Marketing Secrets for Recruiters with Danielle Byfuglien

Danielle Byfuglien [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Elite Recruiter podcast with your host, Benjamin Menna, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:19]:
I am so excited about this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast. The reason why I'm excited is because many of us just fall into recruiting. Like, this isn't like a career that many of us got out of college. It's like, I want to become a recruiter. No, we landed in this wonderful world of misfits. But here's the cool thing is you can still be in the recruiting world, but there's so many other hats and so many other careers within the recruiting space that you could take. And my guess, Danielle Buffin is here to talk about her journey, her story. We're also going to talk about relationship marketing.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:49]:
We're going to talk about digital marketing. But I'm just so excited because every now and then I get somebody that reaches out to me that, Derek, I'm tired of recruiting, but I love the industry. What else can I do? And that is exactly why Danielle is here to talk and share. So, Daniel, welcome to the podcast.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:01:04]:
Thank you so much for having me. And way to nail it on my last name. I'm so proud of you. Yes. And your introduction. Like, I think my head got bigger and bigger where I'm like, keep going, keep going. But that's exactly. You've provided such a great space for people that love staffing and love recruiting and love talking about it to be like, Benjamin, I have stuff to talk about.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:01:25]:
Let me on your show.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:28]:
I really just, with this podcast, it's kind of like what I needed at that three month mark when they almost let me go, the information that I need the people to reach out to, the people to look up to. So. But excited to have you on. And real quick, before we dive into your story, tell us a little bit about what you're doing now.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:01:45]:
What am I doing now? Oh, my gosh. Let me set up for this one. So I work for clear edge. And clear Edge is the premier marketing service for the staffing industry. We have three different divisions. We do marketing, we do leadership development, and we also have a recruiting for marketing division. So, I mean, I look at all three of those and it's basically like I landed with a company that speaks my love language. We talk about marketing for staffing.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:02:12]:
We talk about building people up, like looking at where they are today and where they want to be tomorrow or helping them network within the staffing industry. And then if we're working with a staffing company and they're like, we really love your marketing services, but we want to take it in house, we will then step back and help them find the right fit for their company. We will literally recruit for them. So it's literally all the hats at the same time. And I get to go, and I get to cold call all day long. And so everybody that I used to work with, I used to host go to market Monday, and where I'd be talking to salespeople about, like, it's easy to connect with people. It's easy to cold call. I will just tell you all right now.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:02:53]:
I was so full of it, and I'm so sorry. It is. It is fun work. It is challenging work, but it is absolutely never easy because, I mean, you're literally put on the spot of, why does this person want to talk to you? But, yeah, that is where I am today. Basically a vendor to the staffing world. Like, I get to literally just go through and just call all my friends all day. If you see a 218 number coming through and you're like, who is this? Answer the phone. It's me.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:23]:
That's epic. So this kind of, like, is a perfect walk into. How'd you end up in recruiting?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:03:28]:
How did I end up in recruiting? You know what? And every time I tell this story, I'm like, ah, this needs to be like a better elevator pitch. But truly, at the end of the day, I dropped out of nursing school. Yeah, went back to school because I was running. I was actually running a rehabilitation service center before that. Like, your physical therapy, your occupational therapy, speech therapy, all of that. I was the person that kept the day rolling and went back to nursing school and quickly learned that I was president of the LPN club. So I know I've always been a people connector, but when it comes to helping somebody, I truly want to help you, but if there's an emergency, I need an adult, and I am not the one that's going to jump in and, like, stop any wounds or anything like that. I'm like, oh, let's go figure this out for you.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:04:16]:
So, anyways, I saw a position open, and it was running a simulation center, which is where you're performing duties very similar to those that you perform on the plant floor. It's all in light industrial, in the greatest power sports company in the world. Won't name names. You can guess it. Go on my LinkedIn and find it. So I went in there. I kind of didn't take it serious? To be honest, I just looked at it as a stepping stone into my next career move. I started on a Monday, and by that Friday, I mean it was.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:04:44]:
I was so, like, this is who I meant to be. Like, now that I understand what recruiters do connect people, and it's not just filling an order. It's not just placing somebody in a role. It's literally changing lives. It's giving people vacations. It's helping them buy their homes. And once you get them in a role, not just to leave them there as a recruiter. I mean, if.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:05:05]:
If you knew me, you knew me for life and these people are still connected to me, where I put you in a role. And then I would always check back because I always, you know, like, I would look at your background and say, hey, this person. Yep. They can. They can do the clutching, they can do the arms. They can do whatever they were supposed to be doing on the line. But do you know that they also have a project management background? Like, let's get them into planning. Let's get them into something else.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:05:31]:
Or if they don't have a background like that, once they know that product so well, where else can you place them? And truly with staffing professionals, whether it is on the marketing side or on the recruiting side, you become. I mean, if you're really good at this, you become the business partner that your clients need, where they will rely on you for business decisions. To say, you brought these people in, you know them the best. Where do you think they should go next? Or if this isn't working out, what are steps that we can take to get them placed in another position that will work out even better for them?

