In this episode of The Elite Recruiter Podcast, host Benjamin Mena welcomes Terry Edwards to discuss innovative strategies for making more placements without relying on traditional cold calling. Terry shares insights from his extensive experience, beginning with his accidental entry into the recruitment industry nearly 30 years ago to building a successful career while bypassing the ubiquitous Rolodex and cold call method. Instead, Terry emphasizes the power of marketing and positioning oneself as an authority through various channels, including direct mail, email, social media, and even running a podcast. He dives into the importance of targeting future hiring managers rather than competing aggressively for present opportunities and underscores how changing your mindset can profoundly impact your success in recruitment. Terry Edwards also talks about leveraging technology, maintaining a growth mindset, and the significance of setting clear goals. Whether you're a seasoned recruiter or new to the industry, this episode offers valuable advice on transforming your approach to client acquisition and thriving in the competitive world of recruitment. Tune in to learn how you can revolutionize your tactics and see tangible results in your recruiting game.
Feeling burned out from endless cold calls that lead nowhere? What if you could secure $600k in business annually without making a single cold call? Tune in to uncover the secrets!
For recruiters, finding leads and getting positions to work on is often the most challenging part of the job. If you’ve been struggling with the traditional method of cold calling and not seeing the desired results, this episode is a must-listen. Terry Edwards joins host Benjamin Mena to reveal innovative and proven strategies that can help you make more placements without the stress of cold calls.
Ready to revolutionize your recruiting game and leave cold calling behind? Listen to this episode now and start implementing strategies that will help you make more placements and change more lives in 2025!
Rock The Year – Recruiter Growth Summit: https://rock-the-year.heysummit.com/
Replays for the BD and Sales Summit: https://bd-sales-recruiter-summit.heysummit.com/
Signup for future emails from The Elite Recruiter Podcast: https://eliterecruiterpodcast.beehiiv.com/subscribe
YouTube: https://youtu.be/1md2LJ2gLzk
Follow Terry Edwards on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/renegaderecruiter/
With your Host Benjamin Mena with Select Source Solutions: http://www.selectsourcesolutions.com/
Benjamin Mena LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjaminmena/
Benjamin Mena Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/benlmena/
Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
Coming up on this episode of the.
Terry Edwards [00:00:02]:
Elite Recruiter Podcast, wherever your hiring managers are hanging out, you should be hanging out as well. So it could be emails, it could be direct mail, sending posts. And again, some recruiter resist that, but nobody sends posts anymore. Think about that for a minute. If nobody's sending posts and you do, you're going to stand out from the crowd. One of our clients, he gets all his business, and this is a solo recruiter. He's doing about 600,000 a year, and he gets it all through his contacts, through podcasts, but he's running a podcast every week. Every week, he's reaching out to people.
Benjamin Mena [00:00:31]:
Welcome to the Elite Recruiter Podcast with your host, Benjamin Mena, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership, and placements. I am so excited about this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast because one reason, one reason, recruiters need positions to recruit on. And one of the biggest struggles when it comes to recruiters, it's typically the sales side. So we're going to talk about how you make more placements, and the secret of that is, well, we'll share the secrets on that in a bit, but here's a factor that we need to talk about. You could do it without making a ton of cold calls. You can set your business up, right? And so I am so excited to have Terry Edwards with us to share how you can make more placements this year. So excited to have you.
Terry Edwards [00:01:22]:
Thank you very much, Ben. Great pleasure to be here. I've listened to so many of your podcasts. You've interviewed some of the greats in the industry, so it's an honor to be here.
Benjamin Mena [00:01:29]:
Well, before we dive in, Terry, can you share a little bit about what you are doing now?
Terry Edwards [00:01:34]:
Yeah. So make more placements. We work with the owners and directors of independently owned recruitment research firms from around the world, and we share with them how to generate more leads, make more placements, earn more money. A few headaches in a nutshell.
Benjamin Mena [00:01:49]:
Pure headaches is always good, right?
Terry Edwards [00:01:51]:
Absolutely. Yeah.
Benjamin Mena [00:01:53]:
Well, okay, so before we start talking about what we're going to focus on today, how did you even end up in this wonderful world of recruiting?
Terry Edwards [00:02:00]:
I wish I could say, and I'm yet to meet to somebody that says, oh, I've always wanted to be a recruiter, because I've never. I've never met anybody that has actually said that, like, virtually everybody I've speeched and I've been in the industry 28 years now, like everybody else I speak to by accident. I used to work for a company that's well known in North America, a company called FedEx. I was sales and training manager for them, based in the uk. Long story short, they then pulled out of the UK operation and I entered the world of recruitment by default. I have a sister who worked for a big search firm called Korn Ferry, who I'm sure you've heard of. And she said, look, with your background in sales and sales training, you'd make a good recruiter. Not quite sure why that is.
Terry Edwards [00:02:38]:
Anyway, so that's how I got into it. But purely by accident, it wasn't a lifetime dream or anything. It was on the advice of my younger sister, who was. Who happened to be operating in that sector.
Benjamin Mena [00:02:48]:
So you were working at FedEx. They pretty much laid you off. You're like, what the hell is recruiting? Let me just dive in right that. How was your first year in this space?
Terry Edwards [00:02:56]:
I'm going to show my age nowadays. When I entered recruitment, many, many Years ago, nearly 30 years ago, I was given a. I was given a roller dex. I was given a phone and I was told, call these people, tell them what you do and see if you can get some business. I didn't know any better, and that's exactly what I did. I'm so my age. As you know, Ben. I work with my son now, Drew, and we're talking about this today.
Terry Edwards [00:03:15]:
We use things like fax machines. And I said to Drew, the day I think about a fax machine, he said, what's a fax machine? And then he explained what it was and he said, why didn't you just use a computer? I said, you're missing the point, stud. We didn't have computers. That's what we did. We got on the phone, we cold called to get business. When you got the business and you interviewed the candidates, you would then fax the CVs or resumes over to the hiring manager. Often the paper would fade, so you also had to post the CVs or resumes over to the hiring manager. So I worked for a company at the time called Computer People, and they had this enormous post room.
Terry Edwards [00:03:47]:
And every day, the end of the day, all the consultants would go down to post out the resumes. And that's what we did. And we did just fine. It sounds unbelievable now, but that's how it was nearly 30 years ago.
Benjamin Mena [00:03:58]:
Well, I feel bad. I feel really bad now because talking about your son not knowing what, what the fax machine was because I I actually had to fax stuff in my first year recruiting.
Terry Edwards [00:04:08]:
So, you know, and I'm like, man.
Benjamin Mena [00:04:11]:
I'm not that old, am I? Crap. Okay, so, so fast forward. Like, you know, you were given the Rolodex, you know, smile and dial, like.
Terry Edwards [00:04:21]:
That's right.
