Mastering Growth: Strategic Advice from Scaling 7 Recruiting Firms with Aaron Opalewski

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
Coming up on this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast.

Aaron Opalewski [00:00:03]:
Great to do direct hire business. You gotta have some reoccurrings to really get a multiple on what you're doing, specifically if it's just you, because if just you, as this great operator goes away, that person acquiring, it's gonna be nervous that, like, what am I left with?

Benjamin Mena [00:00:19]:
What's your thoughts on the overall kind of, like, future for the recruiting industry?

Aaron Opalewski [00:00:23]:
This is gonna be controversial to some, but I think. Welcome to the Elite Recruiter podcast with your host Benjamin, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership, and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:45]:
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Benjamin Mena [00:01:23]:
I am so excited about this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast. First of all, this is a returning guess, somebody that actually said yes to being interviewed way back when, when I was probably the only person listening to the podcast like seven times to make sure I got like seven downloads, like episode seven. I'm just so excited to have him come back on. Share what's been changing. Share some of the things. But here's the biggest reason why I'm having him on. Aaron is an expert in building a portfolio of companies and helping recruiting agencies scale. He's an expert at growing teams.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:55]:
He's an expert at really diving in, figuring out how a recruiting business can almost like double the revenue, double the profit margins, and also like, increase the valuation. So I am so excited to bring him back because so much has changed, so much has grown. And Aaron, welcome back to the podcast.

Aaron Opalewski [00:02:12]:
Hey, Ben. Thanks for having me back. It's great to be on. I was happy to be on back couple of years ago, and that's cool. We've had a couple conversations recently, and I'm grateful to be back. Thanks for having me.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:24]:
So before we jump in, Aaron is actually going to be the kickoff speaker for the finish of your strong summit. So make sure you get registered and make sure you go to that talk. It is going to be absolute epic. I put my full trust and faith in Aaron for kicking off the entire powerful week. All right, let's. Let's dive in. So we typically do a quick, deep dive into, like how you got into the most wonderful world of recruiting, but to save time, go back to episode seven. But what I want to know is what has changed over the past few years since we last spoke?

Aaron Opalewski [00:02:55]:
Wow, a lot changed. It was 2021 when we talked. We had just started expanding our vision of having a portfolio of companies. At the time, we had just started the second company, Spark Packaging. You know, we merged with another, you know, niche packaging company. We basically, over an 18 month period, what we did is we didn't acquire this company. They were at about 300,000 in revenue, maybe between three to 400, I don't recall exactly. But somewhere in that realm, all direct hire, and that's where they were at.

Aaron Opalewski [00:03:29]:
And so we looked at it and we decided, hey, we're not going to acquire this. It's too new. What we're going to do is we're going to merge. And that took a lot of trust and, you know, some conversations with. With the owners of that company. But what we did is the beginning of 2021, we took that business, put it into a new business, and over 18 months, rolled all of our packaging business from smart talent into that new company and success story. We did over a million dollars in sales in that company in its first year, over 2 million in its second year, and we've added reoccurring revenue stream to that company as well. So.

Aaron Opalewski [00:04:06]:
Right, so that was kind of going on probably when we first talked. You're just right. In the first year of that, you fast forward a couple more years and there's seven companies within the portfolio and there's similar stories to that. Sparktail. It's not niche we work in. At one point, what was 14 different sectors and over time, where we found opportunities and really the white people, the right founders to come in and be a part of what we're building and our mission and our vision, we've found a scenario to break off some of those niches, let these companies run them, you know, run that specific area, and then any business that talent's doing in that area over a period of time, we're rolling into that company.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:45]:
So, real quick, my memory could be, like, wrong on this. Yeah, I feel like I remember when we had that conversation back in 2021, that your goal over the next, I think it was five years, was to actually have a portfolio of seven incredible staffing companies.

Aaron Opalewski [00:05:01]:
Ooh, I don't remember if that's what we said at that point or not. We may have, but that's where we're at.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:06]:
I have to go back and listen again, but I swear to God I remember something like that. And I just talking about, I think the realization of like moving towards a goal, working towards it and actually achieving.

Aaron Opalewski [00:05:15]:
It, that's going to be crazy. I'm going to have to go back and listen to that to see if that's what we said. I can tell you very specifically right now, we believe that the vision within our portfolio is going to be 13 companies. And. Hey, why 13? Well, it's because we talked about the sectors that talent's doing and we kind of know the ones that we want to keep within talent. We're not going to force it. Right. But when we find the right situation, you know, the right founder, the right company to come in and acquire or merge, or, you know, if we find the right person within our organization to branch out and they have a need and a want, and I won't call it a wish, a desire to, you know, be entrepreneurial, we'll break some more of those off.

Aaron Opalewski [00:05:55]:
So we have that planned out. It's very specific, but we're not rushing it. You know, right now we're at seven. We went up to that last year, and this whole year we said, hey, we're not really going to acquire anymore unless something just falls in our lap. And it's completely right because we're now focused on doing, you know, what we talked about, how we grew packaging. Want to do that with all these entities. It doesn't mean anything if you add them, just add them. It's not a shiny object syndrome thing.

Aaron Opalewski [00:06:23]:
You got to be growing up well.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:25]:
And that kind of goes into the question with some of these founders that have merged or acquired, you have this entire infrastructure that you could just almost move into those organizations. But I'd love to hear from you. Why would a founder want to get acquired or why would a founder want to merge?

Aaron Opalewski [00:06:41]:
Well, try not to keep you here all day on this. There's multiple reasons. First and foremost, it just depends where that person's at and what they want to do. So if someone has a lifestyle recruiting business, I'll call it 1 million to 2 million in sales. Maybe it's a little bit less like, but they're living a good lifestyle, they're able to do what they want. That's probably mostly direct hire. There is nothing wrong with that. That's a great life.

Aaron Opalewski [00:07:07]:
It's a great living that you can make for yourself. That's why they call it a lifestyle business. And I'm not knocking it whatsoever. Not at all. So hear me on that. But if someone wants something more, if they want to grow that to where, hey, I want to add reoccurrings. I want this to be bigger than just about me. I want to learn how to build teams and get in some of these different service lines and do these different things.

Aaron Opalewski [00:07:31]:
Hey, I'm scared. On the contract side, I heard one of your episodes. I don't recall the person that it was. But they have like a capital company, right? Well, that's a way to do that. That's how we build our initial reoccurring revenues. So I'm not knocking it whatsoever. I think that's great. That's a great option.

Aaron Opalewski [00:07:47]:
Another option is to come in with someone like us, right. And get all the financing set up, get it way cheaper. That capital company is going to charge you by 20% to 25%. Ill just say it flat out. We do promissory notes at 10%. We cut the interest expense on a capital needed for our companies, which is a huge advantage because that extra 1015 percent is going to the bottom line, making them more profitable. So if someone wants to kind of expand past one to 2 million in direct hires, I think that's the type of conversations that we're looking for, and that's where it potentially makes sense. Don't let me talk too long on this.

