Mastering Content Creation for Recruiting: Insights with Chris Schwenk

Chris Schwenk [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Elite Recruiter podcast with your host, Benjamin Menna, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership, and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:20]:
A few quick announcements before we get started. First of all, the recruiting growth summit is back. It's bigger, it's better, and it's going to help you finish the year strong. Registration is in the show notes, so if you scroll down, hop in the show notes, make sure you get registered. Registration is free, but if you. If you've. If this podcast has made an impact on your life, if this podcast has made an impact on your business, make sure to sign up for the vip because it is going to be epic and you want to get those replays to watch over and over again. All right, well, let's dive in.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:53]:
I've been looking forward to this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast because there are very, very, very few recruiters that are able to do what Chris Schwenk is doing. Like, when I'm talking about very few, there are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of recruiters across the globe, and we all really suck at content. Like, I suck at content, and Chris is just out there literally producing some of the best content that I have seen when it comes to the recruiting industry. So I'm excited to have him on the podcast. I'm excited for him to share, not only share, what he's doing on the content side to give you some strategies, how he's been able to monetize a podcast. And maybe I need to take some tips on this, too, figure out what I'm doing with this podcast, but also, like, how to like the stuff that's winning in the bd world that's working. So, Chris, welcome to the podcast.

Chris Schwenk [00:01:41]:
Yeah, we've been talking about this for a while. I've been looking forward to this one.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:46]:
And I think somebody shared one of your Instagram reels or TikToks. One of the things I was just like, holy crap, this is next level production quality that I do not see anybody. I see it in real estate, I see it in finance. I see it all other places. But you're probably one of the only people that's doing it in the recruiting side of the house. Actually, I probably know five people doing it out of the hundreds of thousands of recruiters out there.

Chris Schwenk [00:02:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I moved to Miami two years ago, which. Which we can get into, and this is what kind of everyone does in Miami, but I didn't really see many people in our thing, doing it this way. So because everyone says you have to do content and you're leaving so much money on the table. And I just, I'm thinking about the type of people that I target, especially I do. I'm in the tech recruitment space and I'm like, you know what? A lot of the people I do business with are only on LinkedIn. So I don't know if going to Instagram and TikTok, I don't know.

Chris Schwenk [00:02:45]:
But then I decided to jump into it and it's been, it's been some surprise. A lot of surprises, I'll say, good and bad. So we can get into that. That's awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:54]:
So let's, let's first get started. I'm super interested in your background and like, how you even got started in recruiting because you started off in money laundering.

Chris Schwenk [00:03:03]:
Yeah, no, so, so that was, that, that was kind of just like a attempt job out of college. That was just like a short term thing. And then, yeah, it's, you know, like everyone, every person you've had on here. I fell into it, though. Uh, yeah, Naber was a part owner of a company and I didn't know anything about, well, listen, no one, before you get into it, no one really knows about recruitment. I didn't know anything about tech. I didn't know anything about recruitment and gave it a shot. And here we are, many years later, 17 years later, still doing it.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:37]:
And for the listeners, you're mostly on the tech side of the house, mostly on the staffing side, right?

Chris Schwenk [00:03:43]:
Yeah, yeah. So I've operated mainly on those kind of large, vendor less Fortune 500, up to Fortune 1000, then some mid level client. And yeah, it's a bit different than a lot of the solopreneurs you've had on and, and some of the smaller companies that are targeted in a niche. And because you get on these vendor lists and they're like, okay, great, you do software development, but we have a Linux admin open here, so go find someone. And you're just like, okay, so there's, SLA is involved, so you have to be flexible. And really, as we were talking about before we started, I don't turn anything down. I know other people have different approaches, but someone says, can you find this? The answer is yes. And I try to figure it out.

Chris Schwenk [00:04:33]:
Sometimes I do, sometimes they don't, but the answer is always yes.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:37]:
And I just got to, for the listeners, take a step back. If you're on a vendor list, you're probably also, if you keep on saying no, to stuff. They might take you off the vendor list.

Chris Schwenk [00:04:46]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because they expect they want their vendors to all compete to find the best talent, and then the best person will win out. So if you're not interested in certain roles, then they're like, okay, well, what do we need you for?

Benjamin Mena [00:05:02]:
So, and I kind of want to just dig in a little bit. So you grew with a firm, like, you started off, like just grew the firm for a long time and then you decided to make a little bit of a jump yourself, right?

Chris Schwenk [00:05:13]:
Yeah. So I was with my firm, open systems technologies, for a long time, and I'd become their top guy for a couple years and just kind of like, what do you do next? Because I was, you know, again, I've worked with big companies, mid size, small companies, and one company. You know, you get a client and then you lose a client. You know, it's just kind of just like, it's kind of just on the treadmill a little bit. So kind of had the itch to start my own thing, and I went to them and kind of talked about that and they said, okay, why don't you start your own thing, but we'll be your back office. So you're the front, we're the back end, and you still have access to all of your clients, all of your commissions. And, you know, and then I can still kind of still get paid to. I want to recruit on one of their open roles, though.

