Sourcing Hacks for Recruiters with Michael Rasmussen

Michael Rasmussen [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Elite Recruiter podcast with your host, Benjamin Menna, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing mindset, money, leadership, and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:20]:
A few quick announcements before we dive into this episode. First of all, book of the month for June is gap selling. Second of all, the recruiting growth Summit registration is going to go live next week. Stay tuned. It's going to be awesome. All right, let's dive in. I'm excited about this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast. I have my special guest, Mike Rasmussen, to talk about sourcing hacks that are working for you to find the best candidates for your clients and for the companies you're at in 2024.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:50]:
So, Mike, welcome to the podcast.

Michael Rasmussen [00:00:52]:
Hey, Ben. How are you doing?

Benjamin Mena [00:00:53]:
Doing pretty good. Doing pretty good. So you've been in recruiting for a while. You do a deep dive constantly in all the best sourcing tools. So I am so excited for you to share with the listeners before we even start getting started. In all that talk about how you even ended up in this wonderful world.

Michael Rasmussen [00:01:08]:
Of recruiting, I studied for it.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:10]:
Wait, what? Seriously?

Michael Rasmussen [00:01:12]:
Yup. I did so well, I started my career in HR in, oh, my goodness, I'm going to date myself now. 22,004. I'm wearing my SJSU paraphernalia today because that's where I graduated from. But, yeah, that's how it started. I was a hungry college student, and ironically, I was like, I got to figure out what I want to do. And so I was taking some business courses I went through the first couple of years, did that lower division stuff. I took the Myers Briggs, and I went and sat in front of a counselor one day, and she goes, you do know that you're like, your profile is off the charts for HR stuff, right? And I'm like, really? And she goes, yeah.

Michael Rasmussen [00:01:56]:
I mean, marketing, you could do marketing, too. But just based on what you've been talking to me about and what you want to be doing with yourself, you know, you've just. I had you take this Myers Briggs, and now you're like, off the charts. Totally enfp, your. Your background and your. The person that you are, you'd be so good for HR. And so I'm like, oh, cool. Let's see.

Michael Rasmussen [00:02:20]:
So she's like, take that HR course, HR 101 course, and see how you like it. I went through it. I absolutely fell in love with it. And I was like, oh, this is cool. There's all sorts of cool things in HR. It's like, benefits and compensation, and this is how you get people on board. And then I went down the recruiting rabbit hole, and I started. I took a staffing class, and I just loved it.

Michael Rasmussen [00:02:43]:
And I was like, ooh, this is cool. There's so many things about this.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:46]:
And so there was a staffing class. Stop. There was a staffing class back in the day.

Michael Rasmussen [00:02:51]:
There was a staffing class? Yes, as part of the HR curriculum. It was. No, I.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:55]:
The only thing I knew about recruiting was the recruiters that came to the college campus that you just, like, you pass your resumes to. And I'm like, I don't know who you guys are, what you guys do, but you actually took a staffing class.

Michael Rasmussen [00:03:04]:
Yeah, they had stuff on assessments and staffing philosophy and psychology and all this weird stuff. It was all in one course, right. But when I took it, I was like, oh, I love this. And so then I took him, and I went in to an internship at ADT, which, ironically, at the time, they were trying to sell door to door alarm systems. And so the reason he hired me is because he's like, I can pay you to be a recruiter for me to get these 100% commissioned salespeople on board and get these crews to go around. And so I was like, that's a cool idea. I like this. I can go visit college campuses and talk about what you do and selling alarms and stuff.

Michael Rasmussen [00:03:43]:
And so it was really funny, actually. So I did that, and the students were just these part time college kids. They needed something to do during the summer. So I went out and started recruiting, and ironically, I took. One of my favorite stories is I took little flyers and I actually put them on college campuses, on their cars, underneath their windshield wipers, and I said, earn extra money during the summer and then call me. And so then they would call me, and we'd have these conversations, and I would explain, that was 100% commission. And they're like, oh, yeah, I could do that. I could go door to door and sell alarm systems.

Michael Rasmussen [00:04:19]:
So that was my first real stint in recruiting, and I didn't even realize how funny it was at the time, but it. I didn't. You know, but that's what I was doing. And it was an internship. I was getting paid $8 an hour for it. So I was like, this is fun. I like this. And so the next opportunity was that applied materials, and then it kind of just went from there, and then I fell into an agency role in my senior year, and then that's where my recruiting career kind of took off.

