Secrets of Cleared Recruiting with James Dyson

Intro [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Elite Recruiter podcast with your host, Benjamin Menna, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:20]:
Just a few days away from registration for the recruiting growth summit. Finish the year strong. So stay tuned. Now let's jump into this awesome episode about finding cleared professionals. I'm excited about this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast because we are going to talk about something that I am very passionate about. I passionate because I live it day in and day out, but I don't want to talk about it. I am actually bringing my, one of my good friends, James Dyson, to talk about the secret of finding those cleared professionals. And for those of you who are listening, if you don't know what a cleared professional is, it's somebody that has a security clearance that is supporting the us federal government.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:01]:
And some of these security clearances can take up to two years to get. It's insane. But I'm excited to have James talk about all the secrets of finding those clear professionals. So welcome back to the podcast, James.

James Dyson [00:01:18]:
Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate for having me on. Always a pleasure to join you to talk all things recruiting. And today, cleared recruiting, which I know is everybody's favorite type of recruiting to do. You know, people just, they stand up and just can't wait to go after I find these clear resources day after day. So this will be, this will be a fun one.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:37]:
Awesome. And for those that are listening, we typically do a deep dive into James's background, but go back and listen to episode 23 where we do like a good deep dive. So we're going to go ahead and jump forward a little bit. How long have you been in this government contracting space?

James Dyson [00:01:56]:
It's been 20 plus years now, which you can see by all the salt in my beard, now, there's more salt than pepper. That's where it comes from now. So 20 plus years, man.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:08]:
Is it from finding those clear professionals?

James Dyson [00:02:11]:
It's from having to try to find those clear professionals and talking to them and talking to the companies and trying to get everybody to get on the same page. So that's, that's. That's where the gray comes in. Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:22]:
Okay, so before we start talking about how to find them, can you talk about the different levels of security clearances?

James Dyson [00:02:28]:
Absolutely. So you have typically, most people understand secret. You know, everybody has heard of secret clearance, and then you have top secret clearance that goes up from there, but there are levels below and above them. So you have your you'll say your MBIs, which is your kind of minimum background investigations. Some of them you have what they call kind of on project clearances with a lot of DHS, they may be calling cat clearances. Different agencies has different type of clearances for them. And those are just kind of project specific clearances. Like you need those to get on that particular project or in that particular agency.

James Dyson [00:03:09]:
And then once you go above top secret, you have your top secret and your SeI. Your SeI is your secret compartmental investigation or information, which is usually being able to see specific types of, whether it's notes, projects, information, just specific type of documents that may be on that particular customer, client or agency. And then you get into your, your polygraphs, which is your CI, your counterintelligence, which is kind of your, hey, making sure that you are going to do anything against the United States. And then you get the fun. You get your full scope poly, and that's everything under the sun. What have you done since you were a toddler all the way up to where are you now? You have your kind of clearances that goes into the White House, your yankee whites, and, and then, and then you have kind of your black ops security clearances, which we don't talk about. So we talk about those.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:09]:
But somebody will come find us if we do, right?

James Dyson [00:04:12]:
Somebody will.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:14]:
And for the listeners, like, like we're joking about them finding us. No, they will find you.

James Dyson [00:04:19]:
They will. They will. They will from there.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:22]:
But that's found me.

James Dyson [00:04:26]:
Excuse me, sir, we'd like to talk to you about, but that's kind of your range of classes. But typically, most people are falling somewhere in between. You know, your, uh, just kind of minimum basic, uh, investigation up to your secret. Top secret. Top secret sei and going from there.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:45]:
So why is it so hard to find these people?

James Dyson [00:04:49]:
It's a combination of things. It's. It's. There is already so out of your area, there's already a subset of people that get to clearances. So in. So if you think about it as a kind of a pool of water, a body of water, there's fish in there. And then out of. Out of this group of fish, there is a select group of fish that have chosen to get this type of clearance for their job requires them to get that clearance.