Chris Schwenk [00:06:07]:
Been an amazing setup for hopefully both of us. But that was right before COVID and just kind of in the vein of I dont turn anything down the rip before COVID I got into a clinical research company. Its like 2019 fall and wed talk to the vendor people and it was like, hey, what type of volume are we thinking? Like theres a onesie twosie three z, four z kind of rec flow a month and theyre like, yeah, about four a month. Well, six months later it became a hundred wreck a month. I mean, it was just like we, you know, because they needed, they needed people. You know, they were involved in the COVID vaccine research, but they needed sample coordinators, they needed nursing assistants, they needed all this stuff. And again, I was full on tech my entire career. But we figured it out and, you know, a multi million dollar account for a couple years now, better than kind of now that we're kind of going to be past Covid, that's gone way down, which we can discuss.

Chris Schwenk [00:07:12]:
But, yeah, it was a wild ride and I just kind of just said yes and we'll figure it out. So that's what we did.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:19]:
And if you said, hey, that's not my niche, like, how much money? You don't have to give exact numbers.

Chris Schwenk [00:07:25]:
But, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, seven figures. Had I said that, that would have been a seven figure mistake. Absolutely. So I'd rather try and fail than, you know, you'll figure it out. So that is.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:41]:
That is absolutely crazy. And this was, like, after you pretty much jumped off on your own, too, right?

Chris Schwenk [00:07:44]:
Yeah, yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:46]:
Was it great having that kind of. That back office support with that kind of volume?

Chris Schwenk [00:07:50]:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's no way I could do that on my own. It was. I still had access to a couple of their recruiters as well. And one guy, Vince Conan Valley, he was my top guy. And on the fly, he built a network of clinical people. Like, I've never seen, where he would put their posts up on LinkedIn, and it would be shared by multiple groups, and he'd have 20 resumes just, like, within a couple hours. And it was insane.

Chris Schwenk [00:08:19]:
So, you know, which obviously, we can talk about that as well. But the power of LinkedIn and then growing networks, and before we go into.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:28]:
That and the content creation, you hit something that I think is super important. First of all, a lot of highly successful recruiters are working at an agency. They get to the point, they're like, what am I going to do next? And you went and had a conversation with your executives about what to do next. And I really. There are other companies that I've worked for before that. Even that conversation, they would have walked you out the door.

Chris Schwenk [00:08:53]:
Yeah, yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:54]:
But they've, like, figured, found a way to make it a win win and, like, not, you know, not burn a bridge. Like, what advice would you give to an executive that's like, if somebody comes into their office and be like, I want to do something more.

Chris Schwenk [00:09:08]:
Like, yeah, well, I think most of the compensations for a lot of these companies are obviously the salary plus counter, you know, the commissions on top. And, you know, what I went to was just, hey, everything I bring in, I'm getting this percentage. No salary, no, you know, they're paying my llc, so there's no benefits as well. I take care of all that stuff on my own. But that was the route I went, and I wanted that. Honestly, I was kind of bored, and it was just like, hey, let's jump out. No parachute. And, you know, if I do really well, it'll go really, you know, it'll be really in my favor when things pull back.

Chris Schwenk [00:09:51]:
And it won't be. So it'll kind of force me just to be, you know, hustling more. Awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:57]:
And then, you know, jumping now towards the content creation side. Like, first of all, for the listeners that haven't seen your content, like, it's top quality. Definitely follow him on. Follow Chris on Instagram and, you know, to see what he's doing. But, like, why'd you. I get it's a cool thing in Miami, but why'd you go all in?

Chris Schwenk [00:10:16]:
Yeah, I had hesitated for a while just because I, you know, because everyone said, you have to. You have to do it. But I just couldn't make the connection of basically every. I looked at all the business I'd ever done, and it was like, it was always done one way, through email, LinkedIn, or cold calls, or, you know, kind of someone I met up. And this. This is kind of just like a whole new space for what we do. And it's totally different. You know, I mean, you put something out there, maybe no one sees it.

Chris Schwenk [00:10:47]:
Maybe a lot of people see it. And I think one thing I'll say about the content, I always was, you know, I see all these people. I'm making all this money off social media, Miami, on work, recruitment. We're just. We're behind the times. But then when I thought about it, I'm like, you know what? Think about all the times. Because I like to post all my open stuff on LinkedIn. Any open job I have, I advertise, because then it's like, at least even people aren't looking.

Chris Schwenk [00:11:12]:
They know I am a source of potentially open jobs in their space that they're in. So they'll keep, kind of. Will keep their eye on me. Okay, maybe not this one, but when it pays 100 an hour. Okay, now I'm going to call this guy. And I've gotten clients that way. Just. Did they see me posting? Like, hey, I have a need over here.

Chris Schwenk [00:11:33]:
Like, you're filling these. Exactly what I have. So, yeah, again, in a lot. In some ways, we're behind at times. Some ways, we were doing this ten years ago, so in some ways, recruitment is ahead of the time. So kind of thought about that. I was like, yeah, okay, let's give this a shot, something new. And honestly, and obviously, we're gonna get more into that, but it's like, I think one of the biggest benefits, and we're two guys that are out there, like, you know me, you are out there on social media, in the recruitment space, and even people in our network, like, there are.