Michael Rasmussen [00:04:43]:
I was. It was funny. I went to a couple of HR generalist jobs after that, but I always got roped back into staffing. It always came back to that. And that's ever since, like, 2009, 2008. That's when I was, like, full time recruiting since then.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:00]:
I gotta ask, everything that you learned in school, was it completely different or the same when you got out of school?

Michael Rasmussen [00:05:06]:
It was all theoretical, but, yeah, the stuff that you learn on the job is more applicable than what you learn in school. But the strategy stuff was helpful. But, yeah, even then, getting actually doing it is where you cut your teeth and you start to learn all the basics.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:24]:
So you, you've, you've stayed in the recruiting side of the house. Did you, like, you just happen to, like, fall into recruiting, like, staying on that side, or did you actually, like, hey, I like recruiting more than I like HR.

Michael Rasmussen [00:05:36]:
That's exactly what happened. I liked recruiting more than I liked HR. But the funny part was, is that I always had my, my jobs since then would touch recruiting where touch HR, but they would mostly be like 70% to 80% recruiting with HR project stuff mixed in. So, like, as I continued to evolve, except on the agency side, it was pure sourcing, pure recruiting. But then I got to ADP and it was always project based since then. So every role that I've had since then has been essentially 80 20.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:07]:
Okay. I'm always curious because, like, you know, some people I remember because I was an internal recruiter for a little while, and, you know, a few times I got asked, like, why aren't you going the HR route? I'm like, I want nothing to do with HR. I hate HR with a passion. Like, I don't even understand why recruiting is even related to HR. Like, it is a recruit. Ops is your own separate department. Get rid of HR. But that's a whole.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:29]:
Another story for another day.

Michael Rasmussen [00:06:30]:
Yeah, well, it's actually kind of funny because a lot of the HR skills that I picked up are actually valuable for the recruiting side if you're internal, because then you can speak the language of your HR partners, and then they, they give, that gives you more credibility with them, so it actually helps.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:48]:
True, true, true, but erotic. But anyway, I am, I'm excited about jumping in because, like, the recruiting industry is changing on a, like, a fast clip. There are so many different tools. Like, I. Sometimes I feel like what worked, like, two, three years ago isn't working now. Like, like, I know that you're a speaker at some of the biggest, biggest organizations, recruiting organizations out there. So what is the secret to sourcing in 2024, Mike?

Michael Rasmussen [00:07:16]:
Okay, so just, just get the basics of Boolean down. I mean, you gotta, I mean, that's one thing that a lot of recruiters are scared of, right? I mean, some of them are scared of the Boolean science behind it. So if you have even a basic understanding of Boolean and can write a good string and you can do open web searches outside of LinkedIn, you are more valuable instantaneously because 90% of the recruiters out there are using LinkedIn. Recruiter guarantee it. Either that or they're using LinkedIn in some way, shape or form. Get away from LinkedIn, make sure, you know, use it. Yes, LinkedIn is great tool, but it's not your only tool. So for instance, if you're starting to source on Facebook, for example, and GitHub, and you can source against use the site operator.

Michael Rasmussen [00:08:08]:
One of my favorite things that I've been playing with lately is just, you can do so many amazing things with just the site. You'd be amazed at all the little things that the site boolean operator does for you.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:22]:
Because for those listening, what's a site operator?

Michael Rasmussen [00:08:26]:
Site. And then you have the dot dot right after it. And then you put the website right after it. So for example, site dot dot, which is again, that, I don't know what they call that. It's on the same key as the, I want to say, what is that quotation with the dot above it? Anyway, it's on that key. So go there. I just forget what they call it. All of a sudden my brain went blank.

Michael Rasmussen [00:08:53]:
But site dot dot, and then whatever their website is. So for example, facebook.com, and then put your keywords right after it and do it in a Google search. You'd be amazed at the magic that comes back. So I've heard a lot of folks say, well, I can't use Facebook. It doesn't show me where they are. Did you know that a lot of people actually, there's an about section on your Facebook profile, and if they put anything about their job title, like programmer, if they're a Java engineer, there are so many people that put their job information on their Facebook, and Facebook has 3 billion people as compared to LinkedIn, which is 900 million people. Why wouldn't you use Facebook? And it's just incredible how many profiles you can find. Same thing with GitHub.

Michael Rasmussen [00:09:41]:
You can have so much fun with GitHub if you're looking for tech people and the trades. Oh, this is even more insane. Did you know that trades people, construction, electricians, plumbers. Some of these jobs, h vac people, for example, I've been playing more and more with that, with the trades. And there's, they put their stuff on their Facebook, and many times they're not on LinkedIn because they don't know. They're like, LinkedIn? What's that? Yeah, they actually professional say, yeah, they use the fate. They use Facebook for almost their professional stuff. And you'll see them posting about all their work stuff, too.

