Turning Pro in Your Career and Making Everything Count with Brian Moskowitz

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
Coming up on this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast, you've spent a lot of time around Tony Robbins. What are some of the biggest things that a recruiter can learn from Tony Robbins? And like the Tony Robbins trainings that.

Brian Moskowitz [00:00:14]:
You'Ve gone through, there is so much.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:17]:
Do you think NLP is something that recruiters should learn how to utilize?

Brian Moskowitz [00:00:22]:
I think recruiters should learn how to utilize any tool or skill that can help them. Right. An NLP is a great tool. It's just a language of the brain.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:32]:
Welcome to the Elite Recruiter podcast with your host, Benjamin Menna, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership and placements. I've actually been looking forward to this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast. My guess, recruiting wasn't his first career. And there's many, many career professionals out there that have gotten into the recruiting space and are just absolutely crushing it. And I think sometimes they're crushing it better than some of us that have grown up in the space. I think the reason is because, one, they've figured out their network, they figured out their niche, and they've honed this in as a business. And I'm so excited that I have my special guest, Brian Moskowitz, who's also a fire walker.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:21]:
And we're going to talk about that. You're going to like, we're going to talk about that too. But Brian, I just want to say welcome to the podcast.

Brian Moskowitz [00:01:27]:
Thanks, Benjamin. Thank you for having me. As I shared before, I take you and your guests on my long runs with me a couple of times a week. So looking forward to this.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:35]:
Awesome, awesome. So let's just get a quick started. I know that we're going to walk through your story, but what do you do right now as a recruiter?

Brian Moskowitz [00:01:43]:
So as a recruiter, I place attorneys in law firms in Florida. So in picking a niche is a big thing you can do in house positions, you can do law firms. I do law firms. You can go by geography or by practice area. I go by geography. I'm a licensed attorney in Florida, so it made sense for me to place attorneys and law firms in Florida.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:05]:
Awesome. And so I'm so excited about jumping into your story because I have so many questions, everything from being a fire walker to a trainer for Anthony Robbins to you've been a lawyer in and out. You've been a performance coach for lawyer. So let's just dive in. How did you even end up in.

Brian Moskowitz [00:02:19]:
This wonderful world of recruiting so this is my second go round in recruiting. The first time you gotta go back in time 20 years living in New York, and then after 911, my then wife at the time didn't want to be in New York anymore, which made perfect sense, right? So we packed up, I sold my law practice, sold my house, and we moved down to Florida and wasn't licensed to practice in Florida. So I got to figure out what to do. And knowing who I am, I knew I was gonna buy a franchise, a business in a box. I'm really good at executing, so I was looking at, you know, merrymaids and Janet King and mailboxes, etcetera, and a gym. And there was one, you know, MRI manager at recruiters, which was a franchise. So I'm like, that's for me. So I bought the MRI franchise I was placing at that time, legal technology sales professionals.

Brian Moskowitz [00:03:12]:
So people selling into selling technology into law firms, and I quickly got divorced. That went south, lost all my money, my house, all that fun stuff, and couldn't do contingency anymore. So I went back into the practice of law knowing I could make good money and get paid for every hour I worked. So I did that for a while, practiced. And I only did family law this time because I had to work my way through it and help others. So my purgatory, whatever the word is. Then I went into peak performance coaching, right? I had a trainer for Tony Robbins, so I took Tony Robbins and what he does for the world, I took a sliver of that, and I did it for attorneys. I had a business called attorney revolution.

Brian Moskowitz [00:03:55]:
I did one on one coaching. I did CLE events. We did live events. No firewalks there. We did board breaks.

Brian Moskowitz [00:04:02]:
Right?

Brian Moskowitz [00:04:02]:
I had attorneys doing board breaks, and that worked very well for a while until I got recruited. And I got recruited into big law, a firm, you know, one of the oldest in the state of Florida, one of the largest in the state of Florida. Recruited me to come join them to practice family law. I'm like, all right, let's give it a go. So jumped in, did that for a while, and then Covid. And during COVID is when I said, you know what? Life's too short not doing this. Resign my partnership, resigned as a partner, and I went into recruiting for the second time, which is this time. And being a glutton for punishment, I went back to MRI and bought a second franchise because I knew who the owners were at the time, and I had high respect for them, and I knew they were to take us on a good run.

Brian Moskowitz [00:04:51]:
They ended up selling since then, but that's another story. And so the second time in which is now placing attorneys in law firms in Florida. And that's how I got into this wonderful world of recruiting.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:02]:
Okay, so let me take a step back, back to when you like, soldier law practice in New York, you get moved down, sold your house, you were looking at all these different franchises. Like, being a recruiting franchise is like more hardcore sales than a gym or a mailbox, etcetera. Like, why did you choose the sales route over the, hey, let me just sit in an air conditioned office and have people come in to my door route?

Brian Moskowitz [00:05:26]:
I wish I knew. I wish I knew. If, you know, during my journaling, I do a lot of journaling, you know, over the years to figure it out. I think it was that significance within me as an attorney. I wanted to do something professional, right? And while again, not to knock it, but a Janet King, a Mary Mays, those businesses are very successful, right? I just saw myself as an attorney, a professional, and I wanted to go into something professional. Should have picked a gym. That would have been the right way, but it's worked out this way anyway, so that's how I ended up picking the recruiting franchise.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:00]:
So did you look at multiple other recruiting franchises or was it just like MRI was the first one that you saw?