Aaron Opalewski [00:08:29]:
I'm going to give you one other quick answer on this. So just pure mathematically, if someone's interested in their valuation, in their net worth, right. And expanding that, this may be something good to look at, because, again, you can make a great living, but when it comes to acquiring, if you only are doing. I heard, I think it's Diana Prince. Talk about this a lot on your podcast or her. And I have traded messages on LinkedIn. And I'm like, she's very right on this. And what do you know? She sold a business for, I believe it was $28 million.

Aaron Opalewski [00:08:57]:
She knows what she's talking about. And one of the things that she said is where it's great to do direct hire business. Like, you gotta have some reoccurring to really get a multiple on what you're doing specifically if it's just you. Because if just you, as this great operator goes away, that person acquiring, it's going to be nervous that, like, what am I left with? They're probably right. So there's just, it's not a knock. If anything, it's a compliment on that person's ability to build relationships and how talented they may be and unique to their space. Right. But that doesn't help you on your valuation.

Aaron Opalewski [00:09:32]:
And so if that's important to someone, we're in a situation where, and I, we can get into it, but the short version is our goal is to be able to look at an operator and say, hey, you know what? I don't want you to leave. I want you here. I want you to roll into what we're doing. You have this niche, we do some of this, but you do it better. Come join us. Let's say that they're going to sell 50%. Let's just keep that math easy. And they're doing a million dollars in EBITda, right? Let's say they're doing a million dollars in EBITda.

Aaron Opalewski [00:10:04]:
All direct hire, I think, you know, and again, we're looking at these quite a bit. I think best case scenario, they're going to get like a million five for that, essentially book of business. We're probably going to get beat up, and it's going to be about one year. So they either not going to sell or they're going to be in a position where they're just like, okay, like, get it right. Like, I'm out. Well, in a situation where they give up 50%, you know, or they sell 50%, okay, they're going to get a payout on that. But as soon as they come into our portfolio, the way our operating agreements are structured, it's on a roll up strategy. Now, this was done with a legal team, and I took advice from someone that exited a staffing company for over $100 million.

Aaron Opalewski [00:10:51]:
Think it was closer to 150. And they poked, this was my strategy, but they poked some holes in my strategy, saying, you got to tighten up your operating agreements to pull up a roll up. So you get in the m and a world, the private equity world, there's roll ups. Right. Well, I want to be able to look at that founder and say, hey, you know, come in, we'll buy 50%. And yes, you're going to not own the other 50%. Well, you're going to be involved in the roll up. And so now, even if you don't do any reoccurrings, the valuation that you're going to get is going to be at a higher multiple.

Aaron Opalewski [00:11:25]:
That's the only way we'll sell. And you are now getting the benefit of all these other seven companies that are doing reoccurrings. You're now involved in that and you're part of the bigger portfolio. There's a lot more to it. So watch, someone will smoke me on that. That's out there like, yeah, hey, have another. I'm not going to sit here and talk to you for 8 hours about this. There's a lot more that goes into it.

Aaron Opalewski [00:11:48]:
That's the general idea. That's why you would do that. Because if I can take you in and you give up 50%, so, okay, you got a $500,000 value. Let's say we give you $500,000. So you got $500,000 cash on your million dollar value. Okay, now, I retained 500,000 in net worth because I own 50%. But instead of getting a one multiple, let's just keep it conservative and let's say it's a five multiple. I believe we're much higher.

Aaron Opalewski [00:12:17]:
Don't need to get into every detail on that. Let's say it's a five multiple. Okay, well, now that five multiple at, you know, 500,000 is worth 2.5 million. So I got $500,000 cash or whatever it is. So I got a payout and now my net worth went from a million to 2.5. I basically got $3 million check you're going to have taxable event and all that. But those are conversations that we're having. It requires a lot of trust in what we're doing.

Aaron Opalewski [00:12:45]:
We're not looking to sell. So if someone, we're looking to acquire, you know, if anything. So if someone was wanting to immediately cash out on that or anything, well, they're not going to get that.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:56]:
Still talk about like an incredible, like, going from like easy 1 million valuation to a quick, like $3 million of like, technically net worth. I don't want to say like overnight, but like just for podcast speaking, like freaking overnight.

Aaron Opalewski [00:13:08]:
Yeah, well, and that would require them to jump into our operating agreement strategies. You know, they can't. And some people may not want to do that, you know, but we had one business and we have six other businesses that are doing that and they're all, you know, okay, we got six other people that are doing that right now. You know, we've had some payouts to people above those multiples that I mentioned on shifts that's happened within the equity, you know, cap table. And we had an exit out of the cap table, too, which was not the easiest thing, like, we're still on good terms, but one of the things I'm happy about it is that these multiples we're talking about, like they're, they're paid out on those.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:46]:
Thats awesome. Ive seen you over the years, the conversations that weve had. Ive had conversations with people that have worked with you and you are so focused on people development, its kind of crazy. First of all, ive seen other founders talk about just money, money, money. And I know part of our conversation at the beginning was a focus on money, but why are you so focused on people more than anything else?

Aaron Opalewski [00:14:07]:
Well, this industry has changed my life, thats first and foremost, right. It changed my life. Change the trajectory of where my life was going. And I'm grateful for that every day. You know, I believe one of my unique talents is that, like, I can see someone doing something and I'll, hey, you know what? If they can do it, why can't I? And that is a good thing, right. But you have to match that with effort and consistency and that's something that God's blessed me with. Right. But the other thing, you know, I grew up not wealthy, you know, whatsoever.

Aaron Opalewski [00:14:40]:
At one point, I had $6.23 to my name. And again, this industry just changed my life. And as much as I believe that if I want to go after something, I don't know what just happened there on our screen. If I want to go after something, it could be achieved. I believe that's true for other people as well. Right. And that's what I'm passionate about in this industry. It's like whatever you want it to be, like, up to what are the biggest companies at this point? 1314, $15 billion that they're doing.

Aaron Opalewski [00:15:08]:
Guess what? Like, we can do that, too. Now it's going to take a big team and a bunch of great people working together towards a mission, but, like, why can't we do that too, you know? Right. So my goal when I look at other people is like, hey, not everyone's going to want like that at the ultimate level, but what level do they want that, like, coming into our system? Like, how do they want to grow? Like, what can we do to obsessively help them get there and then have the career paths, right. To meet people at their needs, know, wherever that may be.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:38]:
That was one of the other things I was going to ask you about is because in the recruiting space, there's a lot. So often you learn the skillset, you do the job, you make some money, and then you realize I could do this on my own. How can a recruiting company, a staffing agency, a leader, keep their best people?