Michael Rasmussen [00:10:19]:
So it's insane. So here's a fun trick. You put site dot dot facebook.com and then put the keywords h vac. Just use h vac as a guinea date. H vac. And on Google, you don't need to put ands, you don't even put ads. You just separate by the terms one space between them. And then you have your keywords and just plug that in and see what comes back.

Michael Rasmussen [00:10:45]:
And then look at, you know, just plug in some of your, you know, specific information about location, and then you have a treasure trove of people on there. The next question is how you find their contact info. Well, if you can, if you can drill down and find the person and you have a company name, there's an old tool called the phone. And it's funny because if you know where the person is, once you have the, the, the name of their company and their name, you can call into their company. A lot of these organizations still have their own phone systems. And you just go through the little telephone directory and you'll drill down and you'll get a voicemail. You pick up the phone, you call them and you leave a voicemail. Hi, you might not be looking for a job right now, but I saw you, I found your profile on the web, and I'm interested in speaking with you about a job.

Michael Rasmussen [00:11:34]:
Please call me back if you'd like to hear more. I think you'd be a great fit. Leave it alone. And then they'll call you.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:41]:
So, okay, so sourcing hacks for 2024 is picking up. One of them is picking up the phone.

Michael Rasmussen [00:11:46]:
Yes.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:47]:
You know, that's going to be hard for some recruiters out there because there are so many tools out there that can be done.

Michael Rasmussen [00:11:54]:
But yes, you can also piece together their email address by using some of the tools that are out there. One of my favorites is kendo sourcing ninja. Absolutely love that rocket reach. If you have the domain name of the. So you go to their website, you look at the domain name. Let's just pick on netapp.com. right? So just to plug this in, I'd go to Google. I'm just going to test this myself just to see that it still works.

Michael Rasmussen [00:12:22]:
So while we're talking, I'm just going to. So what I'm doing right now is I'm going to Google plugging in network and rocket reach, and I'm putting in email structure. So what I'm doing is I'm looking at, okay, perfect. So it pops it up immediately. And what's fun about Rocket Reach is it gives you kind of an idea of how their setup is for that domain. And it works about 80% of the time. So theirs is, this is what it says. The most common Netapp email format is first, last, netapp.com, which is being used by 83.5% of Netapp work email addresses.

Michael Rasmussen [00:13:08]:
So you have an 83% chance of getting it right. So that's pretty cool, right? So there's another little trick is just go to Google, type in the domain name of the company, and my exact search was Netapp.com rocket reach email structure. And there's many other ways to do this, but this is one of my favorite tricks, is Rocket Reach has a really good formula that they use to get to about, I've had about 80% success rate in hitting the right email address. Wow.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:43]:
Okay.

Michael Rasmussen [00:13:43]:
I'm still kind of looking at others, though. There's all sorts of tools like Lucia and contact out. And if you use some of the tools like hire easy or seek out, they also have great tool sets that can get you to a really good. You have another one that you're using. It's called betterleap. So each of these little just find your favorite AI enhanced sourcing contact tool and you can get to a really good outcome that way. Or use some tools like people. Or here's another great trick that's not even a trick.

Michael Rasmussen [00:14:15]:
It's just if you want to find the greatest list of tools that are out there and, and just experiment using your own experimentation, go to Dean Dacostas pages. And he's got a treasure trove of tools throughout his whole list. And just choose any of the ones that he has that are out there and you'll, you'll be ahead of the, in many respects, just, he's done a great job of being an encyclopedia of tools. So I would give him a call out. His website is incredible. He's actually got some paid tools that you can pay for $50 a month, and you can use some. He's created this whole amazing thing using all his contact finder tools and just using his tool, pull them all into one spot, and then you can even create another really amazing contact finder just from that. So I'm just giving you a few tips, but you want to play around, you know, a little bit and experiment.

Michael Rasmussen [00:15:11]:
But that's my main thing that I do is just type in Rocket Reach because I've always had success with it, so. But there are other ways to do it, too.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:18]:
I know, I know some of my personal favorites are seek out people GPT and better leap. What are. And I know I feel like tools are always evolving, tools are always changing. What's good? Like two years ago might not even be around today, but at the moment. Say again, what were some of your favorite sourcing and recruiting tools?

