Digital Sales & Marketing Tips for Recruiters with Clark Willcox

[00:00:56] From telecom sales to recruiting misfits

[00:06:03] Identify strengths, focus on ideal role.

[00:09:01] Recruiters undervalue their worth to companies.

[00:12:11] Optimize LinkedIn profile to showcase achievements.

[00:16:07] Business success requires good habits and effort.

[00:19:45] Copywriting is crucial for recruiters to learn.

[00:22:31] Quality leads come from strategic posts.

[00:27:42] "Relationship building crucial for successful recruiters."

[00:32:32] Recruiters should always keep learning.

[00:35:15] Bible helped me have boundaries and forgiveness.

[00:39:56] Recruiters need to dig and understand people.

[00:41:42] Hire a recruiter with tenacity and adaptability.

[00:45:32] Self-care, fun, celebrate wins, be light

1. What are some key skills that recruiters should possess in order to be successful in 2023?
Answer: Copywriting, ability to adapt quickly, soft skills, tenacity, ability to pick up on nuances during phone calls, and ability to build rapport quickly.
2. What is the role of building relationships in recruiting?
Answer: Building relationships is crucial for success in recruiting, and top billers focus on building rapport quickly, getting people to confide in them, and showing that they have their back.
3. How important is it for recruiters to understand their own strengths and skill sets?
Answer: It is very important for recruiters to understand their own strengths and skill sets in order to sell themselves to potential clients or employers, focus on areas of expertise, and create momentum in their career.
4. Can Copywriting skills benefit recruiters?
Answer: Yes, Copywriting skills are considered important for recruiters to reach a wider audience, add value and relevance to their market, and create meaningful posts that can open doors for their business.
5. How can recruiters be intentional about becoming top billers?
Answer: Recruiters can be intentional about becoming top billers by looking at what successful recruiters are doing, building relationships, handling logistics, focusing on making the best matches possible, having a long-term mindset, and understanding the process.
6. Why is understanding the value of great recruiting important?
Answer: Understanding the value of great recruiting is important for recruiters to understand what clients expect from an agency, recognize the value they bring to a company, and position themselves as experts in the industry.
7. What are some intangible qualities to look for in a successful recruiter?
Answer: Some intangible qualities to look for in a successful recruiter include quick learning, responsibility, the ability to throw oneself into a role, and tenacity.
8. How can recruiters navigate gray areas effectively?
Answer: Recruiters can navigate gray areas effectively by having boundaries, being able to forgive quickly, identifying and communicating what a good recruit is and what a bad one is, and understanding that life is full of gray areas.
9. How can recruiters make the most out of their phone call skills?
Answer: Recruiters can make the most out of their phone call skills by picking up on nuances, digging deeper to uncover information, asking questions, and taking notes to follow up with people they spoke to in the past.
10. How do clients view the hiring process?
Answer: Clients may be nonchalant about the hiring process or may not understand the value of great recruiting, but recruiters can help them recognize the critical role that people play in a company's success.

Topic 1: Recruitment Climate- Enjoying current recruitment climate- Past few years were a facade- Closing business is difficult- Successful recruitment involves consistent hard work and constant improvement
Topic 2: Copywriting- Importance of Copywriting- Value of adding relevance and value to market- Consistent practice and learning- Getting a Copywriting coach
Topic 3: Building Effective Recruiting Teams- Importance of adaptability, quick learning, and responsibility- Soft-spoken recruiters can be as successful- Picking up on nuances during phone calls- Focus on creating follow-up systems within a team.
Topic 4: Value of Recruiting- Recruiters need to recognize and communicate the value they bring- Critical role in a company's success- Building confidence and owning self-worth
Topic 5: Top Billers- Reverse engineer process- Building relationships and quickly building rapport- Focus on making best matches- Room for long-term growth and mindset
Topic 6: Identifying Resonance- Importance of knowing audience- Focus on people who resonate- Identifying strengths and skill sets- Continuous learning and improvement
Topic 7: Forgiveness and Boundaries- Importance of boundaries and forgiveness- Good recruit vs. bad recruit- Navigating gray areas effectively

Podcast Episode Summary:

Topic 1: Adapting to the Current Recruitment Climate
- Enjoying the current recruitment climate and recognizing it may be tough for others
- Revealing who has good and bad habits
- Closing business is different and more difficult than obtaining job orders
- Being successful in the past doesn't necessarily mean success in present or future
- Importance of fixing systems, understanding what works and constantly improving

Topic 2: Importance of Copywriting in Recruiting
- Finding someone who is skilled in copywriting to learn from
- Understanding the value of copywriting in reaching a wider audience
- Adding value and relevance through entertaining and meaningful posts
- Practicing regularly and learning from likes and comments
- Getting a copywriting coach to expedite the learning curve

Topic 3: Qualities to Look for in Agency Recruiters
- Finding someone who can adapt quickly and has quick learning and responsibility qualities
- The ability to throw oneself into a role, even with limited knowledge or skill
- Importance of building rapport and understanding listeners
- Successful recruiters pick up nuances during phone calls and dig deeper to uncover information
- Focus on getting the most out of this skill by asking questions and following up
- Creating systems, taking notes and following up with people they spoke to in the past
- Recognizing the value they bring to a company and understanding what clients expect from an agency

Topic 4: Building a Successful Billing Desk
- Intentionally reverse engineering the process by looking at what successful recruiters are doing
- Building relationships and focusing on making the best matches possible
- Importance of having a long-term mindset and not expecting results in a week

Topic 5: Understanding and Knowing Your Audience
- Focusing on the 100 or 1000 people who will resonate with your message
- Understanding own strengths and skill sets to sell oneself to potential clients
- Identifying the types of candidates or roles one enjoys working with to create momentum in career
- Leaning into strengths and identifying what drives them to find success
- Continuous learning to adapt to changes in the industry and systematize work

Topic 6: Importance of Forgiveness and Boundaries
- Having boundaries and forgiving quickly to move forward in business and coaching
- Knowing what a good recruit is and what a bad one is and communicating that effectively
- Navigating gray areas effectively

