Talent Management and The Future of Work with Michael Solomon, Co-Founder of 10x Management

Intro [00:00:00]:

Welcome to the elite recruiter podcast with your host Benjamin Mena, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership, and placements.

Benjamin [00:00:19]:

I'm excited about this episode of the elite recruiter podcast. I have my guest, Michael Sullivan, who's the founder of 10x Management. And the reason why I'm excited about bringing Michael into the podcast, music artists, they have managers that take care of them and do an incredible job helping them guide them through the career process. Awesome. On the recruiting side, mostly think of recruiting as just like contract recruiting or direct placement. Michael and his team have taken thanks to the absolute next level. in terms of customer service, in terms of growth, and helping their clients win by taking the music industry's talent management thought process, what they did over there, and they have taken it over to the tech world. And on top of that, he actually wrote a book called game changer, how to be 10 x in the town economy. I read it shortly after it came out, and I absolutely loved it. I highly recommend picking up the book, and you'll enjoy it as much as I did. So, Michael, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much. I think I should probably leave now because I'm just gonna ruin everybody's impression that you just gave. So -- Well, I I like to get started. And the normal the question is is, like, how you got started in the recruiting but I wanna backtrack that a little bit and how you got started in the music space and how that turned into recruiting. Oh, boy. That's going way back. So when I was in college

Michael Solomon [00:01:40]:

I started dating somebody whose parent was in the music industry who at the time and for 40 some odd years co managed Bruce Springsteen I got to go on the road with Bruce, and I got to see the music industry from the most incredible vantage point seeing a true 10 xer, both Bruce and all of the people around him on that team. And that was sort of my beginning to this. And After seeing the artist manager relationship, I wanted that so that we set out and and started an artist management company that is now, I think, twenty eight years old Our biggest most notable success would be John Mayer. We currently work and have worked with for a decade Vanessa Carlton and William Fitzsimmons, and Cherry Pop and Daddy's to name just a few. And when the music industry was disrupted in the early 2000, we got a little nervous. We didn't stop doing that since we still do it, but we thought maybe we need to do something else. And lo and behold, the idea came around of who are the new rock stars. and its high level freelance tech talent that really was both not interested, and in in some cases, good at the business side. And when we went out to do this, we got a very positive reaction. That is talk about crazy. Like, the structured music industry

Benjamin [00:02:56]:

I I don't wanna say, like, you're quite disrupting the recruiting space, but I think the idea of what you're doing can really level up the entire community. And help us all recruiters really just up our game. Now when you come to Tech Talent Management, what does that actually mean?

Michael Solomon [00:03:10]:

So the easiest way to put it is we modeled ourselves after a talent agency. So in our in our internal vernacular, this is not how it's how it's to the external world. Our clients are the tech talent. The people who hire them are their customers, but that's how we think about it so that We've aligned ourselves with the talent, and we get a percentage of what they get. And there are there are other people who have that ish model But for the most part, the people in the industry, and this was sort of the the innovation was the business model. Most people in the industry try and sell someone for, arguably, $200 an hour. And then if they can pay them $50 an hour and keep the spread, great, except that that doesn't make that talent feel very aligned to that company when they find out that they're doing all the work, 8 hours a day, and someone's getting three quarters of the money. And that does happen. We've we solve that problem by saying we wanna be partnered with you, and we wanna be in business with you, and we wanna have long term relationships. We don't take people who are Looking to freelance between engagements, we we look for people who like this lifestyle. And it's been a really good fit because they they they don't they're not interested in what we do. And we can allow them to sort of pain free freelance and hopefully

Benjamin [00:04:24]:

spend more time doing things that they love, which might include the freelancing, but it might include other things. And I know I know, like, when it comes to talent that you're working with. I I do remember one of the examples that you used in the book is there is a team that had something like 23 or 26 different software developers on there. and they needed help getting their software up and running and changed over. And your talent, I think you guys brought in three people that outwork the 26 people.

Michael Solomon [00:04:50]:

Yeah. Then the it was I think it was 33 people, and we we brought in 3 who rebuilt it. And then that team has grown to about 6 or 7. but it is now 6 or 7 people that are completely new product from, you know, built from scratch that's much more modern and has more features, and it's been going great. And that's sort of the story of what a great team of people can do who are really high level and really committed and love working on what they're working on. And that's part of what you can deliver with freelancers. Not every day. They don't all you know? No one I don't know any software engineers who got up this morning. saying I'm really excited to go build an insurance product. But there are people who love the work that they're doing even if they don't love the product they're building.