Benjamin Mena [00:04:22]:
I'm guessing like no real training except for just like listen to what Joe Bob does and Jim or Joanne and just kind of copy and figure it out, right?
Terry Edwards [00:04:32]:
Absolutely, absolutely. It's interesting, isn't it? I was given a lot of training on how to recruit and how to find the candidates. Zero training on how to get business, which is interesting. You're right. I just copied what everybody else is doing. There was a guy there called Steve. He was probably about 10, 15 years old, but he knew his way around recruitment. And I literally sat next to him and just listened and copied him until I found my feet.
Terry Edwards [00:04:53]:
I was very lucky and I won't deny it. I won a piece of business that's turned out to be a really big piece of business with a major retailer. And I did look back after that, quite frankly. But that full disclosure, that was luck. I just happened to call at the right time. They said, actually we're looking to build our IT team. Perhaps we can have a conversation. Hell yes.
Terry Edwards [00:05:11]:
And that was it.
Benjamin Mena [00:05:13]:
Okay, so fast forward. You actually had to figure this out. When did you start figuring it out and did you start developing systems for yourself or is it just like pure chaos until you hit a certain point in your career?
Terry Edwards [00:05:27]:
Yeah, again, I wish I could say any different, but it was pure chaos. Long story short, I then I worked in recruitment for a number of years, had my own business. I was in partnership with somebody else. We had a bit of a fallout. We had a shareholders agreement, so she offered to buy me out. But I couldn't go back into recruitment for two years as part of the shareholders agreement. Although she bought me out, I couldn't retire the long way off, you know, So I had so many, but not enough to not work well. I did enjoy the sales and marketing side of recruitment, so I offered to help a lot.
Terry Edwards [00:05:54]:
I've got a lot of friends in recruitment, so I offered to help a few friends and colleagues in recruitment with their sales and marketing. That's the way I found out how to do it because everybody I spoke to had the same problem. Yeah, we're cold calling hiring managers, getting 10 cold calls a day. One hiring manager said to one of my friends, do you realize I get about 300 cold calls a month every month? I am Sick of targeting you guys. And when you hear stories like, it's like, yeah, that, that's probably about right. There must be another way of doing it. So the style side, I was quite comfortable with the marketing. I just went off and studied marketing and looked at what some of the most successful people in the marketing world were doing and then applied it to recruitment.
Terry Edwards [00:06:32]:
So it was by accident. Again, Ben, say hey. It was a eureka moment. It's slowly but sure, you found a way where you could get business without having to cold call. Because fundamentally, there's four main reasons why a client doesn't buy from you. The first one is they don't have a need for what you do. So I know you work with government contracts as an example. So if you were to call me offering your services, there is nothing you could say that persuade me to use your.
Terry Edwards [00:06:55]:
I just don't have a need for what you do. So need is the first one. The second one is no. If the hiring manager doesn't know you, they ain't going to buy from you. So you could be the best recruiter with the best candidates, the lowest fees. For most recruiters, most of the market have never heard of them, so they don't know them. The third one is like, if the hiring managers like you, they're not going to buy from you, but they don't like you because they don't know you. And the fourth one is trust.
Terry Edwards [00:07:17]:
And one of the things that we advocate, and we'll go into more detail, is that recruiters work on a retained or exclusive basis. But hiring manager is not going to do that if they don't trust you. That's one of the reasons why a lot of recruiters are unable to retain business because the hiring managers entrust them. So all your marketing then is aimed at, first of all, finding the hiring managers that have a need. And there's two types of hiring managers. There's what we call the now hiring managers, which the hiring manager is hiring right now. The majority of recruiters see this hiring manager over here is hiring right now. Let me, along with all my competitors, chase this guy, this hiring manager to work on this vacancy.
Terry Edwards [00:07:54]:
And then there's a future hiring manager that's saying, I'm not recruiting right now. So often when you cold call and you speak to a hiring manager, you say, I'm a recruiter, got any vacancies? The hiring manager says, I'm not recruiting right now. Because they're not. They're not recruiting right now. But sure as X rays are going to be recruiting in the future. So your marketing should be aimed at targeting the hiring managers, or what we call the future hiring managers, that they'll be hiring next quarter or the quarter after. Because now you're not chasing the hiring managers recruiting right now along with everybody else. You're getting in there before all your competitors.
Terry Edwards [00:08:28]:
So it's putting together a marketing campaign that identifies the future hiring manager that's going to be hiring next quarter, next month, next week, rather than the hiring manager that's hiring now. Added to which, there are more future hiring managers and what we call now hiring managers, because the majority are not hiring right now. So you've got a much wider market to go for. Does that make sense, babe?
Benjamin Mena [00:08:48]:
I mean, that makes absolute sense because I see it constantly. Rec opens up, there's seven recruiters on it for some reason, like, another one agrees to it. So there's eight recruiters. So, like, everybody's chasing like the same little thing, especially in the contingency side.
Terry Edwards [00:09:00]:
Absolutely, yeah.
Benjamin Mena [00:09:02]:
Let's talk about this. Like, you know, let's take a step back. Like, you're talking about how marketing can really fundamentally change the game. What does that even look like when it comes to us recruiters? Like, how do you, like, structure a marketing campaign that actually works?
Terry Edwards [00:09:15]:
Well, give an example. I was in a place called Cambridge and my son wants an Apple watch. And I went into the Apple store and I said, hey, I'm looking for an Apple watch, blah, blah, blah. And he said, yeah, sure, if you'd like to come over here, had a look at it. Yep, that's fine. I was probably in the store for about 10, 15 minutes having a look at it, making a decision, buying it. And I spent £400. But think about that process.
Terry Edwards [00:09:37]:
Never met the guy before. It wasn't for me. Didn't ask for a discount. Yeah, sure, let's go ahead. And the reason why is because Apple did all the work beforehand in terms of marketing. So if you get your marketing right, you don't have to sell. You get the hiring manager wanted to buy from you more than you want to sell. So going back to Apple, they didn't have to persuade me that it was the best brand.
Terry Edwards [00:09:59]:
It's what my son wanted. There's no questions. Yeah, sure, I'd just go ahead. So for a recruiter, that's exactly what you need to be doing. So if you think about it, most of your hiring managers have never heard of you. So what we say is that, look, you need to get in front of your hiring managers and Position yourself as an authority, et cetera. And here's where the problem comes, because in a lot of recruiters, it's one of the big failings for a majority of recruiters, about 80%, they will say this, yeah, that makes sense, Terry. Then they say this, yeah, but my market's different.