Topic: Recruitment in the Current Climate
- Enjoying Recruitment Climate, Recognizing it may be Tough for Others
- Revealing who has Good and Bad Habits
- Closing Business is Different and More Difficult than Obtaining Job Orders
- Being Successful in the Past Doesn't Necessarily Mean Success in the Present or Future
- Success Requires Putting in Work Every Day, Keeping Lean, and Leveraging Past Success to Build New Business
- Fixing Systems, Understanding what Works, and Constantly Improving Key to Success

Topic: Copywriting as a Key Skill for Recruiters
- Copywriting Helps Reach a Wider Audience and Open Doors for Business
- Focus on Adding Value and Relevance through Entertaining and Meaningful Posts
- Don't Complain, Practice Regularly, Learn from Likes and Comments
- Get a Copywriting Coach to Expedite Learning Curve

Topic: Building Effective Recruiting Teams
- Importance of Adaptability and Demonstrating Intangible Qualities
- Ability to Throw Oneself into a Role, Even with Limited Knowledge or Skill
- Soft-spoken Recruiters can be as Successful as Outspoken Recruiters, as long as they Possess Tenacity
- Building Rapport and Understanding Listeners is Important in Recruiting
- Successful Recruiters Pick up on Nuances During Phone Calls and are Able to Dig Deeper to Uncover Information
- Focus on Getting the Most Out of this Skill by Asking Questions and Following Up
- Successful Recruiters Create Systems, Take Notes, and Follow Up with People they Spoke to in the Past
- Instill this Skill in their team when Scaling

Topic: Understanding the Value of Recruiting
- Recruiters Often Don't Understand the Value they Bring to a Company
- Companies can be Nonchalant about the Hiring Process
- People are Critical to a Company's Success and Recruiters have an Integral Role in Finding the Right People
- Recruiters should Recognize the Value of Great Recruiting and Understand What Clients Expect from an Agency
- Building Confidence and Owning Self-worth is Important in Justifying a Recruiter's Fee and Standing Apart in the Industry

Topic: Becoming a Top Biller
- Reverse Engineer the Process by Looking at what Successful Recruiters are Doing and what their Day-to-Day Life Looks Like
- Building Relationships is Crucial for Success in Recruiting
- Focus on Connecting the Right People with the Right Jobs
- It Takes Time and Effort to Build a Successful Billing Desk, so Focus on Having a Long-term Mindset

Topic: Getting to Know your Audience and Focusing on Strengths
- Focus on the 100 or 1000 People who will Resonate with your Message, rather than Trying to Appeal to the Masses
- Identifying Types of Candidates or Roles you Enjoy Working with, and Focusing on Those to Create Momentum in your Career

- Leaning into Strengths and Identifying What Drives you is Key to Finding Success in Recruiting
- Continuous Learning is Essential in the Recruiting Industry for both Established and New Recruiters
- Importance of Asking for Feedback to Identify Areas of Strength or Potential Focus

Topic: Forgiveness, Boundaries, and Navigating Gray Areas
- Turning to the Bible Four Years Ago to Find Answers to Unanswered Questions
- Importance of Having Boundaries and Being Able to Forgive Quickly in Order to Move Forward in Business and Coaching
- Knowing What a Good Recruit is and What a Bad One is, and Being Able to Communicate that Effectively
- Life is Full of Gray Areas and it's Essential to be Able to Navigate Them Effectively.

Clark Willcox [00:00:00]:

Welcome to the Elite Recruiter Podcast with your host Benjamin MENA, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing mindset, money, leadership, and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:19]:

One of the biggest things that people have been reaching out to me for the Elite Recruiter podcast is and entire episode talking about business development and winning more business in 2023, keeping your pipeline full and making sure that you're making as much money as possible. I have my special guest with me, Clark Wilcox, to talk about all of that. So, Clark, definitely welcome to the podcast.

Clark Willcox [00:00:43]:

Hey, thanks, Ben. Thanks for having me, man. It's great to be on here.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:46]:

So before we get started and do a deep dive into business development, making money and winning new work, how did you even end up in this wonderful world of recruiting?

Clark Willcox [00:00:56]:

Yeah, it's kind of called recruiting in the land of misfits, and I'm no different. Maybe I'm just projecting there, but back in 2013, I was kind of just drifting away in Los Angeles doing third party telecom sales and just getting crushed, right? Trying to sell Verizon, Time Warner, all those types of services to companies, door to door on businesses, and getting clients everything else. But then the install process on the back end with those big companies was always a nightmare. I was like, man, this is brutal. I was like, there's got to be a better way or something else out there for me. But it was a great learning experience. And so I had a friend who was in sales help me put together a resume, which I had never really done up to that point, and put it on a career builder. And I had a recruiter from Airtech called me about a role that they were working on. And we just had a great conversation. The role wasn't for me, but in just having a conversation, he's like, you ever thought about being a recruiter? I was like, I don't know what that is. Tell me. And so he kind of broke it down. I still didn't quite understand what they do or what they were doing, and I was like, sure, I'll interview. And so one thing led to another, and they hired me on a few weeks later. And I started recruiting at Airtech for Skill Trades Light Industrial out in Los Angeles area. And it just from day one, it just clicked. So that's how I got into it.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:11]:

And then you went from recruiter to account manager, right?

Clark Willcox [00:02:14]:

Yeah, I got promoted about eight months, which is pretty good for kind of everyone. Airtech starts as a recruiter and then you kind of work up from there. So it just clicked. But I knew I wanted to get back into sales, so I got in the account management role about eight months later. I had a great manager myself and was just making placements and got my spread up pretty quick to ten k within five months, which was pretty solid for a new recruiter. And then just got into got into sales.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:42]:

Yeah, that's a great jump. Ten months. I think I was there for two and a half years and stayed in the recruiter seat.

Clark Willcox [00:02:51]:

Yeah, started in June, got promoted in March, and then that's when the real fun began, is getting into sales.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:58]:

And now you are the founder of the Digital Recruiter.