Michael Rasmussen [00:15:39]:
Lucia contact out Rocket reach, kendo smur sing ninja I really love. That's actually one of my main go to because they seem to have some really, just as an extension, it's really good. There's other ones out there, like peoplewhitepages.com and other tools that you can use that'll kind of piece it together for you. I think even, would you believe it or not, chat GPT has some amazing capability as well, just from the standpoint of, I mean, there's so many applications to it, it's not even funny. Like the way to set up a reach out to a cadet and just get a template. You want to rewrite it. But chat GPT in and of itself, garbage in, garbage out. So the quality of your prompt is going to give you the quality of your outcome on chat GPT, for example, too.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:31]:
Well, and this is kind of probably maybe a little bit of a question more on the internal recruiter side of the house. I always saw the difference of a lot of places between, like, the recruiters and the sourcers. And I know a few places that I've saw sources were looked at almost as junior recruiters, and it shouldn't be that way.

Michael Rasmussen [00:16:52]:
Not right.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:54]:
You know, for that.

Michael Rasmussen [00:16:56]:
What are you talking about? Like, I hold another episode, I could go on for hours about that.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:02]:
I feel like sourcing is an art, while recruiting is a lot about the relationships, can you talk about the difference of, like, why you think sourcing is so important for recruiters to learn agency or in house?

Michael Rasmussen [00:17:14]:
Well, it just gives you another dimension. If you're good, mastering the relationship side is very important. A lot of recruiters come from the sales side for obvious reasons, but your persuasiveness skills are also key. Right? So being able to write a good email, being able to craft a compelling voicemail, I think those are key skills that are important for both recruiters and sources. Because what we're seeing now and what's happened over the last few years, and even if you're an HR, HR people are seeing this too. Like it's crossed over. Like HR people have recruiting responsibility now. So you're crossing into the realm of, you've got where things may have been segmented in the past, there's a lot of crossover now.

Michael Rasmussen [00:18:06]:
So being a good sourcing recruiter is going to make you a better relationship building recruiter. And here's why. Because the ability to take data and understand the meaning behind it and where it's leading you from a detective, if you're able to find information and get to the right candidates, then you're already one step ahead. Understanding wise of what the role is that you're recruiting for. I mean, that intellectual step of knowing the profile and being able to talk through it is absolutely essential. And being a good recruiter from the intake meeting to the end of the process, because you go through full cycle and you start off with a data driven approach and you're a talent advisor, essentially a consultant, you're going out to the market and you're able to tell how many candidates there are out there. I think everything starts in the intake meeting, obviously. Right? But as you continue to, if you're in house and you're continuing to gain knowledge in that space, the foundation starts to build.

Michael Rasmussen [00:19:17]:
You start to see patterns in the industry. So maybe you're an agency side recruiter and you have multiple clients across the industry. What are you going to start to notice as, even as an agency recruiter, you're going to start to see patterns, right? So I think the big thing is the pattern ability. The ability to see the pattern where the industry is headed and its effect on talent is also going to make you a better recruiter because you're going to be able to talk about the issues to those candidates. See, there's a concept in marketing that applies in this very same approach, which is Personas. Simply put, Persona is a marketing concept that when applied to recruiting is very powerful because you're starting to see what common issues that that candidate pool is facing. And as you start to look at resumes, as you're starting to do sourcing in and of itself, the answer is you start to cross into both sides. The traditional sourcing side benefits the recruiting side.

Michael Rasmussen [00:20:24]:
The traditional recruiting side benefits the sourcing. The reason is because the intellectual ability between the two starts to give you the noticing, the patterns that help you attract those candidates in the first place and create a message that's compelling to them. So that's where the power of the two starts combined. It's funny because it's logical, but not a lot of us think that way. Like, if you're in a segment or like a segmented mentality, you start to lose a little bit of that creativity. So the key is learn. I mean, as recruiters, we got to be constantly learning, constantly taking this in. It's that the big hack is use your brain to see the patterns and find the relationships, because that's the key right there.

Michael Rasmussen [00:21:14]:
That's, that leads to better messaging. It leads to all the other things and. But, yeah, have a bit of put on your marketing hat half the time, because the data that you're getting is like market research. The relationship building on the sales side of the recruiting hat is also intellectually connected. So I think so many times we try to segment this stuff, but there's a crossover that's natural.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:42]:
How did you start learning about sourcing yourself? The reason why I'm asking this is because I remember when I first started recruiting, it was like, we were given some job boards, and we said, hey, go call 75 candidates a day for the job. So we'd hop on the job boards, and this is LinkedIn and stuff, but I had to actively, there was nobody around me when I was an internal recruiter, actually talking about sourcing, trying to learn about sourcing. It was, we look at the applications. Whatever's there is there. And I'm like, well, none of the people that applied are qualified. So I have to go make my manager happy. I have to go learn about this stuff. How did you learn about sourcing to begin with?