Benjamin Mena [00:06:03]:
You literally in one week, you fell in love with recruiting.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:06:07]:
Obsessed with it. I'm still obsessed with it to this day. I know I'm in sales and I know I'm in marketing, but at the heart of it, at the end of the day, if you are in the recruiting space and if you even become the CEO of your company, ultimately, we are all recruiters at the end. We're all here to talk people in to what we need them to do and where we think that they should land. But absolutely, it took me one week and I was. I mean, I drank the Kool Aid. I was like, I was in it to win it. And I mean, still to this day, like, running a desk and talking people into, hey, I think this, like, skill based marketing to say, Benjamin, I think that you're really good at your podcast.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:06:43]:
You know that there's an open position with this radio show. You should probably go and talk to them. You know what I mean? Like doing those kind of connections and it's asking those questions and getting to know them. And I mean, that all goes back to, again, relationship marketing. And that's truly how I got into marketing is the way that I positioned myself as a recruiter. I had no idea for those six years, everything I was doing was marketing.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:08]:
And we're going to go into like, relationship marketing, we're going to go into digital marketing, all that stuff. But like, during that time that you were recruiter, your six years, like working the desk, you know, smiling, dialing, all that fun stuff, did you start wanting to do something different?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:07:21]:
You know what? I used to think that there was something wrong with me. I was like, why am I always looking for next? Like, why am I never just okay with, I know how to do my job and I know how to do it well. I know what my niche is. You know, they say your riches are in the niches and, you know, like, just focus on this and keep building this. But I was always reaching for next. What's next, what's new, what's trending? I was going Facebook live before anybody was. And still to this day, I can be in the grocery store and if I have my phone out, people are like, are you live? And I'm like, no, I'm literally looking at a recipe. Like, I'm not always live.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:07:58]:
I mean, I kind of am when it's big events. But anyways, with that, I was always searching for that next and that new and started networking around my company as well. And then that's when I actually fell into a book club and which opened the door to even more because I'm in the most northern part of Minnesota, so I literally live where there are no people. But getting back to, like when you.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:21]:
Were stop, sub stop. Okay. Like, we'll go back to that in a second. Like, okay. Your career changed because of a book club?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:08:28]:
Yes, absolutely. Networking inside my company. My boss said she was too busy to be on the book club for 21 irrefutable laws of leadership. And I was like, please let me join. Please let me join. And she was like, we don't have time to be doing this. And I was like, I will make time because I just, I needed to know more people in my company. Am I allowed to name drop? Can I say where I was?

Benjamin Mena [00:08:50]:
Okay, if you were to.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:08:52]:
Okay. I was working for employee Bridge and they used to have a really great book club where they literally combined all of us around the country from different branches. And every week we would meet, and you had your chapter that you were in charge of, and you talked to other branch managers, other area vice presidents. I mean, like, it was a whole cohort of different people in the organization, and it could be anybody that had just started to, somebody that has been with the company for 20 years. And as you can imagine, Benjamin, I have a really hard time staying quiet.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:25]:
Really.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:09:26]:
Surprise. And from there, it was starting that conversation. And week after week, it would be like I was the only one talking or getting the conversation going or calling out and saying, oh, Benjamin, didn't you have chapter seven? Like, that's next week. Are you excited to do it? Do you want to talk through it or anything? And it opened the door from there where the next book club. When that came around, I was asked to be a facilitator on it because I had that ability to get people talking.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:54]:
And then how did that turn into, like, you going into marketing, like, you know, kind of doubting where you want to go? Were you getting tired of running the desk? Were you?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:10:02]:
Yeah. Well, in where I was, I thought that that's as high as I could go. I thought, like, I'm, you know, I'm in northern Minnesota. All of our branches are all around the country. I can't do anything else. And they actually came to me, and they were like, how do you feel about being a remote recruiter? And I was like, whoa, I can't go remote. Like, I thrive off of people. Like, that sounds like the worst idea ever invented, to go remote.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:10:26]:
Like, absolutely not. And my fiance and I had had the conversation, and he gave me the best life advice. He said, like, looking at the two of, like, staying in the role that I was in and I was crushing it or taking this chance and opening up a door that I was afraid of. And he said, which one are you afraid of? And I said, afraid of the unknown. Afraid of this remote recruiting. I didn't even, like, know what that was at the time or, like, what it could do. And he said, I think you should try it. And I'm like, I think you're insane.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:10:56]:
Slept on it and woke up and said, I think I should try it. Went into remote recruiting. And I mean, from northern Minnesota, I was doing everything online already. I mean, like, how the world works now is how I was working six years ago. Like, I mean, five years ago, not a mathlete, nobody called me on these time frames, but it was pre pandemic where, I mean, that's what I tell people. Like, I was working from home before it was cool, and I was doing everything. I was doing the onlines. I was, you know, reaching out and making those connections.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:11:27]:
I was doing the relationship marketing before I even knew that that was even a thing that got me into remote recruiting where I was recruiting around, like I said, the tip that goes into Canada, that's me. When I say I'm in the most northern part, like, I'm where there are no people. So I've got a lot of time to Internet. I was recruiting around Dallas, around Atlanta, around Chicago, a lot around Chicago. And so it's even funnier because, like, I still remain those connections. Like, I mean, I still have really great virtual friends that I never actually knew that got the attention of learning, experience, design, where they were like, hey, you're really good at, like, talking to people and communicating, and you've got these really big ideas that kind of nobody else is really putting into place yet. Like, everybody is still just following their templates and following, this is our guideline. I was like the rogue recruiter that went well.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:12:17]:
Nobody's really watching me, so I'm just gonna do what I want. But yet I was doing everything online, so truly everybody was watching. And then that got the attention from the marketing department, and I'm gonna call her out. Melissa Phillips, she's with BGSF now. She's their chief digital officer. She's amazing. She had went over to Adeco and started tapping me on the shoulder, saying, you need to come to marketing. And I was like, ew, I don't even know what marketing does.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:12:39]:
Like, I'm a recruiter. Like, this is who I am in my soul. I'm going to be an executive recruiter. I'm going to be CEO one day. Like, I've got goals. I don't want to go into marketing. And I was like, I don't even know what marketing does. And I mean, like, for six months, we would literally jump on a call almost monthly or she'd send me a message.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:12:54]:
And now looking back, I'm like, oh, I totally get, like, the move she was doing. You know what I mean? Like, she is a salesperson at the end of the day, too, where she was just nurturing that relationship. And I learned so much from her of what marketing is, what marketing does, and truly, like, that relationship marketing, that influencer marketing. You know, in the eighties and nineties, they'd say, ABC always be closing, but today it's ABC always be connecting. You know, I mean, we are inundated with so much information that, I mean, we truly have to always be creating content and always staying top of mind. So, I mean, like, if you look at my LinkedIn and I've had that, I've had people in my inbox, like, what exactly do you do? Because, like, I come off very much as a recruiter, but that's because, like, I think at the end of the day, everybody in staffing, whether you're in marketing, whether you're in sales, you are a recruiter. At the end of the day, you.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:43]:
You mentioned something like, about always being connecting.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:13:47]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:47]:
So you see like these, like, you know, these LinkedIn influencers or recruiting influencers or the people that feels like they've been doing this forever. But what if you're a recruiter working at a staffing agency and you're seeing this stuff, like, why should I always be connecting?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:14:01]:
Because we are so inundated with information all the time that, I mean, if you're not making those connections and sharing relevant information, sharing the valuetainment, you know, as the key phrase is, that might be a trending word right now. And if it's not, let's totally make it trending. But the value attainment is always be connecting because people, I'm just going to be really blatant with it. People might forget who you are. So, I mean, you literally have to keep your name relevant. You have to let them know how you are going to help them. You have to keep the lights on, basically, even if you don't have an open role, even if you aren't seeking them out to place them in a role, to keep that connection. And those are the kind of connections, I mean, I don't mean go fill up their inbox every chance you get.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:14:44]:
Don't spam them with emails. But the ABC, they'll always be connecting as a recruiter. Is the liking their content, the commenting on their content. I mean, Benjamin, you and I had that whole conversation over AI versus machine learning, right? You had a great call out. And I think that's what, like, had first bonded us where I was like, aren't we already in the AI world? Like, what recruiter isn't using it? I think your message was like, where's this magic AI that everybody's talking about? Like, am I mistaken? Do you remember that?

Benjamin Mena [00:15:15]:
Yeah, it was a Matt, you always see like, these articles about this ATS, magical AI.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:15:20]:
And I'm like, yes, that's what it was.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:22]:
I'm like, I haven't seen it yet. Like where's this AI selecting these people?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:15:26]:
Yes, exactly. Anyways, getting back to your, I'm going to get way off topic, but getting back to your why recruiters should ABC always be connecting? Because they need to keep themselves relevant. Because job seekers this day and age, I mean, like it's shifted now, but I mean, when we had so many job openings, people weren't searching for jobs. They are today. Like the recruiter has a full plate right now of people saying, find me a job, find me a job or help me skill based, market myself out. And we need more recruiters that are doing that, that are literally taking the time to meet with people to understand where they want to go next and how to get them there. And with staffing companies, you can have all of your marketing in place so that they know your name before they're calling you. So you can warm that lead up.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:16:11]:
So when I'm calling the elite Recruiter podcast, I know exactly who I'm calling and I know that they can help me find my next job. I don't know if that's truly what you do, but I know you're going to know somebody that knows somebody. And that's where the ABC for recruiters or for salespeople comes in, is keeping the lights on and keeping yourself relevant and keeping yourself out in the open so they know that they can contact you.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:34]:
Well, let me ask you a question, one more step on this before we jump over to something else. Like if you're working at a staffing company, is it the staffing company's job to do this, or is it you as the recruiter whose job to be doing this?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:16:45]:
I think it goes two ways. I, of course, am always going to push brand marketing for the company, getting the brand out there for the company so people know that Clear Edge is a marketing company. For example, Clear Edge is also a leadership development company. Clear Edge is also a recruiting for marketers company. But having that name out there and knowing that they are connector, that they understand that. But when it comes to personal branding, I think it is absolutely the recruiter's responsibility to get themselves out there and differentiate themselves. Nobody wants to be working with just a cookie cutter robot. And that's where I was going to say, like, I'm going to end up veering off and telling you, like, not AI all the time.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:17:24]:
Like, robots are not coming to steal our jobs. AI is coming to help us do it better, do it faster, meet with people that we need to, but really helping us have that time to meet with people where they are to get to know their stories, to know them as people. I mean, if you're sitting in a branch and you have people coming in, one of my biggest pet peeves when I would be out remote recruiting is when you get recruiters that were like, nope, you brought your kid in with you. You have to reschedule. Where I'm like, and you're only doing just a face to face interview. Like, we're a staffing agency. Don't make them reschedule. Like, make it work.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:17:59]:
Like, and then they can figure it out as we go. I'm not saying we're, like, suddenly a daycare provider or anything like that. And I mean, for executive recruiters, it's probably a different space, but I mean, if you're getting somebody in that needs a job and you have those jobs open. When I was working where I was, they were like, oh, I don't have a babysitter right now, today to do that interview. And I'm like, no problem, bring them in. They can hang out in the office with us. I mean, your competitor is not your competitor. Your competitor is time in the staffing world.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:18:30]:
Like, I know you're worried about, you know, what is the pay rate over here? What is so and so doing over here? But time is your biggest competitor at the moment.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:39]:
Does relationship marketing and digital marketing look different for staffing versus contingency versus executive search?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:18:47]:
Yeah. Oh, I don't think so at all. That is a really good question, though. And now after we get off this call, I'm totally going to look that up. But off the top of my head, I want to say no. Because if you're an executive recruiter, if you are a gig worker recruiter, if you are, attempt to hire a recruiter, like that kind of relationship marketing. Like, I just want to know what's in it for me. I just want to know if you're, if I'm your target audience.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:19:12]:
The relationship marketing that I want to build is how are you going to, how are you going to get me money? How are you going to make my life different? Like, at the end of the day, like, how are you going to pay for my kids snowmobile racing because of this amazing job you've just offered me?

