sadly, the Google alert. So if that person changes their LinkedIn page, you're, you're notified. And then you could see, oh, this guy just took took a job. And if he posted it, he probably took the job, like, a month ago anyway by the time they do it or who cares? You get there early. It's time to be. That's the easiest way to do b s BD is go after people you know, but then just like I do with the candidates, here's my list of clients I wanna go after. Here's some net new companies in x, y, z space.

Rich Rosen [00:29:21]:
I'll give the list to give the list to my admins and go find the VP of sales, the CRO, the head of presales, whatever roles I'm doing. If they're not there, find the COO and CEO, Put them on the list, and they automatically get automatically get those emails. And it's the same process as the candidate side. Again, I think people overcomplicate both sides of it. Maybe I simplify it too much. I don't know.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:41]:
But has and this is probably the 1st time I've I've seen you talk a little more about outsourcing We're having some help. Has having helped helped you?

Rich Rosen [00:29:50]:
Actually. No. It's an issue. It's, Mark Mark Winty will tell me because

Benjamin Mena [00:29:55]:
he's dying to get me. He's dying for

Rich Rosen [00:29:56]:
me to try more VAs, and I I will actually try more VAs. Sorry. No. My The I am horrible at using virtual assistance. I mean, she stood everything myself, so I am probably the cause of the reason why he is not helpful. I I've learned a lot. I'm actually in the middle of taking Mark's VA course, speaking of coaching, and I had to use a VA. So I will It's one of my many bucket list things to do this year is to get proper properly use a VA.

Rich Rosen [00:30:27]:
But, like, for me, And I I don't really understand how other recruiters do it because I like to be so hands on Where I like to do the prep calls, I like to follow-up after interviews. I like to, you know, schedule them myself. I like to all those little touch points make a monster difference In the process and in the ability to con with the candidate. So I'm very rarely surprised, You know, if a candidate turns a job down or is going to different direction. You know, by the end of most of my processes and part of my BD, You get these guys in process. They tell me where other you know, you ask where else they're interviewing, and, you know, a lot of guys aren't gonna tell you if you're just a voice in the phone at the beginning of the process and the end of the process. But if I pulled their hand throughout the process, well, you know, now I know. And then I call so you know, make sure they know.

Rich Rosen [00:31:19]:
I'm like, listen. If you're not gonna take my job, let me know where else you're looking because I don't know why you're gonna end up with some dumpster fire that I can't hire for you you're at. Right? Especially if it's a VP role. And, You know, you built goodwill. You're honest with them about feedback. I'll tell them if I know anything or I don't know anything. And but if it's a dumpster fire, I will Kindly ask if they want my real opinion. And most of them do, and then most of them don't take the job, you know, because we built A lot of trust, and I don't know how to explain how to do I don't know how to explain.

Rich Rosen [00:31:50]:
I've had this question a 1000000 times, like, how to explain, how to build that trust with people. I all I know is I come across very authentic, which I should because I am very authentic, and No one ever questions the integrity, so except internal recruiters. But, but thanks. That's all I wanted because they it it was so funny because it's a side note, but it was they they think you do you want answers? You want the negative feedback? So you can and why you got this negative feedback? I found this with internals. Because they think you just wanna coach your candidates up. I'm like, to a point, but you want it so you know not to send the wrong people and how what's gonna fit. It's the coaching is, you know, part of it, but you should never overcoach your candidate, in my opinion, anyway. But that's a whole side sidebar.

Rich Rosen [00:32:34]:
But, K. But that's it's all part of the BD. That's part of the process. Yep.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:39]:
I mean and, like, digging a little deeper into this BD thing, Do you do a lot of just, like, cold call for new business, MPC? Like, what is it how are you getting this business?

Rich Rosen [00:32:49]:
Every way. Lot of referrals, of networking. Like I said, we start through, you know, the context we know. Just like I do with candidates, I put them on a drip campaign, so they're gonna get, you know, you know, basically, about a 100 emails a day. We'll go out for BD, 100 emails a day. We'll go out for for, for, candidates you know, candidate emails. And this year, which we should talk about is the whole Gmail change that's coming as well, which is gonna be scary, and will change, and people will start doing a lot more cold calling is my guess soon. But we'll talk about that in a sec.