Terry Edwards [00:10:28]:
That will never work in my market. And what the recruiter's doing is they're giving you their personal opinion about what they think works. They never say, I've tried this over a consistent period and it didn't work. They just say, I don't believe that's going to work. Which is fine, by the way, because the recruit that has what we call the growth mindset says, that's interesting. I wasn't aware of that. Let me test it and then have an opinion based on the results of my test, rather than, that's not going to work. So one of the most common ones is we say most of your market are actually on Facebook rather than LinkedIn.
Terry Edwards [00:11:00]:
And you talk to some executive search firms. I said, with Terry, my market's so sophisticated, they're. They're not on Facebook. Well, most of them are. There's more people that use Facebook than use LinkedIn. Well, I'm not going to do this, Terry, because it's not going to work, because why am I? But you don't know. At the very least, test it. A lot of things you can test, very little risk, there's no cost involved.
Terry Edwards [00:11:17]:
You can do some, what we call organic marketing and test it, see for yourself. But the clients that we work with that go, actually, I don't know, Terry, but I'm going to test it, then get some amazing results because I have what we call that growth mindset. Let me just test it and see for myself. Rather than having these limited beliefs about what's going to work in my market.
Benjamin Mena [00:11:34]:
And if you want to go to Darth, I was going to be like, but my market's different.
Terry Edwards [00:11:44]:
What's next?
Benjamin Mena [00:11:45]:
Oh, yeah, I was looking to be a book. My market doesn't like to use social media.
Terry Edwards [00:11:50]:
On average, you got even more. So in North America, you're exposed to about 7,000 ads a day every day. Billboards, TV, Internet everywhere. And in the UK, slightly less. It's about 5,000 ads every single day, whether it's insurance, motor cars, you name it. You know very well these sort of things. Most of those ads you ignore because they're of zero interest to you. But the recruitment business owner said, I can't do that.
Terry Edwards [00:12:15]:
I'm bombarding My hiring manager with my ads or my emails or my posts or whatever. But that's what everyone else is doing. And if you think about it, the, the big corporates like Apple are spending millions a year to do just that. But there's so much you can do as a recruiter to get in front of your decision maker on a regular basis for a fraction of that cost that will get you business.
Benjamin Mena [00:12:38]:
Are you talking like paid ads too?
Terry Edwards [00:12:40]:
You can use paid ads. One of our, what we believe is there's a lot of what we call organic, non paid ads that you can do without going down the road. Paid ads. But the really ambitious, what we call them hungry, especially search for money as they go. No, we're going to do organic. We're going to do paid. Why not? Because, look, what we know is the more you advertise, the more you market, the more business you get. That's, that's a fact.
Benjamin Mena [00:13:00]:
That is so true. Okay, so if a recruiter is sitting there in their chair like, oh crap, you know, I've been sitting there cold calling, I've been emailing, I've been using Clay, I've been using this, you know, video messages. But I need to actually start creating a marketing arm and actually start testing some of this stuff out. What is the first pieces of advice that you like, the first few steps that you think that they should take to start making this machine actually happen. So that way the hiring managers are like, you know what? I know that Ben is the best recruiter. I need to reach out to Ben for my next few hires.
Terry Edwards [00:13:30]:
Yeah. And the first thing I would say, it sounds pessimistic, but it's a fact, is that most of your marketing will be ignored most of the time. That's a fact. And the same with whoever you are when you're. Most of their ads are ignored. But with that in mind, one of the challenges that we then have is that I'm going to do this, Terry. I've got A list of 500 potential hiring managers and I'm going to, I'm going to mark that to them. That's great.
Terry Edwards [00:13:52]:
It's a great way to start. But you would be much better served, you get a much better result if you were to market to a larger list. So sure, you can market to 500, you can mark or you can market to 100. If you market to 100, your response rate, by the way, is going to be 2 or 3%. So if you're marketing to, you know, to 100, you're going to get one or two leads. If you market to 500, you're going to get five times as many as that. But what if you would say, actually I'll make a decision, I'm going to mark it to 2000 because now you're going to get 20 to 30 leads every time you market. In fact, I'm going to market to 10,000 because the bigger your market is, the better response you get.
Terry Edwards [00:14:25]:
Not because you're a better marketeer, but you just increase your odds.
Benjamin Mena [00:14:28]:
That makes sense. But I think that you're also walking into one of the problems that I think a lot of recruiters have is I think a lot of recruiters haven't literally market mapped like a thousand to ten thousand to twenty thousand people within their space.
Terry Edwards [00:14:41]:
That's right. That's absolutely, yeah. One of the questions we ask is, what's your collateral? What size of your list? And oh, we got about a thousand or about two. Very rare. Anything over 2,000? Absolutely. Yeah.
Benjamin Mena [00:14:51]:
Okay. So, you know, first we need to work on expanding the list and then we need to work on marketing that list. I'm guessing you're probably talking about like multi channel marketing. Are you talking about email marketing? Are you talking about like, you know, like what kind of things? Maybe outside of a cold email actually works.
Terry Edwards [00:15:07]:
Yeah. So the best way to answer the question, wherever your hiring managers are hanging out, you should be hanging out as well. So it could be emails, it could be direct mail, sending posts. And again, some recruiter resist that. But nobody sends posts anymore. Think about that for a minute. If nobody's sending posts and you do, you're going to stand out from the crowd. Some of our clients have got their best success by sending things through the post.
Terry Edwards [00:15:29]:
LinkedIn is the most obvious one. Facebook, the groups on LinkedIn, of the groups on Facebook, these are all organic things that you can be doing. Position yourself as an authority. So some of our clients get some amazing success by doing podcasts. Exactly what you're listening to now. But think about it. If you example my background, I worked within retail it. I didn't do it at the time because it was nearly 13 years ago.
Terry Edwards [00:15:52]:
But imagine I then reached out to IT directors. Now rather than saying to them or CTOs and saying, hey, my name's Terry, I'm a great recruiter. You got new vacancies. I've heard that many times. Hey, my name's Terry, I've got this podcast where we're interviewing some of the leading players within the retail sector within it would love to have you on the as a guest on my podcast. So now you have a completely different conversation. You've now got this guest on your podcast. You're then promoting the podcast.
Terry Edwards [00:16:17]:
But you don't talk about recruitment. You talk about the challenges that CTOs, as an example, are having right now. Just by association. You're now an expert in that field because you're interviewing these people. See, most of the hiring managers that you speak to don't want recruitment. What they want is the solution that recruitment provides. So you saying to a hiring manager, I'm a recruiter. Go back to myself, I'm a recruiter.
Terry Edwards [00:16:42]:
I recruit IT professionals. Have you got any vacancies? Most people, no, I haven't. But if I was to ask a hiring manager in my sector, hey, as a cto, what's the number one challenge in your business right now? Well, it's ensuring these projects, these IT projects are delivered on time to budget, which is going to add to the bottom line. Because every hiring manager has problems in one of three areas. It's rather around time, team and money. And your recruitment service should be able to solve those problems around those things. So as an IT recruiter, I say, so if I could introduce you to a senior project manager or project director that can ensure your products are delivered on time and to a budget, I guess you would be open to that, wouldn't you? The response is, hell yeah. If I was to go out to your audience right now and say, hey, if I could introduce you to a consultant that could add 200,000 to your bottom line, I guess you would be interested.