Chris Schwenk [00:12:10]:
There are people hiring, like, maybe two degrees from people we know that, like, even we're not getting to. So the good thing about putting the content, you're just, like, kind of reminding people, maybe you don't need me now. Maybe your hr at some company is we can't find anyone for this job. Hey, I know a guy, but I got Ben, right? Like, he can help. For me, that's been the biggest benefit. Not necessarily. Like, you post some content and then Apple calls you and says, hey, we'd love to have you on our vendor list. Kind of just people you.

Chris Schwenk [00:12:48]:
All right? People you lost contact with eight years ago, and they'll say, like, hey, oh, that's right. You do that. Yeah. Hey, my company has an opening when you help us. So people in your network, like, you're missing out on that. You're not posting stuff.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:05]:
And it's one of those things, like, I feel like very few recruiters are out there, like, creating any type of content. But I. One of the most surprising things recently for me is don't laugh at us. Like, a LinkedIn article from a few years ago has still brings in, really? Who still brings in, like, leads, like, people calling us up because of it. So it's really like, trying to, like, I love what you said. It's. It's kind of, like, also helps with, you know, people that have been your network that you've dealt with years ago. That's just like, a quick reminder.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:37]:
Oh, crap. Hey, Chris can help us.

Chris Schwenk [00:13:40]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for me, that's been, you know, I wasn't sure how it worked because other. Our industry is just different than a lot of industries, especially, especially what I do where it's like, people are like, you hear all these salespeople, setters, closers, and it's like, you know, technically, like, when you. When the agreement is signed, now you can start to do business, and now you tempered that category. Not, like, not over when you signed, the agreement just started. We're just. We operate a bit differently, but it can be very lucrative, obviously.

Chris Schwenk [00:14:14]:
Yeah. I mean, it's, I don't know, maybe we could talk about how, like, it evolved.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:18]:
Yeah, do that.

Chris Schwenk [00:14:19]:
Yeah, yeah. Started posting and, you know, people were like, oh, this is cool, but a lot of people, I don't know about you, but I don't really deal in entry level role. Companies don't come to me for those at all. They don't need us for that. They're not going to pay fees for that. But I was getting a lot of entry level people and they're like, hey, I see you. Because I started to post a lot of financial stuff. Okay, here's what this job pays with.

Chris Schwenk [00:14:41]:
This job pays and people are like, I want to get into that. Like how do I do that? I'm like, I don't know. I only deal with people once they have, have the skills. So I had to kind of go back and do research and they're like, you know, I'd be, I tell people like do boot camp or I know people do boot camps. Well, which one? I'm like, okay, good question. Which one? So I had to kind of research figure out, you know, which ones of the bootcamps were kind of giving people the right skills, which summer frauds and scams. I had to kind of avoid that. And from there I started to kind of turn the content itself into a business where, which is what I would if people were going to dive into this space as I had turned the content into its own business.

Chris Schwenk [00:15:28]:
And then, and basically start slowly having it pay for itself. And then you break even and now you're, you're basically getting your name out there for free. And then as you more you do that you're actually getting paid to do it and from there you're making a lot of money to do it. And then it's a full on second business. You have that feed the recruiting business right now.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:50]:
Ash, I was gonna say like so like what kind of content are you producing right now for it to feed back into the business and start paying for itself?

Chris Schwenk [00:16:00]:
Yeah. So first it was branded content with some of the boot camps and id say hey listen im going to do some educational content on something in cybersecurity and I would reach out to them and say heres what it looks like. I could plug your boot camp. Heard you guys are good based on multiple people and they'll give you whatever a couple hundred bucks. So now you're getting paid per post to have their link on there. And the way to do it ideally doesn't always work like this, but you get a brand deal up front. They'll say here's a couple hundred bucks or I've gotten up to like 2500 for one post. So brand new upfront but then your affiliate deal out back.

Chris Schwenk [00:16:52]:
So you're getting paid on both sides and then you're, and listen, you're not going to retire on that type of money but slowly adds up and start with affiliate deals. Start, get as many of those as you can. And especially for like someone like you where it's like once I found you, I went back to your catalog, started watching episodes, and that's what's going to happen with people once they find you. They're going to go back so randomly this morning I knew I was going to talk about this stuff and I woke up this morning and someone bought a course, this tech sales course for this woman that I hadnt really had deal with that I havent even really promoted. It was just in my links that just happened this morning. And those affiliate deals add up as you grow your platform. The affiliated cash starts first. Okay, $100, $200 here youre like, yeah, big deal.

Chris Schwenk [00:17:47]:
You know, one placement is 2030k, but slowly that's adding up and adding up and then monthly you're making okay persons 1000 a month, that is 5000. So it kind of works exponentially. Obviously it's very different than our core business where you get paid. If someone gets hired, this is like you'd get paid just to do something. So, you know, it's nice to have both.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:14]:
Well, and one, it sounds like it also gives you a nice foundation because recruiting sometimes has a little bit of a roller coaster to it. Two, just the way that I've seen with the quality of your videos and stuff and content is it also seems like you know your shit, which probably helps with your clients too.

Chris Schwenk [00:18:37]:
Yeah, yeah. Well, you come up as an industry leader and an expert too. If it looks clean and you're saying, you know, hopefully you don't. I mean, some people like to just say controversial stuff just to kind of if it'll go more viral. But ideally you're saying things that the clients agree with and they're like, yeah, good point. That was good to get that type of stuff out there. I've always thought that. So, yeah, it's that added benefit.