Benjamin [00:05:34]:

And in the book and, like, some of the things that you've talked about in other interviews is you guys only focus on what you what you call 10 x talent. You're not trying to bring everybody. You're not just trying to, you know, fill in a gap with a person. It's a certain level of individual.

Michael Solomon [00:05:52]:

How do you go about even finding those individuals to start off with? It's a great question. It's particularly great question since I'm not technical, and how would I know who what is a 10 x talent. So it it all started with our cofounder who had this concept. And at the beginning, he was actually screening. He was just an engineer. He is an engineer, and he was screening people originally. But, ultimately, what we figured out is once we built a small network, of great talented people, they wanna keep that network great and strong. So we actually use our existing talent to screen the new talent. and they have no financial incentive for doing that. They do it because they wanna make sure that other people who are gonna be carrying our name are up to the standards that we have. And I'm not gonna tell you it's perfect. We've had people who have gotten in the door who shouldn't have. But at 10 years of doing this, it's very, very rare, and we feel really good about the way that we the way that we do this.

Benjamin [00:06:45]:

I love that. It's all referral based.

Michael Solomon [00:06:49]:

Yeah. Because of what you guys are doing with and taking care of those people. Yeah. And I think the other piece of this was because our business model flipped things around. As soon as we set up shop, talent came running, and we have a waiting list of talent that I haven't even looked at it. It's in the thousands of people who would like to be represented by us because they understand that when we're partnered like, we're partnered. We're not We don't have an ulterior motive, and that's really nice. And then on the flip side, when we have to provide service to customers, of course, we wanna make sure that goes well. And we try and use just as much skill and expertise to make sure those engagements are good, and most importantly, not all engagements are gonna be good, that when something's gonna go wrong that you see it far out ahead when you can course correct and adjust and and figure out how to how to solve problems.

Benjamin [00:07:40]:

Do you run into the challenges of some of your clients thinking that they're dealing with a typical recruiting firm? versus a talent management firm? Yes.

Michael Solomon [00:07:49]:

There's a lot of you know, sometimes we get people companies saying, we don't work with agencies. And it's like, I I understand when you work with us and you sign a contract, you're signing it with the person who's doing the work. We're we're we're in the middle helping facilitate the transaction. but you're not signing it with us. And I think that there are a lot of people who don't understand the nuance. There there people are very quick to be like, oh, you're staffing. Yes. But that's not the business model. Now when it comes to actually, they like, when you guys founded this and I know you guys use your music background, but why did you guys choose talent management versus recruiting? It's what we knew. I mean, I I I I mean, honestly, I'm still not an and recruiting. I mean, we've we had this company for 10 years. I've learned a lot, but I I've I know a lot about talent management and, like, attracting, securing, retaining, managing great talent. I don't know a lot about recruiting. No. I just I love that. Disrupting the space as you figure it out. Yeah. Exactly. I mean and and and, like, I'm not really kidding. I mean, I really don't know. Just to give you a a funny example, of course, we figured this out over time, but we didn't know it was customary when we started this, that contingent talent, if it if they get stolen away from you, you get a fee. Like, we didn't have that day 1. We had that day 3, but we didn't have it day 1. So we're we're we're we learned as we went. I think every new company kinda learns a few of those lessons -- Yeah. -- especially if you didn't have that in the in the fee agreement. Like, oh, wait. I found the perfect person. Hired them for 2 like, 2 days, and and stolen, and we're like, oh, that's not that's not that's not good. We don't like that. That doesn't work with our business model. So -- One of the the things I'm also excited to talk to you about is Really just the future of work.