Clark Willcox [00:03:01]:

Yeah, I started the Digital Recruiter around September 2021. I had worked with a LinkedIn outreach agency, guess you had on Steven Perchikov built that agency and him and I worked with him to build out the recruiting wing of the Digital Recruiter. I saw what he was doing. He was doing amazing work with SaaS companies and coaches consultants. And with my background in recruiting, I was like, let's make this happen. So we started working with agencies and doing a lot of being in LinkedIn for them. And I saw the issue was there wasn't a recruiting foundation for a lot of these recruiters out in the market. And I was like, well, I got this training at Otech. I think I see a lot of the problems to help them get the most out of this. So I was like, hey, Steven, I'm going to go kind of build this thing and focus on the recruiting training. He's like, go for it. And so that's kind of how I got started in Digital Recruiters. So it's a blend of let's get the automation, the marketing, all that dialed in the digital systems, but let's also build the recruiting and sales foundation as well.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:59]:

And I know when it comes down to the sales side of the house, that is one of the biggest things that every single firm, every single company, every single recruiter you have to do. You got the fun side of the recruiting, and then the fun side should also be sales, too. But most people don't think of it that way. So let's take a few steps back now. What is the order of operations for actually getting new business?

Clark Willcox [00:04:28]:

I've been using this terminology more. I love the order of operations because there are so many things you can do every day as a recruiter and in sales. Right. But it's like, what should you be doing and when that's really we got to figure out. And what I preach is figure out who you are and who you want to be first in the market and to business, to companies. You got to figure out what do you want to accelerate, what do you want to be known for, what problems do you want to solve? And then once you understand that and there's a whole method of the madness of figuring out what that should be, given that, how long you've been recruiting, what your background, what industries you might have be coming from, kind of how to blend that together. But you got to be clear to yourself to be able to be clear to your market. Because they have to figure they have to know quickly and sometimes in 3 seconds what exact problems that you solve, what if it's relevant to them. So that's kind of that's the foundation of everything we teach in our program. It's like, what is your business? Who are you? What are you about in the business recruiting world? Because then we can start to really articulate that in marketing and sales and messaging and building out a prospecting business development plan. So that's the first step. And then from there, you can kind of figure out, okay, well, where is your market? Right? We got to be where your market is and get the right tools and just get in front of them consistently. So that's kind of where I would start with the word of operations. Okay.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:54]:

And you talked about figuring your story out. If you've never done that, how do you figure out your story and own your story?

Clark Willcox [00:06:03]:

Yeah, it's interesting, right? Because it can be so easy to figure out maybe someone else's story or learn about someone else or ask questions about recruiters. Right? Like, oh, what do you do? What's the job? What ideal role are you looking for? Looking for next? It's easy to do it to everyone else, but then we got to do it for ourselves because that's where people that don't know us, that's what they're looking to find out. Right? Like, who are you? Why should I work with you? Why should I hire you? Why should I give you a $30,000 check to find someone? It just starts with what skill sets? Like, what kind of candidates do you like talking to? What roles do you like talking on? What kind of is in your current in any of your lane? When if you like placing SDRs, focus on that, right? Why do you like placing those sales? Just articulate it, write it down, record some voice memos. I can just really fall in love with it's kind of sound weird, but with that process to figure out what drives you, because recruiting is a grind, so you might as well pick the grind that you're okay with, in a sense. Right? And I see a lot of recruiters working on stuff they hate working on. I'm like, well, why? It's just you. There are so many roles, so many industries. You kind of have your pick of the litter in a sense. I think recruiters get themselves stuck where it's like, I have to be a certain thing. I'm like, why? What do you want to be first? And it can go from if you're a project engineer, you want to place more project engineers, we'll do that and people are going to believe you. Yeah, you know the role, you know the industry. Like, I'll work with you as a recruiter because you get it. So lean into it. You're not stuck with that forever. But it's just a great starting point, right? If you're just trying to create momentum, just lean into your strengths, right? And just identifying those is a key first step, and it can be hard, and you can ask around, right. One of the questions I asked 2015, I asked a friend when I was thinking about going off on my own, what would you hire me for? What kind of roles would you? And just gauge your network and your friends and all that. And that might be a helpful way to kind of brainstorm some ideas, kind of get going in the right direction.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:13]:

I absolutely love that because it's one of the biggest things that when I'm chatting with other recruiters out there is we're so good at dissecting a role, a company onboarding, call a candidate. But we also don't understand how strong we are and the value that we've brought to the table. And I've had time and time again to just chat with recruiters. I'm like, hey, think about this. At least in the GovCon side of the house, there's 500 million dollar programs, $35 million programs. If those things get staffed up, it could be a national security issue. The company completely loses any future work within the Department of Defense. And I'm like, if you're the sole recruiter that helps staff a $125,000,000 program, own that, you brought that value to the table. So I absolutely love what you're talking about, about owning your story.

Clark Willcox [00:09:01]:

It's critical. And I think that's one of the first things, one thing that I just saw in the LinkedIn and the content and the posting and talking to so many recruiters over the last three years, I mean hundreds by now, if not thousands. And it's just they know, like, not understand the value they bring to a company. Right? People are everything in a company. Pretty much everyone agrees on that. Right? You got to have the right people. So if you're the ones making the match and finding the right people, you have an integral piece to that. And companies can be so nonchalant about, oh yeah, we have a couple of agencies, or we have recruiters working on it. They don't really take the hiring process seriously, which recruiters we all see. Right? There's plenty of complaints about that on LinkedIn and social media. Company won't do this. They won't give me feedback. But part of that is because you're not respecting what you bring to the table when you're talking about that old self worth and owning it. It's true, right, without getting too woo woo. It's very real. You buy and work with people that have confidence in what they do and really understanding you're bringing something to the table. Like you're justifying your fee because of all those conversations you're having. You know the market, you know the candidates, they're confiding in you, what they won't tell a company and all that. That's powerful. That's a huge leverage point. And just really recognizing the value of great recruiting. You might not be there right in that moment, but you have to know what you're reaching to and what companies are paying for so you have something to attain to, right, versus just looking at a commission check or being like, well, I got a LinkedIn account, so I'm a recruiter. It's like, that's step one, right? But it's like, what does the peak look like? Right? And just reverse engineering that. And a big part of that is what do clients expect from an agency and what's their current experience typically, like, have been with an agency already, and how do I stand apart from that?