Brian Moskowitz [00:06:04]:
Well, I think I knew of Stanford Rose at the time, and I chose MRI. And we'll leave it at that.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:12]:
Okay, on to the next question then. So you also spend time as a peak performance coach, and that's like a lot of, like, in depth conversations that you're having with these lawyers that are like, you're coaching them. Like you are going deep into these people's lives.

Brian Moskowitz [00:06:28]:
Yes.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:28]:
It's almost like the perfect thing for recruiting. Like, how has that really impacted your relationships with lawyers in the recruiting space?

Brian Moskowitz [00:06:37]:
So I believe it is allowed. The peak performance part has allowed me to, I think, quickly determine whether someone is an a player or not.

Brian Moskowitz [00:06:46]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:06:46]:
Or a b or b plus player. But even more importantly, you know, to realize if it's the person or the team that they're on.

Brian Moskowitz [00:06:55]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:06:55]:
You know, you can have an a player and then they change teams and they quickly become a b player or the opposite. You know, find a b player and then recruit them and move them and quickly they become an a player.

Brian Moskowitz [00:07:06]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:07:07]:
So the team that they're on, the environment, the culture, the training, the mindset, you know, I think is a big piece of that. But also, you know, to your point, the drilling down and the questioning.

Brian Moskowitz [00:07:19]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:07:19]:
Not accepting the surface answer. It was sort of easier with coaching because they were paying me a fee and they were open to answering my questions.

Brian Moskowitz [00:07:28]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:07:28]:
You know, now I got to really sort of peel away the layers to gain their trust.

Brian Moskowitz [00:07:34]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:07:34]:
Not that I did it before, but it was different, you know, now they don't know who I am when I first reach out to them, the attorneys.

Brian Moskowitz [00:07:39]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:07:40]:
So it's building that relationship and then really getting to the core reasons of why they would consider a move. And, you know, then going, why, why, why? And just drilling, you know, to get to the core root of the issue. Pain, pleasure, whatever it is.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:00]:
I'm going to, like, even take a step further back before the performance coaching. So there's a lot of, like, people that have reached out to me over the years, and I'm sure people have reached out to you that have no experience in recruiting at all, but they're highly networked in their space. They're doing great. They're looking at moving into the recruiting space. What kind of advice would you have for somebody that's looking at potentially making that jump?

Brian Moskowitz [00:08:24]:
So one, you got to go pro. You have to be a professional.

Brian Moskowitz [00:08:29]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:08:30]:
When I first went into recruiting, I would say I was an amateur. And this is from the book turning pro by Stephen Pressfield, which we'll get into later on the books. You know, I was an amateur, same as I was an amateur. When I first practiced law, I was raising my two kids. I had to structure my life around them, you know? And when I first started recruiting, the second go round, my first deal was a three way firm merger.

Brian Moskowitz [00:08:52]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:08:53]:
So it was a very decent fee, and one of the firms ended up leaving a year later. But, you know, I'm like, well, this is easy, right? You know, so I picked up the phone, called a few friends, made a three way deal. Boom, done. So I may not have taken it as professionally as I would have liked, or I should have, but I quickly learned that this is a professional business. You have to get up every morning, get dressed, go to the office, plan your day, have your schedule, have it on your calendar, execute. My advice to someone would be, if you're going to do this, you're going to do this. You have to go all in and treat it as a profession.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:31]:
Let's take a step back. Let's like. So you said you approached Netflix.

Brian Moskowitz [00:09:35]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:35]:
I love this. Like, you're giving me this so much stuff. I'm having. I'm having fun over here, but you. Okay, so you just said something I think that is absolutely key and was keeping a lot of people back. The difference between amateur and pro. And you just said that the first time that you approached it, you did it as an amateur. Even though you bought a whole business, you bought a franchise, you had the coaching, you had the training, but then you decided to go pro.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:59]:
Can you talk about that difference between a true amateur and a true pro? And what really made that decision happen?

Brian Moskowitz [00:10:06]:
So being an amateur wasn't working. It just wasn't working. If I didn't want to work, I didn't work. The income as a contingent recruiter, you'd make a fee and not make a fee. Make a fee, not make a fee. The reason I bought a franchise to begin with is for the structure and the consistency and the business plan to execute.

Brian Moskowitz [00:10:27]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:10:27]:
I guess I had success. Too easy to start. I figured I knew it.

Brian Moskowitz [00:10:31]:
All right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:10:32]:
And then again, I love reading books. Steven Press on his book turning pro, right? He's got a few, but that one, like, oh, damn, I got to wake up, right? This is a true profession. I have to treat it as such. No more rolling on a bed, t shirt, and shorts, right? Get up, get it done. I'm in an office here, so, yeah, although I walk to work, which is.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:53]:
Pretty cool, walking to work is like the best thing ever. I wish I could do that more often, even though I just walked downstairs. But I see that a lot of people, like, when they jump into their own recruiting business, and it's almost like the things that I see that really separates the successful from the not successful. It's really. It's that structure and that accountability. Like, when you're at somebody else's recruiting business, working a recruiting job, they tell you what to do when it's your own business and you're at home by yourself, you're like, you know what? Do I have to make that extra call? Do I have to actually send that extra email?