Benjamin [00:09:31]:

Like, you work with some of the the greatest tech talent out there. You've supported some amazing organizations that are going through paradigm shifts. I feel like in the past few years, we've gone through a massive work paradigm shift with COVID and now artificial intelligence. So

Michael Solomon [00:09:48]:

Do you have any thoughts on the future of work? Yeah. How much time do you have? So I guess I'll start with when when we published the book, it was right before COVID, and right before or right around GPT 3 being released. So there was very little ability to comment on it yet. What COVID did and what we talked I mean, if I'm honest, a a part of the reason we wrote the book was to help companies understand that if you wanna work with this great talent, you have to treat them a little differently, and remote work is something that they really, really, really care about. So that we were talking about that in the book, And then, of course, the world changed, sort of 10 years of change in 10 months. And and lo and behold, remote work became a thing. What's really interesting right now is there's this real push and pull going on as we speak even at Tech Companies about about their desire for management, for return to office, and the and the resistance from high the the high level talent. And and this battle is gonna play out for a while. But I'm telling you, there's no doubt in my mind. The best people who have choices, they're gonna get to work remotely. It's good. That's just where this is gonna land because They want it. I actually read something this morning that said people would be willing to take 20% less compensation to work remotely or have at least to have unlimited flexibility. So that's gonna be an interesting one. That one's a little bit more contained to me. The AI piece is a little terrifying. We we we talk a lot about that in the book, and we predicted and we actually put up a website that we've even since taken down. about the about the future of AI, the future of job loss, and what are we gonna do as a society as it relates to 2 very specific problems? What do people do with their time, talent, and energy when there's no longer jobs? And, of course, how do they support themselves? I would probably put those in reverse order of importance, but They're both really big existential questions. And I don't think we're anywhere remotely near having the answers. except that we're now very, very near needing them. And I'm a little terrified. I think that once we get through the transition, it's gonna be great. But that transition could be very painful and disruptive.

Benjamin [00:12:03]:

Out of curiosity, how long do you think that transition is gonna last?

Michael Solomon [00:12:07]:

How long will the transition last? 30 years? Okay. 20 years? Something like that. But I think -- And starting now. I mean, McKinsey released a report a couple years ago, and they predicted that it was gonna be between, like, 2035-2075. And that it would and they would impact 50 percent of jobs. They updated it this week, and they said 2 thirds of all jobs will be or 2 thirds of all job functions will be automatable, and we're moving it up to 2030, and and they shortened the the time horizon that it'll happen faster. So it's big in 2 1030, which still in in a lot of our minds, sounds like a long it's 5 years, five and a half years from now. I mean, it's it's Sorry. It's six and a half years from now, but it very soon. It'll happen sooner than we know. And

Benjamin [00:12:56]:

one of the things I I know personally, I'm in. I an AI bubble where everybody that I know is playing with it. Everybody I know is using it. Everybody I know is, like, using it to really leverage their time, effort, output, and energy. But I think there's a recent study that only 15% of people have ever even typed in something into chat JPT.

Michael Solomon [00:13:15]:

For those that are not using AI, like, what advice would you give them? I actually have this conversation fairly regularly, and I can tell when I talk to somebody, about it whether they've used it or not. It it comes it's very clear it's it's it's super clear that they haven't used it because You just have this wow factor once you see it, and I'm not saying it's all good. Like, don't get me wrong. My my my awe is not like, oh, this is perfect, and this is great for society. It's just awe. This exists. Holy crap. This is a quantum leap from where we were. I really would say to everybody who hasn't played with it. If you don't spend 15 minutes trying to have a conversation with it about any topic. You're really, really, really missing out on what's going to be the biggest change on our civilization in in my lifetime, and I'm older than probably a lot of girl listeners.

Benjamin [00:14:09]:

Well and that kinda goes into the next play. Like, how do you stay ahead of the AI game when it's gonna automate so many functions or so many jobs. How do you keep yourself professionally

Michael Solomon [00:14:20]:

ahead? That's really part of what we were attempting to cover in the book, which is your human skills, the things that make you uniquely human, are be gonna become more and more important. And There are going to be top talent in every field who are going to still need to do things because they may they may be using a lot of AI to do it with them, they're the ones who know how to put things together. So just use software engineering, which is my world, I think that a lot of engineers would tell you, I don't need the 10 junior engineers I used to need anymore because I can have AI do all of that. And I still need one senior engineer to help me put it all together and make sure it's working the way it's supposed to. and that's sort of the shift that I think we're gonna see in in many fields, but you still need the senior person. And somebody still needs to manage and hire that senior person and attract them and retain them. And that is one of the places where I feel, and this is really what the book speaks to and how it relates to the people who who listen to the show. is what are the these are the skills of of how you're gonna need to be excellent and managing excellent people and attracting excellent people. And what is it It's not just the skills, but what do they care about? In order to in order to be able to get someone to come join your company or even come interview at your company, let alone take a job and stay, you kinda need to know what makes them tick. And because we've had this really unique perspective of working with talent across so many different fields from musicians to music writers and producers, entrepreneurs, software engineers, I mean, directors. We've we've really, like, gotten The only thing we really haven't done at all is athletes. But seeing what what top talent really cares about, there's a through line. And that's really easy once you understand it. to sort of speak their language and give them what they need. And I think that when you're someone who can work that way with the best of the best, you're gonna be in demand.