Michael Rasmussen [00:22:23]:
It's a good question. I think it all started when I was on monster in my first agency job, and I didn't have enough candidates applying to the postings that we put out. And so, and I was like, how are you going to fill these executive assistant roles if nobody's applying? I mean, they knew we were an agency, so what's the key to get them? So the first step was, okay, I got to go find some of these people. So I'd start, I went into the monster database. Oh, here's people. Okay. And so I started putting them in a list. So I got my own little sourcing list.

Michael Rasmussen [00:23:01]:
I created my own little spreadsheet. I was like, okay, here's several candidates. So I would source 20 to 30 at a time so that I have enough people to call, because I wouldn't get to my goals if I didn't have enough people to call. So I was like, that's really how it started. I was like, what am I going to do? I just know I need to get on the phone and call these people, but I also need people to call. And so basic sourcing started with, of all the silly things, the monster database. And then I was like, oh, there's this thing over here called Craigslist. What's this? Oh, there's people on this, tons of them.

Michael Rasmussen [00:23:34]:
Oh, my gosh. So I went and started looking at Craigslist. You can still fight candidates on Craigslist. It's crazy. People were like, what? That's so 2010. But it's true. You can still fight people on Craigslist. People still post their resumes over there.

Michael Rasmussen [00:23:49]:
It's crazy. And just different channels. So here's the thing I started to learn as I started to get into this. I started to discover, like, professional associations. And then I started playing around with Boolean that I was learning at the time. Like, I was like, oh, this cool thing called Boolean. I stumbled upon a really good website from a really amazing person called Glenn Cathy called Boolean Black. And so I started playing around.

Michael Rasmussen [00:24:13]:
I was like, ooh, I can learn this. And so I was like, so I just started experimenting. Irony is that later I would come to know Glenn Cathy in our industry and actually who he was, but I didn't know at the time. Oh, this guy wearing boolean black belts, a pretty cool dude. So I was like, this is good stuff. And so I started doing it and playing with it. Later in 2000, like 2010, I actually met Mark tortoise. And then I went to work for net polarity.

Michael Rasmussen [00:24:42]:
And that's where kind of my sourcing got even better because I had the basics down. I didn't really know a lot. I mean, I knew enough to be dangerous. But then, I mean, sitting across the table and watching the magic that Mark brought to the table in the Bay area at the time and learning from this amazing guru of sourcing, right? It was one of the best things that ever happened to me. So I just. Since then, I do owe mark a lot. I want to just say, give him a shout out because he is one of the best that's out there. And I really have to thank him for the knowledge that I've gained because it's so much fun when you actually find the candidate, you get them on the phone, they're interested, and they're like, nobody's called me about this job yet.

Michael Rasmussen [00:25:23]:
You're like, great, I'm the one, let's do it. And then you walk them through it, and then you get a placement and you get a fee. Oh, my gosh, that's amazing. So, like, my, one of my first major fees was $10,000. And I just remember how big that was at the time. And I was, like, so blown away. Like, so I found this person. I placed this person.

Michael Rasmussen [00:25:41]:
The candidate loved them, the client loved them. The candidate was really excited about the role. Boom, I made a placement, and I was like, $10,000. So I got a cut of that. What was it at the time? Like 3000? It was an extra three k in my pocket, right. So, I mean, I don't know, just get a taste of that and it gets in your blood, right? It's, it's.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:02]:
Well, and that's. I love how you got into it, but that kind of takes in the story. Like, where is, like, recruiting and sourcing going now with all this artificial intelligence that's coming out and all these, like, crazy tools that are just, like, popping out on a daily basis?

Michael Rasmussen [00:26:16]:
It's a great question. So chat GPT can help you write a string. Okay, let's just be blunt. It has the ability to help you write a boolean string that's creative and looks good, but you need to check it against, you know, it still has the ability to mess things up. So you take your, your knowledge of it, and then you, you see what it writes and then you refine it. So here's where artificial intelligence helps you. Your first step should always be to use your own creativity and see how far you can get with that, because that makes your brain smarter. It makes, it connects the neurons in your brain, and it makes you, you know, your discipline of doing so makes you a stronger recruiter.