Brian Moskowitz [00:11:25]:
Do I have to show up today?

Benjamin Mena [00:11:26]:
Yeah.

Brian Moskowitz [00:11:27]:
I don't show up. Nobody's looking for me.

Brian Moskowitz [00:11:29]:
Right?

Brian Moskowitz [00:11:29]:
It's not like the court is calling and saying, mister Moskowitz, you know, trial was at 09:00. It's 930. Where are you?

Brian Moskowitz [00:11:34]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:11:35]:
I'm not at my desk at 09:00 making calls. Nobody knows.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:38]:
And, you know, in today's world, also, like the social media, you can spend all day on social media, okay? And now with this 2024, all these lessons that you've learned over time, like, how have you become a better recruiter because of, you know, you decided to go pro. And among other things.

Brian Moskowitz [00:11:53]:
So, making all the mistakes and going back to basics, right. There's all these newfangled tools out there, you know, AI just being one of them. So it's just having a plan, right. Scheduling the plan, executing the plan, debriefing the plan, adjusting as necessary, starting again, creating the plan, scheduling, executing, debriefing, adjusting, start again. And it's just that cycle.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:21]:
Okay. One thing I love this. MRI recruiters or people that have been around the MRI training or programming, planning is something different for you all. For many times, people that weren't in that structure, planning is like, here's my top three things I'm going to do today for the people that are listening, what does planning for you actually look like?

Brian Moskowitz [00:12:43]:
So, planning for me is probably a little different than the MRI. Again, I've taken parts from MRI. I've taken parts from Tony Robbins RPM, David Allen getting things done. And I sort of have my way of doing it. I have my Kobe Koch quadrants or Eisenhower matrix. Urgent, important. Not urgent important. Those four boxes.

Brian Moskowitz [00:13:05]:
So I have that planned out. What do I need to do today? I then get that onto my schedule, right? And then I just follow along my schedule. Okay. This is what I'm doing from nine to ten, okay? And I set an alarm.

Brian Moskowitz [00:13:16]:
Boom.

Brian Moskowitz [00:13:17]:
Sometimes I'll extend it, sometimes I won't. All right, here's ten to twelve.

Brian Moskowitz [00:13:20]:
All right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:13:21]:
Today was I had to shift things around, right. Because I knew I was doing this, right. But again, it's on the calendar. I moved other things off the calendar. So, yeah, that's how. That is my plan. And weekly.

Brian Moskowitz [00:13:33]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:13:33]:
I go through again what I want to accomplish the next week and monthly, the next month and quarterly and yearly. And one key piece. Again, this is straight from Tony Robbins RPM rapid planning method. Don't start with to do list, right? What is your outcome?

Brian Moskowitz [00:13:49]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:13:49]:
What is that? You know, shining star, the northern light, the compass. Where are you headed? What is the outcome that you want? Once you know that, you know, it's a smart outcome. Specific, measurable, achievable, realistic. Time boundenhouse. Why do you want it?

Brian Moskowitz [00:14:03]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:14:03]:
You're going to run into roadblocks. There's going to be days. You don't want to do it. But with that juice, that purpose, it'll push you forward. It'll make you, you know, work 14 hours a day. It'll make you just do whatever it is that you need to do to accomplish it. Now you have your outcome, your purpose. Now you got your action list to dos whatever you want to call it, your massive action plan.

Brian Moskowitz [00:14:24]:
And now you can start executing.

Brian Moskowitz [00:14:25]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:14:26]:
But you got to know where you're going first.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:28]:
So often I have conversations with recruiters, and that is one of the questions. I was like, where do you want to go? And that's, like, what I'm thinking. Like, what's your dream? And, you know, it really is. Like, so often I just tell people, like, you need to sit down and figure it out. Like, you need to spend some time figuring out what you want to do. But, okay, curiosity.

Brian Moskowitz [00:14:45]:
Or even on. Even on a day, like, why am I making these phone calls, right? Why do I email that person?

Brian Moskowitz [00:14:49]:
Right?

Brian Moskowitz [00:14:49]:
Why is this call on my schedule?

Brian Moskowitz [00:14:51]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:14:51]:
What's the outcome I'm trying to achieve? And is there a quicker, faster, better way to get there?

Benjamin Mena [00:14:57]:
Okay, I'm excited about this question. You've spent a lot of time around Tony Robbins. What are some of the biggest things that a recruiter can learn from Tony Robbins? And, like, the Tony Robbins trainings that you've gone through?

Brian Moskowitz [00:15:11]:
There is so much. Right. I mean, I've been involved there 17 years, and a lot of it is ingrained in me. I was having a conversation last week when they said, you just use NLP, right? No linguistic program. Like, I have no idea.

Brian Moskowitz [00:15:26]:
Right?