Rich Rosen [00:33:20]:
Do you think

Benjamin Mena [00:33:21]:
do you think more recruiters are actually gonna pick up the phone and call call?

Rich Rosen [00:33:23]:
More business for me. So I can hope they don't, but it's It's gonna get scary, but but I'll go finish the BD's part. But, anyway, once I get I get I do everything the same. Candidate sides, the candidate side, the client side, it's not that much different a call even. It's like, hey. You look at the opportunity. Hey. Open to a candidate.

Rich Rosen [00:33:39]:
You don't have to do this whole crazy sales pitch. It's you can be very blunt and basic. People are either But, you know, they don't need. I'm not a big fan of, like, doing this hard press, hard colds, hard sell. It just it's I don't it's necessary, but I My emails and my e my phone calls are twofold. I don't sometimes I just call and say, listen. I've been doing this for 28 years and placed, you know, almost 1100 people, and Gabe, we haven't talked before, but we know a 1,000 literally who have, like, they will have 500 mutual contacts. And then then also do an MPC where, hey.

Rich Rosen [00:34:11]:
I've got the and I Prefer it, BC, to be honest with you, where you've got, hey. I've got this great account exec or a great sales engineer who's done x, y, and z. What I still struggle with, to be honest with you, is I think personalization is great, but it's just so hard to do at scale because I work if you're in one Niche, it's easy. I'm in all of software too broad. I would never start this way again. I've never recommend anyone do it this way. But I cover everything in software from Fintech to, you know, analytics to security to storage, whatever. I I just have a huge network, so it's hard not to anymore.

Rich Rosen [00:34:46]:
But it means I can't do a super personalized message where I can say, hey. This is a great analytics, great AI, you know, candidate Because then I gotta segment my my list, and I've tried it that way, and it's just it's it's very difficult. Yeah. It just takes a lot of time.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:00]:
I know we have a lot of, like, questions, that we're gonna be doing, like, after the podcast is done. It's kinda like a bonus section, but I. This question did stand out. If you had to actually start over again from 0, what would you do?

Rich Rosen [00:35:15]:
I would literally pick a geo. Like, Dave Snarenfeldt, who's awesome, and he's fighting, this, like, 3rd battle of cancer right now. He's a great recruiter. In Pinnacle, he's he's just awesome. David's the best. He covered he was the man. On the West Coast, if you wanted a software sales job, Everyone knew data. Everyone.

Rich Rosen [00:35:34]:
And that's how I would have done it. Like, I if I was to start over, I would do everything East Coast.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:41]:
You know? Just East Coast.

Rich Rosen [00:35:42]:
Probably just East Coast just because that's where I am. It's easier. There's enough business. Maybe I do central and east. It's easy enough because the time zones. Mountain and west get get a little funky. But if I had to do it over, I would pick a geo. And software's broad, and so I would probably pick Analytics or automation or AI, whatever industry that I thought were hot or interesting at the time.

Rich Rosen [00:36:04]:
But I think being Too broad like I am is can be a detriment, and being too broad across the country can also be a detriment. You know, but it everything's got its pros and cons.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:16]:
So real quick, you you think that you're too broad

Rich Rosen [00:36:19]:
Mhmm.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:19]:
Even though your focus is, like, software salespeople?

Rich Rosen [00:36:22]:
I think my industry is too broad. Like, I like like, a lot of recruiters I know that do really well. Like, Dave is a great example. Just stick with Dave. He is just West Coast, like, 99%, like, database analytics kind of stuff, you know, in that general Genre. Like, I literally placed the guys in Fintech software last year, security software last year, risk software last year, Analytics, AI, RPA, all press work. The good thing is for sales guys, you can be you can go cross vertical Fairly easily. But if I had to start over knowing what I now knew and I just focus, say, just security or just analytics.