Michael Rasmussen [00:26:59]:
If you're just depending on the AI to do everything for you, your value goes out the window immediately. So the first step is, yes, use AI, but check it and use it. Don't use it as a crux. Use it as a productivity enhancer. In other words, you should be using AI just like you were using, you know, when you first started with email? Remember all those years ago when email was first invented? What was that like? I mean, it was like, oh, this new thing called email. I can instantly send someone a message. Great. Wow, this is incredible.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:32]:
Man, I was so excited when I got an email. Now I'm not excited.

Michael Rasmussen [00:27:37]:
Right? So. But the thing about AI, it's the same idea you're adapting to the new world. In other words, don't be afraid of the AI. The AI will not replace your job, I promise you. But if you know how to enhance the AI and you become what I would call a prompt engineer, and you're really good at putting in the right prompts to get the right results that help you with your productivity. Ooh, you're dangerous because that's the power right there. Use it to help you write your boolean strengths if you don't know how to do it, if you're still learning, see how it picks out stuff for you. It's amazing just using AI and asking a good prompt of chat DGPT.

Michael Rasmussen [00:28:21]:
The way you do that is you give it information. For example, you plug in the job description that you're working on, you plug in the industry that the, the role is in, you say chat GPT. Based on the information above, I am trying to do x, y, and z. For example, I'm trying to create find the right candidates for this job description within this parameter, within this geography. Can you please help me write a boolean string that finds the best candidates for this role? It spits something out. Watch what it spits out, though. Look at the mechanics. Learn from chat GPT.

Michael Rasmussen [00:28:59]:
The AI can teach you things. And then you take that information and then you refine it. Then you're getting the best of both worlds. Gain the AI's amazing tool, the amazing things that it's given you. And on top of that, you're using your own brain to connect the dots and your knowledge. Suddenly, you are absolutely insanely dangerous. Like, it's, you'd be amazed at how good that makes you and even the messaging to your candidates, by all means. This is insane.

Michael Rasmussen [00:29:30]:
Listen to this. Take a LinkedIn profile. I love this tip. You're going to love this. So take a LinkedIn profile, take the PDF, download it, take, copy the entire LinkedIn profile information that you've got there. Ask chat GPT to create a message within 300 words or less that's personalized to that candidate and going to get them interested in the job. And watch what it spits out. Now, once you spit that out, you want to refine it even further because sometimes it's going to have like eight.

Michael Rasmussen [00:30:09]:
So there's something with AI that I call the AI personality, okay? And it's not your personality, it's the AI personality. So you need to. So go through it, read it, make sure it doesn't sound robotic, make sure it sounds human. And then add your own flair to it. So it's going to have some cool creative stuff in there that's tailored to that candidate. Once you refine it, you've got a message that's absolutely insanely good and then you send that to your candidate. Watch what happens. So that's the way to use AI.

Michael Rasmussen [00:30:43]:
You're using your brain and the AI brain together and then you're just insanely unstoppable. It's really cool.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:53]:
That is awesome. Well, before we jump over to the next part of the podcast, is there anything else that you want to cover about sourcing and some hacks and tips for the listeners out there?

Michael Rasmussen [00:31:01]:
Yeah, I mean, just like I said before, you got this great tool called chat GPT. If you're learning how to write Boolean strings and you don't know exactly how to do it yet, and you're, you're kind of. Or maybe you're an experienced recruiter that knows how to write the boolean strength, use chat GPT to help you refine your results. In other words, it's going to give you ideas. The other thing you can do with that is chat GPT can help you get synonymous. So ask it, what are like terms to this particular term? Try it with something basic like finance. Or if you're a tech recruiter, try it with something like angular, like the angular for the front end technologies. Say, I am looking for a Java development engineer using angular.

Michael Rasmussen [00:31:43]:
What are some other terms that are associated with angular? Then watch what it spits out. It's going to spit out a whole bunch of great stuff. It's going to give you search terms that help you refine your strength. That's a great tip.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:56]:
Absolutely love that. And it's going to be crazy. I mean, this is just chat GPT. Give it a few years, all the tooling capabilities.

Michael Rasmussen [00:32:06]:
Yeah, it's just nuts. And it can help you write a killer. You know those postings that people put out on, on LinkedIn? Ask it to write a job description based on the basic information. You give it with emojis and something that has some, some flair and watch what it spits out. It's actually really fun. I did an H vac search once and I asked chat GPT to help me to come up with a creative blurb about an H Vac engineer, one of the most basic and mundane roles out there, right? And he comes back and it says, join the cool crew. And I was like, that's awesome. And it was so, it was ridiculous.