Brian Moskowitz [00:15:26]:
I've been trained in it, but it's part of who I am. And all Tony's teachings and trainings have become part of who I am. But it's the way you see the world, the way you process information, knowing what you control and what you don't control. Accepting reality.

Brian Moskowitz [00:15:43]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:15:43]:
You know, I was raining when I walked here, right? You know, did I want to rain? No, but it is raining. So what did I do?

Brian Moskowitz [00:15:48]:
Right?

Brian Moskowitz [00:15:48]:
I took an umbrella.

Brian Moskowitz [00:15:49]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:15:50]:
You know, that's just a silly example. You get a turndown in recruiting, okay, the world isn't over. It's reality. Figure out what to do next.

Brian Moskowitz [00:15:57]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:15:57]:
Accepting the facts on the ground.

Brian Moskowitz [00:16:00]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:16:01]:
And creating a plan as to how to go forward. So whether it's, you know, Tony Robbins or Danny Cahill or listen to your podcast or mark whip or whatever it is, right. You know, you got to feed your mind with the right. And I'm sort of rambling here with the right information, because if you don't feed your mind right, somebody else will. Whether it's the news media or your friends or the people you call that are rude to you, you got to feed your mind proactively before others do. So, yes, you can learn from Tony Robbins is do what you know you shouldn't do. All right, so let's call it that. Do what you know you should do.

Brian Moskowitz [00:16:41]:
I've been around Tony for a long time, and I see people coming to events again and again and again. And after ten years, they're not ten years into it, right? They've had ten one years, right. Because they don't do what they know they're supposed to do.

Brian Moskowitz [00:16:56]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:16:56]:
So that's what I would say. Do what you know what you're supposed to do.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:02]:
Ooh, that's like a powerful take right there, because I've seen it over the years. I've seen it with my own life. I've seen it with other people. Like, you go to an event and you get hyped up and pumped up, and then a week and a half later, you're sitting in front of your desk and you're sitting there looking like, do I need to make the decision to pick up a phone? Am I going to make the decision to send this email? Am I going to make this video, man? Do it.

Brian Moskowitz [00:17:29]:
Yeah, me too. I've been there, too.

Brian Moskowitz [00:17:32]:
Right?

Brian Moskowitz [00:17:32]:
And I'm still there on some days. What I will say, though, is the time, right, has, you know, whether in the past they would take it. I procrastinate for an hour now. It's like, all right, three, two, one, go.

Brian Moskowitz [00:17:44]:
Right?

Brian Moskowitz [00:17:44]:
Then I forget the woman's name as the book, I think, is three, two, one, go. Shares the podcast as well. But, yeah, so I still have those thoughts and feelings, except now I'm like, get out of here, and I just do it. So I trained myself.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:56]:
I think that this right there, the last five minutes, is the absolute takeaway from this podcast. So, like, real quick, if you're listening to this, hit the rewind button five or six times so you can play that over again. The advice that he got, really just the impact from Tony Robbins in the recruiting world that Brian just shared. I think we can almost finish the podcast up while you're there.

Brian Moskowitz [00:18:17]:
I'm going to rewind it, too, because I have no idea what I said.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:21]:
In that note. Also, you've had a lot of success. You've had a lot of up and downs. You've been recruiting twice. You've been around all these peak performance training structures. What's the biggest things that you see that recruiters are typically not doing or failing with? That's keeping them from succeeding, not training.

Brian Moskowitz [00:18:38]:
Their mindset as much as they train their skillset.

Brian Moskowitz [00:18:42]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:18:42]:
I think you need to train your mindset just as much, if not more than your skillset, right. Because whatever your skills are, your mind's going to get in the way. So, yeah, train your mindset.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:53]:
Awesome. And with all these people that you've coached over these years, like, you're the one I know asking all the questions, is there a question that you always wish they actually asked you?

Brian Moskowitz [00:19:04]:
The question they don't want the answer to.

Brian Moskowitz [00:19:06]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:19:07]:
The question they're afraid to ask themselves.

Brian Moskowitz [00:19:10]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:19:10]:
Because once you ask that question and you start peeling away the layers, you get to the real, raw truth as to why they're not doing what they say they want to do.

Brian Moskowitz [00:19:22]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:19:22]:
And we all have somewhere in our life where we're not, where we want to be, where there's a gap, right. And you want to close the gap, but until you get. So you're calling it tight. Right. Until you have the absolute raw truth, you're never gonna close that gap. Cause you telling yourself a story.

Brian Moskowitz [00:19:37]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:19:37]:
And that's what I think holds most people back. The story you tell yourself about why you can't have what it is you say you want.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:44]:
How does somebody, like, maybe not in a coaching program, break themselves down to figure out what that raw truth is.

Brian Moskowitz [00:19:50]:
So they can start journaling if it's. If they just, you know, by themselves, out of coach. No. Journaling.

Brian Moskowitz [00:19:55]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:19:55]:
You know, journal the question and keep going deeper and deeper and deeper and understand the difference between a fact and a story.

Brian Moskowitz [00:20:04]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:20:05]:
You know, a fact is something that happened. It's the absolute truth. Right. Story is you create around the facts as to why it happened. Well, it doesn't matter. Stick with the facts as to why you didn't work out when you said you did, why you didn't pick up the phone when you wanted to. Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:24]:
I feel like I can keep on asking you questions on this for, like, the next 45 minutes or probably the next, like, 3 hours, so. But we're gonna.