Chris Schwenk [00:19:00]:
So it's like pretty much, yeah, you become an industry leader, get your name out there. Now if you can get a brand deal up front to produce some content or sponsor your podcast, which now I'm doing, and then the affiliate deals out back and those, again, those just, those just out there forever.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:19]:
And so I want to go into what you're doing with some of the content, like editing and stuff in a bit. But I want to talk about this. Building a podcast now because you decided to go build an industry focused podcast that I love telling people about. First of all, talk about the podcast and then talk about what you're doing with it.

Chris Schwenk [00:19:39]:
Yeah. So my mentor in this space is Thyrus over at Tech is the new black. She's got one of the biggest tech platforms, really in the world. She's maybe top five. And so I did his course, and I know him from Don Miami, so I knew the type of money she was making, which is in the seven figures on just a podcast, which he's now built a massive community on. He's hosting events. Another thing you could do. And so I said, okay, now that I kind of have the playbook of how to monetize it, I have the added benefit as a recruiter of, I can do client outreach.

Chris Schwenk [00:20:17]:
And that's become my client outreach machine. Now, like, I don't say, hey, do you have any open jobs I can fill? I say, I go to companies I'm targeting now, and I say, hey, I want to have you as a guest.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:30]:
And they say yes so much more often, don't they?

Chris Schwenk [00:20:33]:
Yeah, it's nice to have. It's kind of like when, you know, you're trying to get a business from a client versus you have an open job for hiring manager. Have a two different conversation. This is like, obviously more on the friendlier conversation.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:48]:
So, Andy, you do a really good job, like asking questions, interacting with the guests. Like, highly recommend for people to check out the tech Jobber podcast. I'll have it in the show notes, so you could definitely check it out. But once you. And for the listeners that are even thinking about starting an industry focused podcast, how do you turn that initial, like, I want you to be a guest, but I also want you to be a client into interview, into a podcast product, and into a new client.

Chris Schwenk [00:21:17]:
Yeah, that's, that's kind of the Dan. Right. But you know what? You interview someone for an hour, you now have that connection. So they're going to go to HR and say, hey, can you help this guy out? So that's what I found. And with the help of, because I'm paying for a studio time, I'm paying videographer, I'm paying for editors. So it's like, basically I'm using that payment that the brand deals, the affiliate deals to kind of pay for all the back office stuff. And then once you get a couple clients, boom. Now you're, now your profitability on the podcast is through the roof.

Chris Schwenk [00:21:55]:
So that's the long term play. But then you could do a lot of stuff with it. You could, you know, you could go to roadshow, you know, like events. Like, I go to tech events and just say, like, hey, we'll set up the podcast, interview some people, you know, just get some content for them and just kind of monetize that space, you can start a community. There's just so many, like, podcast is the greatest platform for monetization that we have right now. And people are just like, well, whatever. I'm not going to be Joe Rogan. Am I going to be money listener? You don't need that.

Chris Schwenk [00:22:26]:
I mean, you could make money off a niche audience that's people right now.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:30]:
And I mean, that's one of the biggest reasons why, I mean, I think you did such a good job, like breaking down some of the things that you could do with it way better than I, I've been able to communicate. So thank you for that. But you don't need these massive download numbers. Guess what? You need the relationship that you just built, right?

Chris Schwenk [00:22:46]:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you don't. I mean, I think companies are sponsoring niche audiences because, yeah, some girl on Instagram would have however many million followers. But like, how many people are going to check out Senspark, which I saw your episode with, with the woman that owns that. Like, she's not going to get them. Check out sense spark. You will. Right? So, so they're like, okay, yeah, he's not as big as her, but he's, he's an expert and so you can kind of leverage that to get paid.

Chris Schwenk [00:23:18]:
And what I would do, obviously, start with, if anyone is looking to kind of do an industry focused podcast, start with every product you actually use and just say like, hey, I'd love to have you as a partner. You know, brand partner. Start with that, obviously. And then if they say no, so can I be an affiliate and then at least yourself, you know, gaining some money from them. And, you know, I utilize Vas to, I'll have them, you know, let's say go to every tech podcast, view sponsors them, pull the contact info for the affiliate person, and then let's just blast through email on that. So, so I'm constantly doing that. Okay. Yeah, so that, that's another tip as well.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:05]:
Okay. So definitely when it comes to everything, like when it comes to getting branded deals, like, for people listening, they shouldn't be waiting for the brands to come to them. They should be going actively to the brands.

Chris Schwenk [00:24:17]:
Yeah, yeah. And as you're. Yeah, go to them, but as you're building, they'll come to you. I had some cybersecurity company saw one of my cyber videos blow up and they just gave me a couple grand to pitch their service and I was like, all right, let's check it out. Like, it looks pretty good. Okay, so sure, why not?

Benjamin Mena [00:24:38]:
And so, okay, so I want to go into like the editing stuff, like your, the quality of your stuff is good. I feel like the quality of my stuff is not as good. Looking at starting to increase the quality of your stuff. Like what kind of products and tools and what do you recommend for the different price points of people trying to do?