James Dyson [00:05:15]:
So you take out of ten fish. Now you're going to take five of them that have these clearances, okay? And then out of the five that has the clearances, there may be two that are secret and three that are top secret. And then there's different levels in there and then gathering from that aspect. And the biggest challenge now with finding clear people is that, you know, I read a statistic, it said 92% of clear professionals are already working for a company. So you're not going out and finding them just in bodies of water out there. You know, there is, there is an 8% that may be kind of floating around or in between jobs or something like that, but they're already work. And especially in this day and age, you're not finding clear people to say, hey, I see you're looking for work. Come on over here.

James Dyson [00:06:10]:
We're going from there. You're, you're typically having to steal them from another company. You're having to get them to leave their job and take a job with your organization. So that's why your typical kind of recruiting approach. Or people, when they think about going and recruiting cleared individuals, you have to have a different mindset of going at them because they're already working. So, so now you go from recruiting them to kind of selling them. You know, it's like you're looking at kind of, hey, this person may be a free agent in the next year. Maybe their contract is coming up.

James Dyson [00:06:47]:
Maybe they're getting tired of this company. You know, something's going on from there. So how do I attract this person over to my organization? And I think that's, that's the first step in understanding of how to recruit clear people is how do I attract these people to my organization?

Benjamin Mena [00:07:06]:
Well, and like, I know one of the things that I lean heavily on is mission base because most of these people that support the federal government, they're very mission driven. Or they, if they were money driven, they wouldn't be supporting Govcon, right, right. At least not anymore. Like, I used the, the full scope hallway used to be Willy Wonka's golden ticket for job security and money in the DC metro. And then the tech companies moved in and everywhere. It's not the golden ticket anymore. It's like, how do you sell these cleared candidates on a position?

James Dyson [00:07:46]:
Yeah, so you're exactly right. They are mission driven. They're focused on how they are able to help the country achieve its goals and what they want to do for that particular agency or any agency from there. You know, you're, most companies and most companies are coming in there, they're describing themselves as very mission driven. Organization candidates might be mission driven, but they're not company driven. It doesn't matter whether it's a large integrator or a small integrator whatever. What are you bringing to the table? So a lot of times when my approach is always starting with the organization and say, okay, what makes you different as, from your competitors? How are you different? You know, and I'll hear companies say, well, we have industry leading benefits. I'm like, okay, that sounds like to me, you have the regular benefits package that everybody else has.

James Dyson [00:08:40]:
You have nothing new. So what are you really doing? Are you giving them more pto? Are you looking to add more paternity or maternity? Type of leap into these types of, what are you doing different other than just offering them a job at maybe a higher salary because their salaries are already high as is. So it's not that. So what are you doing differently? And my approach is always working with organizations in this is that you, you either the work that you're having to do for that customer or client has to be specific to what that candidate is doing and why are you a better company than the company that they're already working at? So how, let's, let's sell these benefits. Let's sell, you know, if you, if you're going to talk about your culture, you know, because I always tell this is on my DNI side, culture and Dei and the actual things you do in an organization are two different things. You know, you, you could have bad culture, just, you know, and bring in good people, but it's what are you actually doing within your culture that impacts the outside? How are they able to feel it? And it can't just be a, oh, we have happy hours every other Thursday. We bring in lunch every other Wednesdays. Nope, nobody really cares about that anymore.

James Dyson [00:10:08]:
You know, it's, it's, it's a highly remote world. It's a hybrid world. So, okay. A lot of government agencies are trying to bring back workers into the organization now. So how are you treating them? Are you making it a hybrid situation? Do you, are you making it flexible for them to be able to come in? What's your selling pitch? That's the first thing I always ask companies is, what's your selling pitch? Because if the best thing you have to offer them is a job opportunity, you're not getting these. So we always have to look internally first to say, how are we better at branding and marketing the organization?

Benjamin Mena [00:10:49]:
Well, let me take this a step back. You're sitting there having to coach these organizations and try to figure out why they're even be able to find these people. That's a little bit of a different sales pitch, or maybe it is a similar sales pitch. But many times the recruiting companies are like why are you working with us here in the Govcon space? You're, why are you trying to figure out if you also want to work with them?