Brian Moskowitz [00:20:30]:
We're gonna jump ahead. My schedule, there's nothing on it. Flex. Right. That's another thing. You have to leave some flexibility in the schedule. I didn't know if this was gonna run late, stop early tech issues. Who knows? So you have to build that flexibility into your schedule.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:47]:
What has been one of your favorite things about working with Tony Robbins?

Brian Moskowitz [00:20:52]:
Raising my children in that environment.

Brian Moskowitz [00:20:54]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:20:55]:
So my kids, my adults, who are. Now, don't kill me if I get this wrong. My daughter's gonna be 26, my son is 23. They have been in that environment since, I think, 14 and eleven.

Brian Moskowitz [00:21:08]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:21:08]:
So they have been raised in that environment, it takes a village. They were raised by the fireteam village. So there was a six or seven year period where I took my kids out of school four times a year and we traveled the country with Tony Robbins, building the fires for the fire walks he does at his unleash the power events. And so yeah, they did that for like six, seven years straight. And that has built within them resilience, toughness, the mindset, teamwork, leadership. So many different great things that I think, not that they're better than their peers, although I think they are. They just see the world, you know, differently than someone their age who did not grow up in that environment and have the responsibilities that they had and the experiences and teachings that they were privy to.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:03]:
So curiosity, when it comes to fire walking, what is the purpose of going across the fire?

Brian Moskowitz [00:22:08]:
To prove to yourself, right, you can do something that you think is impossible. So when we get them out there, you're looking down at 2500 degree calls and use. Can you show us on this podcast?

Benjamin Mena [00:22:19]:
Yes, you can, right?

Brian Moskowitz [00:22:20]:
And you say, there's no fucking way I'm walking across that, right? And then you do. And then, you know, you look back like, holy shit, I just did that.

Brian Moskowitz [00:22:27]:
Right?

Brian Moskowitz [00:22:28]:
So what other story are you telling yourself about why you can't do something? No, I can't, you know, make those phone calls? No, I can't. I, you know, have that amount cash in? No, I can't make that number of places. So it's all story, right? And it's just a metaphor, right? Whatever story you create in your mind that why you can't do it. You just walked across 2500 degree colds, right. And it doesn't mean you're not gonna get a hot spot in your foot, right? So in the real world you're gonna stub your toe, right? You gonna get hurt. Yes. But you gotta keep going. And in all my years has never been one person that stopped while they're walking across the hot calls, right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:23:07]:
You go, and if you get a hot spot, you just keep going, right? And whether you get a hot spot or not doesn't matter. The fact is you took that step, you owned it. You said, I am going to do this. So whether it's in business or in health or in asking the person out, whatever it is, that's all it's a metaphor for. Whatever story you tell yourself to hold you back, you can break through. Same thing as a board break.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:30]:
I was going to ask you if anybody's ever actually stopped in the middle of the calls, but you answered that.

Brian Moskowitz [00:23:34]:
One and no one could actually stopped in the middle of the calls.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:37]:
And then I was also going to ask you, like, how a recruiter could utilize that, and you just went straight into there and nailed that answer. So you kind of killed that one for me. Good job. You also mentioned NLP. Do you think NLP is something that recruiters should learn how to utilize?

Brian Moskowitz [00:23:54]:
I think recruiters should learn how to utilize any tool or skill that can help them. Right. An NLP is a great tool. It's just a language of the brain, you know. So a simple, easy example is when you're talking to someone, right? Hey, Benjamin, imagine when you're working at that firm, right? Picture yourself there and what it's going to be like. I'm having you create that image in your mind. Just little tricks like that, right.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:20]:
As part of NLP, maybe whole NLP podcast episode. But it's, you know, we're recruiters. We're such great storytellers. But what you just said is like, imagine yourself. It's not just the storytelling, it's now storytelling, the future.

Brian Moskowitz [00:24:35]:
It's having them see it actually happening.

Brian Moskowitz [00:24:39]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:24:39]:
What do you think it'll be like when you're over there? See yourself over there, right? See yourself working with them, see where your career is going. And that's just one. That's if they're visual.

Brian Moskowitz [00:24:50]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:24:50]:
If they're a one, a Tory.

Brian Moskowitz [00:24:51]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:24:52]:
How would it sound?

Brian Moskowitz [00:24:53]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:24:54]:
If you worked at that firm, right. And you have to figure out if the auditory, you know, or visual or kinesthetics. Lots of different ways.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:02]:
Oh, yeah. I think you have now made me go back and I'm going to think of a way to do a tire episode on NLP and recruiting.

Brian Moskowitz [00:25:10]:
I can tell you who the best NLP practitioners are offline, and we'll put you in touch.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:14]:
Let's do that. Well, before we jump over to the quick fire questions, is there anything else that you want to share about, like a second career, like in recruiting or, you know, the second time around, jumping back into recruiting or just like what you can learn from all the stuff that you've learned from Tony Robbins, your own coaching program, and how actually recruiters can be better?