Benjamin Mena [00:10:53]:

Okay, so we've got owning your story. What's the next step into breaking new accounts and getting more business?

Clark Willcox [00:11:00]:

Owning your store. Get where your market is, right? You can't fish in the desert, in a sense. That's always what's interesting. I had an agency I thought due last week that's like, why do you focus on LinkedIn? Where are your clients of candidates? Well, they're on LinkedIn. Well, that's why I focus on LinkedIn, because that's where the candidates are, right? People pay for these LinkedIn recruiter subscriptions and six figures and seven figures a year. So you're stuck on LinkedIn in a sense, right, if you're paying for those tools. But you got to get the most out of it. And not that you can't get candidates from job boards, email, cold calls. Like, all those things can work, but go where your market is, right? And for most people, if they hone in on a specialty, your candidate inclined pool is active on LinkedIn. That's where they're posting jobs. That's where they are looking for work, right? So it's like hiring managers got to go look and check for the applicants. They're checking the feed. Candidates are looking to apply their jobs there. There's what, like 14 million plus jobs post on LinkedIn at any given time. So just go where they are and own it. That's the next step.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:08]:

And after that, what else would you advise?

Clark Willcox [00:12:11]:

LinkedIn profile, right? If we talk about figure out who you are, who you serve, what problems you solve. Make it clear on your LinkedIn profile, your headline. Make everything look professional, your banner, your headshot profile picture, your about section. Talk about the wins that you've had. If you don't have wins necessarily yet, you can talk about your story, why you got into recruiting. Wins don't just have to be recruiting placements, right? It could be if you've built out teams or done internal hiring or kind of however you got in there. If you're a new recruiter with an agency, leverage the agency wins that you've had, right? Put them on there and be people want to work with winners too, right? They pay winners. So I see so many profiles, have no mention of success stories that the recruiters have had and it kind of goes into what we talked about. Right? You work on $125,000,000 project and you're that recruiter will say that a testimonial in the wind. Doesn't have to be a quote from a past client or candidate. You don't have to give away their name. You can just talk about stuff that you've actually worked on. That's huge. And I've seen adding that to the profile, add six figures in new business within three months for recruiters just because they talked about what they've done well already.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:25]:

Yeah, no, I've actually seen a few of your clients talk about that business that they've been winning based on the structure of how you've been teaching them how to make their LinkedIn post. Like a little bit of social selling.

Clark Willcox [00:13:36]:

Yeah, there's so much more to it. But that's just an easy starting place to go with it. And it's just, again, it's order of operations you're layering everything on. Start with the profile. Right. Make it easier for people to say yes, to connect with you, to reply to you, because that's a huge concern. Right? How do I improve my connection and response rate? Fix the profile, make it clear. And you don't have to do all the explaining on a phone call. The profile can do the work for you. And I always tell people that, let the profile take care of most of your messaging. Right. And then the messaging can be conversational.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:12]:

I had a recent guest on the podcast and he's had his own executive recruiting firm for 25 years. He doesn't even have a website. Everything, his entire landing page is his LinkedIn profile.

Clark Willcox [00:14:25]:

I say that all the time. I actually listened to that podcast and I kept nodding my head. Everything he was saying, it was great. Because you don't need the website. You don't need a 510 thousand dollars website to be a great recruiter. You just need to be where your market is, which is LinkedIn, and you got to show them what problem you solve, like what hiring problems you solve and how you solved it before. And that's it. I mean, I created my website for like $37 a year and a half ago. It's still running. It's not great. We're redoing the whole thing now, but I built the business without it. And then I've talked to tons of recruiters and helped tons of recruiters build up their agencies without either a website or it's all janky and it doesn't give a clear picture of who they are. And the clients don't care if you.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:09]:

Want to get laugh. Like we've done well over seven figures in our business and our website my wife actually made while drinking champagne during one episode of The Bachelor.

Clark Willcox [00:15:22]:

That's a great mad lid, but it goes to show and you're killing it. It doesn't matter. And it's easy to get all caught up with the aesthetics of everything and recruiting. But if again it goes back, if you don't know the why and the problems that you solve. That's what clients care about. That's what they pay money for, is for people that solve problems quicker and better than they can solve them themselves.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:48]:

That's what people care about and flipping gears. So 2021, 2022. I don't want to say it was easy like getting a new business, but 2023 in a lot of industries is a completely different world. And I hate to say this, it is the year where we have to get back to work.

Clark Willcox [00:16:07]:

I'm loving it. Yeah, I love this. It's tough for a lot of people, and I get that. I feel for a lot of people. But it was a facade the last couple of years, right? So it was a lot of job orders, but you really saw who actually closed business and who realized, like, getting contracts is one thing and recruiting, but closing business is a whole other deal. Even if you're unretained because you're only getting a portion on retainer, you're not getting the whole thing. You still got to qualify job orders. You still got to build relationships. You still got to get out in front of your market. Every single day this year is revealing who has the good habits and who doesn't, and the ones that don't and know that they were kind of lucky the last couple of years. And luck, you can earn your own luck, right? In a sense. So I'm not taking anything away from those recruiters. That did really well, but you got to be realistic of, okay, I just hit the tide at the right moment, and I got to put the cash away when the GN is good, and then I got to go actually fix the systems and understand what I was doing well. What needs improvement, how to leverage the success of the last couple of years. Because getting referral business and I knew a friend and this friend, and we build a million dollars with them, that's great. But that's whole different ballgame where it's like convincing someone that doesn't know you how to get them to pay you and pay those fees. And so you can leverage all the work of the last couple of years to build a great pipeline this year. And that's what I see. The ones that are making it through, that's what they're doing. They're keeping everything lean, but they're putting in the work every single day, and they're leveraging all the opportunities the last couple of years gave them to build out new business. Right. And they're not just throwing their hands up and giving up.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:51]:

Now, when you talk about doing the work, what do you actually mean?