Rich Rosen [00:37:06]:
And now instead of having a database of hundreds of thousands of people in all walks of life, I have now 100,000 people just in the East Coast, Just in analytics per se. Think how much more powerful it is. Henley pro athletes can play truly play multiple pro sports. They focused on one Aside from a handful of folks, they're not making the majors in every league. Right? So Mhmm. It's I just think it's The more laser focus you're in this business, the better to an extent. The you gotta have multiple roles you wanna fill, Okay. Yeah.

Rich Rosen [00:37:39]:
I'll get to this $1,000,000 bills in Pinnacle that they literally focus on 2 positions. There's and it's very niche in health care. Okay. And they crush it. Absolutely crush it. So

Benjamin Mena [00:37:49]:
I know, we recently interviewed Michael Petrick, and he was just like, yeah. I I have this little box and this little box, I know everything that goes on. Yeah. I know every single person, so I beat everybody, and

Rich Rosen [00:38:00]:
I'm like, good job on that.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:02]:
I didn't even think about that.

Rich Rosen [00:38:03]:
Mike's a great example. He's a great he's a great example. That's it. I mean, everyone tries to boil the ocean. I was talking to someone else. They're like, You really wanna get into, like, your health care, but you have to work in construction jobs. And I'm like and the guy's starting a podcast For health care, yet he's working construction jobs. And I'm like, well, what what are you doing? Like, it's like, what am I what am I missing? I mean, like, It just you you gotta pick a lane, and it's gonna hurt it first.

Rich Rosen [00:38:31]:
But once you do it, you're gonna be better off for it.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:35]:
Awesome. Oh, another question I have for you, like, how do you measure your output? In

Rich Rosen [00:38:40]:
in terms of what?

Benjamin Mena [00:38:42]:
I can guarantee you most recruiters don't know exactly how many calls they made, many emails they sent, how many text messages they sent, how do you consistently measure your KPIs on a daily basis?

Rich Rosen [00:38:53]:
So Greenlight's got a good reporting tool, number 1. And if you don't know how to use it, they will happily help you, because it is a little confusing. And RingCentral, You know, honestly, I just call they didn't want they wanted pay me they wanted wanted me to pay for the analytic component. I was like, that's great. I'm gonna send it for another 2 year license. Gotta give it to me for free. So they did. So that was it.

Rich Rosen [00:39:11]:
It was easy. It was it was easy. Nothing for men to throw in, but it was small win. So

Benjamin Mena [00:39:17]:
Okay. So at the end of the day, you're just hopping in at RingCentral and just, Tracking what what you did.

Rich Rosen [00:39:21]:
Yeah. It's telling you everything well, everything's recorded. Right? I mean, so they record every call, every number, inbound, outbound, etcetera. And then, you know, ring if you've got it set up in ring in prelate as well, it's gonna record all the inbound, outbounds so you can kinda, you know, compare and contrast. But you can also check all your emails and text and everything else. Yeah. But that's I mean, it's the easy way to do it.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:44]:
Okay. Didn't know if there's, like, a whole other thing, like Excel spreadsheet where you're tracking everything or Notion this, Notion that.

Rich Rosen [00:39:51]:
You know, I mean, honestly, it's like, I used to just do, Like, if I'm I just like, if I'm just not focused on a certain day or I feel myself I'm just kinda not there, I just take a pen and paper out I just say make tick marks every time they make a call, put a, you know, a dot or a line or whatever through it. If I connect with someone And they do it hour by hour, and you can just you do that for a few days, you're gonna see just right in front of you, 1, how many calls you're making? 2, Where's your productive time? Where is your tired time? Like, I know for me, 3 o'clock, I'm usually like, I need a snack. I'm getting lazy, tired, whatever. So I block it into my calendar now, and that's when I go through emails or return, you know, return voice mails or whatever. So it it it's just so it keeps you focused. So Other otherwise, during the day, you're just going back and forth for email, crelate, email, crelate, and you're just you're unproductive. It cracks me up because I was I was running a BD class for for Mark, and There would be guys in the class that are like, alright. I'm gonna make 50 BD calls this week.