Aaron Opalewski [00:15:57]:
And so this is where I got to that point. But my 1st 18 mods of narrow tech and things not have gone like they did. And we talked about this in episode seven. So go back, we won't talk a fun about it, but I never plan to leave. Like, I love it there. Like, my goal is to be the CEO there. And that didn't happen. You know, life happened the way it was supposed to and I'm grateful for that.

Aaron Opalewski [00:16:19]:
You know, I think what was meant to be was meant to be. But my first couple years in staffing as an owner, I struggled with this because, like, I want to grow. I want to give people exactly what I just said. I'm passionate about giving people whatever opportunity that they want. Right. But how did I do that when someone got that itch? Was I just going to lose them? Well, I had to figure out a way to put that vision inside of our big vision. And so that's where the idea came from to establish these portfolio companies to where, like, look, I'll get to this in a minute, but if someone has that itch, we can build the career path to get them there. At our executive search firm, we, we started that from scratch.

Aaron Opalewski [00:16:58]:
You know, we've merged with some companies, we've looked at some acquisitions, and we've just broke off some stuff organically because we're not scared to do that. Spark talent was built organically. My first company was built organically. We're not scared to do that. We're at a point now where I'd rather be acquiring companies at a higher amount because there's like, diminishing returns on your time. But our executive search leader, they started as an account manager in spark talent. They've been with us for six years. They live across the country, and they've sold one of the biggest programs in any of the portfolio companies history.

Aaron Opalewski [00:17:37]:
And they've learned a lot from that. And it's been cool to watch that advance and develop. And this person had an entrepreneurial niche. We had a joke about this when they took the role to lead ignite because they were trying to ask for equity. When they interviewed for us with spark talent and they had, no, no, that's not happening. But, you know, you fast forward six years and this person, they had a very intrapreneurial spirit and they did have that itch, right? But they weren't ready. And they even said that, like, man, I'm so much. You're never ready, by the way.

Aaron Opalewski [00:18:09]:
But, like, I've learned so much more, and I feel more prepared now. Like I would have failed, you know, back six years ago, and I'm ready to step forward now. And so we put them in that role, and they're now running that organization, and they actually don't have equity yet. They have performance metrics to meet, but they're on track to get to those relatively quickly, probably before the end of the year. So that's what we're doing. You know, having the ability where someone has that need or that want, and it's not going to be easy, and we're not just going to hand it out like candy, but we'll put you on that career path if you really want that.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:44]:
Well, and that goes into the question, and kudos. I've actually been following that journey, but for somebody sitting in an agency right now, they're just grinding away and sitting there making the debate of, like, hey, it'd be great to go make a jump myself, or maybe I should try to have a conversation with my leadership team and try to create a, like, intrapreneurship journey. Like, how do you go about, like, getting to there, and how do you go about that actual conversation?

Aaron Opalewski [00:19:08]:
I'm glad you brought that up. Cause I absolutely think that you should try and have that conversation, you know, with wherever you're at, you know, if it doesn't go well, you know, blessings come in and, like, then go with that. But, like, one of the hardest things, you know, for me would be if someone, like, left, went out on their own right without talking to me about it. Because if they really had that desire, I would give them honest feedback on where I think they were at. But I would lay out a blueprint on what I think they need to do for us to put them in that position. I just gave you one example where we did that with somebody. So I think it's a great idea to go have that conversation. I also think I want to, and I know a lot of your audience is entrepreneurial, and I think that's great, but I truly believe that the stat is like, 9% of people are entrepreneurs.

Aaron Opalewski [00:19:57]:
Like a lot of entrepreneurs. I want to give entrepreneurs some love. They don't get enough, like, finding the right company and the right, we'll call it the right rocket ship is so vital for this. We have people in intrapreneurial roles that are making way more than some of the entrepreneurs, like, just flat out, and I'll put it up against like that example that I gave you of that, like, million dollar, you know, someone doing a million to 2 million in revenue for themselves. Like, there's a lot of good stuff about that. But, you know, Ben, like, that's not all profit. There's expenses that go into that. And, you know, if you're trying to grow it, you're reinvesting into the business and stuff, and there's so much risk associated with that.

Aaron Opalewski [00:20:35]:
And, you know, just cause you had a good year in 2022 doesn't mean that 2023 or 2024 is necessarily gonna go. There's a lot of pressure, and as an entrepreneur, there is a lot of pressure as well. But you're not necessarily, well, you shouldn't be putting up any capital, or you don't have the same worries at night when you're sitting there tossing at 02:00 a.m. you know, it's a little bit more, I don't like the balance. You know, I don't know that, that it's just, it's not as intense. It's very intense, but not from a, like, hey, you're outweighing all these funds.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:10]:
I think that's perfect. It's just one of those things I felt for so often. The conversations I had, it was like the only option you had was going out on your own. But I just had a conversation with Jeremy Jensen last week, having a conversation with you, and I'm really glad that we're having these conversations about entrepreneurship, because I get it, Jeff.

Aaron Opalewski [00:21:32]:
Well, and I think there's different levels to that. You know, I think that the 9% of people that are entrepreneurs, it's like, hey, I'm 100%, you know, equity partner. I have no partners, or I have one partner or something like that. But, you know, that's why franchising is so important. And then, like, something like what we're doing, it's not franchising, right. But it's like, hey, you know, someone may have that itch, but they'll be better set up if there's a team around them to guide them on what they're going to be doing or they're going to jump into reoccurring revenues and to guide them or to give them a platform or, you know, whether it's capital or an operations team or all this stuff that's like, hey, you know, you're going to start doing this stuff like, well, you also got to build out and manage an operations team then. Do you know how to do that? I didn't. It took me about a decade to figure out how to do that at a higher level.

Aaron Opalewski [00:22:24]:
So I had to learn that, you know, and there's nothing wrong with that, but, like, some people may not want to learn that, or they might, you know, get frustrated and be like, oh, this is not for me. Well, you know, that's where you gotta, if you're going down that line, I think entrepreneurship doesn't get enough love. And, like, there can be, you know, finding the right level of entrepreneurship might be more sustainable for someone than going 100% in trying for a few years, having a hot year or something like that, and then getting smoke, you know, when things turn. Just gotta watch that.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:55]:
And I know we've talked about how your model is set up, but if you don't want to fully make that jump to your own business, but you love to be part of a mission, you'd love to be part of an organization, but your team doesn't want to actually give you that opportunity. How do you go about having a conversation with another staffing firm founder or someone else out there that you can almost walk into a bit of an intrapreneurship journey, or do you have to kind of earn your chops with that leader?