Chris Schwenk [00:24:56]:
Yeah, I mean, I would once again go to offshore. Now there are services. I use one video AI video with a y AI. And so that'll take a podcast like this and just AI will just pull all the clips, pull 30 clips. But I also have, my videographer has a team in the Philippines that just, you know, that's all they do is just do their crazy edits. So I like to have both. But if you're talking about something people care about, you don't always need the edits. You know, it's like some of my best clips have had no fancy edits, the thing people cared about and shared, so.

Chris Schwenk [00:25:38]:
And we're kind of moving towards, I think we're moving toward like, when I started doing it, it was all the facing the camera. Like, here are three things. And then people kind of moved to the reaction videos. So I started doing that and they kind of ran out of things. Good things to react to. And then came the podcast basically. So I think that type of content is doing better. Something like this where me and you were talking about a point.

Chris Schwenk [00:26:04]:
Good point. Boom. That's people want to see now and.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:09]:
So use video AI. I love opus pro.

Chris Schwenk [00:26:12]:
Yeah, it's another one.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:13]:
I mean, there's actually plenty of those tools out there and I've even seen for those that are on a budget, I've seen a few of these tools on Appsumo. They might not be like the perfect tool, but it's a good start.

Chris Schwenk [00:26:23]:
Yeah, I mean, that's perfect. Like, you know, especially if you're an appearance, you're appearing on someone's podcast, pull the, you know, they might not pull the clip that you liked and it's an easy way just to get all the good clips for yourself.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:35]:
Oh, yeah. And yeah, reiterating that point, like, you can literally like hold a YouTube video, drop it into one of those programs that you were a guest on for an industry focused podcast, and it produces clips for you. I love that you've done a lot of like in person stuff. Like you have a full studio that you go to. Were those FX 30 cameras or fs? FX three cameras. It's a super nice place.

Chris Schwenk [00:26:59]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:00]:
That you go to. And for somebody that's looking at just getting started with this idea. Is it okay to do this via video? Kind of like what we're doing?

Chris Schwenk [00:27:10]:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, you could have the cleanest studio, and me and you over. Over Zoom could make a great point. And people just shit. Like, there's. There's some. I don't want to say. There's no rhyme or reason, because the quality of the content of the clip, really, I just.

Chris Schwenk [00:27:29]:
I like the studio. And for me, it was easier to get people in Miami to just go to a studio because in this town, everyone wants their clips. So everyone, like, how do you get, like, how'd you get guessed before you even started? I was like, they said yes instantly. Because everyone wants to get clips of themselves right now. So it was pretty easy. And then you add in the studio aspect of like, okay, these will look good. Great. All right, I'm in.

Chris Schwenk [00:27:56]:
But no, listen, if you're in a city that doesn't have, you know, a great studio or you don't have that option. Yeah. I mean, you can still get great guests over Zoom. I mean, I've been amazed, you know, kind of looking at. I looked at some small podcasts, and I was amazed at their size of guests. Like, they have, like, no subscribers, and they were still able to get great guests because the guests want clips for the listeners.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:22]:
You can give them clips on the back end. One of the little things that most people don't know about this podcast is when the podcast does actually go live, I actually give the guests full on access to the videos. Like, riverside typically does a good job. So Mike AI focused videos, full frame video, like a side by side. And actually, I cut it where they. One of the videos, I give the guesses. I'm not even there. I am, like, gone.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:45]:
So that way, if there's anything. And make it easier for any video clips that they want to do, I'm trying to make it as easy as possible for them. So that's something that you could do for your guests also. So love that you're talking about clips.

Chris Schwenk [00:28:56]:
Yeah, yeah. And the nice thing is now, not only do you get great clips for yourself, your podcast that you can monetize, but you also, with the collaboration, you've now kind of grabbed their audience as well. So. So that's even added benefit.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:13]:
Well, before we jump over to something else, is there anything else that you want to share about content creation?

Chris Schwenk [00:29:18]:
Yeah, it's the great unknown. It's not. You don't know. You don't know how it's going to go. I had no idea. I didn't get no brand deals. I feel like I didn't know any of that. I was just hoping to get some clients, and there's been some new clients that saw me doing stuff.

Chris Schwenk [00:29:32]:
And again, just people I. People just remembered me from years ago that I hadn't talked to in years, and I kind of got some clients that way. So, yeah, just. Just get it out there and make it whatever is comfortable for you. Some people just, you know, it's still content. It's not video content, but it's still content. They, you know, they write long kind of essays on. On LinkedIn and they do.

Chris Schwenk [00:29:56]:
Well, people share it, people interact with it. So whatever you're comfortable with, try it, and you never know what's going to happen.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:03]:
That's awesome. The key is really just getting yourself out there and being different.

Chris Schwenk [00:30:07]:
Yeah. Yeah. Especially. I mean, it's a crowded space we're in. It's simple.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:12]:
The weird thing is, it's a crowded space, but it's such a small minority of us that are actually pushing stuff out there. Like, it feels like everybody is. But at the end of the day, I think there's something like 26,000 recruiters and the DC metro.

Chris Schwenk [00:30:26]:
Wow.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:27]:
And might be 1% of those are kicking stuff out.