Rich Rosen [00:40:47]:
It's, like, 10 a day. I'm like, Unless you get through all 10, I'm like, what are you doing? I'm like, oh, they're gonna make 60 calls in total for the week in BDN Outreach. Maybe I'm not old school. That's I'm like, I don't know what you do all day then. Like, if you're not on the phone during prime calling hours, Explain to me what you're doing with your day, because I don't really understand.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:11]:
And I think I think that's, like, kinda like what you're talking about where And that's where I what kinda what dug into the planning question a little bit because I think that one of the things recruiters do during the day is they're trying to figure out, spend the most of the day figuring out who they need to reach out When you and quite a few other people I've talked to on the podcast, like, start the day knowing exactly who you're going to, I try to get a hold of them. Yeah.

Rich Rosen [00:41:36]:
I mean and I think you're I think you're I mean, I think most recruiters are total what was it? A net paralysis by analysis kind of thing. And, let me do it during the day. This is like they they literally look at their job. I've talked to recruits. They literally look at, well, it's 5 o'clock. I'm off. I'm like, no, dude. You work for yourself.

Rich Rosen [00:41:51]:
Or even if you're working for someone else, your your main goal is commission. You are still working for yourself. So whether you're technically your own boss or your own boss, This should be a commission driven business. And then if you are not thinking like, you know, You are surely wasting your time, and hopefully, you survive 2023 because most I know Got a tough year. Defense was great. Insurance is So there's a few industries that crushed it, but some were not as lucky finally. So

Benjamin Mena [00:42:24]:
Hey, Will. Rich, before we move on to the next part of the podcast, is there anything that you wanna say about being a top pillar?

Rich Rosen [00:42:31]:
No. I mean, it's fun. You should try it. No. It's get it's it's a, No. It's listen. It's it is listen. It is not about I don't do anything different than anyone else.

Rich Rosen [00:42:40]:
I can guarantee you I don't do things nearly as well As many, many other people I know, I just do more of it, and I don't mind the grunt work. You're Depending on what your goal is. My goal is to just be financially free and not have to worry about anything. And that's what the beauty of recruiting is because recruiting is Absolute life changing position if you put the time in it because there is very few businesses that truly give you what you put into it. And you don't have to be the smartest. Don't have to be the the the slickest. In this job, you really just have to be the most authentic. They put the most effort, And that's really it.

Rich Rosen [00:43:20]:
It does not it's it's truly planning an effort and maybe you give up, you know, going to beers on a Tuesday night To plan for the week or whatever. To me, it's a small price to pay, especially, you know, as you get a little older, you got kids and other responsibilities. So you wanna be there for the you wanna have be able As the kids get old, you wanna be there for the, you know, their games and their sports, so they know the stuff. So make the sacrifice now so you can take the time later. So Awesome. But that's it. That's it. That's it.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:46]:
Well, move moving over the quick fire questions. Brand new recruiter that's just getting started off in the recruiting industry, what advice would you give them to succeed?

Rich Rosen [00:43:54]:
I think, like, a lot of what we just said. I mean, you say, you get a niche, you get focused, you find an industry that you are personally excited about. What's an industry that you wanna read up on? If you're gonna get bored Reading about defense technology or you're some crazy pacifist and believe certain people are right and run, Man, maybe you don't do that industry even if your boss tells you, do that industry. Yeah. Do what you are excited about. I mean, it's the simplest way to do it. Work with passion.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:20]:
And you're excited you're constantly excited about software sales?

Rich Rosen [00:44:23]:
Yeah. I think it's great. I mean, it's always changing. It's always something new. I mean, It's and the the good and bad about being in multiple sectors in software is you can could you go where where it can put. Like, look at ChatCPT and AI and all these companies. It's it's I mean, I think it's fascinating. My wife would find the boringest Simple.