Aaron Opalewski [00:23:27]:
Well, I think that's a great question. I think a lot will be changing with that, with some of this non compete language and changes that are going out. I don't know when those actually go into effect. I'm pretty excited about that, though. Like, we have not competes non solicits, and then we'll talk to people. Right. That have them, too, to kind of get into your question. But I think the number one thing you want to do if you're having those conversations is if you're going to team up with the right people, you cannot bring, nor should you be talking about anything to do with your clients.

Aaron Opalewski [00:23:59]:
No lists. Like, none of that stuff. You have to stay away because even if these non competes go away, it's a nice, like, you see these little posts and stuff like that, and it's like, man, you have no fricking clue. Guess what's still going to be around. You're not solicit. So if you think like, oh, yeah, not competes are going away, I'm just going to download everything from my computer and steal it from my current. No, you're going to. You're gonna get sued still.

Aaron Opalewski [00:24:24]:
So, like, that's not going away. But, like, when we have conversations with people and even in their onboarding, like, it's in their onboarding, their offer letters, like, we do not want any information, no tools, no list, like nothing from wherever you were at. Right. We want you and we'll figure out, you know, how to do that. Like, we have enough accounts, you know, we'll figure out how to integrate you in, will keep you out of this niche if you have to be out of it for twelve months, like things like that. But that's why I'm so excited about the non compete part going away because I do think how creative you have to get with kind of keeping someone out of getting into trouble will loosen up. But the bad behavior on this is still going to be, you know, you still can't steal from people. That's what I look at that as.

Aaron Opalewski [00:25:09]:
So I would go into those conversations and I, you know, one, I wouldn't give out any of that information because as soon as someone does that with me, red flag. I'm like, if you're going to do this to your current employer, you would do it to me and we're done. You know, we don't think that matches our core values. Now, I think also you're watching like how, like if the company's directing you or asking you some of these questions, like, we'll start out those conversations, like, hey, look, just to be clear, like, we want to talk to you. We don't need to get into any your account stuff. Or I like we kind of frame the conversation that way because sometimes you're talking to people in their second job or something like that and they're learning this stuff. So I want to, you know, as a leader or as the company, right. You kind of got to guide them into like what could be.

Aaron Opalewski [00:25:55]:
They're still learning what good. It's the first time maybe doing this right. So I hope I asked your question, but I think you go into those conversations without sharing private information from your current employer and that's going to represent you well. That's what I would be looking for. I want to know about their acumen, their energy, their hunger, what they want to do. I don't want to know what their bill rate is that they're a client.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:18]:
I love that. And kind of like on the same question, but there's a lot of times like you see like these like people that are just top performers, you think they would be like excellent at kind of like building a niche around them within your business. But I. They're afraid to maybe even have those conversations. As a staffing firm owner, would you actually go start that conversation and kind of like plant some seeds or like, how would you go about like, I see a future in this person.

Aaron Opalewski [00:26:43]:
Like, what?

Benjamin Mena [00:26:44]:
What do you do with that?

Aaron Opalewski [00:26:46]:
Yeah, I'm always up for a conversation, and I think, you know, I have them frequently. You know, I still look at myself as the number one recruiter, you know, for our businesses. You know, we have almost 70 people at the organizations, and, you know, we're hiring, you know, always. And I'm the number one recruiter, you know, whether we have an internal recruiter or not, like, that's part of my role, so I'm always looking for conversations. We had a company that started in October of last year, and the person that is leading that company, the president, we competed against each other for a decade in this one industry at a high level. We're talking, you know, she was doing, I think, her best year at one of our. We both had the same big client, and she did over $10 million in revenue with them in one of our best years out there. So she's a stud.

Aaron Opalewski [00:27:34]:
We'd known each other and competed heavily against each other every day for ten years. And about four years ago, we started talking, you know, more like in a collaborative way. And I think about three years ago, I'm like, hey, you should come join what we're doing. And it didn't work out at that time, right, but we started having those conversations, and I. We weren't talking every day, but, like, I don't know, we probably talk, like, talk once every six months or something like that, just like here and there, not formally. And timing came together, things aligned, and where she was at, you know, some things didn't pan out. And she said, aaron, I'm ready now. I wasn't ready three years ago.

Aaron Opalewski [00:28:11]:
I'm ready now. And I'm like, let's go. And, you know, within 60 days of that, you know, we started this company. Now, I wouldn't do that with just anybody, right. But this is someone that sold probably $100 million in staffing services over a career. And I've known her for, at this point, you know, 1314 years, and I've got to know her better since we started working together. It's not like we're just jumping for anybody on that, right? But you got to be ready when timing alliance, you got to be ready for it.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:39]:
And so, like, when you're recruiting for an owner and you're looking at growing, are you having, like, those conversations with internal team members or you also having them with, like, people out there? Like, you just had, like, the example that you just followed both?

Aaron Opalewski [00:28:54]:
Like, I'm not going to get into it, but there's three or four recent guests that, like, I would love to partner with if it aligned, but there's no pressure, you know? Right. If that's supposed to happen, it'll happen. I'm not going to be overly salesy on it. My job is this. It's like people are going to work with people that they trust. They believe that could help them get somewhere and that they like. So, you know, what's my job within that? Well, the middle one, like, just establishing good relationships is what we do. Right.

Aaron Opalewski [00:29:24]:
So you want to be likable and you want to build a track record of trust, but the real thing that's going to make any connections. If someone looks at what we're doing and say, man, like, they've achieved x, y and z, like, I want to do that, too. Like, I think this person could help me. None of our operators are here just because I'm a nice guy or just because of this or that. Like, I think that's part of it, I hope. Right. And we built these relationships, but part of it is they say, hey, here's my vision. Here's where I want to go.

Aaron Opalewski [00:29:54]:
I think that being involved in this gonna help me get there. Doesn't mean it's gonna be easy, doesn't mean it's gonna happen overnight. But I see the track record. So my job is to keep growing these companies, keep doing what we're saying, what we're doing, keep building, and just let those things happen naturally within the conversations. If it's supposed to happen, it will happen. There's no need to push on that too hard.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:17]:
Awesome. I'm going to switch gears real quick. And this was like, literally, you know, something I was thinking about yesterday and I'm just throwing it out there. I've seen so many top performers in the recruiting space, like top performance company owners, top performance, like big billers. So many of them are healthy.

Aaron Opalewski [00:30:33]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:33]:
Do you think health has an impact on bike recruiting performance?

Aaron Opalewski [00:30:38]:
I think that long term it does, for sure. You know, if we're not healthy, you can't perform long term. Right. And I think we've all probably pushed it to where maybe we weren't healthy at a point. I know I did. Where at one point I'm drinking like four or five monsters in the day, like, early in my career, not moving around a lot. You know, I was like, I came from personal training, right? And I look up about, you know, a year into recruiting, and I was not in this good of a shape. I wasn't taking care of myself as much as I should have been.