Chris Schwenk [00:30:32]:
Yeah, even that sounds high, right? Yeah, that probably sounds even hard. Yeah, I mean, I think. And, I mean, you probably worked with guys in the past where it's like, you have to get easy wins. And that's why I post all my open jobs on LinkedIn. It's not like I get tons of candidates for each one. But you get a couple wins a year, and then you add that over a couple of years and you're like, okay, now we're into, like, multiple six figures just from just putting out the bad signal. So. So.

Chris Schwenk [00:31:06]:
And, like, I think it's. It's kind of like there's people that have been in this business for many years, and just no one. No one sees them as a vehicle for getting them a job. And so every time a new job comes out, they have to start from square one because they haven't developed that warm network.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:27]:
Well, that's awesome. So, before we jump over to the quick fire questions, I know we've covered so many different things, like the potential of a seven figure mistake, pushing out some content, starting a podcast, actually figuring out how to monetize the podcast. I took some notes. Is there anything else that you want to share with on that. On that stuff?

Chris Schwenk [00:31:49]:
No, I mean. I mean, I love your podcast, and yeah, I mean, I think. I mean, I think it's great. Like, you're going more of the way of developing a community of recruiters. And I think that is. I think that's a great. I didn't see it. Like, I knew the tech stuff could track, and I didn't see the potential in a recruiter podcast.

Chris Schwenk [00:32:13]:
But I see what you're doing, and I'm like, okay, all right. Yeah, you got it.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:17]:
And here's a factor that I want to just jump in before the quick fry questions. Like, actually creating content is kind of fun. I feel like that's a fun part of the industry that we're missing out. So go have some fun with us, please.

Chris Schwenk [00:32:30]:
That's up. Yeah. Yeah, why not?

Benjamin Mena [00:32:33]:
So, the quick fire questions, and they do not need to be quick answers. Okay, sure. So if a recruiter is just getting started off in this space, like the recruiting role in 2024, what advice would you give to them to be successful?

Chris Schwenk [00:32:45]:
Okay. Yeah. So I thought about this one for a while, but, yeah, I would get started. Yeah. I mean, again, I love posting the open jobs and. Because, again, no one knows you right now, so you have to show people you are someone that could get them a new job. You have to tell people that, and you have to keep telling them that till they know who you are. So I would start with that.

Chris Schwenk [00:33:11]:
I would say, you know, you're gonna. You're gonna get kicked in the, you know, where's. In this business, you know, and, like, this game will. This game will humble you because you'll have a couple. You'll rip off a couple good months, and you'll think you're a bad man or bad woman, and something will happen. And, uh. So, and you listen, you could tell people this all you want, and, you know, it's still gonna. It's.

Chris Schwenk [00:33:43]:
You're still gonna feel it. Like, this game will humble you at times, and. But then again, if you're putting in the work, when you've been humbled for a while, there's just a breakthrough. New client. Hey, we need ten, whatever. Like, can you help us? Yes, but just constantly be putting in the work. Absolutely.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:02]:
And same question for. But for people that have been around the block 1020, maybe even 30 years, what advice would you give to them?

Chris Schwenk [00:34:10]:
Yeah. So, for me, never stop learning the game, because honestly, I was late to the game on automation, AI. I've got into that stuff the last year. But guys that ran to this four years ago, before people knew that the outreach was AI. Like, now everyone just assumes it. Even if you're actually, like, personalizing it, people assume it's a. I. We saw a sense spark.

Chris Schwenk [00:34:33]:
Now, people were using AI for videos. You have to really, like, personalize your videos. Like, you went to college here. Now you know this person. But people that were ahead of the game there, they had such an advantage over us. And I was late to that because wasn't being a student of the game. So be a student of the game, you. And that's honestly, that's where your podcast comes in, to be honest.

Chris Schwenk [00:34:53]:
Like, I'm not just blunt bloke. Like, I'm actually, I actually enjoy the episodes because every episode I pick up something, might be just one thing, maybe a few things from your guests, but I'm like, wow, I didn't know that. You know, I didn't know sense Spark existed. You know, like, just little stuff like that. And staying on top of that stuff is big because again, during COVID when I had 100 roles a month, I wasn't learning. I wasn't. I was focused on that. But then it was like, then when that dried up, I was like, all right, let me.

Chris Schwenk [00:35:30]:
Okay, the old ways are not working. I'm sending LinkedIn messages, or five years ago, I'm getting responses. Oh, this is great. Email stopped working as well. It's like, up right now.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:43]:
What is your favorite rec tech tool or what is your current tech stack?

Chris Schwenk [00:35:48]:
It's pretty basic. It's instantly I'll send, I had a service set up 50 cold inboxes. So I'm just, I'm just blasting like a machine gun every day and setting up campaigns, and it doesn't work that well. You know, I mean, maybe I'm not doing it as well as I should, but if everyone's doing instantly and blasting out cold emails, then none of us, you know, now you're just, now you're just back to even doing that. So, yeah, I do instantly, I do buzz AI slash connected slash funnel flow, whatever they're calling themselves now. That, for me, I love that because to just automate the rent, income connections, even if you don't have anything, you know, a certain type of job is coming in a certain area or nationwide, and just every day you're sending out 40 connections in that space. And now you, like, now your network, by the end of the month, got an extra thousand connections out and a lot of those accept. And like, now you have a great network in a month automating that, especially to the connection requests through.