Michael Rasmussen [00:32:45]:
But you know, when I sent that message to a few candidates, the response back was this. This is one of the most creative job messages I've ever gotten. But, and I did the exact same thing. I took the chat GPT and I rewrote it just slightly and they loved it. Like they were, the candidates were absolutely enthralled by what was written because it made them laugh and it asked it to have some humor and it did, it made them laugh and it got them excited. So it's funny. That's chat GPT, right? It's just, it's insane.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:21]:
There's been a few times where I've used it for like, outreach emails and I'm like, ah, that's kind of dorky. Let me just like, try a few. And I'm like, God dang it, my response rate went up. I guess these tss, isn't it? Full scope poly people are just annoyed with the boring emails. But that's awesome. Well, jumping over to quickfire questions, Mike, and these are always fun. What advice would you give to somebody that's just getting started in the recruiting industry this year if they're just getting started now in recruiting?

Michael Rasmussen [00:33:48]:
Oh, man. You know, don't be afraid to fail and don't be afraid to try to something new that gets you out of your comfort zone. Because the reality about recruiting and where we're going is that you're going to be out of your comfort zone, locked because of the way things are evolving. But never lose sight of the human piece of it. At its core, recruiting is always going to be human. And don't ever lose the human element. That means get back to your candidates on time, give them, keep your promises, you know, tell them, you know, that's the, that's the number one thing is keep recruiting human as much as you can. You know, pick up the phone, make a call, build relationships.

Michael Rasmussen [00:34:36]:
Your number one value add that AI can never replace, and this is always going to be true, is your ability to make people feel good about the opportunity, the role, and that you made them feel different when they hung up the phone with you. When you get off the phone, don't make them feel like they're. That you're a used car salesman. Unfortunately, that's, there's a lot in our industry who do, and I hate that. I wish we need to keep that humanity.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:10]:
Same question, but for people that have been around the block 510 2020 plus years, what advice would you give to them for success?

Michael Rasmussen [00:35:17]:
And this applies to the younger crowd, too. Keep evolving. Keep evolving as a human being, as a recruiter. You know, what are, you know, keep learning best practices, keep learning new ways of doing things because things keep changing. And so we must change too, to keep up. And if don't be afraid of the new tech that's coming. Instead, embrace it and be the one who knows how to use it. That's going to make you stand out.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:44]:
Absolutely love that. Has there been a book that has had a huge impact on your own personal career and success?

Michael Rasmussen [00:35:50]:
I will call one out. That is absolutely incredible. It's called the power of one more by Ed Milet. If you don't know who Ed Milette is, go watch the podcast. You'll see exactly what I'm talking about. That gives me inspiration every single day to keep going, no matter what I'm facing, no matter what obstacles in my way. But that book is incredible. Incredibly life changing.

Michael Rasmussen [00:36:15]:
The power of one more by Ed Mila. It is one of the best. The other one, ironically, is how to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie. Still a classic to this day. And it's the principles there are timeless.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:29]:
I love that. Both are great books. Like, man, if I could get ed on this podcast, I'd be excited.

Michael Rasmussen [00:36:34]:
Oh, man, me too. I like to get into my show.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:39]:
What do you think has been, you know, you've grown through your career, you've worked at a lot of great places. You've kept on growing the entire time. What do you think has been a big driver for your own personal success?

Michael Rasmussen [00:36:51]:
Goal setting. Every month I have a practice that I do, and I call it quiet time. And so it's like a, this sounds kind of funny, but it's exactly, it's centering. I let myself go take a walk or I kind of take track on where I'm at in my career journey or what I'm doing and where I've been. And I take kind of a big picture point of view of where I'm headed and why. What's gotten me to where I am now versus where do I want to be? And so it's a mental exercise of just cleansing your journey a little bit. It refocuses you on the core. So, like, am I doing enough for my family? Am I focused on the people who care about me enough? Am I doing the things as a professional that I need to do? It's just a great place to kind of take stock of what you've already done and what you're doing and how you're progressing because it's a constant battle to keep changing.

Michael Rasmussen [00:37:55]:
So quiet time is amazing. It just refocuses you so much.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:01]:
It's amazing, like, how your mind works and that your best ideas comes during those quiet moments.

Michael Rasmussen [00:38:07]:
I agree totally. Yeah, completely.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:10]:
Well, here. This is actually one of my favorite questions. And if you got a chance to go back to maybe, like, not the beginning of your HR career, but the very beginning of your recruiting career, and you got a chance to sit down with yourself and give yourself some advice, what kind of advice would you give yourself?

Michael Rasmussen [00:38:29]:
Don't be such a perfectionist.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:30]:
Why?