Aaron Opalewski [00:31:09]:
And virtually I learned that lesson, like, after about a year of recruiting, but, man, I got it. I got to take care of myself a little bit more. Fast forward another, you know, 16 years, and I look at it like this now, like, we have this mission that we want to go achieve. It's going to take a long time to get there. And one thing's for sure, if I'm not healthy around, like, I'm not going to be here to see that achieve, you know, like. Like, we might not achieve it. So it's vital that I take care of myself. Now, do I think you need to do a five hour morning routine? No, I don't.

Aaron Opalewski [00:31:41]:
I don't. But I think you need to figure out how to be healthy. I think you should exercise. I think you want to move your body, and I think you want to watch what you put into your body.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:52]:
Yeah, just, it was a thought I had is like, you know, and I've seen your journey and it's just like these top performers, conversation after conversation after conversation, like, that is one of the keys that I've seen that I think a lot of people don't recognize or aren't thinking about.

Aaron Opalewski [00:32:08]:
Well, I think there's a lot of parallels and probably a lot of different things. But we know recruiting, right. In recruiting, like the discipline, commitment, consistency that it takes to be successful in recruiting, it's the same in the gym and with your health, with your exercise. So there's definitely really good parallels between the two.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:26]:
Awesome. Well, before we jump over to the quick fire questions, Aaron, is there anything else that you want to cover about, like building and helping companies scale building leaders?

Aaron Opalewski [00:32:37]:
You know, I'm going to go a different direction, if that's okay.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:39]:
Yeah, feel free.

Aaron Opalewski [00:32:41]:
And I'm going to share this. Now, who knows where we'll be at from the forum standpoint of this? We'll probably talk about this at the forum as well. But we are in a time, I think, that this is recorded right after the assassination happened last weekend on former President Trump. And I was in a call the week prior, and I talked to our team this Tuesday, but we are in a time where things are going to be very chaotic. There's going to be a lot going on in the world, at least between now and the election, if not far after that. And we've never been more distracted. You know, as a society, it's like, I think you absolutely want to be informed with what's going on. We gotta be careful not to be obsessed.

Aaron Opalewski [00:33:24]:
Right. And so you don't have control over all this stuff, but what you do control is your health, your productivity, at your work, at your clients, your team members, you know, in regards to, like, you have more control of what happens in the proximity around you. Right? So focus on your own personal excellence. Be informed, but don't get obsessed to the point where it pulls you away from what you're supposed to do in your career with your family. Like, don't lose focus. That's going to be at a premium right now. And the people that figure that out or power through this stuff, I think there's opportunity to come out on the other side of hatred. I think you're at just as much of a threat where if you are on axe, you know, all day long, and you're looking for updates on what's going on, and again, be informed.

Aaron Opalewski [00:34:19]:
But if you're listening to every single person's opinion all day and it's causing you to not get your points of contact out, you're not getting your subs, you're not getting your starts. Like, it's going to slip into your productivity, and this is going to compound on you, and that's going to happen to some people over the next couple months. It already happens. Right. Everything's trying to grab our attention, but it's going to be at a premium these next couple months. And I would just caution people to think about that. Be informed, but not obsessed. Focus on what you can control.

Aaron Opalewski [00:34:49]:
Go out and own your outcomes.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:52]:
I love that you said that. Absolutely love that you said that. Because one of the things that I caught recently is, like, I have an iPhone, and as a screen time, like, yeah, at the end of the week. And then you look at, like, where you spent the amount of hours or amount of minutes at the end of the week and what you could have done.

Aaron Opalewski [00:35:10]:
Yeah, man. I mean, it's so hard. Think about this. Like, back before we had all. It's just wild, you know? And I'm concerned about stuff going on, but, like, I only have so much control, you know, what I can control going out and making sure we perform and we put people in a position that are inside these walls and inside these companies to continue to grow, to earn more income so they can fight what's going on with inflation, so that they can have a good opportunity to continue to grow. And I have much, like, I control that. I need to focus on that. There's not going to be a lack of opinions out there on this stuff.

Aaron Opalewski [00:35:46]:
I can't listen. I need to kind of know what's going on and off for my own opinion and move on. If I'm sitting there all day listening to everyone's opinion, you know, I already know what Fox News is going to say. I know what MSNBC is going to say. You know, we know this stuff. Like, I don't need the opinions. Give me the info, I'll move on. I'll get an update every day.

Aaron Opalewski [00:36:06]:
I'm going to go about making sure that we get our stuff done.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:10]:
Yeah, if you want to get laugh. I actually have apps that block out the news between the hours of nine and 430.

Aaron Opalewski [00:36:16]:
Oh, damn it.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:20]:
The joys of being around the DC metro. I have to block it out or it's a distraction. I realize that. Well, jumping over to the quick fire questions, Aaron, and just with everything that you're doing with all your companies that you're working with, what advice? If you have a brand new recruiter that's actually just getting started on your team, somebody that hasn't worked in the industry before, what advice would you tell them and give them to succeed in our space?

Aaron Opalewski [00:36:42]:
Say, get really good at the fundamentals. You know, your in process, your sub counts, your understanding of your niche, understanding that the best way to understand and learn about your niche is through action. So getting on the phone and having real conversations. Absolutely. Use the tools, but don't get sucked into only using the tools. And don't be a one trick pony on you know how, man, I'm, you know, I'm really good at. Indeed. And that's all I do because you're going to be at risk, you know, with that.

Aaron Opalewski [00:37:11]:
You got to work on the art of recruiting. And you do that through reps. You do that through learning the fundamentals and then being consistent, just planned and just repeating those things.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:21]:
How long did it take you to figure out and learn the art of recruiting?

Aaron Opalewski [00:37:26]:
That's a loaded question because I think there's layers to that. Right. But I'll tell you, like, at the initial stage of recruiting, I was doing engineering recruiting on non automotive stuff out of Michigan. So a lot of that was ground vehicle defense or med device. You know, those were two of the main areas. I knew nothing about that the first three months. I was really battling with that mentally, you know, like, this is hard. I don't know.

Aaron Opalewski [00:37:50]:
Like, you could always make excuses, right? I don't know anything about this. I'm going to school for finance. They should make me a finance recruiter. Like, I would think about that stuff as you're struggling on these calls or at night. But I made the calls, and I was willing to fail. And I, you know, submitted to stuff that never went through and all these kind of, you know, things. Right. And I would bring candidates to my account manager the first three months and be like, no, that's way off, and here's why.

Aaron Opalewski [00:38:17]:
But I would keep coming back. And I learned something each time. You know, little by little, pick something up from this person, pick something up from that person, pick something up from this phone call, and just do this. Do the reps, you know, within three months, right around that, I had a breakthrough, and I started make some of those placements on mechanical engineers, systems engineers, electrical engineers, and something started to click in between that three to six month mark. And, you know, by the time I was at six months, I could get a rack. And if it was well qualified, I was going to have a submittal probably within about a half day. So maybe a little bit longer. So I think you just got to focus on doing the fundamentals and being willing to not know something.