Benjamin [00:16:13]:

So it kind of flips into my my next question to kind of talking about how do you become a go from a how do you become a 10 xer? And I know in the book you talked about being a 2 xer or a 5 xer or a 10 xer, but what does it take to become a 10 xer, and how do you become one if you are not one yet?

Michael Solomon [00:16:30]:

So there are people who are just better at what whatever it is. There's there's some talent agent who's there's probably many talent agents who works so much better than I am at what I do. But the first thing is having the humility and say and and saying, I have room to grow. I have room to get better. So I think that one of the qualities of 10 xers is that they're they're they're humble, and they have humility, and they're willing to look at what are their strengths and weaknesses -- with curiosity rather than fear, and then they can go attack that and continue to improve. Because the the the only thing we know about the future of work that we don't know what the future of work is gonna be and that you're gonna need to keep changing. Like, I'm giving you predictions. I I don't I don't know. Nobody knows. But I'm giving you my best thoughts, but we do know that you're gonna keep growing and adapting. And that is the the way that you've come the way that you're a 10 xer is you're always learning. You're always growing. You're always looking for the feedback. I mean, How many people do you work with? How many of the people who are listening are really comfortable being like, no. Give it to me straight. How to how could I have done that better? all the time, like, in everything you do being open to, how did I mess that up? Like, what what what would have gotten me a better outcome When you go through your whole experience that way, you're just in a continuous cycle of improvement. So if you're not a 10 xer to begin with, That's one of the ways to keep getting there. And I think that the the tech talent that I work with completely exhibit that.

Benjamin [00:17:57]:

And I I know that's one of the things that you guys kind of also look for. Right? When it comes to actually hiring the tech talent, and I was really amazed by some of the example that you have that you guys have actually gotten rid of people. If they weren't open to I don't wanna say criticism, but open to change and open to, like, advice.

Michael Solomon [00:18:15]:

Yes. We we talk about something called the sabotage impulse, and the idea here is there are people for whom that feedback that we just talked about is so I mean, I'm gonna get into the psychology for a second, but is so counter to what their ego and what their psyche needs that they avoided at all costs. And if it if they encounter it, their way of of dealing with it is to deflect it and blame others and you know, sometime I mean, the at extremes, they'll lie about it. But but even we we call them blame throwers. It's just it's never their responsibility, and that you're in the room, you just don't know when it's gonna be like, well, he got me, you know, this thing. And those are the people for whom you can't like, there's no managing them to be better because they're not willing to accept that there's room to be better. And so we talk a lot about the need when you when you encounter somebody like that, that you have to get rid of them and you have to do it quickly because beyond their own performance, which is usually not great, They can really ruin a culture. People feel like they have to duck and cover when when someone's around, especially for things they didn't do, and they're getting away with it. Not a good not good for your culture.

Benjamin [00:19:29]:

Absolutely not. So and that kind of goes into the next question I have. As a company, I and as a definitely coming from you as a founder. How do you create an environment for a to become a 10 x company?

Michael Solomon [00:19:41]:

It's it's really about the same idea of being open and curious and saying, alright. We have a way of doing things. Are there any what can we do to make it better? What would be better? What would be better for the people we serve? What would be better for us? What would you know, in in our case, we have a 2 sided it's it's we're not a marketplace, but we have 2 stakeholders. We have what? 3, if you can include us. We have ourselves. We have the clients, the talent, and then we have the customers who hire them. And we look at all of those in say, how can it be better? Like, what what can we do to make it better? And it's that continuous cycle of improvement with a real openness and curiosity and no fear that allows you to advance that. But that also means, as a manager, helping your or as a leader helping your your team see what are the things that are getting in their way. Sometimes that's helping seeing somebody there on the wrong career path. Like, if somebody's in the wrong like, if somebody's just in the wrong job, like, helping them find their way to the right job is the first step. So I think it's really looking around. But during the pandemic, we we started doing meditation on Zoom a couple times a week. We started doing much more frequent check ins with people to make sure they were okay. It's really important to sort of remember that humans are machines, and if you don't service all the parts of the human machine, you're not gonna get a good result. So one of the things that we encourage in the book is you don't have to you shouldn't get into people's personal lives, but you have to be aware of them. And you have to have consideration Somebody's moving or going through a divorce or having a problem with a child or whatever it is, it doesn't mean you don't hold them accountable to the things they need to be accountable for, but you can do it with understanding and empathy and be helpful and create an alliance where you're working toward the same thing rather than creating either fear, anxiety, you know, there's just there's it's so easy to make people feel heard and connected and cared for if you care about doing that. And that's not the old school management approach. Have it on my desk at 3 o'clock or you're fired would not have been an unlikely thing to hear watching mad men. Right? It probably did hear it. That was the way it was.