Brian Moskowitz [00:25:31]:
So I'll answer it this way. We had talked about lots of legal recruiters are attorneys, right? And the lawyer personality is, I would say, if not diametrically opposed, close to the personality needed for recruiting. When I was practicing, I was a hot commodity. I was in demand with no marketing, turning away business, my identity was strong I was significant. I'm a powerful attorney and now I am cold calling and cold emailing attorneys 20 years my junior were not responding to me. It's a different mentality. You have to make sure that the identity that you had is not as an attorney, because then you'll sink, right. The identity has to be as a human being, a father, a business leader, a mother, a parent, a servant, whatever it is, because it's a big shift from one to the other.

Brian Moskowitz [00:26:28]:
And there's all these studies by Doctor Larry Richard, the lawyer brain. Attorneys are not resilient at all. They don't like being challenged as a recruiter. Well, you better damn well be resisting because you're getting challenged all day long, right? So it's a different skillset. So if you're going to do it, just be fully aware of what you're getting yourself into.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:48]:
I've been having conversations all week with people and I just get conversations behind the scenes about identity actually.

Brian Moskowitz [00:26:57]:
And deadline is critical.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:59]:
And it's so often like our identity is attached to something like being a lawyer, working at this job, but it's like really figuring out how to craft your identity. That's part of it. But that's not everything.

Brian Moskowitz [00:27:13]:
Because if you lose that identity, if you're no longer practicing law, right, what happens now? Do you have no more self worth? Are you not worthy? Well, no. So you have to be careful with the identity because people will do anything humanly possible to remain consistent with their identity.

Brian Moskowitz [00:27:31]:
Right?

Brian Moskowitz [00:27:32]:
So if you are an athlete, right, you'll do whatever it takes to be an athlete. If you consider yourself a couch potato, right. You'll do whatever it takes not to work out, right. It's whatever the strongest phrase, I am blank. Whatever you put after I am, you will make happen. So just be very careful what you fill in that blank with.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:53]:
If you're listening to this podcast and you're actually not running or at the gym, write down on a note card im and then put the next words in. And actually, you know what? Take it one step further. Shit it myself. And Brian, I'd love to hear what you are either building your identity for building it towards, or just what you are as a person.

Brian Moskowitz [00:28:13]:
And the next step we'll keep going is incantations. Once you have your I am statement, right, you have to incant it out loud, right? So your subconscious picks it up. So writing it down is great, but you want to get your whole body involved, right? So I am worthy, I am successful, I am loving, I am whatever it.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:32]:
Is for you, how many times a day do you have to, like, should you be saying this before it really becomes to your core? I know you like, you also talked about how often that you're putting good stuff in your head.

Brian Moskowitz [00:28:44]:
Yeah, all the time.

Brian Moskowitz [00:28:45]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:28:46]:
In the morning. There's a specific things that I do to get my mindset ready throughout the day. I'll get myself pumped up. I have a rebounder that I'm jumping on.

Brian Moskowitz [00:28:54]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:28:54]:
You know, to get the blood flowing. Yeah. You just have to be very careful what you allow into your world.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:01]:
And I think for anybody going, this will be the last thing before we jump over the quick for our questions going into between now and November, there are so many opportunities for you just to be distracted. And if you focus on putting the right things in your head, focus on putting in the work, focus on doing some of the things that Brian was just talking about doing, you can really stand out as a recruiter for the rest of this year. So jumping over to the quickfire questions, I'm going to enjoy these advice to a brand new recruiter that's just getting started in our wonderful industry this year, turning pro.

Brian Moskowitz [00:29:37]:
I mean, that's what I would say right from day one. If you treat this as a profession like a doctor or a lawyer or an accountant, you are a recruiter. You are a professional recruiter and treat it like that.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:49]:
Same question. But for people that have been around the block 510, 20 years or maybe even their second time around like you are, what advice would you give to them to see success?

Brian Moskowitz [00:29:58]:
Same thing. And if I had to add something, we touched on it. Because again, what I do. Got to feed your mind, got to work on your mindset as much as your skillset, even to this day.

Brian Moskowitz [00:30:07]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:30:07]:
I am constantly working on building up a positive mindset, mentally tough, resilient, because I know what's going to happen during the day, right. I could have the greatest skills in the world. I could have the gift and gab the golden tongue, whatever you want to, you know, the ability to influence anybody. But if one person shoots me down and I'm not resilient, it doesn't matter.

Brian Moskowitz [00:30:29]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:30:30]:
So you got to keep working that mindset. You've had a bunch of people on here who say the same thing. I mean, Brent or suga, Julia Arpak, the hockey player who's a professional, I forget his name.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:39]:
Dominic.

Brian Moskowitz [00:30:39]:
Yeah. So yeah, you had a bunch of them on there.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:42]:
And it's kind of funny. You've also mentioned Mark Whitby's podcast, the resilient recruiter. I asked him, I was like the name, like, resilient, like your podcast. And he's like, this is exactly why.

Brian Moskowitz [00:30:51]:
Yeah, Mark, be great guy.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:53]:
I love Mark. Shout out to Mark. All right, I know you were ready for this one.