James Dyson [00:11:12]:
Right? Yeah, exactly.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:15]:
Like why though?

James Dyson [00:11:18]:
You're asking like why, why do they want to work with them? Yeah, you know, it's like why, why do they want to stay? You know, because part of, part of the clear people is so they are mission driven. So you know, so it's, it's being mission driven. These are the organizations, these are the go con, the contractors that are supporting the government and this particular agencies in these areas. So you know, on the side when I talk to clear candidates, I'm giving them advice on how to vet the contractor. It's like find out what they are actually doing in the organization. And I think a lot of times for the contractor, are they just, are they just adding bodies to the contract? You and I have talked about this before, like what value are they adding to the agency? Are they adding consulting value? Are they solving the actual agency's problems or is the agency telling them, hey, I need ten bodies to do this work and they need to have these skills and these clearances and they're just filling seats. Either side is needed and either side works well for the government, but it's beneficial for the candidate to know because that's typically how the company will treat them. If they're treating you as kind of bodies that are filling a role when that contract ends, depending on how good their pipeline is from a business development standpoint, they may not have a role for you.

James Dyson [00:12:45]:
So what's going to happen you now, five years or four years, you're going to be a free agent. So people are looking into that. And now especially with, with, with clearances, they understand this game, this kind of shell game that is being played with contracts now. So no longer can you sell as a company to say, hey, we are going to take care of you if this contract goes away. Okay, how are you going to do that, Mister Govcon? Because I don't see any other work that you have in this particular area. So where am I going to go if this contract goes awry or goes south? Where am I going to go? How am I going to grow in your organization? What's your pitch? Because if not, this is just a landing spot for me and then I'm going to go somewhere else.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:33]:
Well, okay, let me take a step back. So a lot of people probably don't understand that government contracts are rebid on average every five years.

James Dyson [00:13:41]:
That's correct.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:43]:
So when people think of, like, safety in government, the government world or government contracting, like, people are literally, like, almost looking for a job every four years because of the contract bids. How does that affect you and finding these cleared candidates, these contract changeovers? Constantly.

James Dyson [00:14:02]:
You're constantly having to be. Now you have to just, you have to be honest with them. You know, I've always, I've always talked about the book, the book the alliance. And one of the measures that they talk about is when you treat people, you don't necessarily treat them as we treat employees. You don't treat them as family. You tell them the truth and you understand it's like this is kind of a contract arranged. You know, we're going to be coming in here. Our current agreement is for one full year, and four were option years.

James Dyson [00:14:34]:
So we're going to do, we're going to do a great job in each of these option years to keep you going, and then we're going to rebid at the end of five years. So companies get themselves in trouble when they are selling kind of the family, long term growth, long term stability in an organization to a job that is contractual by nature and the people that are coming in to feel that contractual. So when I have to talk to candidates, I'm telling them this is, this, this is what's happening, you know, because also from my reputation, I want to make sure that the pipeline that I have with my clear candidates stays full because they know I'm going to be honest with them and I'm going to be upfront with them and saying, hey, this is a, this is a three year opportunity. We don't know right now what's the long term effect because this is a new contract for this client, you know, so they may not have anything for you after this contract. So want to make sure that you're comfortable and understand where you're going that in three years, you may be doing this dance again. So, and, you know, and that's, and that's okay because that's kind of part of how government contracting goes. But working with candidates, you got to be honest with them because the rub comes in for so many of these companies that's like, oh, yeah. Like you, you know, we'll be able to, like, put you onto a different contract, and then next thing you know, you have like a, you got a cybersecurity guy with a clearance and in a small company, and they're helping out recruiting because you got no other place for them or they're helping out with, like, Hr.

James Dyson [00:16:19]:
Cause you have no other place for them. Then you start plugging them in places that they don't, they don't have any value. But because you want to try to keep them on as long as you have, you, you make them do things that they are comfortable in doing, and it creates this kind of animosity. And then all of a sudden, what are they doing? They're already looking. They're looking to lead.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:42]:
Well, okay. So jumping into finding these, these cleared professionals.