Clark Willcox [00:17:54]:

Yeah, to simplify it, I always tell everyone in the program, like the three C's, right? It's every day I need to be connecting with people. Every day. I need to be posting content. Every day I need to be on the phones. So if I'm not doing those things, something's wrong. Those are the simplest three C's. And so if you're doing outreach and connecting and have messaging going every day, if you're posting every day and really being relevant to your market and you're on the phones every day, that's a start, right? That can fill up a lot of your day. And then it's landing on everything and it's auditing your work. I think it's just having that humility and evaluating the conversations and how to get more out of every single call. And just you got to work hard. You got to work smart. If you have systems that free up a lot of your time, well, go build something else, right? If you've mastered LinkedIn, get good at an ATS system, or start doing more out email, or start leveraging your strategy to do more like cold or warm calls, right? Or expand to another vertical. There's always something that you can be doing, in a sense. Don't make excuses. In a sense. Like if something's not working, fix it. Like fail fast and test everything and find what works. Throw away what doesn't and just keep going. There's plenty that can be done every day in recruiting.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:17]:

One of the things I do love about your content and that kind of stuff is you've gotten very good at Copywriting. And I feel like Copywriting is a thing that most recruiters, I don't want to say haven't specialized in, or I should really say good. Copywriting is something most recruiters haven't learned. And I know most recruiters are still using the same exact email template that was made in 1980 that candidates hate and calling its hate. How do you get good at Copywriting within the recruiting space?

Clark Willcox [00:19:45]:

Practice reps it's a muscle. Find someone that is good at it and learn from them. That's what I did. That's what we're trying to do for recruiters as well. You have to admit what you are really good at and what you don't know. And being able to see the power of, like, if I learned this skill, what could that do to open the doors to my business? You have to understand the value in it first before you get good at it. Because if you're just doing something because someone told you to do it, how motivated are you really going to be to keep with it? When I learned about Copywriting 2018, I was like, wow, this is really getting me to draw into the post, into the product. This is powerful. Could I do this? What could I do this with? Right? And getting good at writing. Because we're recruiters, we're talkers. So like, we can fix everything with a call and a conversation and all that. And it's like, yeah, that is one way. But you can only talk to so many people at one time, right? And so Copywriting and looking at it like, I can get the message that I want to get through in a call with a candidate and a prospect or a client prospect or hiring manager, but I can get thousands of eyeballs on it. That's the power number one of Copywriting as a recruiter, because I hear recruiters be like, well, it's taking time away if I'm writing that's not actually recruiting. Well, if you're just posting random Google Articles and memes and all that and not adding any value or relevance to your market, then yes, you probably shouldn't be posting content. It's probably going to hinder your brand. But if you're entertaining, and I would say just don't be boring, be entertaining, but to the business problems that people are facing, just adding that value, that's the first way to start. And then you can look at your headlines and how to format things and the right length of a post and the topics, and there's a whole bunch of stuff there, but you really got to wrap your head around like you're trying to get your message out of who you are. That passionate that recruiters are always talking about, like, man, if they had just talked to this candidate, if they had just not under offered or whatever or anything like that, share that with your market because people are going to resonate with that. Don't complain, but just get in there and just practice again. Just post and learn from the likes, the comments, if you get a lot of them, if you don't get a lot of them, and just get yourself in the arena first and foremost, and then coaching if you get a Copywriting coach, learn from them and implement, that'll expedite the learning curve. But the first step is like, you just got to understand why it can be important and just get yourself in the game.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:17]:

And I would just want to chime in on this. Don't be afraid to start posting and start writing. And it's okay if you don't get any likes or any really impressions. You have to start.

Clark Willcox [00:22:31]:

It's. One of the things I always say, tell people some of the posts that get the most calls booked on my calendar that turn into quality leads and clients, five likes, ten likes, 15. Typically the posts that get people to buy from you, everyone's not in their head, but no one wants to like or comment in it because you hit the nail on the head, but they don't want to admit it publicly. And so that's always what I say. I actually just messaged a recruiter this morning in our program. He's been recruiting for 30 years, and he had a wonderful post about an interaction he had with a mechanical engineer candidate. And this candidate gets 20 emails a day. She ignores all of them, but she connected with him. And he was like, Why'd you reply to me, of all people? She's like, well, you didn't try to pitch me right away. You wanted to get to know me first. And that's what we always teach recruiters. Just aim to learn your audience and get to know your audience and talk to the people that you are going to resonate with. Don't worry about the people that aren't going to resonate with you because we get so caught up in what if they don't like my message? I'm like, well, what message is going to get the right people that you do want to talk to and connect with and focus on that with your messaging and your content. And you'd be surprised. LinkedIn is full of just content. Lurkers right? The likes, the engagement, all that. I've talked to people I've worked with, influencer accounts a lot of times. It's more headache than it's worth, right? You'd rather get like, talk to the 100 people, the 1000 people that are going to resonate with your message, but those will pay all the bills. Don't focus on the millions.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:03]:

I always joke around with people when I talk about the podcast. It's like, I'll post the latest podcast link on LinkedIn and it's like two likes. But then I got to hop on the actual analytics side. I'm like, oh, right now averaging 8000 monthly downloads. And I'm like, oh, cool.

Clark Willcox [00:24:20]:

It's amazing. It's a testament to just something like you're. So you just put it out there and you're just you and I think it's clear that you're like having a good time and you're authentic about it. And you don't have to be this is the key point. You just have to show up. You don't have to be polarizing because what you're doing Ben, is enough value. And it's clearly like you're very good at what you do excellent. So you don't have to brag about it or you just talk about what you're working on. And that alone is amazing for people. There's a ton of value there and that's what I try to tell all the other recruiters in my program. Is there's enough in what you're doing day to day. You don't have to be polarizing. You don't have to talk about politics or social issues or anything else. Just talk about the problems you're solving and what you're kind of seeing. And people will resonate. The right people will resonate with you. It's a big AHA moment for a lot of because they're seeing all these people go viral and say crazy things and all that. Do I have to be that way? I'm like, no, not at all. There's a way to not be boring, but also not be. You don't have to be polarizing. You just have to be real. Because recruiting has so many dynamics and no conversation is the same and no rec is the same and candidate and everything else that there is enough uniqueness in what you're going through that can't be replicated by any other recruiter.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:42]:

Awesome. Before we jump into the next part, is there any advice or any other things that you want to talk about on the business development. Side of the house and winning new work and keeping your pipeline full.