Chris Schwenk [00:37:00]:
Some people use dripify some people, you know, I mean, I like the guys over at Buzz AI, but you have to be automating LinkedIn. I mean, pick one of them and go all in on for sure. They're not that expensive either. So. Yeah, so I do that, and then I'm trying to think what else? Yeah, sales nav. I do LinkedIn recruiter. You blast some stuff out there. You know, I blast emails on that for open jobs.

Chris Schwenk [00:37:26]:
Looked into other stuff. I've looked into a tool called talent. I've no relationships. I haven't even signed up for it, so. But I've looked into that where it kind of alerts you of executive moves. So it'll say, like, so and so just hired a new CTO. And then, like, the idea is you reach out and just say, like, hey, you looking to build a team? Like, I know you just got hired. Congrats.

Chris Schwenk [00:37:49]:
That's what I'm looking at. But I haven't signed up for them yet, so.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:52]:
Okay. Has there been a book that's had a huge impact on your own personal career?

Chris Schwenk [00:37:57]:
I wouldn't say four, because everyone gives kind of their same ones more of a couple quotes. And, like, the whole idea of the podcast for outreach was a Gary v. Quote where he. You know. Cause Gary v. Just tells you to do stuff constantly. Some of it is good, some of it, you know, I mean, obviously he's very successful, but he was also, like, first. He was, like, the first guy, you know, he was very smart at that.

Chris Schwenk [00:38:25]:
But. So he said, just do a podcast. If you're saying, like, well, what if no one listens? Like, but just use it to get client. And I was like, well, that's really smart, actually. And I was just like, well, why would they be on if no one listened? Like, if they just want to hear themselves talk. Okay, yeah, that all checks out. So that was smart. And then, I mean, love him.

Chris Schwenk [00:38:45]:
Re ate him. It was like, late 2022 before he got arrested. I remember I heard this random Andrew Tate comment where he just said, like, and this is one of the things that finally got me over the hub to do content. He was just like, in 2023, people are going to buy from somebodies. And I was like, so he's like, just get your content out there. And I was like, yeah, okay. That's, you know, love and hate. And I was like, that's pretty smart.

Chris Schwenk [00:39:11]:
So that was probably the final push to kind of get me to do it. So those two quotes are definitely instead of a book, I would say those have been impactful. And then I'd say the third one, it's another lover. Hate. Like, I hate that people that, you know, like even, like, I don't really like, but that quotes are really smart. But I remember saying there's a bit of a stretch, but like Iraq war, Donald Rumsfeld, there are known, known unknowns, unknown known and unknown unknowns. Like, that's content. Okay? You don't like, you get into it.

Chris Schwenk [00:39:52]:
You don't know. And so that's another, like, I hate that I have to reference him. I always remember that quote, and it is kind of true.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:00]:
So, Roswell, I think that's one of the reasons why I got pushed into Govcon Chavex.

Chris Schwenk [00:40:07]:
For all you neocons out there, one.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:10]:
Of my friends was actually a, like, high up in a government organization and debriefed him on a constant basis.

Chris Schwenk [00:40:19]:
Really must have been interesting.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:22]:
There was never a dull moment in Govcon, of course. Well, let me just, getting back to the more serious side of the house, what do you think? You've really hit it out of the park multiple times. You were a top biller at the open systems before you decided to make the jump. You had a great conversation with the executives there, and that wouldn't have happened if you weren't a high performing individual. And now you're just probably one of the best content people when it comes to actually creating content in our space. Why are you, like, what's keeping you? Like, what's helping keep you successful? Like, why, why are you seeing this success?

Chris Schwenk [00:41:01]:
Yeah, I think honestly, when it comes to the recruiting industry, if you just put in effort, you're ahead of 80% of the people. I mean, you know, like, you were at a, you were at an agency before? I was at, you know, I was the agency. People just come in and just literally don't work. Like, they don't even try. And literally, by putting in an effort, you're going to be in the top 80% or top 20%. Excuse me? Just by putting in an effort, you put in a good effort, you're in the top 10%, and then if you have any skills, you're going to be in the top 5%. And just so, yeah, I mean, the disappointment, like, you have to realize it's like, we're not playing basketball, we're not shooting 50% here, unless you're doing lab retained search. Obviously those go up.

Chris Schwenk [00:41:52]:
Obviously those are tougher to get. So in some ways, you're also shooting a low percentage to get that type of work. But, yeah, I mean, this is baseball, 300 is like, oh, my God, 30% of jobs. You're in the major league, right? So it's more like maybe even football, where you score on 10% of the drives for the continuing sports analogy. So you have to be able to take that disappointment because we're dealing with people and. Yeah, I know. I mean, you've, you've had the situation where it's a short thing until it's not. Right.

Chris Schwenk [00:42:31]:
I mean, we're not, we're not selling pencils here where if the pencil writes, okay, job done, it's people. It's unpredictable. Someone's mother gets sick before the interview. Some, you know, the car breaks that just. I mean, anything can happen. So you have to take that disappointment and. And just roll it.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:50]:
And, Chris, this is actually one of my favorite questions. You've launched your own firm. You're content creating. You've gone through a ton of up and downs throughout your career. Anybody that's been recruiting as long as you have has kept on going. If you get a chance to sit with yourself, have a cup of coffee, a beer, or whatever, your first month into your recruiting career, what would you tell yourself?