James Dyson [00:16:45]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:46]:
Where are some of the best places to find somebody with a secret clearance?

James Dyson [00:16:50]:
You know, there is the, there is the haven, which is clearance jobs. You know, that's, that is the biggest and largest kind of pool to be able to source in and find those niche areas. You know, I, I don't even know if some of the other tools still. Is clearjobs.net still out there being able to do that. I think it is. It's still there. But being able to target them, you know, building your own internal pipeline of candidates. So when you're posting your jobs out there as candidates are coming in, if you're getting clear candidates coming into positions, even if they're not a fit, treat them as a lot of time, as you see companies treat like branding and marketing.

James Dyson [00:17:32]:
You nurture those candidates. So you start kind of a marketing drip pipeline because you may not, you may need that candidate somewhere else. So that's how you kind of build your, I've always talked about like your invisible bitch of that you're, you're networking and finding them. I think I read somewhere either OPM or one of the other agencies have said, you know, it's like the largest, the largest target area for clear people is still is LinkedIn. So, you know, so are, is, are people putting, you know, they don't, they don't put that they're cleared on LinkedIn. So how do you find that they are, that they're cleared? You use different sources to be able to identify companies that they work at, to be able to identify the types of organizations that they say that they're doing work for. Probably if they're working for khaki and they're working in the Maryland area and they're doing some type of cloud or AI type hyper resource and they're in, let's say, the PG county part of Maryland, you can probably safe to assume that they have a clearance. And part of that is just repetition and being who you're hiring, understanding the market that you're hiring in.

James Dyson [00:18:50]:
They used to have a lot from, you could say like job fairs, whether they're virtual or not. Now, it's not as plentiful as we'll say when we, when we were in it back in the day. There's still, there's still some virtual ones, but how many people are really attending to get kind of the bank for the buck? Because, again, remember, 92% of these people already have jobs, so if they're there, they may be there just kind of browsing around. But are you going to find the specific person that you, you need? It's really being able to create a brand for the company that you can start to attract these people to you. And I'm drawing a, drawing a blank on one of those tools. It's a newer kind of AI tool. You and I have talked about it, that enables you to kind of scrape, whether it's LinkedIn or seek out. That's.

James Dyson [00:19:43]:
There you go. I was like, I knew if I kept talking about it, it would come to me. Seek out has a kind of a cleared resources aspect of the tool that allows it to kind of do what we said, like kind of find some of those people in those areas that you would necessarily look for. But, but those are kind of the main areas that I'll say helps to find clear people and get.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:08]:
What about those, those super high level security clearances like the CI poly and the full scope poly? Where do you find those people at?

James Dyson [00:20:16]:
Yeah, you know, when you get down and you pray every night, you just hope that they, that's the big place. You know, it's, it's, if you have those type of positions, typically it starts, it starts that internal kind of pipeline that I say that you have. You know, clearance shop is a great place to be able to go out and at least find people who have those clearances. And then you reaching out to those people to develop your own network, your own pipeline. These people are not out on the boards. They're not out there. So you have to do a level of digging and network. You have to become kind of a like old school journalist where they would find a connection and then they would work their connection.

James Dyson [00:21:07]:
Like, you know, who do you know, I'm looking for somebody who has these types of clearances. Do you know people who have more, you know, CI polys, full scope polys in these areas who are people that, you know, that work on your project, who may be interested, and you have to develop a trust so that they know that, you know, if I send them somebody, you're not just gonna pull them down for some, you know, for some B's, you know, it's a legitimate role, but it's really working those networks outside of obviously using the tools and some of the new AI tools that they have, like seek out to be able to find, seek out embetterly to be able to find some of these candidates and pull them out. But it's really connecting with them and getting in touch with them and building your network or building your network as an organization.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:01]:
Well, and let me just take another question or take another step. Most of these people, like, you can't get a hold of them during the day, right?