Rich Rosen [00:44:43]:
It's so you gotta figure out what's what's good for you.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:46]:
Right? And the next question, like, what advice would you give to recruiters that have been in the space? I think you did a great Job, this entire podcast answering that question, so we're gonna skip that. What's been a favorite book that's had an impact to your career?

Rich Rosen [00:45:01]:
I am not a big reader, believe it or not. I'm a I've got serious ADD, which should probably be medicated at this point, but, Hi. I'm a big guy. I listen to podcasts like It's like, what the hell is it? Sellers. It's like Sellers Heaven or something like that. There's 30 minutes to president's club is a good one. Book wise, the last book I read that I loved was really to work was Chris Voss, Never Split the Difference. Because I thought it was great.

Rich Rosen [00:45:25]:
So many good lessons in that. But I think a lot of it too just I just you know, again, it goes back to having passion for the space. There's a 1000000 article 1000000 newsletters for every Industry should find ones that you like, and they've got Simonet news on your industry. Read that, you know, every morning. And, you know, not only does it give you clients and candidates to go after, but gives you insights. You can actually talk like you know what's going on.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:48]:
Do you ever listen to audiobooks? Have you tried those out?

Rich Rosen [00:45:51]:
Well, once in a great while, but now Okay. First, if we're going if we're going on a long drive, we're listening to our Smartlist or something. It's a great bug.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:57]:
Okay. What is your favorite RecTech tool at the moment?

Rich Rosen [00:46:01]:
RecTech tool. I mean, this is the thing. I think there's so many interesting tools, but I think there's so many Closure's out there. It used to be like used to be a lot of LinkedIn tools that just basically made lists for LinkedIn for you, but didn't really do anything for you. Now there's a 1,000,000 AI tools that don't really do a lot for you other than what chat c p chat CPT can do. They claim it's better, claim it's this, claim it's that. I haven't seen one that's really markedly better personally. I think, like, I mean, like, you gotta have a good a good system, like an outplay, like, for campaign management.

Rich Rosen [00:46:38]:
That's probably the best. I mean but like I was saying, really, with this Gmail, and there's another company I've been looking at called SendNow, which also I think their appsumo deal ends today, actually. But SendNow is I was talking to the owner the other day. Really cool software, really good it's supposed to have amazing deliverability. You can even buy your own IP address through them. If you go to their Facebook group, they've got a whole cold call, cold email campaign book, like an 80 page guy on how to do it in YouTube videos and how to even interact input into play. But What he's doing is interesting. He's pretty much on the cutting edge of things.

Rich Rosen [00:47:10]:
He this he was the original guy, like, Reply. Io and stuff. Mhmm. And So he was another guy. He was the 2nd person to talk to me about Gmail issues, like we were saying earlier. Like, Yahoo and Gmail are going to start blocking A lot of email, not just the big spammers. Like, we all read, like, the 5,000 emails a day. No.

Rich Rosen [00:47:30]:
Apparently, it's gonna they're gonna start doing that for A lot of people, not just the massive spammers, but if you get too many bounced emails, too many blacklists, too many ignore, too many take me off the list, Gmail is gonna start blocking you very quickly, Per. And so, like, his platform is gonna be great for BD, But it will not allow you to send to a Gmail address. That's so serious. Oh. Yeah. That's so serious this whole thing's a bit.

Benjamin Mena [00:47:56]:
I saw a note in the comments. I actually bought that. I I'm sorry for the listeners when this goes live. I looked at it right now, and it's at 22 hours left, and this Episode gonna be out in a few weeks, so I do apologize. But if I saw that, I was just like, what the hell is going on? I almost, like, returned it because I, like, I didn't know that was, Like, the reason why, but now that makes sense.

Rich Rosen [00:48:15]:
Yeah. So, listen, it's $60. You might as well try it out. The owner's a great guy, you know, but and their product is really good. It does a lot of cool things, and they've got a Great road map coming out. So I think that one's gonna be super interesting. Listen. I hope he's wrong.