Clark Willcox [00:25:51]:

Focus on the prospect in everything you do and catch yourself when you're speaking I statements, when you're pitching your company, no one cares. No one cares until they really talk to you and they start to kind of get to know you. Like, focus on them. Open ended questions. Dig into the conversation. Don't be afraid of your inbox. That's why I always tell people, don't try to jump on a call with everyone. Immediately embrace the conversation in the inbox and you will have a much higher rate of quality calls. Much higher rate. Just embrace just getting to know someone. And yeah, it can feel like some work, but the quality is going to be there. And that's really what you want, is the quality. Because I know recruiters that have 100 signed contracts and it means nothing to them because they hate their life. They're running around, they're not feeling like a valued partner. And the way to do that is just to give and serve. And you got to have boundaries, right? You got to know what you stand for and everything else. But you also have to be able to just ask open ended questions and listen and then trust your recruiting knowledge, experience, instincts to take that conversation in the right way. And you don't have to over promise. You can be just casual and people, if you give them the forum, they will tell you everything you need to know. And just get comfortable with that. Stop trying to control every part of the process. Just get comfortable and open in the conversation.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:20]:

Now, I want to kind of talk about the you mentioned about somebody that you know that has 100 Son contracts. Almost every single top biller that has come on the podcast, that $500 to $1.5 million a year. They're not spread thin with 100 different contracts. They've gone deep on what we call like, quality accounts.

Clark Willcox [00:27:42]:

Yeah, it's everything. Now, does it take work to get there? Yeah, it does, right? And it takes you have to be intentional. You have to take a step back and reverse engineer all those top billers. Typically, they reverse engineer, like, what do they want their life to look like and their work day and their day to day? And I thought that's what Michael Cox's story was so powerful because he had that infrastructure set up. So when some crazy hurdles came his way, he had those relationships to fall back on. And that's what everyone talks about, right? You talk to elderly people, what do they say? It's relationships are the things that matter. And get good at building relationships. If you're not good at it, don't understand. That should be your main focus if you're a recruiter. And how to build Rapport, how to build Rapport quickly and get people to buy in and to confide in you and to know that it's about them they're the ones changing jobs. They're the ones hiring, and they're going to be training this employee. You're just connecting the dots. It's not about you. All those top builders have recognized that they're just trying to help bridge the communication, and they're handling the logistics. And people know that they have their back, that they're going to come through, and that they're trying to make the best match possible. And if you do that, if you have five clients at all times that you're doing that with, which is not a crazy number, each of them can give you, what, 100, 300,000 a billing every year? That's how you get your 500,000 to 1.5 million for a billing desk. That's it. And you can reach out to hundreds of people per week on LinkedIn at impact with content and everything else. So if you reverse engineer that, it gives you more time to just focus on getting better, building relationships, and really always being able to show up in a timely manner. That's what they're all doing. They just put in the legwork on the front end, and they didn't expect results in a week. They're like, I'm building this business for 3510 years out. Right? Like that's. That's the key.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:40]:

Now I'm excited about flipping over the next part of our conversation. The quick fire questions.

Clark Willcox [00:29:46]:

Let's do it.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:46]:

So what advice would you give to a brand new recruiter that's just starting off in the recruiting industry in 2023?

Clark Willcox [00:29:56]:

Get your reps as soon as possible. Be just on the phones all the time. Figure everything out about your market, right? If you kind of identify the market you want to get at. And it doesn't have to be super niche down in the beginning, but set up a system, it can be lean and mean, right? You only need a couple of tools that can cost you $200 a month to supercharge your outreach on LinkedIn and just get on the phone with everyone. It doesn't matter if you don't have any wrecks to work on. There's so many other ways that you can add value to a candidate or a client beyond just like, hey, I have the perfect role for you, right? Give them resume feedback, LinkedIn feedback, how to present themselves the best way possible to companies, all the other things, and just learn, dig in, ask open ended questions, and get on the phone, talk to 30, 40, 50 people a week, and then start to kind of narrow it down. Okay, who of this do I vibe with that's really looking that's ready to make a move right now? I understand why they're looking to move all those things, right? And then work with the people that are most urgently looking to move and then put them in front of clients, post content about it. Kind of use the candidates to leverage bringing in more business, right? If you're just kind of starting from scratch. But you got to get on the phones as much as possible, first and foremost.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:16]:

Yeah, and I love that you say that, because I think that's one of the fear that a lot of new recruiters have is the phone. The scary thing in the corner of your desk.

Clark Willcox [00:31:26]:

People are surprised when they hear me see that, because, like, oh, you're the digital guy. You want to automate and do everything socially and not talk to people. I'm like, no, I want to systemize the top of the funnel so I can have more quality conversations. I want every call I have every single day to make sense for both parties, myself and the other party, it's just like, yep, we know why we're here, and this is a really valuable use of our time, and it's really easy to give away your time without meaning to in recruiting and in coaching. And so in the beginning, just get on the phone so you can kind of figure out what that schedule looks like and what conversations do make sense for you to have more of. And it becomes pretty obvious pretty quickly, like, who you should be talking to more of and who you shouldn't. And that's okay. It doesn't mean either party is bad. It's just being real with yourself. Like, okay, I should be talking to software developers all day, every day. Great. You hone in on that, and you do that through a bunch of phone calls, and that's great. It just makes it more refined. So once you refine it, you can then be consistent.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:24]:

I absolutely love that same question, but for experienced recruiters, what advice would you give them to be successful and keep on seeing success?