James Dyson [00:22:10]:
Oh, no. No. Why? Because they're in skiffs. They're in skiffs. Their phone is in a, in a magical box locked away so you could send all of the email and the texts that you want and everything. And they're not intentionally ignoring you. They can't get to their phone because typically their jobs require them to be on site in a skiff. So if they're on a site and a skiff, they can't have any type of electronics that are going into it.

James Dyson [00:22:38]:
So you're calling and talking to these people after work at night at maybe at best early in the morning while they're driving into their job from that standpoint. So your hours that you're contacting them are essentially any other time except normal work hours because they, they just, they can't take it, anything in there, so they can't receive any outside electronic transmissions of any sort. So, so, yeah, so, you know, some.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:08]:
Of my favorite ways to that I've gotten ahold of these full scope poly has been like postcards and show, showing up to restaurants. What has been some interesting ways that you've been able to like, capture that highly clear talent.

James Dyson [00:23:21]:
Yeah, same thing. The, the diners nearby, I go to everybody's lunch somewhere out of the skip. So they're gonna go and the last thing they want to do is answer phone calls. Some of them will take them, but go there. Go to diners. Like if you know where, and everybody knows where the agencies are in the area generally, you know, you don't have to know them specifically. So if you know where the agencies are, go find about five to six different restaurants around there, quick stops where they can grab sandwiches. You know, not, you know, we're not, we're not going to the luxury dining places because that's not where they're going.

James Dyson [00:24:01]:
You know, they're going to grab a sandwich and they're coming back and they just may be in line, but going there, talking to some of the business owners, hey, can I leave some of my business cards here? You know, can I, can I, can I leave information here that if people come by, like, they can just grab a business card and just go from there or sit down and, you know, kind of talk to people, you know, do you? You know, and that's going to be tough for some people to walk up to somebody who is, you know, minding their own business and go like, hey, anybody, you know, I'm a recruiter. I'm here looking for x, y, and z, if you happen to know. I'm gonna leave my cards on these tables and if anybody's interested, give me a call or come over and talk to me, you know, and it's like you want to do it and make sure that it's okay with the business, because the last thing you want to do is have, like a the business. There's like no soliciting in there. And they, you get kicked out, then they're like, oh, yeah, I remember you. You're that guy that got kicked out of a quick beta.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:59]:
There's a, one of the agencies in northern Virginia, they, like, a few years ago, right before COVID like a chick fil a popped up, and I'm like, this is a gold mine.

James Dyson [00:25:10]:
Absolutely.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:12]:
I mean, like it literally across the street from the gate.

James Dyson [00:25:16]:
Oh, my God. Yes, yes. Just sit there. Just walk around. Just ask one of the drive through people. Be like, can I just hang here with you?

Benjamin Mena [00:25:26]:
I actually thought about that. I'm like, should I go work the drive through for, like, I'm looking for this, like, tssci, a full scope poly, like, certain, like, AI person. I'm like, hmm. I was a data scientist. I'm like, maybe I could just hang out in the drive through chick fil a. I could probably find them quicker.

James Dyson [00:25:40]:
This hangout better than I'm looking for this person. If, you know, tell them to give me a call.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:47]:
Well, before we jump over to the second part of the podcast, is there anything else that you would love to share about finding highly cleared professionals?

James Dyson [00:25:57]:
You know, I think it's always just, I can't stress enough just being honest with candidates, because I feel in this day and age, that becomes your biggest tool in being able to connect and bring candidates into your organization or to your clients or to have them following you and being able to build that network up is if they feel that they can trust you, they'll not only come with you, they will open up their referral banks. Of who they know, and you're able to develop and get more candidates that way, then kind of any of these kind of crazy ways that we may talk about having to go out and find, but it's. Developing your own personal network is the biggest thing you can do in the, in the cleared environment.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:45]:
Down to cleared.

James Dyson [00:26:47]:
That's right. That's right.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:49]:
Well, jump. Jumping over to the quickfire questions.

James Dyson [00:26:51]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:51]:
What advice would you give to a recruiter that's just getting started in the industry in 2024?