Chris Schwenk [00:43:12]:
Yeah, it would just be to speed up the process. It's really. Yeah, I mean, had I done more work earlier, you know, the sooner I got more emails, more calls, more meetings. Yeah, I'd be much further ahead. So, yeah, just. It's just so hard in the beginning because no one wants to meet with you. No one. I mean, it's just rough.

Chris Schwenk [00:43:35]:
You're getting hung up on, but you just have to push through that. And the sooner you do, the sooner you have breakthroughs. And, you know, the wins feel really good because they're hard, and especially in that beginning state. So, yeah, what I would tell myself, yeah, keep going, move faster, do more. Like, that's the game, right?

Benjamin Mena [00:43:55]:
So that's been a constant advice from, like, top billers across the board. Like always, you. You got x, y, z amount at 5%.

Chris Schwenk [00:44:04]:
Yeah. And one other thing I would say is, especially for the people early on, what I found is a lot of people think they're working hard and they're just stressed. Like, they're two different things. Like, some people, it's like, I'm working so hard. Like, you're not really working that hard. You're just really stressed. So you have to be able to differentiate those two things, because when you actually are working really hard, you're not really. You're just onto the next one, you know? So learn the distinction between those two things, for sure.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:36]:
Where did you learn that distinction at? Or how did you learn that distinction?

Chris Schwenk [00:44:39]:
Just, just monitoring coworkers back when I was in the agency life where people would just be really stressed and they would just say, I know, I'm working so hard. I'm just like, well, what did you do this week? Well, only this and this. But it didn't go my way. I'm like, yeah, you need to triple that. I assume it's all going down. Always any irons in the fire, assume they're going to crash and burn. And what would you do then? That's kind of the best way to go about it because a lot of times it does. Oh, man, I got some second interviews.

Chris Schwenk [00:45:13]:
I got some finals. I go, oh, this one, I'm going to show that sometimes it all crashes and burns, so kind of operate with that sense of urgency.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:22]:
And I love that you said that. Just because it's something that I've dealt with in my career, it's a combination of getting stressed, but also realizing that I was thinking about the work and not doing the work. And then I go back and track what I did and I'm like, well, shit, I didn't do anything, but I've been stressing myself thinking about all the work that I've done.

Chris Schwenk [00:45:44]:
Yeah, yeah. And nowadays you got to do your video messages, right? Because again, everyone's automating the LinkedIn and email. So it's like, how many videos? Like, how many videos did I get out today as far as individual video outreach to clients? And I should probably mention loom as part of my tech stack as well, obviously, which I, you know, anyone that's watching this, I hope you're doing looms. I would think so. But if you're not, obviously you're going to have to do that to compete people now. So just. Just to stay even. Yeah, you have to do the video messages for sure.

Chris Schwenk [00:46:18]:
And the follow ups as well. Like, so that's kind of my days are from not like, setting up interviews or submitting candidates. It's either following up to the previous video messages so they know it's not just a link, that they shouldn't be clicking or creating the new ones and setting the new ones, and then the multiple follow ups where people are watching the videos and saying like, oh, yeah, okay, I'll talk.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:46]:
Perfect. Well, Chris, this has been awesome for everybody that's listening that would love to follow you. How do they do that?

Chris Schwenk [00:46:51]:
Okay, so again, with the content, I just blast everything across all social media so you can find me on my main page on Instagram, Chris underscore dellustaffing, Christopher Schwank on LinkedIn and then YouTube techjobberpod, is where we're doing the podcast. You can kind of see what I'm doing and kind of take the elements that work for you, kind of give you the playbook on. On how to make money on it. I feel like a lot of people. A lot of people give up on the podcast because early on, no one's listening, and you're not making any money. And, you know, if your only thing is getting clients, if you're not getting clients, too, then it's like, I just give up. It sucks. So, you know, kind of make your own playbook.

Chris Schwenk [00:47:36]:
Make that into your own, but follow this playbook, because at least you're making some money as you go and at least paying for itself, and you just keep going, and then you see where it takes you. That's awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:47:46]:
Well, Chris, man, I just want to say thank you. I've. Like I said, I've been following you. I found you on LinkedIn, following for a while. Like, I. You're one of the best when it comes to creating content. And it's not just the content that's just, like, plays well with the algorithm. It's not just like, you're not throwing memes out there and stuff.

Benjamin Mena [00:48:05]:
You're actually creating yourself as an authority in the space, but doing a great job doing it. And I love that it's been impacting your business. And I'm so grateful that you showed the listeners how to get started, but also make money along the way.

Chris Schwenk [00:48:20]:
Yeah, I mean, turn it into its own business, and then if you're getting paid to get your name out there, then it's like. Then it's great. So awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:48:29]:
Well, for the listeners, guys, this is another way to crush it this year. I cannot wait for you to win, so keep it up, guys. Talk to you later.

Chris Schwenk [00:48:36]:
That's. Guys. Thanks, Ben. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast with Benjamin Mena. If you enjoyed, hit subscribe and leave a rating.