Clark Willcox [00:32:32]:

Never stop learning. You can always learn. I love the recruiters that are my program that have been doing this 30 years, and they're just like, I got to learn the digital stuff. And they're so good at recruiting. I mean, they were doing this when they had the fax resumes over and everything else, and they're just like, I'll figure out sales navigator. I'll figure out chat GPT. Throw it at me, right, and learn. And I'm here to learn from you, right? Someone that's 20 years younger than them and just like, teach me. I teach me what you know, and I want to incorporate it to what I already do really well. I love that. It's such a good attitude. I think it keeps people young, in a sense, just to always challenge your brain. It's like, hey, I've had a great success, but how can I leverage what I know and maybe make my life a little easier, spend more time with family and kind of do more of the things that matter to me and as things kind of change. So I see people set up outreach systems and post content and candidates in a really tough market to get a hold of. Like, they're reaching back out, and they're increasing their response rate and they're like, oh, I can breathe, I can go on vacation and know that I have things working for me and I have content scheduled out and it's just so nice. I love that for experienced recruiters, they're the ones because they have such the body of work already, they get such good results so quick and working with us because sometimes they think like oh, what can you teach me? I already know. Recruiting, it's like this is communication the people business, right? It's human nature. If it was easy, all relationship, there'd be no divorces or anything like that, right? It's hard. You got to keep up and culture changes in society and the economy and everything else. You always got to be learning and invested and have a kind of year to the ground. And so if you're an experienced recruiter, just don't rest on your aurals, just always look to how can you leverage the great work that you're doing into making parts of your business just easier and systemize them a little bit more to kind of always do more. And that could be whether you're a lifestyle recruiter business or when you're trying to scale up, right, and become 100 million dollar agency.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:34]:

I'm not going to lie, some of that systematizing stuff, we've been able to just on a whim take multiple trips to France because of that setup.

Clark Willcox [00:34:44]:

It's amazing, right? Because you have the confidence, right? I built this program, I got married, we're on a honeymoon, told us we're having a kid in any time now. All those things as I built a business from the ground up because I had the right systems and it's huge. It's an absolute game changer. And if you haven't really experienced that for yourself, you owe it to yourself because the other side is wonderful.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:12]:

All right, is there a book that's had a huge impact on your career?

Clark Willcox [00:35:15]:

Yeah, it's an interesting question and my answer is the Bible. I didn't start reading until about four years ago and it just tied together so many things in my life and so many just unanswered questions. And what's been really interesting to me and I think the way it ties to recruiting is there's a couple of lines in the New Testament Jesus talks about, he goes, I didn't come to bring peace on earth, I came to bring a sword. Right? But he also says forgive your brother 70 times. 70 times. And to me, the way that it applies to recruiting and where it helped me build a business and start posting on social media is I have to have boundaries in my life first and foremost, especially in recruiting with prospects, clients, internal employees. But you also have to be able to quickly let go and not hold on to resentment, right? You have to be able to forgive fast and forgive for yourself. Because then I read all these other business books and all that, they take a lot of themes from this, and it just helped articulate kind of what I was feeling. It's like, okay, I got to have boundaries, but I also got to kind of lead with love in a sense, and forgiveness, but be able to forgive quick and move forward, especially in recruiting and coaching. It's critical. Right. I don't have time or energy to hold on to the negativity or resentment, but we also got to know what a good wreck is and what a bad wreck is and be able to communicate that at the same time. Right. We got to know when someone is a fit with our team and so when they're not a fit with our team, it doesn't have to come from a negative place or trying to build confrontation, but just know, like, you got to be able to swim in the gray area, right? And life is full of gray areas. There's not as much black and white as we're led to believe that just reading it, it just crystallized all that stuff for me.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:05]:

Do you have a favorite tech tool at the moment?

Clark Willcox [00:37:09]:

I mean, Chachi PT is fun, but my favorite tool is and always will be, I think, Sales Navigator. I love it. It's an imperfect tool, so I love to learn it and make it work for me and for for our clients. You know, if people use all the LinkedIn tools and and you can come to us, we're using any tool but for the price point. And if you add some automation tools, it's an absolute game changer for business. Building connections, getting out in front of your market, building your ecosystem quickly. It's $99 a month, and it's a game changer. And you can use really any, say, LinkedIn automation tool, whatever in combination with it, and it's an amazing way to build your network quickly. Chat should be tease fun, but that's a whole other conversation.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:58]:

You've been in the recruiting desk. You've been in the account manager desk. You're now in the coaching desk. You're talking to recruiters on a daily basis. What do you see in the future of recruiting?

Clark Willcox [00:38:12]:

I'm really bullish on the future of recruiting for the people that know how to build rapport and build relationships and maintain those because the tech tools are making great recruiters and the super recruiters, but they're also thinning the hurt a little in terms of the recruiters that are more transactional focused, whether on purpose or not. I think it's making people wake up and be like, well, what value do I really bring as a recruiter? What we talked about at the beginning and the ones that figure that out and know where they can use certain tech tools and AI to make everything all kind of the tedious parts of the business quicker, but still have everything funneled to building the relationship, talking to the right people, giving feedback in a timely manner, good or not so good, right? That's going to be huge. And I do see more of and especially with COVID and working remote and all that, companies, there are some real battles and I think the recruiters that can kind of lead the way for companies and candidates. I get that a lot has changed, but this is what the goal we have to work towards. We have to clean up the interview process. You have to deal with the salary and the inflation and all that question. You have to deal with the schedule. Let's figure it out together. If you can have that plus right tools, those are the recruiters and recruiting processes that are going to win and they'll be better than they've ever been. Awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:45]:

Now you've dealt with a lot of high level billers and a lot of search firm owners. What does it take to be a top level biller or a top level search firm owner?

Clark Willcox [00:39:56]:

Again, building that rapport, right? Understanding people listening. You got to work hard. But I've seen a lot of unsuccessful recruiters that work hard, right. Busy doesn't mean productivity. And so you're going to work hard in recruiting no matter what. But the ones that really get it, they can pick up the nuance on a phone call and they know how to just dig, whether it's with clients or candidates. It's just like they pick up on something that doesn't sound right and they don't let it go away, right. They dig in on that. That's the skill that's like the either you got it or you don't got it in recruiting and everything, tech content, everything, all that stuff should be centered around like getting the most out of that skill and just picking up on things of like, wait, is that really the salary someone wants? Is that really the role? Are they taking it? Are they taking that role just so they can look for something else and they can just pay the bills right now, all those things and are they really looking to hire someone or they just need to have a job posted or is it a nice to have right. That's what they have in spades. And they do a really good job creating systems, taking notes, being able to follow back up on people they talked to six months ago and incorporating that skill. So they have enough of those systems and then they're able, as they're scaling their team, they're able to instill that in their team and pick the recruiters and find the right people that have that. And that's what I see as the difference. It's that nuance on the call to be able to call it out in the moment and then if you can figure out it's trained and scale that you're golden.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:34]:

Actually, it kind of opens up. Another question I want to have for you is when it comes to scaling your team and scaling your firm, do you have any advice?