Terry Edwards [00:17:31]:
99% of people, they go, I would be interested. Look at the cost and run the numbers, but certainly would be interested. Nobody's going to say no to that. But note, I'm not talking about, I'm a rect to rec guy that brings in recruiters. I'm Talking about adding 200,000 to your bottom line as a recruitment business owner. So I'm talking about the outcome rather than the process, because the process is pretty much the same. The process is the process. This is what we do.
Terry Edwards [00:17:53]:
And sadly, that's what most recruiters talk about, the process rather than the outcome. Does that make sense?
Benjamin Mena [00:18:00]:
I think that makes perfect sense because I've seen the emails. I feel like it's the same emails that's been around since before I started recruiting almost two decades ago. There's literally just copy and paste it and I put into the same template that everybody sends. But how often do you get something that's just even a freaking Little bit different. Like, hey, this can solve XYZ problem, add more money to your bottom line. And on top of that, I think you hit a great point with podcasting. The secrets about podcasting that I've been telling people, like, go start an industry focused podcast. Don't worry about downloads because a hiring manager will say yes to a podcast interview way before they'll say yes to your 20 emails in your campaign.
Terry Edwards [00:18:34]:
100%. One of my clients, he gets all his business. And this is a solo recruiter doing about 600,000 a year. And he gets it all through his contacts, through podcasts. But he's run a podcast every week. Every week he's reaching out to people. He does group podcasts, but that's his sole method of getting business with founders within fintech. By using just that method alone.
Terry Edwards [00:18:54]:
Absolutely right. Yeah.
Benjamin Mena [00:18:56]:
So is part of it just being different in your marketing?
Terry Edwards [00:19:00]:
Yeah. People often say, I want to be different. And my response to that, do you want to be different or do you want to be successful? Because there's two different things. You could, you could wear a Batman outfit. You're going to be different. I'm not sure if it's going to work. So it's not about to be different. It's about what works.
Terry Edwards [00:19:14]:
So what we encourage you to is do what works, but you don't know what works. What would earn an incentive test and see where you get the best results. If you're sending out a thousand emails every day and you're getting no response, you need to look at that. Something isn't working. It's probably the content of the email because most recruiters will talk about themselves. I'm a recruiter. I've been in business 10 years. This is our mission statement.
Terry Edwards [00:19:37]:
This is a photograph of our office dog. Nobody cares. It's a bit like, you know, if I was to meet up with you eventually, your family over the dinner party and I said, hey, Ben, welcome. Now for the next two hours, I'm going to talk all about me. He'd go, gee, I'm looking forward to this because you wouldn't want to hear all about me. But if we had the conversation, I asked you about your questions and a challenge. Now we're having a proper conversation. So if you're going to communicate to a hiring manager, get your message to resonate with the hiring manager about the problems that hiring managers having right now.
Terry Edwards [00:20:08]:
Example, are you an IT director frustrated because your projects aren't being delivered on time into the budget, added to which you want to build A top class team. But at the moment you can't find that top 1 2% of candidates who could solve a problem for you. Then you've got the problem of it. Recruiters reaching out to you every day and quite frankly most of them kindly miss Val it, never mind help you solve your problem. It doesn't have to be that way. See the difference? That letter, it's about the problem they're having rather than this is me, this is what I do, this is our mission statement, et cetera.
Benjamin Mena [00:20:40]:
You've had a lot of really good points and one of the biggest things that you talked about early on is testing, like testing these ideas and testing these things that like that you're talking about. And you have conversations with your clients. How long should you test before you decide like, hey this works or this doesn't work? Because I know some people will test it for like a week or two and just be like, oh, it didn't work, I'm done. While some people would be like, you know, six months in, like this is what I'm doing, I'm committed to this. Like where do you start seeing like hey, this is a figure out if it works or not for you.
Terry Edwards [00:21:12]:
Yeah, it's a simple one. So examples. Some people say I don't like selling, I don't like marketing. So I'm going to bring in a business development person to do it for me. And when I do that, they're going to get all the appointments for me and I'm going to deliver on those roles and happy days. And then you talk to them, they say it didn't work. I brought somebody in and it just didn't work. Well, maybe didn't work because of the process you're following.
Terry Edwards [00:21:35]:
Because if you're saying to somebody else, I want a cold call all day, that's probably what it is rather than anything else. So it really depends. So one of the things we'd say to people like that, you know, we're happy to work with us. Let's look at the method you're using to get the appointment. It's because if you're cold calling, that's probably not going to work as well as if you were just to call a warm list to call hiring manager that you know are looking to recruit. And at the very least if you call them, you say, hi, this is Terry here for make more placements. The hiring manager goes, I know who you are. See, we have a telesales team and our script is just that.
Terry Edwards [00:22:08]:
Hi, I'm ringing on behalf of Ventmore placements, Terry and Drew's team, you recently. And we refer to what they recently did. You requested something. You attended our webinar. Do you remember? Hey, we never got an appointment. So our setters will book 80% of the people that they speak to to make an appointment. But they never, ever cold call. They will always call somebody that knows who we are.
Terry Edwards [00:22:28]:
And our clients do exactly the same. So for one of our clients calls him and he Sundays, I'm at me co recruitment. And the client says, I've never heard of you. What we'd encourage them to do is say, I do apologize. Let me send you some information. I'll get back to you because you don't want to make that cold call. We joke about this marketing and a bit like datey. You wouldn't go out on your first date, meet somebody and go, you're fantastic.
Terry Edwards [00:22:51]:
Let's get married. Steady on, tiger. At least let's buy me a drink. But first of all, you've got to get to know each other. But recruiters think, oh, no, I just call a complete stranger, tell them how great I am, and they're paying me 10, 15,000 in the retainer. It's not going to happen, is it?
Benjamin Mena [00:23:10]:
And I want to take a few steps back. You mentioned something a few minutes ago about the recruiter that wants to hire a business development person to solve all their BD challenges. I've seen that happen a lot in some, like Facebook groups. And it's one of the things like I feel like a good salesperson can get their own work and probably get their own split deals. But so many recruiters are trying to find this magical silver bullet of a salesperson to solve all their problems when they probably, I hate to say this, if they're the business owner, they need to work on figuring out their systems for selling first.
Terry Edwards [00:23:40]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. It's almost, you know, I say it's naive to think that you can just bring somebody in. They're going to do all the business development and you're going to ride off this and set with all this money in your back pocket. And we have no evidence, by the way of that working. As simple as that. Majority of the cases, it doesn't work unless you've got a process in place. So you've got a script, a specific script that you use for the telesales person, because a marketing campaign.