Benjamin Mena [00:19:26]:
Snowmobile racing? What's that?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:19:28]:
I do it on water and on snow. That's another subject.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:33]:
Well, okay, so let me ask you a question. This, like, you, we see there's so many people talking about marketing right now.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:19:38]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:38]:
So many people talking about, like, content and this and that. There's stuff that looks cool. Yeah, sounds cool, but has zero return. I'll show you a few likes. What is actually working versus what just looks cool?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:19:54]:
Yes. So that is a great question. Like, you might have a really awesome brand, but if you're not going anywhere with it, if you're not doing anything with it, if you've got this beautiful blog that solves all world problems and it literally just sits on your outdated website, that is where you're literally shooting yourself in the foot. It might look cool, but it's not going anywhere. You have to have an updated website and you need to have video content. That is what the algorithm lives and breathes right now. And having an updated website means that it's Ada compliant, that it's on the right PHP. And I'm going to totally go off the rails and say the wrong thing here because I am not the website expert, but we definitely have one.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:20:37]:
I'll connect you with a website expert. If you're looking at your website and you're going, my website isn't converting, your website is literally your 24/7 employee. They are doing the work for you. If your website is up to date.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:51]:
And wait, so people can get leads from their website?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:20:54]:
Yes. Oh wait, say that again. Say it louder for the bankroll. So, like, do people actually lead generation from your website? Yes.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:03]:
How?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:21:04]:
Well, you have to have the right marketing. We have to have a strategy. What is your end goal? So everything we do at clear edge, and actually I'm gonna quote my favorite quote from the 21 year feudable laws of leadership that actually, like, when I was looking at your questions for this podcast and I was thinking through like, what's the story I want to tell? I had this aha moment where I was like, this book is literally what landed me in this podcast was, and I've got it written down here, anyone can steer the ship, but it takes the right leader to steer at the course or to plan out the course. You need a strategy first. You can't just say, I want a new website without a strategy. Do you have blogs already written? Do you have thought leadership in place? Do you want to explore the influencer marketing and the relationship marketing? What are you actually doing to push out your content? Are you going to do just paid ads? There are so many people right now that think that marketing is putting up a pretty social media graphic and just thinking that, boom, everybody's gonna apply now. Everybody's gonna wanna work with you. Doesn't work like that.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:22:11]:
You have to have your bite size, learning your small video pieces and getting them back to your website and the website easy to read, where they know exactly where to click. Am I a job seeker or am I a client? Like, am I looking for help placing people in these roles, or am I looking for a job? And they have to know right away. And that's where. I mean, like, I love chatbots for that reason, you know, coming up, like, hi, welcome to clear edge. How can we help you? We don't have a chatbot because we're still people people, even though, you know, I mean, we push all of this, but we're still people people. But with a chatbot that can just quickly answer your questions. But a lot of the times, what I like is if you're shopping for something, I mean, we're such an on demand generation that if you're shopping for something, if you're even looking for a new job and you have that question answered for you immediately, because we are all, we are now transforming from iPad kids to iPad adults, and we are all guilty of, like, the screen is in front of my face. It's mobile.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:23:08]:
It's right here, right now. I want this when I want to listen to your podcast, when I want to find something, I don't want to have to go dig for it if you give me more than two clicks out. So if you're thinking about your own website and you're like, gosh, we haven't updated it in ten years, but it's fine. It's not fine. It could literally be generating leads for you with the right strategy. But we have to know what your end goal is anytime. I mean, just like you hosting this podcast, you're doing a beautiful job of just letting me rant and rave and talk about all the things, which, I mean, absolutely, if you're with the right marketing agency, that's what they're going to do. They want to solve your problems.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:23:42]:
We want to hear what's going on in your world and how we can help you. And if we can help you, let's figure out another way.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:49]:
So you also mentioned a few times this thing called influencer marketing. What is influencer marketing in recruiting, and how does it actually translate to placements?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:23:57]:
I mean, let's bring up the Kardashians. They could literally be like, hey, you should probably go to clear edge. And suddenly everybody would be like, I'd like to go to Clearedge. That's influencer marketing. What you do, Benjamin Mena, you, Joel. LAUGHTER RichaRd Rosner, you guys are all influencer marketers without even recognizing that you are, you're showing up in a space, you're giving us information that we need. Plus, you're adding entertainment. Those are influencer marketing.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:28]:
How do you do that within a niche that you're in? So it's turning into clients.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:24:33]:
I'll take my own, for example. I used to do talent Tuesday. I would literally go live on Facebook every Tuesday, and I had group started. I was in all the sell and swaps in our current area. I mean, again, this was six years ago, but it's still to this day. So your selling swaps are like your new Craigslist. And for anybody that's from me and we're from the nineties, like, that used to be a thing, but that's, like, where people are going to just waste time. So as an influencer marketer, that is how I went to find either more candidates or even to get more clients to sign up with us was talent Tuesday.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:25:11]:
I would talk about for the candidate search. If I'm a recruiter, I do talent Tuesday. I had a whole thing. We had promotional Monday, talent Tuesday, education Wednesdays thrive with me Thursday and fun at work Friday. For talent Tuesday, I would go on camera and I would show them where they're going to park, to walk in to apply for the job, or I would go live and literally show them on my computer. Here's how you apply for this job. Or I would just quickly do a tutorial on how to do that. But really it's just showing up on camera, showing that I'm a real person.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:25:43]:
So when you walk in and apply, you're going to see me. And I would get that all the time where they'd be like, whoa, you really wear this lipstick, like, in real life? Yeah. It's not just for the show, but.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:56]:
Okay, so you win.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:25:57]:
You win it actually, like, showing, like, what people wear to work, like, what to expect on your first day. And that is really trending right now. So if you have staffing companies that are logging in and listening to this podcast, that is huge of what to expect in the day of a life of an assembly operator, what to expect in the day of if you work in finance, what to expect in a day of, you know, being in sales and marketing. Like, I start my day literally looking at everything, all of the things.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:25]:
So you were at your desk, you're recruiting desk, you're looking at ways to get more clients, ways to get more candidates. And you started talent Tuesday where you just went live almost like a pre podcast.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:26:37]:
Yes. And people thought it was crazy.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:40]:
I'm sure your coworkers probably thought you were crazy, but it turned into business.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:26:43]:
Oh, I still have really great videos where they'd be like, she's on again. Like, covering their face and like, are you live? But that's exactly it. And you know what, Benjamin? You're gonna laugh, though. I started to get this because one of my biggest pet peeves is my inbox was constantly filled on Facebook with mlms trying to get me to sell their makeup, trying to get me to sell whatever. Shakes are really popular right now. But I started to watch the really good ones, and I was like, hold on. We can do the exact same thing with recruiting. Like, they are essentially recruiters at the end of the day, like, what they're doing and which is, I think, is absolutely brilliant right now, because now all those mlms that were crushing it before, now they're all rebranding themselves as digital marketers.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:27]:
I've seen that. That's a whole other story.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:27:29]:
I can't get enough of it where I'm like, oh, okay, well, you were just selling me health shakes last week, but all right, you're a digital marketer. But they truly are. And they're doing a great job of what relationship marketing is not, is adding people on your Facebook's, on your instagrams, and making these weird conversations with them, hey, how is it going? How is your fourth when you don't already have that connection? Because they. Everybody's already onto your game. That was like the old way of trying to do it. That is not what's working today. But when you start interacting and enjoying their content and actually start building a relationship, way different.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:05]:
Like, how do you do that on LinkedIn? Like, we make the connection, connection requests, we start doing some content, and then, you know, I mean, there's so many other recruiters hitting these same people up. How do you, like, get that approach to be different? Rather than the, hey, it's the 4 July, how are you? And they're like, who are you?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:28:21]:
But, oh, Benjamin, I tell you what, as a true marketer, to my soul, I'm constantly a b testing where I don't have the right answer for you because us as a society, we are so inundated, like I said in the beginning with information and with people trying to connect with us online, that I think that is one of, like, the trickiest questions to answer because same thing with you, when I came into your inbox, I was like, oh, he's probably going to think that I am just way out of line or because, I mean, like, after listening to your podcast, after seeing you on different stages and settings, I was like, I was kind of fangirling out and I probably even wrote that in my message. Like, I really want to meet you, but, like, I don't want to come off, like, weird because I want you to know, like, I'm one of you. Like, I'm normal. But as a recruiter, like, how do you do that? And really, it is. It is knowing your roles and what your jobs have to offer the best. I mean, truly the product, the people, the process, knowing your product the best can help you improvise later and literally start those conversations to say, hey, I don't know if this applies to you, but I have this role open that I think you might be great for. And, I mean, you can literally just start it off soft like that. You don't have to full out come and say, these are the benefits because I've tried it every which way because I have been that person and honestly going and making a video of talking about them.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:29:44]:
I mean, TikTok has a beautiful option of having the actual job behind you and you can talk all about it to say, hey, you know, I've got an engineering civil engineer role open. This is what we're looking for.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:56]:
What if you don't feel comfortable in camera and you don't feel like cutting a video? There's some other things that you want to do. And it's kind of funny saying this for the listeners. Like, there are times where I try cutting a video and I'm on like, try number 17, and I just say, screw it. What other ways can we. Like, if you don't want to be.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:30:12]:
On camera, you want to keep your information short and sweet. This is where I'm going to tell you to use your chat GPT, take your job, throw it into chat GPT and tell them, act as a recruiter. Rewrite this in 90 words or less with bullets of literally what the job entails. Copy and paste that, throw that right into a LinkedIn message and do the 2010 five model. I'm going to call out Hacksaw Academy. They taught me this probably four years ago. 2010 five, you're going to connect with 20 people a day. You're going to like, and you're going to comment on ten different posts.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:30:46]:
You're going to like them, you're going to comment on them. You're not going to say commenting for better reach. I get that. I understand that. When it comes to open for work, I really appreciate that. But when it comes to somebody like you asking a really relevant question of where are these magical ATS systems and their AI, I'm not just going to go in there and say, commenting for my network like that is just, I mean, that's just waving and saying, you know, waving as you're driving by, not stopping in and having a conversation. And so literally ten times, this is every single day for only 15 minutes, you're going to schedule that on your calendar. 20 different connections of people that you want to connect with.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:31:26]:
That doesn't mean send them a message right away. Just send them a blank connect, no messages. The ten likes and comments go through. Read. Read what your audience is saying. If you already built that connection and, you know, you really want to get Benjamin on your team, go back and look at his content and start commenting on it. It doesn't have to be every day because it will come off creepy. So make sure that you're like, you know, floating around and make sure that you're not commenting on everybody.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:31:50]:
And then your five DM's, those are where you've taken your 90 words or less DM and thrown it into their LinkedIn. Or also send them just a 90 word email. And I'm going to call out Keith Wayman, too, because I love to just name drop people that I love in the industry. So Keith Wayman, he does with bullhorn, he does a beautiful whiteboarding. And his strategy right now is just to do one word emails, like, only put what the email is about. Pipeline, for example. Everybody's talking about pipeline because everybody wants a bigger pipeline. Pipeline means all of the people that are coming in for clients interested in you, candidates applying with you, but really keeping it at 90 words, because as I said before, we've got one thumb width to get somebody's attention, and they're out.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:32:35]:
And people don't read this day and age. I'm sorry, but they don't. If you have huge paragraphs, if you have too many words, you're gonna give that person anxiety and they're gonna go on.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:45]:
All right, so just for this, was it the 1020 whatever it was 2010? 520. Ten five. You're not connecting with other recruiters. You're connecting with people in your space, right?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:32:55]:
Yes. Yep. And if recruiters are who I'm after, that's who I'm going to connect with. Yep. And right now, I mean, to be open and honest, I'm after your CROs, I'm after your salespeople, I'm after your marketing people, because those are the people that I want to connect with, that I want to say, let's talk about marketing. Let's talk about how we can fill your pipeline even faster. Let's talk about your website converting. Let's talk about lead generation.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:19]:
I got one last question before we jump over to the quickfire questions. And I know we talked about mlms and digital marketing. I feel like that's completely separate digital marketing, you know, buying a course or whatever. But when it comes to digital marketing, is it different for a staffing company, different for a contingency recruiting firm, and also different for an executive search firm?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:33:37]:
And I'm going to answer you with it all depends on what their goal is. We at clear edge would never be cookie cutter. I couldn't say, this is what we've done for every single contingent. This is what we've done for every single attempt. This is what we've done for every single gig. It would all depend on what their end goal was. And essentially, at the end of the day, I'm going to say no. I'm going to say it's not going to be completely different.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:33:59]:
Like, marketing is still building your brand, knowing what is before you have to call and sell yourself what is like.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:08]:
We'Ve talked about like influencer marketing, relationship marketing. Is there any other types of, like, digital marketing that's just absolutely crushing it right now?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:34:16]:
Video, user generated content. So if, let's say, if you keep talking to the same candidates that are saying no because of XYZ, turn that into a blog post. Turn that into how you're solving for them. Use your case studies. And again, if you can do a video or even if you can do the podcast where, I mean, you've nailed it, where you've got like the audio in the letters right in front of you. So when I'm just quick scrolling, it's randomly catching my attention. That is what's really crushing it right now.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:46]:
Awesome. Awesome. Before we jump over to the quick fire questions, is there anything else that you want to share about, like your story making the career change but still staying in the staffing and the recruiting world or anything that we've covered?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:34:56]:
No, I think you've covered it all, but I'm just really excited that you have this space that you are being consistent and showing up and giving people new stories of ways that they can grow and ways that they can grow their own careers.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:09]:
Thank you. I think it's also part of pure craziness sometimes.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:35:13]:
That's the magic we all, if you love the staffing industry, there is that boldness, that innovation, that need to just like, what else is out there?

Benjamin Mena [00:35:24]:
So quick, fair questions. And this is going to like kind of the you've done coaching recruiters, you've been a recruiter yourself, you're on the marketing side of recruiting. So it'd be interesting to really hear your answers on this. But if there's a recruiter that's just getting started out, they're brand new to this industry this year, in 2024, what advice would you give them to win?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:35:44]:
What advice as a recruiter? Brand new? I would say be bold, don't be afraid. Everybody moves at the speed of light. So really, like if, let's say you put out a post and you're like having anxiety over what it says or how it's written or anything like that, don't get so inundated with your thoughts. And if you are not using LinkedIn, get on there. Use LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook. Use all the social media platforms as a recruiter. But LinkedIn for sure is going to be your honey pot. My best advice, honestly, and this is how I learn, is I like to imitate before I innovate.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:36:24]:
So start networking and start searching for recruiters that you really enjoy and start listening to the podcast, like the elite Recruiter podcast, because you will get more knowledge nuggets than you even knew that you needed. And I mean, like, I had started it where I was listening to Gary Vee and Simon Sinek and Barry Waymiller. Those are the podcasts that I had first started with when I was traveling all around doing recruiting. And still to this day, I will put on Gary Vee when I need a pump up moment, when I need my ego just to be exploding before a call. And don't get so caught up in your own thoughts. And just again, your biggest competition is time. As a recruiter, it is time. Everybody is looking for that job.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:37:05]:
Everybody wants that connection, and you've got to be connecting with them and follow up. If they applied with you last year and they didn't take that job, follow up with them, see where they're at, see if they're happy in their current role or if you can help them find their next role.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:18]:
Absolutely awesome. Same question, though. But for people that have been around the block 510, 25 years, what would you say to them?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:37:25]:
Share your knowledge. They are a wealth of knowledge from the way that they did it old school when they started off at as 400 and had to print out timesheets to, you know, like everything on file to today. They have got to share their knowledge because recruiting and staffing is cyclical. And what we're going through right now isn't anything different than recruiters went through in 2008. Things that recruiters went through in 2002. I mean, like, we have seen this time and time again, and it will come back around. If you're feeling like, oh, staffing is so, like, it's so hard right now, or nobody's buying, or, you know, like, my job is getting harder and harder, it will come back around. So just keep educating yourself.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:38:06]:
And if you have been in the industry for 510, 20 years, share your knowledge. Network yourself out. Get on podcasts. We need your knowledge.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:16]:
You've actually probably mentioned this a few times about a book that's had a huge impact on your career. Recap it. But has there been any other ones that have also played a huge part?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:38:24]:
I'll always call out 21 year refutable laws of leadership, and I would be a complete miss if I didn't call out. Together, we rise. With the lady leaders, you've got Leslie Vickery, Joyce Russell, Joni Bailey. I mean, just Kelly Boykin, Erica Heisen, Ursula Williamson. I mean, you've just got the best names in the industry. Wrote a book. They literally gave us a playbook on how to make magic, how to change your career. And for anybody listening, if they don't already have it, there it is right there.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:38:55]:
Bam. Together we were at. It's great insight into the industry and especially nothing against the men. But, I mean, you know, 2024 is kind of year of the woman. So, I mean, it's all about rising up each other and how do we get to that next level? How do we get more women in the C suite? How do we. And it's not, I mean, it's not only about women. It's about leadership, empowerment, and getting out of your own thoughts and knowing, like, your story or where you came from is not where you stay.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:27]:
I love that you said that 2024 is the year of the woman. We have the recruiting growth summit later on this year up in September, and a bunch of female leaders are talking. But I just had two interviews with two guests that just absolutely crushed it at the very beginning of their recruiting business and bringing them on as, like, panels. So it's just two amazing female CEO's in the recruiting space to do a panel. Like, hey, how you get started right in the game. So.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:39:53]:
And that's what we need. You just had Andrea on your show not too long ago, and, like, when she talks about that she's like, I got fired, and then I went and started my own. I think it was her who said that. But, I mean, like, when you hear those stories of. Of people saying, like, I can do this. And another thing to call out, too, with. I mean, regardless of gender, there are. I'm one of them that I don't have anybody in my family.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:40:17]:
I'm a first generation corporate America person, but, you know, so I don't have that person to say. If you're in a board meeting, like, what do you say? Or if you're meeting with this kind of executive, like, how do you present yourself and the lady leaders book club? Together we rise. Or clear edge rising. We have that opportunity for you to sit in those spaces, to get that kind of coaching, to ask those questions that you're afraid to ask. And you don't have somebody in your family that you can ask those questions to.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:49]:
Awesome.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:40:49]:
Oh, let me call GSA, too. They also have a mentor match program.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:53]:
Oh, awesome. And when it comes to your own personal career, your own story, like, you've kind of had some opportunities that have popped up that you've semi, like, traded for yourself without knowing that you created yourself. But, like, I'm sure you've had plenty of hard days where this is tough. What do you think has been a driver for you on why you have been successful?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:41:14]:
You know what? That is one of the hardest questions I think I've ever been asked. Benjamin, you could have at least queued it up a little bit more. I could start crying right now. On my darkest days, what keeps me going or, like, what has been my biggest motivator is, I mean, all of us in the staffing industry, the ones that love it, the ones that have been in it long, I mean, we're just kind of built, born with that fire, that. What's next? And I just. I don't think that I was. I was made to just play soft or play quiet or, you know, just have one job that I just do repetitively for the rest of my life to say what it is that keeps me going is being a mom. I want to show up and show my kid, like, this is the world, and this is.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:41:58]:
You can make it what you want it to be. Like, it doesn't matter what I think you should do. It doesn't matter what my parents thought I should do. Like, you know, I'm middle child, only girl. I've kind of, you know, I've had the safe space as well. I've had really great leaders. Let me call that out. I've had really great leaders that have given me that platform to safely fail fast and to give me the feedback and to help me get where I need to be.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:42:25]:
It has been not only family encouraging me like, yeah, go do what you do to having amazing leaders at all companies that I've worked for that have literally given me the wings to be like, go. Go see what kind of magic you can make. And that is truly what the heart of staffing is. Who do you want to be and how do you want to help people get there?

Benjamin Mena [00:42:46]:
You went through a massive career change, so you kind of, like, self opened those doors. What advice would you give to somebody that's looking at staying in the recruiting world but maybe wants to make a change into something else but still in the recruiting world?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:43:00]:
Oh, gosh, I absolutely, I hate when people leave the recruiting world. I hate when people leave staffing where I'm like, stay in the industry. If you're a recruiter, you can be an account manager, you can be in sales, you can be in marketing. You can be a project manager. You don't have to just stay there. So start networking within your company and start networking outside of the company. There are so many great people. Like I said, the American Staffing association has the mentor match program where if you are interested in something and you're like, I want to know more about that.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:43:31]:
Go fill out their form and they will connect you with somebody in that space that will help you get there. Ask questions. And, I mean, if you're listening to this podcast right now, I'm going to open up the door and say, benjamin, and I would love to answer your questions. Drop us both a LinkedIn message and ask what the questions are. If I'm a recruiter today and I want to be CEO tomorrow, how do I get there? And I'll call out Janelle Beeler. I, when she was mentoring me at Employbridge, I actually said that to her. I said, will you be my mentor? She was like, sure. And she said, well, what do you want to do with your career? And I'm like, I want to be the CEO.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:44:03]:
And she was like, okay, let's figure out how to get you there. But she didn't put me down. She didn't like, look at me like, why do you want to do that? She was instantly like, perfect. Let's figure out ways to get you there. And those are the best coaches to have and the best mentors. And the staffing industry is all about helping people get to that next level.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:24]:
The ASA thing that you mentioned about, is that open for anybody that's a recruiter or is it only people that own a staffing firm?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:44:32]:
I believe it's open to anybody. We should actually get Diana on here. She'd be a great one to answer those questions for you. But as far as I know, it is, if you are a recruiter, if you work for a staffing agency, if you are in the staffing space, I think you can go and apply for it and they will match you with the right mentor. But I'm not an expert on it, so I can't really give it, like, the real thoughts there.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:55]:
Once again, looking back at your career with everything that you know now, like the lessons you've learned, layoffs, getting new jobs, networking yourself into new opportunities, have you had the chance to sit down with yourself at the very beginning of your recruiting career? What advice would you give yourself?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:45:12]:
Advice I would give to Danielle. Just starting out, I know my whole spiel has been on everybody is helping out, everybody and everybody wants to see you succeed. You have to advocate for yourself first. You have to be the one to say, this is what I want to do. How do I get there? Or if I'm not connecting the dots, how do I get there? It's advocate for yourself. That's what I would tell myself if I was just getting into it. Advocate for yourself. I've been very lucky, I think, in my roles of, and I've been very loud.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:45:44]:
So it's probably like, all right, we'll just let her in because she keeps knocking on the door. So just let her in. But it's advocating for yourself to say, hey, I want to seat at that table. I want to know how to get there. That doesn't mean be pushy and demand. That just means advocate to say, this is what I want to do. How do I get there? And most companies have performance management going on right now, where you're looking at your smart goals, you're looking at what you did last year and what you're going to do next year. It's not about just KPI's and filling orders.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:46:12]:
It is about where you want to grow in your own staffing career. And it's advocating for yourself.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:18]:
You chose advocating for yourself. Was there a time when you didn't and how did that change?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:46:23]:
Yes, that's where I say, like, when I look back at when I was first starting, I thought, like, I had hit the top. Like, I thought that I couldn't go anywhere else because of where I was located. But with, you know, my, I won't call it delusional. I'll call it my very optimistic thinking. I was like, we're all sitting on our phones. We all are on the Internet all the time. Why can't I go bigger and more and keep pushing those boundaries and keep connecting with people way outside of my organization? I mean, like, you know, add Gary Vaynerchuk on LinkedIn to add people that I feel like are out of my space, but at the end of the day, to understand that they're a real person. So to get yourself in that space, but getting back to not advocating for yourself, I very much am like, oh, I don't want to rock the boat either.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:47:15]:
So maybe I just won't say anything where, like, looking back, there were multiple, multiple times where I'm like, I should have. I should have. And I don't want to be the shoulda coulda. I want to be. I did this, and here's what happened. And like I said, I've had great leaders that when I was a little bit too bold, pulled me back and just said, hey, let me give you some feedback on, like, why you don't text somebody like that. Oh, my bad. But very, very kind.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:47:42]:
And those kind of leaders, as a new recruiter, you could, you know, I mean, like, we're so ego driven, too, that I feel like some of us might feel almost like a personal attack, but those leaders that can come in and give you good feedback and literally help your whole career, I mean, like, it can change everything as long as you're willing to listen and they're giving you the right feedback. If we've got leaders right now saying, I've got people on my team that I need to give feedback to, but I don't want to hurt their feelings or I don't know how to say it, call me. Clear edge rising has the workshop you need for feedback. We can help you through this. Look at that. Just got salesy right off the bat.

Benjamin Mena [00:48:19]:
Well, before I let you go, if any of the listeners want to follow you, how do they go about doing that?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:48:25]:
Oh, you can find me on LinkedIn. Actually, all my social medias are completely open to the public, so you can literally go on anything from threads to LinkedIn to Facebook to Instagram, and you're going to find me. Even TikTok Danielle Buffalon is my handle. And it's d a n I e l l e b y f u g l I e n. Bufflin. Just like it spelled, not as in close to it.

Benjamin Mena [00:48:50]:
And before I let you go. Is there anything else you want to share with the listeners?

Danielle Byfuglien [00:48:53]:
I just want everybody to make it a great rest of your 2024. I know it has been a really rough year, and just like I said a few minutes ago, that it is cyclical and it is going to come back around. Once the election season is done, we are going to be just hitting the ground hard and businesses are buying again. So if you need to get your marketing in shape before it's too late, before your competitors are ahead of you, drop me a note. Let's start that conversation.

Benjamin Mena [00:49:21]:
Awesome. Well, I just want to say thank you much for coming on the podcast. Like I said, over the years, I've even thought about what else I can I do outside of, like, sitting in the recruiting chair. I've had people come to me asking the same thing. Like, I love the space, I love the helping people, but I want to do something a little different. I love that you shared that there's options. I love that you shared that there's many. But it's just when you're sitting in that chair, you don't see those.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:49:46]:
No. And honestly, because I was affected by a huge layoff this last year, and I didn't share that at all on the podcast right now, but I was basically like the wolf over Wall street. And I grabbed the mic and I was like, I'm not leaving. Like, I love the staffing space. Whether you are working for a staffing company or for a vendor, there are so many options out there. And if you're listening to this and you're feeling lost in the process, you are just, as Gary Vaynerchuk says, you're just ahead of it. You're not lost in the process, you're just early in the process and it will catch up and everything will make sense eventually. But if you're like, here's my skill set, here's where I want to go.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:50:25]:
Connect with us. We'd love to help you navigate this. And also, I'm going to call out me Derby. They are another great company that helps staffing people navigate their careers. If they have went through a layoff or if they are just not loving their role currently, reach out to me, Derby and Robin and the crew there can help you find your next role.

Benjamin Mena [00:50:45]:
Awesome. So much, man. Like I said, super excited that I had you on sharing things that could be absolutely life changing. But like, like you just said a few seconds ago, we want to see you win. I want 2024 to be your best year yet, so keep crushing it. Guys.

Danielle Byfuglien [00:51:00]:
Absolutely. Thanks, Benjamin. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast with Benjamin Mena. If you enjoyed, hit subscribe and leave a rating.