Clark Willcox [00:41:42]:

I don't know if we have enough time for all that. But I have plenty, I have plenty of thoughts on that. It's one of my favorite questions because I've been seeing it and we've had some of our clients ask us for help in building out their team. So we've made placements in the last year for some of our clients, like recruiter to recruiter. And these systems have completely changed what I recommend people looking for in an agency recruiter, because you have the systems, I can help build someone's book of business, candidate or client side much quicker with some of the tools and the social selling and everything that we can teach. So it really is just look for someone that gets it that can kind of adapt on the fly, you'll know, within a month or two, right? You shadow their screening calls, their sourcing, kind of how they're thinking about it, if they get it or they don't get it. And you got to be able to kind of cut the core quick on someone that doesn't. But you're looking more for the intangibles. Do they listen? Do they learn from their mistakes quickly? Because that's recruiting, we're going to make a ton of mistakes or I forgot to ask that question. Or do this, we've got to follow back up and all that. But do they learn quickly or do they make excuses? So look for that every step of the interview process when you're doing outreach, do they understand the potential in this role? They do it the right way. Are they quick to outsource blame? And you can pick that up in interviewing. And kind of in the first few weeks what I've seen with the recruiters that worked out that once we placed, they took the system but they ran with it and they're like, great, I don't have to spend all this time sourcing. I can systemize that. I'm on the phones all the time. I'm just going to go crazy with submittals until my manager tells me, says, no, this is a good submittal, this is a bad one, okay, I'm going to do all good ones. And then same thing with interviews. And it's just like you just go in attack mode, right? And I love recruiters that way. They're just going to throw stuff at the wall and refine it from there. That's the trait you're looking for in a recruiter because you can build the rest of the systems. You can get them on the phones with candidates way quicker nowadays, build a social brand. But those are the ones that really have success. You're just looking for that tenacity and it has nothing to do I've seen some of the best recruiters be super soft spoken, but they're just tenacious, right? So just pick up on you're looking for that because the rest of the stuff, you can get them the reps quick, but you can't trade that.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:01]:

This is actually one of my favorite questions. Like everything that you know, now you've learned, you've experienced. If you can go back and talk to Clark when he first started his recruiting career, what would you tell yourself?

Clark Willcox [00:44:13]:

Yeah, take care of yourself first, every day. Make sure that you're good because recruiting is easy to worry about everyone else, and then your stuff falters. And it's really hard to take care of other people if you're not in a good spot. Right. And I think just taking care of yourself mentally, physically, spiritually, prioritizing that the best version of you is the best version of serving others. And I talk about that with recruiters all the time. I'm like, if you're working on a bad wreck, speak up, tell your manager, tell the client, figure out a way to talk about if you're just going to waste your time and spin your wheels, you're going to get demoralized, you're going to not feel good about yourself. Right? So take care of yourself, know your boundaries, and those things can change, but you got to figure that out first. So you can really help clients, candidates. And it's a battle, and it's been a battle for me for years. Kind of just articulating some of that, but when I've leaned into it, it's made everything better. And that's what I would told myself ten years ago. Don't ever stray away from that, because doing that will let you be the best version of yourself for other people.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:28]:

Is there anything else that you would love to share the listeners before we let you go?

Clark Willcox [00:45:32]:

Man, there's a ton I could share. We've done a lot of talking. This has been great. I think the one last thing, we all taking care of yourself. This is a grind. Have fun with it. Celebrate the wins. There's not always too many, but just have a good time, have gratitude, really be able to take a step back at the time. I'm talking to myself when I talk about when I post things or say stuff, it's just like, make sure there's a lot of good stuff in this life. There's a lot of darkness. But if you can just focus on being the light and just like, what can you bring to the table? Right? And you can always control what you bring to the table. Being the light and making someone's day, just hearing them out and all that stuff. I think being the light and all this craziness is super powerful and it's brought me more focusing on that has brought me more blessings than I could ever count. Right. Just kind of like just not waiting around for someone else to kind of bring the good energy, just like bring it yourself. And people resonate with that, and it covers up a lot of mistakes and it gives you a lot of goodwill.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:45]:

Now, for people that want to get in touch with you, what's the best way to reach you?

Clark Willcox [00:46:49]:

Yeah, I mean, reach out to me on LinkedIn shoot me a message. I'm very active on there. If you got any questions, feel free to book a call. If you're interested in the program, I got my calendar link on my LinkedIn profile. We could certainly talk about that. Or if you just have kind of questions in general, shoot me a message on LinkedIn or email me. I'm sure I have my email somewhere on here, but it's Clark at Digitalrecruiter IO. But yeah, reach out anytime. Obviously, I'm in the people business, so I'd love to hear from you. Yeah, awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:47:17]:

I'll have your LinkedIn profile in the show notes and also in the show notes. Also have the you can sign up for the Recruiter podcast newsletter so you know when things actually come out, rather than me just quietly posting things on LinkedIn.

Clark Willcox [00:47:30]:

Absolutely. I love that.

Benjamin Mena [00:47:32]:

Awesome. Well, Clark, definitely thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Business Development 2023 is one of the most important topics that I have been asked about, talking about. So thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, your wisdom, and how to level yourself up this year.

Clark Willcox [00:47:47]:

Ben, I appreciate you, man. You're awesome. This has been super fun. So thanks for having me.

Benjamin Mena [00:47:52]:

Awesome. And to the listeners, until next time, guys.

Clark Willcox [00:47:55]:

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast with Benjamin MENA. If you enjoyed, hit subscribe and leave a rating.