Aaron Opalewski [00:39:02]:
But it's like, hey, what's the blueprint to learn this and be willing to learn some of it through failure?

Benjamin Mena [00:39:08]:
Kind of a going back to the original question, but for experienced recruiters, 510 25 years, what advice would you give to them to continue to see success?

Aaron Opalewski [00:39:17]:
Don't get stuck in your ways. As much as I'm saying, you know, do the fundamentals. Don't totally exclude, like, oh, I'm not using that tool. Come with an open mind. You know, we have a core value. Be humble, crave improvement. And so what that essentially means is that it doesn't mean that we can't be confident. Right? We should be confident, but I should know that there's always someone better than me, and I can always learn.

Aaron Opalewski [00:39:40]:
And someone doesn't have to be better or farther along than me for me to learn from them. They have unique skills, talents, and I got to watch this stuff. I can also learn from people on bad behaviors. I learned what to do. I learned what not to do. But you can always be learning from other people, and the second you think you can't, you're headed for trouble. So I don't know where that experienced recruiter sits at, but there's always room for improvement. Look for your cracks.

Aaron Opalewski [00:40:05]:
You know, look for the things that you could improve on. There's another level, right? There's always another level. How would you take what you're good at and put gasoline on that fire? How would you spark that.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:17]:
Awesome. Well, and kind of like talking about experienced recruiters, like, you know, what's working for business development right now?

Aaron Opalewski [00:40:23]:
Well, I want to try and answer this holistically. I think that so we don't have this experience. So we have a whole business development team, and we shut that off from like 2000, like coming out of COVID to the beginning of 2023. We had shut that off and we were just working on cultivating. So, like, the last time we talked, we were just working on cultivating the accounts that we have because we had over like 400 service agreements at the time, but we weren't billing 400. So key point. So we were working on that, right. And we worked on that for about two and a half years.

Aaron Opalewski [00:41:01]:
And then in 2023, we started a business development team again. So. And that's all they do. So our account managers are focused on their accounts. We have a team that just focuses on new business development. And so my answer holistically would be, you want to always be looking for business development. If you have a good account base in, your rocks are full, your rec loads full. I think you gives you the opportunity to be more selective on your business development and strategic.

Aaron Opalewski [00:41:30]:
You know, if you're running a solo desk and you're doing both, you're recruiting, your account managing, and you're doing some biz dev. Use the tools, right. Block in some time to actually make some calls, whether those top of funnel calls are coming from the tools or you're just, you know, doing it completely granule. Make sure you understand how to ask for referrals. You know, when you're doing a good job, you know, the best way to get a new client is to do a great job with the current client. And so you've got to deploy all those things. What happens in recruiting, I think, to a lot of us is we get hot and then we turn off that bit like, oh, I can't do this. And then you don't.

Aaron Opalewski [00:42:10]:
Then it's like you hit this lull and it's like, oh, I got to go chase more business. Like, you got to get that figured out where you're kind of always doing that. So could talk about that all day. We won't. That's a general answer.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:22]:
Awesome. What's your thoughts on the overall kind of, like, future for the recruiting industry?

Aaron Opalewski [00:42:28]:
Well, I think none of us know for sure. Right. So I can just give you my opinion. And this is going to be controversial to some, but I think, again, we want to use these tools and the technology that's come out and will continue to come out. It seems like it changes every month and there's some really good tools out there. But I think our industry is getting preyed upon in regards to these people coming in, overselling these things to us. So one of the things that we look at, and we have the luxury of this with our ops team is we have someone that is auditing our tools at all times for use. And so when we add this tool and this person, oh, man, I gotta have that tool.

Aaron Opalewski [00:43:06]:
I gotta have this many credits and all this stuff, and we give it to them. And then, Ben, what do you think happens sometimes?

Benjamin Mena [00:43:13]:
It's like they don't use it.

Aaron Opalewski [00:43:14]:
It's like, you know, hey, you know, you asked for this. We just saw that you used zero credits over the last two weeks. Notice I didn't say a month because we're not looking at it only once a month. We're on it, watching what they're doing with it. Oh, well, yeah, well, well, why did we. Like, you got to be really careful. Whether an individual or specifically, as you're growing a team, you can get shiny objects in your on these tools. And a tool may be great, but a tool that's great that you don't use isn't great at all.

Aaron Opalewski [00:43:42]:
It's just a waste of money. It's burning a hole in your profitability. So you got to be very careful with that, but you need to use them. And I just think personally, overall, you look what's going on within the industry. These big companies out there, the top five, they gobble off a lot of the more scalable things. So if you're an agency owner and you want to scale, right, something to think about is like, look at the SIA reports, all this stuff. These top five companies gobble up most of the market share in this huge industry that we're in. Right.

Aaron Opalewski [00:44:14]:
But it's a mature industry. It's very fragmented. Very, very fragmented. And so the only way that us smaller companies, and I'm even including companies that are over 100 million, a couple hundred million, like, you're still small. The only way that we're going to crack these bigger companies out of their market share is if we get better at collaborating together. Now, I'm not saying that everyone should jump into our portfolio companies, and I'm not saying we shouldn't do that if it makes sense. But what I'm saying is regardless of, like, there's other companies that probably will never be in our portfolio that I still collaborate with, we're sharing best practices. We're talking about things going on.

Aaron Opalewski [00:44:52]:
Hey, you know, here's a comp situation, or here's a tool we like, or you know what? We made this transition to this ats. Don't do it. And here's why. Unless you want to, you know, stuff like, dude, these five companies are having conversations like this all the time, and they laugh at us. They want us to frickin be at each other like that. Why? Because they own the market. They own the market. And until people understand that, that, look, I'm as competitive as you're going to find, but that doesn't mean that we can't be collaborative and find ways to help each other out and, like, look, yes, we compete on something, we're going to smash you.

Aaron Opalewski [00:45:28]:
That's my mindset. That's my mindset. But that doesn't mean what happens when people compete at a high level. You played sports. Yep. At one point in life. And when you compete at a high level, what happens to your performance? It rises. It rises.

Aaron Opalewski [00:45:43]:
And so that's the MO. Is that like. Yeah, like, I can be good friends. You know, one of my buddies out of Texas, you know, they run a great company, and we're not. We don't have our hub in Texas yet, but it's one of the areas we're considering. And when we do it, hey, it's going to be game out, you know, a little bit. But. But guess what's also true? Like, over the last three, four years, we've both grown immensely and we're sharing stuff back and forth on, like, what we think we could do to help each other out.