James Dyson [00:26:57]:
You know, it's a, I think, you know, when we were coming along, it was kind of like, you know, learn your craft, learn how to call people, learn how to talk to people. I think now it's still learning. People learn the tools, learn how to be efficient with your time, you know, learn how to. And I also think with recruiters, they have to find your skill area quickly. You know, some recruiters are really good sourcers. Some are really good kind of client facing, and then some can kind of do a little bit of both. Find your area that you're really good at kind of as fast as you can, and just push it and exploit it. Like, if you're a great source or if you love sourcing and finding that, get with those organizations and just dive in to learn more about that.

James Dyson [00:27:47]:
If you want to be more client facing, you know, you're working with, whether it's in agencies and you're doing account executives, just, just learn from there. But the, I think the biggest thing is just as much, you know, listen as much as you can and just absorb from there. You know, it's. Recruiting is one of those crazy professions. I've still yet to run into somebody that has said, like, oh, this is what I wanted to do. Like, I wanted to come out and be a recruiter. You know, I talked to some people, that's like, I wanted to kind of do business as an agency or something like that. I'm like, okay, that's, but that's, that's not somebody who wanted to go work at an organization just as a recruiter, you know, so somebody lands in it somehow.

James Dyson [00:28:33]:
So.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:34]:
Well, same question, but for somebody that's been around the block 510, 15 years, what advice would you give to them to keep on seeing success evolve?

James Dyson [00:28:44]:
We learn, you know, the biggest thing now is, you know, you, you have a lot of AI tools. Learn the tools, learn what they can do, learn how they can help you, learn how they can make you more efficient in what you're doing, because that's the key. You know, it's, you know what, we always hear the stories of how, how AI is going to replace, and that's, you know, that's always the thing. And even before, even before AI became big, it was always, how are these tools able to replace recruiters? And no matter what, it will replace what a lot of recruiters due to a certain aspect, but you can't replace the entire recruiter. You can't replace the entirety of that human connection, of being able to have conversations about the role, about the company, the selling aspect of it. At no point, no, no bot is going to be, well, I take that back. Maybe at some point somebody's going to come up with a bot that's going to be able to sell you on stuff like that. When you can buy a Tesla from a bot, then, okay, we'll do that.

James Dyson [00:29:48]:
But until that time, you know, just, just learn how the tools can make you more efficient, because the faster you can do the admin stuff, the more you can focus on the human connection and the human capital part and to make you a more effective.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:06]:
Has there been a book that's had a huge impact on your own personal career?

James Dyson [00:30:11]:
I think I mentioned before probably the alliance, and that really kind of opened my eyes to understanding of how the struggle between why people kind of struggle with organizations, organizations struggle with people being able to connect to it. And it was just really, be honest, a long time ago, people took jobs because it had a longevity. And if I stayed at this company, the company was going to take care of me and my family. They had things like pensions. They had things that people are like, what is that now? But they had those things in play because that was the value that the company gave to the employee, and the employee saw the value in staying with the company for a long time because the longer I stayed with you, the more invested I became in the company and that they would give me money back at the end of it. You know, companies aren't doing that now because it's a hyper capitalistic system. And so, okay, if companies are going to be that understanding that that's how people have to be, you know, people have to understand their own brand. So the alliance is really about kind of understanding how you can forge the, forge that gap between the employee and the employer to figure out the common alliance that they have together, and that becomes mutually beneficial for both sides.

James Dyson [00:31:48]:
And just being able to see that holistically would help so many companies and help people understand the value that they bring and also for the companies as well.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:00]:
Awesome. What do you think has been a major factor of your own personal success.

James Dyson [00:32:06]:
My networks, my people, my connections, you know, I wouldn't be here or doing a lot of these things if it's not for, you know, the great people like yourself that I know and that have, you know, have. Have helped me. When there have been times that I'm sitting here looking at it, it's like, really not gonna find this person today or, you know, it's like you get tired. You know, it's. It's anything. You kind of get tired of it. So having somebody in the industry that's able to, you know, you can kind of talk to and confide in, finding a mentor that can. That.