Terry Edwards [00:24:06]:
So the telesales person or business development is only calling warm leads. And there's sufficient warm leads so you can keep them busy all day. Five Days a week. And then you're tracking everything. How many dials are making, how many people they're speaking to, what percentage those are converting into appointments, what percentage of those appointments convert into deals. When I say a deal where the client pays an invoice, not when you get a job order. The problem with that is the average contingent recruiter will fill between 20 and 40% of the roles that they work on. So the average contingent recruiter most of the time is working and not getting paid and sometimes get confused by that.
Terry Edwards [00:24:43]:
So they say to me, terry, I'm inundated with work. I say, well, I take it you're working continue. Hell yeah. We've got more job orders than we can handle. You need to look at that because you're definitely spending most of your time working on job orders you will never ever fill because you're working on contingency. Half just your competitors are working on the same job order. The recruiter then says, yeah, but if I could bring in more consultants to help me fill these roles, then problem solved, problem solving. But it won't be solved.
Terry Edwards [00:25:07]:
You're just going to increase your cost. You're not filling the roles because you haven't got enough resources. You're not filling the roles because half does. Your competitors also work on those roles as well. And if your competitor's got that job order two or three weeks before you, that's like going into a boxing max with both hands tied behind your back. You've got very little chance of filling it if they've got a two or three week advantage over you.
Benjamin Mena [00:25:27]:
And that's where proper marketing and proper, you know, everything that you're talking about doing is. So that way you can get in front of that person when they actually have that need, not six weeks after the position's been filled. I love the stories where, you know, everybody's worked on it but then you fill it. But yeah, how many of those stories that like recruiters have out there, like, well, I got it too, but then I didn't fill it also.
Terry Edwards [00:25:49]:
Yeah, that's right, that's right. A friend of mine, she's accountant and she shares with her remind me of recruiters. She works with people with drug, with abuse, you know, whether it's drink, drugs, gambling or whatever. And she says, but when you torture them, they paint a different story. So a gambler as example, say most gamblers will say, most of the time I break even because the perception is that's how they feel about it and it helps justify their position and it Might be reclusive because when you say your full rate is only 20 to 40%, a lot of people say no, mine's a lot higher than that. And I said, do you track the numbers? No, but I just know I said, well, it's worth you going away and tracking the numbers. Now they come back and say, well actually it is only 35%. It's the same with the gambler.
Terry Edwards [00:26:30]:
You know, I don't drink that much or I don't gamble that much or I break even. Well, let's look at the numbers. How much did you spend on gambling over the last 12 months and how much have you actually won? Because a gambler with a gambling problem, they don't just break even. There's a reason why places like Vegas are so successful. They're always going to win, not the gambler.
Benjamin Mena [00:26:48]:
So you're saying the recruiter has a sales problem. So okay, so I think one of the biggest things to really just like get on the right track is going to be mindset before you implement all this stuff. And like, you know, tactics, solutions are important, but I think one of the foundation things that people have to work on first is the mindset. Like so like you're now looking at like completely changing the game of what you're doing. But before that, how do you change the mindset into what you need to have to grow in recruiting?
Terry Edwards [00:27:18]:
Yeah, that's a real deep one is. And there isn't one simple thing but you have to acknowledge first of all, you have to acknowledge that. So for anything to change, you have to change. If you want more business, you want more clients, until you change nothing change externally. So here's an example. Some of our clients charge 50% of the salary as their fee and they work on a retained basis. And I swam to those based in America and I said, why 50%? It's unusual number. And he said, because I'm worth it, Terry.
Terry Edwards [00:27:47]:
That's why. Now the only difference there is his mindset, his self worth is by the way, he recruits country managers at, you know, 3, 400,000. The difference I'm going to make to these businesses is enormous. You paying me a fee of 180, 200,000 is the very least because of the difference I'm going to make to your business. And of course you've got to work on a retained basis because that's well I'm worth. And sometimes you see posts on Facebook, LinkedIn or whatever complain about the hiring manager screwing down on fees and won't pay the fees. It's not the hiring manager, it's what you've actually accepted because you can never ask for more than you're worth. If you think that 25% is too much, you've got the damage of discomfort in asking that.
Terry Edwards [00:28:27]:
But that's an internal thing, it's not the reality. And then we could say, yeah, but my clients all buy on price. A percentage of the market will buy on price. It's about 20%. They're price buyers. So if I offer it at 20% and you offer it at 19%, you're going to get the business. But if Fred offers it for 17% they get the business. That 20% price buyers have got no loyalty to anybody.
Terry Edwards [00:28:49]:
It's purely on price. But there's another 60% to what's called relationship buyers. So the relationship of your expertise is more important than the price. And price comes down fourth or fifth. That's 60% of the market. But here's the good news. 20% of the market are premium buyers. They will pay a premium for a premium service, be it recruitment, be it search, be it a car, be it a Where's my.
Terry Edwards [00:29:14]:
On my phone beta, the Apple iPhone is the premium smartphone. Apple have 18% of the market because a percentage of us, myself included, are prepared to pay a premium. In the UK they used to have to get a phone to V7 or something and they said they advertised it as good as an iPhone. It was 107 pounds. But they. Which is about $120. But the advert was it's as good as iPhone. We know that's not true.
Terry Edwards [00:29:41]:
Added to which, if a recruiter really believes that they're clients are buying on price, I always ask this question, your pricing then is it top end, bottom or the middle? Most recruiters say, well we're mid range. Or think about that statement. If you're mid range in your pricing, where's the strategic advantage? Because if recruiter's cheaper than you get in business, as the recruiter is more expensive than you get in business, there's actually no advantage strategically in being mid range. You'd be better off saying, actually I'll go to the top end, I'll start charging 35% like all the top ranging recruiters do. But that again is purely a mindset. Asking for a retainer. Asking is purely a mindset. Marketing, raising your head above the parapet, being concerned that you're going to offend somebody.
Terry Edwards [00:30:27]:
Because by the way, if you start marketing, somebody's going to piss and moan about your ad, about Your email about your posts, you've got to roll with the punches on that one. You can't think I'm going to be all things to all people because you can't be. A percentage will absolutely love you. A percentage will be indifferent to you, but a percentage I'm going to dislike you for whatever reason. Now if you're going to spend time letting that worry you, you're going to have problems. So all that is mindset. That's got nothing to do with your service. It's got a lot to do with how you feel about yourself and your self esteem, your self worth.