Aaron Opalewski [00:46:11]:
Hey, this really worked well. You can do both, you know, and that's what these companies do, and we don't do it. What happens is, you know, you got this recruiter and he's talking crap about this, like, dude, we're wasting our time, man.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:25]:
How did you find these buddies to almost run with?

Aaron Opalewski [00:46:29]:
So I really like the Vices group. So plug for Tom Kosnick and, you know, his crew. I'm not in it right now because I cut all travel for the year. That's not direct business because we are focused on growing these seven companies, and I'm heavily involved in that with the operators of the businesses, and I'm just not in the season. We're actually got an episode coming out probably right before this one on networking and kind of doing it in seasons. But I really like that group. You know, I've met some people that are running, you know, nine figure, you know, staffing outfits and have been doing so for periods of time. And, you know, we're on more of a centralized model.

Aaron Opalewski [00:47:09]:
And I just mentioned that we're going to look to open hubs, you know, some hubs across the country. We're working in 42 states. When we tried to do a decentralized model, we had nine offices and it just didn't work very well for us. It worked okay. Like we learned some stuff. There's good things that have come out of it, but we didn't fully execute on it. We're executing and growing much better on a centralized model. But it's great to learn from some of these companies doing 100 5200 million in revenue and, you know, they have offices all over the country, you know, some of them are light industrial, some might be tech like.

Aaron Opalewski [00:47:43]:
So you just, again, you can learn stuff from different people. So conversations like that, I think if you're in the right rooms, are very valuable. And so I really like Tom and what he's put together with those roundtables. Awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:47:56]:
Fantabulous. Has there been a book that's had a huge impact on your career?

Aaron Opalewski [00:48:00]:
There's been a lot. I'm going to give you two right now that I recommend. This is more from if you're leading other people. So that may not resonate with everybody, but so there's a book by Ben Horowitz called the hard thing about hard things and it's been extremely helpful for me in different situations that come up in running an organization. That book, I think Ben and I probably have some different points of view. And there you go. There's an example. Like, we have some different points of view.

Aaron Opalewski [00:48:28]:
I don't agree with everything in the book, but man, did I find some great nuggets within that book that I've implemented. And man, there's a lesson out there for everyone right now. It's like we don't have to agree on everything to be friends or to be collaborative or to like respect somebody. Like, it's okay. Like, dude, no one agrees with everything. That's what makes us individuals, right? So, you know, you can still learn from people. That book, the other book would be Patrick Blessioni's the Motive. Yeah, it's a really easy read, but the reason why I recommend it is because it dials into how to approach conflict.

Aaron Opalewski [00:49:05]:
And the number one thing that I see over and over again with any person that's leading another person within our organizations and the other companies that I'm involved with is that people struggle with this until they don't because you got to put reps and you got to learn how to do it. And people will avoid it. Some people will avoid this their whole careers. And so I think it's a great book that talks about how to work on that and the perspective that you should have as a leader in approaching conflict.

Benjamin Mena [00:49:34]:
Those are both great books, and I need to check out the second one. So you've had a ton of success over your career, your portfolio of companies growing. You're extremely driven. Like, you know, I've seen massive growth since we even with last spoke. And at the core of, like, you, what do you think is a huge driver for your own personal success?

Aaron Opalewski [00:49:52]:
I mean, I'm competitive as they come, but I think it's back to what I said about, like, dude, I just believe I didn't come from a lot and I got so much to work on and so many things to learn. Like, we've had a little bit of success and I'm passionate about continuing down the mission and vision. Right. Like, we want to have more, but I just believe that if one person could do something, another person can, too. And there are some limits to that. Like, look, like, I was a basketball player in high school, but I'm five six and, you know, I had a good basketball career. I was never going to be lebron james. So there are some attributes that, like, you have to be in a unique sweet spot for you.

Aaron Opalewski [00:50:30]:
So you need to figure out where your unique talents lie. Once you get into your unique talents, if someone else can do it, you can, too. Like, I believe that. So again, I hope that people hear that within the context. Like, look, I'm not going to go out at almost 40 years old, I'm 39 and be dunking a basketball at five six and make it to the NBA. Like, that wasn't my path. But within communicating with people at sales and recruiting and building, like manda if rants, dad if allegiance, if map, if they can do these things, what? Why can't we? Why not? So you figure out where your unique strength is. And I think, you know, that's been a gift for me is that that's my mindset and that I also believe that's true for other people.

Benjamin Mena [00:51:16]:
And that kind of goes into my next question. Like, everything that you've, you've learned, everything that you know, the ups and downs, the craziness. If you got a chance to sit down with yourself at the very beginning of when you started spark talent, what would you give yourself advice wise?

Aaron Opalewski [00:51:32]:
Aaron you can't please everybody, and you can't be for everybody. So embrace that. Be for the people that you're supposed to be for. Treat people well, but don't be a prisoner to try and be in, you know, vanilla for everybody. Be yourself. Go with good intentions. Go out and do what you gotta do. Let the chips fall where they may on how people view that.

Aaron Opalewski [00:51:53]:
So that. And I think I would also tell myself that. Remind yourself every day that, you know, hey, you might have done to you good things, but there's much to learn, and there's another levels, and there's always someone better than you. And never believe your press clippings, you know, completely good or bad. Like, focus on improving every day. Beat yourself. Understand you know, what you're shooting for, but never get, you know, I guess, too high on the hog. I don't really like that saying, but, you know, just, you know, don't get overly confident.

Aaron Opalewski [00:52:25]:
Be confident. Don't get cocky.

Benjamin Mena [00:52:27]:
Another question I want to ask is, I'm sure with what you've done, like, you have recruiters reaching out to you constantly. You have staffing, firm owners reaching out to you constantly. What's the question that you wish they would actually ask you, and then what would be that answer?

Aaron Opalewski [00:52:40]:
Well, I get a question around scaling a lot, you know. Right. And, you know, I look at, like. And I'm sure you experienced this, too. Like, people reach out to you and you've got all this great content out there, right? And you're doing this, you know, for free. And it's like, you know, I think what I'd like to see is someone, like, do a little, like, man, you put all this stuff out there. Like, why do you. Like, you really want to know this? Why don't you go do the work? Like, listen to what's out there, and then maybe come with, like, hey, I listened to this, or I heard you say this, or, you know, here's what I got from this.

Aaron Opalewski [00:53:15]:
And then, like, kind of ask a secular question to that. Like, I'd be much more receptive to that than it's like, you know, I have some people reach out to. I'll just give you an example. I have had someone that reach out to me, and they're like, hey, like, can I get on a call with you to talk about scale? I heard you on this episode. Can I get on, you know, a call with you to talk about scale of my company? And, you know, again, we are always looking at people for the portfolio. So, like, okay, like, I have to like, consider that. But, like, what I normally do now is, like, I want to. You want to be helpful to everybody.