James Dyson [00:32:43]:
That, you know, you can work with and bounce ideas off, you know, I. You know, I know you can attest. Many times I call you, and it's like, I got this hair brain idea, you know, whether or not it may work or not, but just getting it off and making and understanding that somebody is kind of listening to you just helps maintain your sanity and also kind of. It keeps your drive going because it doesn't allow you to feel that when you have failures, that it's all on you to try to try to stand up. So my network, that's the big thing. Friends and family that keep you going.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:24]:
If you got the chance to sit down with yourself and have a conversation with yourself at the very beginning of your recruiting career. I know I've asked you this question before, but I want to ask it again. Cause you're at a different. We're a different place in life.

James Dyson [00:33:37]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:38]:
What advice would you give yourself?

James Dyson [00:33:41]:
I would tell myself that it's okay to not be successful quickly. Like, it's okay to kind of grind it out at some places, because I think. I think there were times in the beginning where it was. If it was going to be a quicker move up than I thought, I jumped to it, and where I could have maybe could have. I maybe could have stayed in some places and it would have been provided a little bit longer term success, or there would have been a different path. I would allow myself, grace, to be able to say, like, it's okay to. It's okay to kind of stay here and learn and go through some of the things. You know, I.

James Dyson [00:34:31]:
You know, I had a conversation. Somebody was like, you have a. You have a lot of experience, and I'm. And I'm like, that's a. That's a good and a bad thing, you know, because it's. It's. Is good. Because I have a lot of experience.

James Dyson [00:34:43]:
So I've seen a lot of things got a lot of gray, a lot of salt and pepper. But, you know, a lot of times, a lot of companies see that as a handicap. It's like, oh, job hops. He helps, you know, he goes from here, he goes from place today. You know, he's not, quote unquote, not loyal to the company. It's like, you know, every, everybody, everybody is looking to better themselves overall and, you know, people from a human brand. But I think I would just tell myself to give myself a little bit of grace. And, you know, there, there've probably been a couple of places I'd be like, stick around.

James Dyson [00:35:13]:
Don't, don't, don't, don't roll, don't go yet. Just stick around. Just, just kind of hang there. I'd have probably just been a longer mentor to myself. You know, that's, that's really what I needed. Just like a law, I needed. I needed a longer term mentor to kind of over various. So.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:33]:
Well, for the listeners, if they want to follow you, how do they do that?

James Dyson [00:35:37]:
Yeah, you can, obviously, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm all, you know, happy James Dyson junior on LinkedIn. You can find me there. You can find me on Instagram. I am James Dyson junior. You can go to my company website, which is www.thinkevolutionary.com. and those are, those are the big ways to find me. And then if you now, if you type in James Dyson for google, you're going to get the guy for the vacuum cleaner.

James Dyson [00:36:07]:
He and I fight for space. He's winning right now because, I mean, everybody's paying dollar 500 for that vacuum cleaner, or at least they were. I don't know if people are doing it.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:20]:
Well, before I let you go, is there anything else that you want to share with the listeners?

James Dyson [00:36:25]:
You know, we will both be at recruit DC, and so that'll be good during presentations there. So I think that'll be, that'll be a really fun time for us to meet a lot of people and connect. So obviously, if they see it in time, come out, but if not, you can always watch. I know they'll rebroadcast a lot of the stuff or definitely follow recruit DC and follow Benjamin Mena and the elite recruiter doing great things, doing amazing things. So. So just, uh, keep supporting and keep following them. So awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:58]:
Well, James, I just wanted to thank you so much for coming back on returning guests to talk about finding those clear professionals because there are so many companies looking for these people. You get the the recruiters constantly. They're like, hey, guess what? I just got a clear record. And you're like, cool.

James Dyson [00:37:17]:
Good luck.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:19]:
But thank you for sharing some of the secrets sharing for some of the things you know to help them understand help recruiters understand the wonderful world of cleared recruiting that both of us are in. So, James, thank you for coming back on and for the listeners. Keep crushing it, guys.

James Dyson [00:37:33]:
Thank you, boy.

Intro [00:37:34]:
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