Benjamin [00:21:59]:

Top talent won't tolerate. And that that goes kind of into my next question. You're a leader looking at hiring somebody. How do you attract this kind of 10x talent?

Michael Solomon [00:22:13]:

I think it's actually a lot of the things that we just talked about. It's having the culture, making sure that you have a way of communicating what your culture is, and we could you know, I've been talking about engineering, but we could talk we could tailor this to any any kind of company. If you're a doctor's office and you need to hire, you know, an office manager. I don't know. Do you want somebody who's really, really, really, really focused on having everything run on time versus somebody who's really focused on customer service and making sure people have a good experience. I know everybody would say I want both. But if you prioritize those things, you're more likely to be hiring the right person because that's not necessarily the same person. You're gonna have people who are stronger and weaker in those 2 attributes. So starting out with knowing really, like, what's what do we want? And then hiring for that

Benjamin [00:23:02]:

is I think the the place where this where this goes. I didn't fully answer your question, but I think I got close. No. You definitely got there. And thank you for that. So wanna jump into our quick fire question. before I do, is there anything else that you would love to share about the book or about, you know, 10 x or

Michael Solomon [00:23:18]:

anything else? No. I was just gonna say given the of my answers, what makes you think I can do quick fire question.

Benjamin [00:23:25]:

I'm upset. And when it comes to quick fire questions, like, they don't have to be, like, 5 second answers. Like, it's just It's the the next part of the podcast. So working with you working with the talent agents, working with recruiters. For somebody that's actually just getting started in this career in 2023, what advice would you give them to have a successful career?

Michael Solomon [00:23:46]:

Humans are the most important thing to remember. They're not bots. They're not commodities. They're actually people and the more you understand each each person that you're dealing with,

Benjamin [00:23:59]:

the better your results are gonna be. Awesome. And same question, but for I don't wanna say, like, people that have been around the block. But, you know, people that have been in the industry Like, what are some things that you would advise them to do to to see get success or stay successful?

Michael Solomon [00:24:14]:

Kinda disrupt yourself. Don't What did I just see? I just saw a quote that somebody was asked. I can't remember the source, so I'm not gonna be very good, but it's gonna be great. Somebody was asked the very senior engineer, like, how do you how do you do this? Year after year, you're always ahead of everybody. He said I read one text a year. And they're like, that's it. He's like, yeah. That's one more than everybody else reads. I mean, put that on steroids. Like, do do a little bit of work because a lot of people around you aren't especially as you get to the top. I love that advice.

Benjamin [00:24:47]:

Now is there been a book that has had a huge impact on your career life?

Michael Solomon [00:24:52]:

Daniel Lubets Lubetsky's book about being kind, really. I mean, I got to interview him for our books, so this is sort of like I'm I'm not going that far from home, but You you know, he he started kind snacks, which are the clear kind things that you see all over the place, and he since soul sold the business. But He really had a point of view about the kind of company he wanted to build and having gone there a couple times and just sort of been in the office and seen the culture and the experience. It was intentional, and he he stuck to it, and he did it, and it and it's really and and it's not about People think when you talk about kindness, that there's some part of this that excludes holding people accountable. or that you can't be tough and be kind. And I think people have to understand that those two things can really coexist well.