Brian Moskowitz [00:30:59]:
Uh oh.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:02]:
What book has had a huge impact on your own personal career?

Brian Moskowitz [00:31:04]:
Aha. Too many to name. But what I did is I was walking to my offices, I grabbed a bunch off the shelf. So here we are. We're going to go. All right, so starting off with an oldie buddy goodie, how to win friends and influence people, because nobody really cares about you. All they do is care about themselves. So you have to make sure, right, you are focused on them.

Brian Moskowitz [00:31:26]:
And just one little interesting thing, I pulled out the bookmark here, which was a New Jersey transit receipt. But the interesting part is, I don't know if you can see it's dated March 22, 2008, right? So that is, I guess, when I first started reading this book. And I've kept the same bookmark in there as I reread it over the years. Next one, stoicism. I don't if you or your fans are familiar with stoicism, but Marcus Aurelius meditations, right? And one of the things I do when I read is I mark up the pages, I take notes, I put little stars. So one of the big things from stoicism, Marcus Aurelius, is you could die. Right? One of the quotes, you could die right now. So that guy would you say do and think, right? We're not guaranteed to make it to the end of this podcast, right? So let that guide what you do, say and think in this moment and every moment forward.

Brian Moskowitz [00:32:17]:
Yeah. So stoicism is really powerful. Ryan Holiday has a great set of books on that. All right, next set of books, we talked about turning pro, Steven Pressfield, right? So his books, the War of Art and turning pro. So the war of art was also really important to me. You know, as an attorney, there are external deadlines, right. I need to meet external deadlines. As a recruiter, contingent recruiter, I have no external deadlines.

Brian Moskowitz [00:32:44]:
I said if I show up, don't show up, nobody knows.

Brian Moskowitz [00:32:46]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:32:47]:
This sort of helps from an art perspective, which recruiting is an art, right? Help you wrap your mind around the war of art. The war you go through every day creating your day to go forward, the war you go through mentally to do what you do. So that was good. And then we talked about turning pro, becoming a professional, and then I would see the most badass coach out there and I was grateful enough to take a coaching program with him in a group environment is Tim Grover. So he had his books, relentless and winning. And it's all about obsession. My favorite thing, when people say, what's the one thing that I should do? Tim Grover says, no, there is no one thing. There's everything, right? There is no seven minute abs.

Brian Moskowitz [00:33:31]:
There is no one secret to success. You have to do anything and everything to achieve your goals. So I highly recommend tennis. Bop's relentless and winning. There is nobody in this world who knows more about winning than Tim, having coached all the greats he's coached. And that's just several of the many books that have had an impact on me.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:51]:
Tim's amazing, man. Steve Pressfield's books. If you want an ass kicking. My God.

Brian Moskowitz [00:33:58]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:59]:
Some of those books will, like, rip you open and show you the real life. In a good way. In a good way, yeah. And it's, you know, every person that reads the, like every book, you always get something different out of it. But, yeah, all great. Great.

Brian Moskowitz [00:34:13]:
And when you reread that, right, you can read them again.

Brian Moskowitz [00:34:15]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:34:15]:
And, you know, you are in a different place in your life when you reread them. So you'll see and feel something different when you go through it the second time, learn something different.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:24]:
So you just mentioned Tim Gerver talking about there isn't one secret to success. And one of my next questions always is like, you know, what do you think has been a major part, aka a secret, for your own personal success over the years?

Brian Moskowitz [00:34:41]:
So it would have to be starting out, you know, being at the lowest of the low after my divorce, getting involved in Tony Robbins and being exposed to this whole world out there of, you know, Tony and Tim Grover and Stephen Pressfield and Marcus Aurelius and Stoicism. To consistently put myself in environments and around people who are just playing this game at a level much higher than me so I can strive to be where they are.

Brian Moskowitz [00:35:10]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:35:10]:
It's just, yeah. You know, creating the environment for yourself where you can thrive.

Brian Moskowitz [00:35:15]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:35:15]:
Again, that's the key, creating it for yourself, because no one's going to create it for you.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:19]:
How did you end up in that, like, in the world of Tony Robbins?

Brian Moskowitz [00:35:23]:
So after my divorce, I went through what I call the death spiral and my kids will see this at some point, so we'll leave it at that. But whatever I was doing wasn't working.

Brian Moskowitz [00:35:32]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:35:32]:
You know, tried lots of different modalities that I was driving somewhere and I heard on the radio, I mean, that'd be Internet back then. Yeah, this is 17 years ago. So whatever that was. He was going to be in Orlando, right? Doing an event. So I'm like, all right, let's go. So drove up there, he wasn't even there.

Brian Moskowitz [00:35:48]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:35:48]:
This is during the time where he was doing, you know, movie theaters and renting conference halls in hotels with a facilitator and videos. And I'm like, this is Sineadheaddeh. Plunked down my credit card, bought the next level. Just the information, but at the environment and the people that I met that day were the people I wanted to surround myself with. And, yeah, it just happened. So I got lucky hearing on the radio, and boom, here I am 17 years later.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:16]:
Okay, so you heard it on the radio. You went to a thing, you bought a course. But you didn't just buy a course. You went and found a way to get involved. How did you do that?