Rich Rosen [00:48:29]:
Something in my gut tells me he's probably not. So he's I don't know. Better get used to cold calling again because matter just double up on your LinkedIn credits Because that's gonna be super interesting if that really comes to fruition. But that and the other one I like right now that I'm playing with, and and, again, I I'm just getting my hands around it. It's Nebula. So as far as Nebula goes, Nebula is an amazing tool right now they've been testing out That is great for sourcing. Really, you know, truly, you know, additive in terms of how it can find people, And then not only find people that I wasn't able to find on LinkedIn, able to they create using AI to create the email string, find the contact information, And, really, they're they're developing an entire ATS, quite frankly. That's gonna tie sourcing and emailing and Contact enrichment, and truly a sourcing into 1 one platform.

Rich Rosen [00:49:27]:
Early stage company, lot going on, But they have, some tremendous promise. Still, you know, still in the I think it's just coming out of beta right now, but it's definitely worth checking. Obviously, if you agree if you reach out to him, feel free to drop my name. May give you a little discount. But, I I get nothing for it if that helps. So but I like the guys that are running it, so Try that one out. That might be, an interesting tool for you to add to the to the stack. But yeah.

Rich Rosen [00:49:52]:
I mean, other than that, man, I just find most tools are time wasters. I look at them all. Don't get me wrong. I'm the tech guide for Pinnacle. I'm on the the the board as a tech chair. I love looking at them. I look at all of them, but There's just a 1,000,000 of everything, and most of them are the same as the original and a whole lot of creative difference.

Benjamin Mena [00:50:10]:
So at at least for the moment, your 7 figure billing tech stack is Accrualate, Outplay, RingCentral.

Rich Rosen [00:50:17]:
RingCentral, I use Foxit for PDFs. I don't pay for Adobe, and it works just as well as signed docs and everything else. I use Track Point AI and MetaView for recording calls. I think MetaView is does an amazing job for recruiting. It's built just for recruiting. Track AI is getting there, and well, sorry. I mean, I don't even pay for LinkedIn. I pay for Sales Nav, actually, but I don't, I don't use LinkedIn recruiter.

Rich Rosen [00:50:40]:
I just checked, religged in, and and also use I mean, it's I mean, I've got access to everything, but honestly, I don't use most of them. You know, 1 tab is great for building lists for your admins. You know, if you you wanna just open set of cut and pasting stuff, you just open tabs and Right click and saves it to a list. It's yeah. It's funny. I I look at every stupid tool under the sun, and most of them are Not worth time. I mean, it's just I wish they were. You know? I I that's why I love helping these companies out, like, when I find good ones.

Rich Rosen [00:51:10]:
Like, I mean, like, Nebula and Outplay and SendNow, like, I'm trying to help those guys out better it, And I think they're good tools. They just some of them are they're early on. That's why they do have they actually manage.

Benjamin Mena [00:51:22]:
When it comes to your own personal success, what do you think has been a huge driver for that?

Rich Rosen [00:51:26]:
Just I mean, I'm pretty pretty straightforward. For me, it's complete sheer failure. That's it. I don't wanna You were afraid of failing. Absolutely. Everything.

Benjamin Mena [00:51:34]:
That's your biggest driver.

Rich Rosen [00:51:36]:
Everything. That's it's literally it's the, I tell that to people, and they're just they don't buy it, but it is literally it. It's the I think most salespeople have full confidence. Everyone and I and most billers I know have their they know their stuff, but every time you go do it, you're just like, oh, god. You know, did I do it right? Am I gonna do it right? How do you stay at this level? How do you make it work? Like, honestly, I'll be the 1st say, I I do not fully understand why I am as good at this job as I am. So, I don't think I do speak particularly anything perfectly, like I said earlier. But I I like, as I my daughter's very similar. She's very much a collector of people, and I think I'm kind of the same way.

Rich Rosen [00:52:24]:
I think, as I said earlier, if you're true to who you are, you're authentic, and you don't try to be something you're not, it makes your critic kind of easy. You know? I mean, it's a lot of unfortunate things happen, but the basic of it is what makes you successful. It's not all the slick. Again, like, this this guy is like like Scott Love. This is a great example. He's he's got he's like Danny Kaye, a great one liners. He's got a power presentation. Like, he is so much more formal than I am.