Benjamin [00:25:47]:

I I love that, and that's a really good point that I know most people don't think about. You think about kind, like, just being like a hey. Give them, like, a nice compliment, but Are you giving them a compliment? They're not getting anything done? Right. If I had spinach in my teeth right now,

Michael Solomon [00:26:02]:

it wouldn't make me feel good when you told me that I had spinach in my teeth. It it, like, that wouldn't be nice because it would make me feel bad, but it would be kind because I wouldn't keep walking around with it that day. And to bring it back to recruiting, it like I said, if somebody's in the wrong job, it's not nice to let them go. But it is actually kind because they're in a they're they're they're somewhere where they can't succeed and they can't excel, and you're helping them Find their way somewhere else depending on what level of helping you do with that, but we have done that.

Benjamin [00:26:35]:

Awesome. Yeah. When it comes to actually the future of recruiting and the future of talent management, What are your thoughts on that? Where's where's recruiting and talent management going?

Michael Solomon [00:26:45]:

AI is gonna play a huge role. I think that Right now, we have humans who go out and search LinkedIn and databases for people based on a very specific set of criteria, and and humans are sometimes not great at that. One of the reasons that I have always not used the term recruiter or even corrected people when they use that with us is the talent that we represent has such a bad impression of recruiters Because they have been treated like cattle and like a numb a numbers game. So What I mean by that is if somebody had in their LinkedIn profile, I'm a Ruby expert with 9 years of experience, and one day I played with React for 10 minutes and thought it was cool. They're getting a recruiter who's reaching out to them being like, I think you're an expert at React. How would you like this? And that is something that AI should be able to actually really parse in a better way that humans can. And then, hopefully, with the AI being able to refine the list so we take some of that searching, we make it even better. Hopefully, the humans can actually use their time reach out to that person and say, I I saw that you loved running when you were in college. We're building a running app That's why we thought it would be interesting for you. I mean, what whatever it is, but making connections to things that matter versus

Benjamin [00:28:10]:

connections to things that are incorrect. And it's one of the things, like, seeing some of the the tools coming out, seeing some of the conversations, and it a lot almost every single guest in this podcast talks about relatability, connections, relationships, and how AI can actually speed things up. rather than, like, what you said. I I think I today, I got 3 emails from recruiters. I hitting me up for just a one word that I had in my LinkedIn profile, and I'm like, I'm not that person.

Michael Solomon [00:28:39]:

Exactly. Exactly. That that's exactly what I'm talking about. Or the recruiters who say I'm looking for 17 years of Ruby on Rails experience, and Ruby on Rails has only been around for 15 years. Like, those are the things that just don't go well when you're trying to get somebody's attention.

Benjamin [00:28:56]:

Well, flipping gears, Is there something that you feel always had a major impact on your own personal success?

Michael Solomon [00:29:03]:

Yes. I I am one of those people that are often called a seeker. And I am constantly I mean, we're talking about life learn lifelong learning. I am constantly looking at ways to improve myself. everything I do on improving me like it improves everything I do. So I just keep investing time and energy into myself. And candidly, And it's it relates to this. The most recent thing I did is I just went through 60 hours of crisis hotline training to be on a suicide hotline. wanna know how to talk to people in a way where you can actually get them to to to really lean in? Do this training. Like, I mean, do the work also, but do like, it's unbelievable how much I've learned from other fields about how to be in business and how to be a human that can relate to other humans. And I'm still working on it and far from where I wanna be, but Well, okay. So you just went through a 60 hour training if you on Afford to be part of a crisis hotline. You're volunteering your time to be part of a crisis hotline. On top of that, you own a company and you work with a ton of talent. How are you fitting that in? This is this is sort of a whole management conversation. We actually have 2 companies, I've cofounded 3 nonprofits that I sit on I still sit on the board of 2 of's, and I'm still involved with all of them. And I'm doing the thing I just told you, and I'm also doing something with returning citizens coming out of being incarcerated and an entrepreneurial program. And I do it a thing with a food may. And I'm not saying that to be braggy. That was not my intention. I get charge out of doing things that are of service to other people and and and help, so I've built a lot of that into my life. But the only reason I can do that is because of all of that investment into how do I make systems to make things easy? How do I manage people so I can delegate things that I don't have to do? And despite all of the things you just heard, Try and reach me. You will not have a hard time. I have plenty of time. I mean, I I I know that I'm not I'm not being braggy. I just like I I've made it all really easy for myself. and I put a lot of energy into doing that.

Benjamin [00:31:09]:

And I'll just say for to invite for the podcast, I was actually surprised how quick of a response that you guys set. and you guys even apologized on how long it took house. And that is but I think it was 6 hours or something like that, or maybe it was overnight. I don't know what it was, but it was longer than my usual response time.