Aaron Opalewski [00:53:49]:
But again, it's like, Aaron, you can't. Can't please everybody. Like, my time is taken off. Like, my time, my dedication to these companies within the portfolio of companies, my family, our clients, you know, the people that work, you know, for the entities. Like, all my time pours into that. I don't have time to have a coffee with you or a 15 minutes call or this or that. Like, specifically when you're asking me things, and we've already put out stuff that answers your question, you know? Right. So what I will do or what I did on one recently, I do this quite frequently.

Aaron Opalewski [00:54:22]:
Like, as we're doing more episodes, I have more ammo on this, but I'll be like, hey, no, I can't get on the phone with you for 15 minutes. I don't have the time allocation to do that. If you want to book a consulting call, here's my consulting rate. And that usually takes care of that, but here's the rate. But, you know, instead of just doing that, it's like, I feel bad about that, even though I maybe I shouldn't, but I'm like, hey, you know, here's two or three episodes that we've recorded. I recommend you listen to them because I think it'll help you out. But what would I like? That they would come to me and be like, I listened to these episodes. Here's my questions.

Aaron Opalewski [00:54:58]:
I'd probably give that person an answer just because I respect that they are putting in the effort. I hope that.

Benjamin Mena [00:55:04]:
I think that's great advice. I mean, it's one of the things that I think a lot of, like, founders and even people that are, you know, guests on podcasts, like, you know, you're dealing with clients, your family, all this time, and then, you know, you just. Did you do a little bit of homework?

Aaron Opalewski [00:55:17]:
That's what I would like, you know, from that, I'm sure that's probably a similar answer for you. It's. Man, we just talked about this, like, a month ago on this episode. Like, they're clearly not listening to my show.

Benjamin Mena [00:55:29]:
Well, and one last question, and, you know, and then we'll kind of get this wrapped up. But, you know, as a founder and you're scaling, you've gone through a lot, like, ups, downs, lessons learned, you know, relationships. How do you get through some of those hard days and hard weeks?

Aaron Opalewski [00:55:42]:
Oh, yeah. Well, we have a core value. You know, conquering adversity is the recipe to success, you know, and I believe that to be true. I think you learn from your failures. Like, at birth, adversity makes us stronger, but you have to, you know, that's only true if you stick with it, you power through it and you execute, and then you really learn from it. It makes you better, brings you to the next year. So we have another one. Mindset is the foundation of excellence.

Aaron Opalewski [00:56:08]:
So what's the best way to approach that? When something, and I think this gets easier, it's not the right word, but you get more effective or more efficient at doing this, the more that you create these wins and momentum in your life, it's like the second something less than optimal happens, which the more success you have, the more that will happen. It's going to happen every day, and it's how you choose to approach it that's going to matter. So every day you're going to come up against some kind of adversity, and the more success you have, the more intense that's going to get. You have a choice when that happens. Am I going to pout about that or how long? It's not even just if you pout for a little bit, how long? The quicker you can frame it where it's like, boom. Like, what can I learn from this? You know, what's good about this? You know, how do I take, you know, a positive from this? Like, hey, this sucked. You know, I just got, like, unloaded on this. We just got punched in the face, but, okay, let's wipe the blood off my mouth real quick on this.

Aaron Opalewski [00:57:01]:
And, like, what do we learn from it? How do we get better? How do we avoid that the next time? What can we rate from that? Like, the quicker you can get in that mindset, you win. And you see that in all elite performers. You know, that's true in sports. It's true for pitchers, it's true for cornerbacks, it's true for quarterbacks. You know, if you're throwing an interception and the next time you get on the field, you're still sulking, guess what? Those are the guys that only make it a couple years. They have all the talent in the world, but they don't get this down. Why is Tom Brady the best of all time? It's because there's a skill set, there's a unique talent, but the effort, the consistency, and the mindset is what sets them apart. You'll see that in all elite.

Aaron Opalewski [00:57:42]:
So that's true in sports. Make sure it's true for you, you know, and whatever you're doing be a lead in it, right? So, like, that's true for us, too. We have to figure that out and go attack it. Awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:57:53]:
Well, Aaron, I feel like I could, like, ask you questions for another hour or two, but I know you only have so much time, so, uh, be before I let you go, if somebody wants to follow you, how do they go about doing that?

Aaron Opalewski [00:58:04]:
At Aaron Opelouski, we're on Instagram. We're on late end Aaron Opelwski with the YouTube channel that's under my name. And we have all the sparking success episodes under that. I'm on access some of those other platforms, too, but most of our stuff's done on LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube.

Benjamin Mena [00:58:23]:
And also make sure to check out his podcast sparking success on Spotify and Apple, I guess. Well, Eric, before I let you go, and I got an episode coming up with him, too, so definitely listen to that. Subscribe before I let you go. This has been a power packed episode. Is there anything else that you would love to share with the listeners before I let you go?

Aaron Opalewski [00:58:46]:
You know, I think we covered it. You know, I think we covered it in that, like, focus on what you can control. Lot going on right now. Just, you know, if you can keep your focus, keep your attention on the things you could control, you're going to be in the best position to win. And I think that for those of you that are, I'll leave it with this. Those of you that are maybe struggling this year or having a harder year, part of it is sticking with it and powering through. You got to be learning from your mistakes. But there's waves to what we do in recruiting analogy that I like to use is you have to be in the water to catch the wave.

Aaron Opalewski [00:59:26]:
If you're on the sidelines around the beach, if you're in and out of like, should I do this or nothing? You're going to miss it. By the time it's talked about, it's too late to jump back in. You missed the wave. That doesn't mean you can't go back in. But the people that are in the fight in the water, surfboard ready, like they're going to catch that wave. People that are sitting on the sidelines.

Benjamin Mena [00:59:45]:
They'Re going to miss it so good. Well, Aaron, I'm so excited about this episode going live. I'm so excited that you are kicking off the finish, the year strong summit. It's going to be a power pack week. And once again, I'm so glad that we got a chance to talk again. Like I said, I think I was the only listener of that episode way back when. I probably listened to it ten times to get over the ten downloads, but it's just, I'm so excited that people get to hear your story again.

Aaron Opalewski [01:00:09]:
I'm grateful to be on. I just got to say, like, what you put together is special. And, you know, that's one of the things I said a couple times. I love listening to your podcast because I hear different perspectives. Like, you always got to be learning, and I'm hearing just different perspectives. Here are people with different unique talents, and it's just you've created a great community, man. Amazing job. And one of the things that you've done is you've been disciplined, you've been consistent with it, and look at what it's become.

Aaron Opalewski [01:00:35]:
There's so many good business lessons in that. I'm just happy for you.

Benjamin Mena [01:00:39]:
Awesome. Well, thank you, man. And for the listeners, I want you to keep crushing it. I want you to make 2024 your best year yet. So let's go get it, guys. Thank you. It's.