Rich Rosen [00:52:54]:
So much more formal than I ever am. I mean, no look at put a called cheer on today. You know? So If I knew you're gonna come like a slop, I would've lost mine on. The, but, I mean, it's I don't know. I mean, I just I get all these calls from people, And I just talk about whatever has come to what I mean, at the TV on 247, so I'm like, there's something crazy thing going on. I'll talk about I don't care if it's politics or one of these, 3rd rail subjects. Who cares? It makes you real. People remember you.

Rich Rosen [00:53:21]:
Even and if you don't agree and you don't agree professionally or or It's even better because, you know, you can have an extra real conversation with someone. It's so I don't know. To me, that's that's kind of it. Awesome. So Well, how about and and

Benjamin Mena [00:53:34]:
this is, like, the last question before we get wrapped up. If you could have a cup of coffee with yourself, Go back early in your career. What would you sit down and tell yourself?

Rich Rosen [00:53:44]:
Don't fucking worry so much. I mean, seriously, That would really truly be it. It's, like I said, fear of failure is a great driver, but it can drive you crazy. It's, but that's really it. I mean, it's very simple.

Benjamin Mena [00:53:59]:
You know? That's awesome.

Rich Rosen [00:54:00]:
You're over worried anywhere with Rich. I don't think so.

Benjamin Mena [00:54:03]:
Before we let you go, is there anything else that you would love to share with the listeners?

Rich Rosen [00:54:07]:
No. It's the w r I. Get yourself planned and organized, man, and have every day ready to rock. I mean, that's that's it. That's half the battle. Once you got it done, might as well do it. So don't plan during the day. That's the number one rule.

Rich Rosen [00:54:22]:
Nice. Or

Benjamin Mena [00:54:25]:
let me let me rephrase it. Don't spend your day sourcing. Know who you're calling.

Rich Rosen [00:54:30]:
Exactly. It's a bet it's been make it very clear. Exactly. And, you know, there's 2 things. I say this all the time. Like, 1, you're right. Don't spend your day sourcing. You should have that plan the day before.

Rich Rosen [00:54:38]:
You can do that while you're watching TV on your laptop. And if you need a bigger laptop, they're cheap now. Buy a bigger laptop. So you can do it. You can do it wherever. Then whenever you're done with your day, you make that one last call. Always add 1 call to your day. It's an extra 5 calls a week.

Rich Rosen [00:54:51]:
I say this all the time. It's 5 calls a week, 20 calls a month, 240 calls a year or whatever it is, and and so gave me extra month worth of work out of it by making 1 dumb call. And you'd be amazed How many times that one call leads to the right candidate or that job order?

Benjamin Mena [00:55:05]:
So Well, Rich, I just wanna say thank you for what coming back on. My pleasure. And you've you've impacted so many people in the recruiting community. Over the years, I've seen you just give, give, give, and give on top of you billing and And everything else that you do. So, for the people that wanna, like, follow you, how would they or maybe, like, you know, check you out.

Rich Rosen [00:55:28]:
So I'm maxed out on LinkedIn connections. Oh, yeah. You got 30,000. So I've got, like, I've been bleeding people, so but if you follow me, just hit the little bell. I think if you go to my profile, you hit the bell, you'll follow me. You can see South Coast. You can follow me on Facebook as well. But, yeah, I I wish I could connect to people sending connections, but I end up having to delete them because I gotta save an insurance clients.

Rich Rosen [00:55:51]:
So how do I get that? But I'm it's that's literally one of my admin's other jobs is deleting people on Old people, like, any people in China and stuff on LinkedIn. Just, you know, clear up space. Awesome. New event. Nossa, man. Thanks for having me. It was fantastic as always. Awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:56:06]:
Well, thank you, Rich. And for the listeners, until next time, guys.

Intro [00:56:10]:
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