Michael Solomon [00:31:24]:

And the and the reason just so you know was because my partner, Rashan, and I were discussing who was going to deal with it because there was there there was that that was the badging for it. Well and they're talking about all the different things that you're doing. I think and I don't know how to really ask the question to get to where I'm going, but I think that's, like,

Benjamin [00:31:41]:

leaders, recruiters, Even your own personal stuff, you should be doing stuff. I wanna say, like, outside the box. You see where I'm going? Like, what advice would you give to, like, find that kind of thing that just turns you on? There's a couple of things online that help with sort of figuring out what are your values and what do you care most about. But I think for for the most part, most people know

Michael Solomon [00:32:01]:

what tugs on their personal heartstrings most, whether, you know, for some people it's animals, some people it's homeless, some people's veterans, and that all has to do with backgrounds and history. But if you don't know, go figure it out. And if you do I don't know. I look. I I think I I get more out of it than other people do, but I have had a lot of joy from doing those things. And and it fills my cup. I I I have energy because of that, and I hope I hope other people will try it. But I'll tell you, number 1, the last person I hired to my company, I met at a volunteer opportunity and was instantly sure that she was the perfect hire. Like, it was just so clear. Part of it was because she was at a volunteer opportunity that I like that. And these trainings, everything I'm doing, it's just adding to my professional life, especially this this crisis training. Awesome.

Benjamin [00:32:52]:

Now with everything that you've gone through, all the experiences, the learning opportunities, the challenges, the ups, and the downs. If you can go back to the very beginning of your career, sit down and give yourself advice. What kind of advice would you give yourself? Most shit doesn't matter.

Michael Solomon [00:33:09]:

Figure out what does. I think most of us go through life spending an enormous amount of time making decisions that, number 1, will never know which outcome would better. And number 2, really don't matter. And when I think about the early days of our business, my partner and I who have been friends since 3rd grade, argued over so many things that didn't matter. And it wasn't it wasn't about whether we're arguing. It was just that they didn't matter. Like, it just didn't make a difference. So that's a big one. and focusing on the things that do matter. And I kinda wish I had known a little earlier to really put more and more energy into myself that came a little bit later. in life in terms of investing in professional and personal development that has really impacted me in all the best ways. And then there's another side of it, sorry, which is ignorance is bliss. If you're not somebody who's, like, seeking, don't go look too much because once you once you see things, you can't unsee them. No. You you just mentioned that you,

Benjamin [00:34:08]:

you know, weren't really doing a lot of, like, personal development, but then you all of a sudden started doing. Was there, like, a shift or was there something that happened that really shifted that into care.

Michael Solomon [00:34:17]:

I probably was doing it not as, like, not as robustly. I I think part of what happened was I started seeing results from it, and that sort of fed it. And so once it was a little bit of a snowball, And now I'm realizing, like, maybe I need to, like, slow down. I I've noticed very recently that there are certain, like, life life hacker articles that I I open up about, like, cheats, and I'm like, you really have read all of these. Just just, like, be be a little more selective. I absolutely love that. Well, Michael, before I let you go, is there anything else that you'd love to share with the listeners? No. It was a real this was a really fun conversation. I'm, you know, totally available if people have questions or if there's intersections of what they do and what we do. Email is better than than LinkedIn for me. I'm a little slow on LinkedIn, which I know is pretty bad. But as I said, I don't consider myself a recruiter. So But I I I would love to talk to people and learn about what they're what they're doing, and I really enjoyed being here.

Benjamin [00:35:13]:

Awesome. Well, Michael, thank you so much. For the listeners, I'll have actually the book and the show notes so you can definitely check it out. And, Michael, once again, thank you for coming on the podcast. I like I said, when we first started, I read the book, and it just, like I don't wanna say, like, shifted my mind, but it really took me to thinking about how to be a higher level recruiter. Just based on, like, the way that you guys, like, took care of your your clients. I don't wanna say candidates or clients. And how that impacted so many different organizations and so many different lives and so many different things. So definitely thank you for coming on the podcast. Thank you so much, and thank you for saying that.

Michael Solomon [00:35:50]:

It was a pleasure.

Intro [00:35:51]:

Awesome. And for the listeners, guys, until next time. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast with Benjamin Mena. If you enjoyed. Hit subscribe and leave a rating.