Terry Edwards [00:30:58]:
And what we do at the beginning is we work on that. Because once you get that right and you get that confidence, that self worth, you get it really right. You're unstoppable, absolutely unstoppable. If you start to believe, example, there's an abundance of business out there rather than there's a scarcity of business. Because if you have an abundance mindset, you behave differently to if you. While business is tight now always concerns me when recruiters talk about how tight business is. What they're saying is I'm not very good at marketing and having to generate the business I want to generate. There's not a criticism.
Terry Edwards [00:31:27]:
But you're probably better off saying that because then you're saying, I can do something about it. The moment you say it's the economic climate, you're playing the victim, saying, I can't do anything about this. Well, if you don't believe you can do anything about it, you're not going to. So your behavior is completely different to the guy that says, hell no, I need to step up the marketing. I need to demand more and raise my standard with my consultants. I need to raise my own personal standards. That's all.
Benjamin Mena [00:31:49]:
Mindset right there is the secret. So recruiters listening to this, they're hearing you talk about this, Terry. You know, they're talking with their friends, they're talking with other recruiters in the Facebook groups. How do they go about like really shifting their environment? Because a lot of recruiters are by themselves. I'm a true believer in like, you can create a bubble for yourself. And you know, because of this podcast, I have literally created this like bubble of people that are just absolutely crushing it and winning and all this stuff. But you know, it's because I built this podcast. But a lot of people out there, like, you know, what advice would you give to them? Like how do you go find an environment or maybe even a coach that can help you Shift that mindset.
Terry Edwards [00:32:26]:
Yeah, and I agree with you 100%, Ben. Let's go back to. My friend is in, in counseling, and she says very same thing. You know, that if you've got a, a drink problem, a drug problem, but your social life is around people that also have those problems, it's a lot more difficult to kick those habits. I think it was Jim Rohn that says you will earn an average of the five closest people to you. So if you're not happy with the standard that you're operating in right now, let's say in your business, you need to find people who operate at a higher standard and adopt some of their habits and kind of socialize, network with them. So one of the beauties of your podcast, you have high achievers coming on, talking about their success. If you're listening to this right now, they're the guy you want to be talking to and asking them, you see, if one person can do it, there's a very good chance that you can do it.
Terry Edwards [00:33:09]:
If one recruiter, we work with some solo recruiters who would do a million a year every year as solo recruiters, so we know it's possible. If they can do it all over the world, why not you? And the only difference is, is their mindset.
Benjamin Mena [00:33:23]:
If you want a good laugh talking about that, like, okay, you know, I've had a chance to talk to a lot of million dollar billers, you know, a lot of great people. And then I, I think it was like two, three months ago, I was chatting with somebody that did, I think was like 3.2 or 3.5 themselves in one year. I was like, but you could do that. You know, it's just one of those things. I think you just hit the nail on the head, like, you start having these conversations and your world expands 100%.
Terry Edwards [00:33:47]:
Yeah. Because you then go, well, actually, Ben could do it. If Fred can do it, what are they doing? And that guy that you just talked about that did 3 million plus, he or she is doing things differently to most people. That's a fact. And thinks completely different to most people, 100%.
Benjamin Mena [00:34:05]:
And that guy that I was talking about has a great family life, too. Spends lots of time with his family.
Terry Edwards [00:34:09]:
Fantastic. I love hearing that. Love hearing that.
Benjamin Mena [00:34:12]:
Yeah, we covered a bunch. We covered everything from like marketing to sales, and we finish it off with the most important foundation, which is mindset.
Terry Edwards [00:34:19]:
Yeah.
Benjamin Mena [00:34:19]:
Before we jump over to the quick fire questions, is there anything else that you want to talk about or focus on or dig a little deeper on Two things really.
Terry Edwards [00:34:27]:
Sales and marketing is the lifeblood of your business, first and foremost. And I'm sure I said it before, I said again, if you get that right, you'll never have to worry again about money, about paying attachment, if you can. If you can get that right, you have to then acknowledge, I don't know what I don't know. So you don't need what we call the growth mindset. You go, I don't know what I don't know. So, okay, I don't know how to do it. And that's not your fault. Because if you've never been shown how to do it, how on earth are you expected? No, let me seek some advice.
Terry Edwards [00:34:55]:
This isn't about you reaching out to me or to Drew or anything. Get some advice from somewhere and whatever they tell you, test it. So let's say, yeah, we're going to give you 10,000 appointments in the next 10 years or whatever it. Test it. Say, okay, let's do this for a couple of months and see how we get on. And look at the standards around you the same in business, how you do anything is how you do everything. So if your standards within your business, let's say you've got a team and you tolerate low standards, have a look at yourself and go, actually, what does it say about me? Because it's not my team, it's what you tolerate that's creating this. And you know, actually we're going to raise our standards now.
Terry Edwards [00:35:29]:
So you have to get in on time. You have to do this marketing. You have to reach out to these clients and these candidates. There's certain standards that you have to do. We'll raise our standard. And we're operating at our high standards. And if this isn't for you, I respect that. But this is my business, my rules.
Terry Edwards [00:35:44]:
For you to get anything more than you've got right now, you've got to change yourself. If you change the world around you will change, guaranteed. But you can't expect to remain the same but then get different results. Life isn't like that.
Benjamin Mena [00:35:58]:
Fortunately, it's not. Man, talk about a great way to finish off as part of the segment. Well, so jumping into the quick fire questions and they remember, they don't need to be quick answers. So you started recruiting back in the day, the Rolodex. And I think kids nowadays don't know what a Rolodex is. So Gen Z, if you're listening to this, ask ChatGPT to draw one up for you and the fax machine and the fundamentals of recruiting is the same, but technology is different. What advice would you give to a recruiter that's literally, it's 20, 25. They're literally just coming into our industry right now.
Benjamin Mena [00:36:30]:
What advice would you give to them to succeed in our space?
Terry Edwards [00:36:33]:
The biggest thing is knowing exactly what you want. So having a well defined goal about exactly what it is you want to achieve. One of the problems we acknowledge is that you talk to a recruitment and say, what do you want? And they say things like, this is the noob new person and the guy that says, regardless of gender, the guy that says, well, I just want to survive. Guess what? They just survive. But you talk to another guy and they say, Terry, in year one, I want to do 250,000. They're more likely to achieve that because they know exactly where they're going. Because, see, unless you know where you're going, how do you know when you get there? So the first I'm going to say is get crystal clear about what is you want to achieve. Get crystal clear of the market.
Terry Edwards [00:37:11]:
Because all the evidence shows that as a solo recruiter, the narrower your niche, the broader your appeal to have a well defined niche. The question I always ask at this point, which is the niche that's the most prosperous and most buoyant at the right moment? Every niche is competitive, by the way. There isn't such a thing as the best niche. Just find your niche and position yourself as the expert in that niche. Let's say dog groomers. You can now say you're the leading expert within the dog grooming community and because you have a niche, you can communicate directly to that niche. But you can say, if you're an owner or director of a dog groomers and you're having these problems when it comes to building your business, a dog groomer's reading this and going, they're talking to me because I'm a dog groomer and they're the problems that I'm having. So you can make your language specific to that industry and make sure it resonates with that industry, whatever their challenges are.