Brian Moskowitz [00:36:23]:
Okay, so after I did the event in Orlando, I bought. His next level was master university. And once you attend an event and go through it and graduate from that event, you can then volunteer at that event. It's called crewing.

Brian Moskowitz [00:36:38]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:36:38]:
So after attending UPW, I went back and crewed, which is you volunteer to help people.

Brian Moskowitz [00:36:44]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:36:45]:
From there, I moved on to the fire team, which is a team that builds the fires that people walk on. Let's idea. The Navy SeALs, the elite special forces that jump in, build the fire, and leave. That was one track, and the next track was to become a trainer. There are other required courses you must take. You go through a leadership program. There's different levels. Before you are promoted to train, there's a few different levels for you can get promoted to trainer.

Brian Moskowitz [00:37:13]:
I think I was promoted about seven years ago. So, yeah, it's one taking the courses he likes. When you take his courses, pay him the money for the courses. That helps.

Brian Moskowitz [00:37:21]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:37:22]:
But once you go through them, you have to check the bots on certain skill sets. You are being evaluated the whole way as to whether you check the boxes on the skillsets that they are specifically looking for. And then if you do, it's like any corporation. You get promoted up the chain of command and the ladder.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:38]:
You had to ask because there's so many people that go buy a course, but at the end of everything is after buying that course and you decide to go also, outside of your recruiting, outside of you doing mergers and acquisitions and major deals, placing lawyers, you're also helping people become better themselves.

Brian Moskowitz [00:37:56]:
And I still attend events. Two weeks ago, he did an event at the Palm Beach county convention center. And I paid to attend as a participant.

Brian Moskowitz [00:38:04]:
Right.

Brian Moskowitz [00:38:04]:
So I get it. The learning never ends.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:07]:
So we're going to jump from learning to the hard days. And we've talked about the hard days. We talked about being pro, but how do you make it through those tough weeks?

Brian Moskowitz [00:38:16]:
So exercise is a big part of it, right? Journaling, knowing that tomorrow will be better. Understanding what's in my control. What's not in my control. Accepting reality. Not everyone wants to work with me. Not every attorney to say, hey, you know what, Brian? Yes. Let's do a deep dive. And you can say to this firm, not every law firm is going to want to give me a job order or an engagement seat.

Brian Moskowitz [00:38:40]:
It's understanding the world and how it works and accepting reality and moving forward and being grateful that, you know, I'm sitting in this chair today because plenty of people are underground, were younger than me.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:55]:
And this goes into my favorite question. We're going to kind of out maybe ask this two ways. We're going to ask this. When you first started recruiting, when you first bought the MRR franchise, and the second time you jumped back in, but with everything that you know now, the trainings, the books you've read, the ups and the downs, the pain, the success, if you can go back and give yourself advice at the very beginning of your recruiting career, when you first bought that MRI franchise, what advice would you give yourself?

Brian Moskowitz [00:39:22]:
So way back when the first time would have been, everything's gonna be okay, right? That was just a blip, right? Because again, it wasn't the best environment, you know, back then when I just got divorced, right after I purchased it. But I guess getting out of your own way. Getting out of your own way, right. Doing what you know you're supposed to do, right. I think that all ties in together. Getting everybody knowing supposed to do. And stop creating those bullshit stories in your head that stop you from getting what you want to get.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:53]:
And same question, but let's fast forward a few years to when you jump back into recruiting and you have things a little more figured out. You have more success, you enjoy it way more. Is there some advice that you would give yourself on your second time around?

Brian Moskowitz [00:40:07]:
I'd say it's the same thing, but reinforce it even harder because now that I've been around a while and have had some success, you can get lazy, right? But you can't, right. Because there's somebody else out there who is calling my clients, calling the attorneys that I'm working with, right? So it's the same thing. Stop telling yourself those B's stories, you know, feed your mind, build that mindset, do your incantations, prepare yourself for the battle you will face, you know, every day. And again, I still have that right. Like I said, what I have been successful in doing is shortening the time of the pity parties.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:44]:
Love that. Well, Brian, before I let you go, if somebody wants to follow you, how can they go about doing that?

Brian Moskowitz [00:40:50]:
LinkedIn is the best way I post, you know, probably Monday to Friday. I tend to take the weekends off unless something hits me right. But LinkedIn is the best way to find me. Best place to find me.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:00]:
Awesome. And before I let you go, is there anything else that you would have loved to share with the listeners?

Brian Moskowitz [00:41:03]:
I think we covered a lot. And again, I'm excited to go back because again, while I had my outcome for this podcast, I've been doing a lot of rambling and I'm interested to hear what I said.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:14]:
I had the entire focus of making this focus on a conversation of second career professionals and the impact that they can do. But then we just went down the rabbit hole of success principles. We went down the rabbit hole of like, the mindset and the things that you need to do. So I am not going to lie, I am grateful for this episode and I'm super excited to actually get listened to it again once it goes live. But man, if you got a chance to listen to this, you enjoy the conversation. Make sure to go follow Brian on LinkedIn, okay? And most importantly, put in the work because I want 2024 to be your best year yet. Keep crushing it, guys. Dance.