Michael Rasmussen [00:38:31]:
Because it's okay to make mistakes. And being afraid to make a mistake, actually, it hinders the learning that you could otherwise have. Because there's a lot of times where I wanted to do everything perfectly, and it's. We're human beings. That's not how it works. It's the way we're going to make mistakes. It's just natural part of growth. And if you let yourself make mistakes and you're okay with that, but what did you learn? What was the thing that you learned from it? I would tell myself to take life as it comes because it goes so fast.

Michael Rasmussen [00:39:11]:
And if, especially if you have kids, when you see the kids grow up and they are moving on with their life, I mean, it would be number one thing. Take time. Take time. Slow down. Let it be a journey of joy versus a journey of drudgery. I mean, there's. There's so many times I was like, if I could just get through this one thing, my life would be better. It's just stupid thought back on it now.

Michael Rasmussen [00:39:38]:
I was like, man, if I just slowed down a little bit and enjoyed the walk and enjoyed the journey and let myself just, you know, spell the roses a little bit, because we're always in a rush the way society is now. We're going so fast that letting yourself slow down right now is so critical, especially since COVID because I think in our, in our United States, we've lost. We lost a million people. So that means that for every 300 people, there was at least one person in your life who was touched by that or more, right? Every single person was. Just think back on it. Look back on 2020. How did you feel about that? What was it that you were going through? And look at where you are now. Look at every issue that's come about since 2020 to now, and you'll suddenly realize how precious and short life is.

Michael Rasmussen [00:40:33]:
It's really an amazing realization of how short life is and how precious it is. And, you know, what is interesting about that is if you're focused on that and you're letting yourself be human in that way, that's going to make you a better recruiter. Ironically. I don't know how to say it another way, but that's just that empathy, that ability to be human, people want that more now than ever. And if you're authentic, that's a key word there. Authenticity is the biggest thing that you could be. Right?

Benjamin Mena [00:41:08]:
Absolutely.

Michael Rasmussen [00:41:08]:
Love that.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:09]:
Well, Mike, before I let you go, how can people follow you?

Michael Rasmussen [00:41:13]:
I am on LinkedIn, so that's an easy place to find me. My LinkedIn is LinkedIn.com in Michael Rasmussen, 408.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:27]:
Okay, nice. And you have a podcast too, right?

Michael Rasmussen [00:41:30]:
I do. And it's a vlog cast for now, but it's growing in it and the direction it's going. It's called where's your next the where's your next recruiting and talent blog cast? So I'm hoping to make a podcast eventually. I need to learn how to do the podcast. So I have a live stream every Monday, usually at twelve noon Mountain time. And we usually have a good guest on that show every now and then weekend. What's coming up is I've got an AI driven guy on the 7th. Is it the 7th, I think? Oh no.

Michael Rasmussen [00:41:57]:
10th, 10 June. And then I've got on the 17th Elisa garn, who is a Utah based HR professional. She is working for Sherm now of all places. But she's very influential on the HR scene here in Utah and across the country. So I'm excited to get her on. She'll be really good. One of my recent episodes with with Dermot O'Brien, the former Chro of ADP. And if you want to find that, I would definitely recommend that episode because it was one of my most viewed.

Michael Rasmussen [00:42:26]:
So if you go to ww dot YouTube.com forward slash at wheres your next w h e r e s y o u r n e x t. You'll find the episode. That's really good.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:41]:
That's awesome. I don't even know my YouTube address for my podcast. That's awesome. Good stuff.

Michael Rasmussen [00:42:49]:
Because I do live streams all the time.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:53]:
Nothing I do is live, so. Well, Mike, before I let you go, is there anything else that you want to share with the listeners?

Michael Rasmussen [00:42:58]:
Sure. Come find me at recruit DC if you're there. I'd love to connect with you. I know Ben, you're going to be there. Are you speaking as well?

Benjamin Mena [00:43:04]:
Yeah, yeah, I'm there to listen to you speaking, but yeah, I'm speaking also.

Michael Rasmussen [00:43:10]:
Yeah, it'll be good. I think you'll have a great episode. That'll be fun. And, hey, maybe we could turn the tables and do a live stream there. Where's your next? And have you be the guest. How about that?

Benjamin Mena [00:43:21]:
Maybe we could put that together. Well, Mike, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Talking about recruiting, talking about sourcing. Talking about sourcing hacks. So that way, you could find the candidates that you need for your clients, for the teams that you're supporting. So that way, this can help make 2024 your best year. Yeah. So keep crushing it, guys.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:42]:
Let's go.

Michael Rasmussen [00:43:43]:
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast with Benjamin Mena. If you enjoyed, hit subscribe and leave a rating.