Terry Edwards [00:38:00]:
So that'll be two main things. Having a well defined goal, having a well defined and, sorry, the third one, and then taking that to get things done. Not the, I'll do that tomorrow, someday I'll just go, hell no. These three things I'm going to get done today, whatever it takes, I'll get done today.
Benjamin Mena [00:38:12]:
And when you're talking about niches, it's something that's funny that I've Discovered and just talking with people because of the podcast. There's a lot of money in unsexy niches.
Terry Edwards [00:38:21]:
I think there's a lot of money in every niche, in my opinion. Yeah, yeah. We pronounce this different because you guys said niche and we say niche. Same thing. It's spelled the same way.
Benjamin Mena [00:38:31]:
Well, I mean, okay, but same question for somebody that's been around the block, you know, maybe five, 20 years. 25 years, and, like, you know, the world's changed. You know, some people have had a rough year, others haven't. What advice would you give to somebody that's been, like, in this game for a while to see success difficult, but.
Terry Edwards [00:38:49]:
They need to look in the mirror and go, I'm not happy the way things are now, and this is what I actually want. It comes back to knowing exactly what you want. Because sometimes people say, I want to be happy. And I go, what does happy mean to you? Well, it's a bit like me coming to your husband and saying, I'm. I'm your taxi driver, your cab driver. And I say to you, where do you want to go? And you say, well, I'm not really sure. I tell you where I don't want to go. It's not going to work.
Terry Edwards [00:39:13]:
You need to say to me, this is where I'm going, Terry, and I've got to get there in 15 minutes because then we can do something. So that individual needs to look in the mirror and say, this is where I am right now. This is where I want to get to, and I'm committed to doing something about it. I'm not going to try and do this. I'm 100% committed to do something about it. And to do it, by the way, will take you outside your comfort zone. To get to. Wherever you want to get to is outside your current comfort zone.
Terry Edwards [00:39:36]:
So you're going to feel uncomfortable. You have to be acknowledged. That's just the way it is. You can't stay within your comfort zone because your current comfort zone has got to where you are now.
Benjamin Mena [00:39:44]:
2025 is going to be the year of getting out of the comfort zone.
Terry Edwards [00:39:47]:
Absolutely.
Benjamin Mena [00:39:48]:
And if you want a good laugh, I had this mental image where you're going completely off subject, when you're talking about the taxi driver and you hop in there, like, where do you want to go? Well, do you know how excited that taxi driver's gonna be? How the bill that they can rack up just driving all over town? But, Lily, it's also the same thing with your life if, like, Somebody else is gonna run through your life and run up your bill.
Terry Edwards [00:40:07]:
Great point, actually. That's a great point. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.
Benjamin Mena [00:40:12]:
Well, anyways, do you have a favorite book that's had a huge impact on your career, your business, your life?
Terry Edwards [00:40:18]:
Two books brings me on what's quite recent. The first one is by Brian Tracy. It's called the Psychology of Achievement by Brian Tracy. It's available paperback for some reason. It takes some while to be delivered by paperback. But you can also get it on audio. We get all our clients to read it or listen to it rather. I'll probably listen to that, no exaggeration, say over 100 times over the last 10 years or so.
Terry Edwards [00:40:39]:
And the second book is called Built to Sell. It's by a guy called John Rillo. I'll happily send him the diesel. I think I've got his name correct there. And he talks about a. He had this design business where he would take on business with anybody. He would always compete on price. It was a small business.
Terry Edwards [00:40:55]:
He would have sleepless nights where he couldn't pay his bills and pay the wages or whatever and he's frustrated. He goes to the bank to get a loan, the bank won't give him a loan and he's really in trouble. And he gets talking to somebody about his business and the person he talks to explains to him the problem with your business is that they're trying to do all things to all people. You've got no process in your business. So because you try to be authentic to all people, your attitude is any business is the right type of business and you would be better off having a well defined niche, having processes in your business. So that way you wouldn't need to recruit. And this, I think it really relates to recruiters. You wouldn't need to recruit experienced designers.
Terry Edwards [00:41:32]:
All you need to recruit is individuals who can follow instructions. Exactly the same thing applies to recruiters. In my opinion, so many recruiters, myself included, when I had my recruitment was a stink. Yeah, I'm going to create my own business. I'm going to bring in experienced consultants. We're going to build this multi million, you know, dollar pound business and I'm going to ride off into Sunset with a load of money in my back pocket. It's a fantasy. It's never going to happen for 99% of recruiters.
Terry Edwards [00:41:56]:
It just isn't going to happen. One of the reasons why, why would an experienced consultant come and join you when they can join one of the big firms? So, and then you realize that so you then know your standards. You say, well, actually I'll take on this type of consultant. The consultant you recruit is very good at being interviewed. You bring them in and they don't work out. But don't blame the consultant. Look at yourself. You've got no process in place.
Terry Edwards [00:42:15]:
So you literally. As for me, when I jumped first into world recruitment, I was given the Rolodex in the phone. Nowadays a consultant will be given a laptop in the phone and say, they're the clients, there's your desk, get on with it. But what if you could create a business whereby you say, hey, listen, we don't need your experience, we don't need your contacts. We've got a process in place that when you join us, I can guarantee you can have at least 20 meetings a month, every single month with hiring manager looking for what you do. And we'll show you exactly how to do it. If you follow this process. When you get job orders, this is a process that you follow because now your business has got brand new.
Terry Edwards [00:42:50]:
So the beauty of that book called Built to Sell, it just opens your mind to what if you were to do that in your business? So the business wasn't reliant on you. Because for most recruitment business owners, they haven't got a business, they've got a job. They work and they earn. If they don't work, they don't earn. But what you want to get them to do is create a business. So regardless of what they do physically, they're still earning good money because they're Craigs, the business rather than the job. So that's the second book called Built to Sell.
Benjamin Mena [00:43:16]:
I think that's one of the things I think recruiters need to all, including myself, work on is like the systems behind the scenes. I had an interview a few weeks ago with a guy who has a firm. The average desk in his firm is about 800k.
Terry Edwards [00:43:28]:
Wow.
Benjamin Mena [00:43:29]:
They spend about $36,000 before somebody starts, like with all the systems and the processes and everything, just to make sure that person when they do start out the gate.
Terry Edwards [00:43:41]:
Fantastic. That's smoothly to my ears because so many recruiters don't do that. And I say, how much you spend on development of your, of your team? Well, we pay for the LinkedIn licenses. I think you're missing the pointer here. That's a great example there.
Benjamin Mena [00:43:55]:
Yeah, well, I mean, okay, so you jumped in, you figured out recruiting, all this fun stuff. You learned it, you learned the systems, you had your own business. Now you have a super successful training organization within the recruiting space. What do you think has been like a core to your success? Personally, I wish you could say it.
Terry Edwards [00:44:14]:
Was my good look, charmed, modesty or something like that, but it wasn't core to our successes. We've had some great coaches who have coached us and held us accountable. So without a doubt, they've been game changing. I've probably worked with a lot on our business, probably about 10 different coaches, and they've all served in different ways and all, you know, really changed our business for the better. So I'd say that was the main thing.
Benjamin Mena [00:44:39]:
And this might be a question for, like, what you've seen with the clients that you've worked with. What is the best way to get through those hard weeks or through the freaking funk that hits you in recruiting?
Terry Edwards [00:44:51]:
Yeah, that's a great question. I'd say there's two things. Being aware of the company that you're keeping. So I work with a lot of other coaches, and because you're right, you do go through those stages where things aren't going right and, you know, bills don't get paid and all that stuff. So the first one would be the people that you associate with. So if you're a recruiter, get with a group of other recruiters because it's all due respect, your family don't get it. You could tell your family about the challenges of recruitment and the candidate didn't turn up for the interview and you know, the client hasn't paid the bill. Your family won't get that much.
Terry Edwards [00:45:21]:
You want to share it with them, talk to another recruiter and they go, hell, yeah, I've been there. Have you tried this? So I'd certainly say get with the individuals and ideally individuals who are doing better than you, because whatever challenge you're having right now, nothing's permanent. By the way, whatever challenge you're having right now, I can guarantee they've had that challenge. And if they haven't, they're about to have it. That's life. But they will get you to acknowledge that nothing's permanent. And it's a pain in the butt right now, but things will change and they may well be able to point you in the right direction. And also, again, I always turn to my coach when we have challenges because they are able to.
Terry Edwards [00:45:53]:
Coach is able to step outside and they can see all the weeds and the trees and everything, but they can see what the real issue is and go, that's what's going on. That's what you need to be working on. You sort of look at it and go, hell, yeah, it makes sense now you pointed it out. So somebody outside the business looking in has always served us well and our clients as well.
Benjamin Mena [00:46:08]:
Love that kind of going back in time. Like you've helped so many people succeed. We're talking probably, you know, millions and millions and millions of dollars of buildings across what you guys have done. If you had the chance maybe to go back in time and sit down with yourself in your first few months of recruiting, what would you tell yourself?
Terry Edwards [00:46:26]:
The first thing is that when the whatsit hits the fan, that it's not permanent. Though at the time when it does hit the fan, you're thinking, hell, is it getting worse. Whatever challenge you've had as a recruiter, candidates not turning up. I once my fault entirely. I once send a candidate to the wrong destination for the first day at work. I got it completely on all those things. Pretty gluttony shit's going to happen and that's the way that you learn. So I dropped some major clangers as a recruiter that I can think look back now and I cringe at some of the things I did and said in my ignorance and sometimes my enthusiasm as well.
Terry Edwards [00:46:58]:
But that's how you learn. I'm in my 60s now. I'm better for those experiences, though. I didn't think so at the time. Looking back, I'm better for those experiences today. My thing is it's a lesson. These things happen. They need to teach you a lesson.
Terry Edwards [00:47:12]:
And by the way, if you don't learn a lesson, it happens again and again and again. And until you learn a lesson, then you just move on to the next lesson. That's all it is. It's just a lesson.
Benjamin Mena [00:47:23]:
The lessons over and over. Ouch.
Terry Edwards [00:47:25]:
Yeah.
Benjamin Mena [00:47:26]:
Well, okay, so you have tons of recruiters asking you questions. You like your last. You know, you've been in this space for 30 years. You have a lot of people reach out. I'm sure it's typically around like sales and business development tactics or what I needed to do to increase my revenue. Is there a question that you wish they would actually ask you compared to like all the the surface level questions that you typically get? And what would be that answer?
Terry Edwards [00:47:49]:
Is that a question on wish the video? Yeah. Oh, wow, Great question. By the way. The question I wish that they would ask me would be, what's the mindset that I need to have that when I have it will literally guarantee my success? Because most recruiters come say, tara, I want to learn these secret ninja marketing techniques and these secret sales technique, but it's the mindset that brings that result. So the question I wish they would ask is what's the mindset? I need to have that. When I have it, it will bring me that success.
Benjamin Mena [00:48:18]:
Blubber. Well, Terry, before I let you go, is there anything else that you want to share with listeners?
Terry Edwards [00:48:23]:
Well, we've got a book, a new book coming out in the new year, so it'd be out February. It's called Recruitment Client Machine, where we're going to a lot more detail about some of the things that you can do better, give you a link. But we've got a book coming out so what you can do. It's going to retail, I think for about 23 or 25 US dollars. If you pre order it, you can get it at a quite a substantial discount.
Benjamin Mena [00:48:44]:
And I'll have the link in the show notes. So just pop open the show notes and you'll be able to grab it in there.
Terry Edwards [00:48:48]:
Yeah.
Benjamin Mena [00:48:49]:
Well, Terry, if anybody wants to follow you, what's the best way to do that?
Terry Edwards [00:48:54]:
Well, for me, Look, I'm on LinkedIn. Terry Edwards, make more placements. As I say, I work with my son, Drew Edwards, who's also on LinkedIn. So we're a business partner's, father's and business partners. So feel free to reach out to me there. Or you can go to makemoreplacements.com if you go to makemoreplacements.Com we've got a ton of free training material there, free videos, we've got the podcast and everything. Go there and access some of the free material about how to grow your business. And as I say, it's free.
Terry Edwards [00:49:25]:
There's no cost, there's no obligation. Just go there, get the free material, anything to do with growing your business or reach out to me on LinkedIn. Your recruitment to search business owner. Gladly accept your, your invite.
Benjamin Mena [00:49:37]:
Well, Terry, I just want to say thank you for coming on. I think one of the biggest challenges that recruiters have is, is most of the time they were not trained on the sales processes and systems to become successful. It was really just like given the phone, given the two weeks of like recruiting training and then go. And then this sales thing was this magical thing that you had to like graduate into. But without sales, a recruiter has no positions to work on and no positions to fill and no lives to change. So thank you for coming on and talking about like how you can change your thinking, test new things and make more placements in 2025 and most importantly, change more lives. So for the recruiters out there, I believe this year is going to be the year of abundance. So go crush it.
Benjamin Mena [00:50:21]:
Put in the work, and let's make it happen. Let's grow.
MD
Helping recruitment and search business owners make more placements and earn more money with fewer headaches