From Athlete to Top Recruiter: How Mindset, Grit, and Drive helped Caitlin Burke Overcome Cancer and Paralysis

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
You are going to rock the year and we're going to help you do that. Here at the Elite Recruiter Podcast, we have the Rock the Year event, the recruiting growth Summit, kicking off on March 10. It is going to be awesome. We're going to be focusing on mindset. We're going to be focusing on sourcing. We're going to be focusing on AI. We're going to be focusing on operations and high performance and BD and sales. Every single thing that you need as a recruiter to make sure that you can rock 2025 and make it the year of abundance.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:28]:
Make it the year that that works for you. Make it the year that you crush every single one of your dreams. Let's go get it. Coming up on this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast for you having a successful year. What does your day to day look like? What does your day look like? How's it broken down?

Caitlin Burke [00:00:50]:
Oh, wow. I guess I didn't mention that I'm very adhd. So, long story short, about a month later, I went into the OB gyn, I got a biopsy, found out cancer, and then had to do deal with that. So I was faced with two different or three different things at one point while trying to be extremely successful with recruiting. Welcome to the Elite Recruiter Podcast with your host, Benjamin Mena, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership, and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:29]:
I'm excited about this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast because my guess for professional athlete was looking for the next event, the next place where she can play. And she chose recruiting as where to learn her skills, build her skills, and play her skills. But on top of that, we're also going to talk about some of the challenges that she had to deal with. Just last year, she had to go fight cancer and also fight being paralyzed. And the crazy thing is that was also her best year ever when it comes to billings. So we're going to talk about some of the things that she did as she was overcoming these health challenges and these challenges that everybody, I hope not everybody goes through, but everybody goes through challenges. It's about how you actually look at the challenge, deal with the challenge and get through the challenge and keep on going. So that's why I am so excited to have Caitlin on the podcast.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:14]:
So welcome.

Caitlin Burke [00:02:15]:
Thank you. What an intro. I'm excited to be on this podcast. I listen to a lot of your podcasts and learn from. So excited to, you know, introduce myself and tell My story, excited to have you.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:27]:
And real quick, before we do that deep dive and how you ended up in the wonderful world of recruiting, tell us real quick a little bit about, like, what kind of recruiting you're doing and what you're doing right now.

Caitlin Burke [00:02:37]:
Yeah, so I am a construction recruiter. I fell into that in a weird way, and I'll tell that story later, but I work for TLO right now. I work completely remote and I absolutely love my job. So. So, yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:50]:
And you guys are a fast growing company.

Caitlin Burke [00:02:53]:
Yeah, we are. So Dante, he was actually on the podcast, I believe it was in November or December, and he started the company and I saw his post on LinkedIn. He is big on hosting, you know, about the recruiting industry and getting people excited about it. And I saw that and wanted to be a part of the team. So I ended up leaving the company that I was at and going to TLO. I joined in September of 2024, so it hasn't been that long, but it's been a great ride so far.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:28]:
That is awesome. So real quick, and I know we'll probably jump back into that story in talking about that. How did you even initially end up in this wonderful world of recruiting?

Caitlin Burke [00:03:37]:
Yeah, great question. I feel like everyone has a story and no one was like, yeah, I wanted to be a recruiter when I was five, I always wanted to be a professional soccer player, and that didn't happen. I played in college. But besides the point, what happened was I actually started out bartending in college, and then everyone said, oh, you should be in sales. So I ended up getting a role at 3M, joining their team in the construction world, selling Firestop in Chicago. And so I was always out in the field, learning everything about construction, always out with the guys. And, you know, I. I loved it.

Caitlin Burke [00:04:18]:
I fell in love with it, but I did not want to travel as much as I was traveling anymore. So in 2020, you know, during the pandemic, I ended up applying for this recruiting job in Denver because I ended up moving there and I. I got it and it was in the construction world. So ever since then I have been, you know, in recruiting or in construction recruiting, and I haven't looked back since, so.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:44]:
And it looks like even like a few years in your sales, you're also juggling being a professional athlete, too.

Caitlin Burke [00:04:49]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:50]:
How do you handle both of that?

Caitlin Burke [00:04:52]:
Good question. So as a woman in professional football, we had to work full time and play. So it was. It was definitely a roller coaster. And I can describe recruiting as a roller coaster. So I feel like it goes hand in hand. But I would work full time during the day, and then at night we would have practice, and then on the weekends we would have games. So it was definitely a, a different time.

Caitlin Burke [00:05:20]:
I probably couldn't do that anymore, but I did it for, like, almost seven years. I played in Chicago. That was my first team. And then I played in Denver and that was my second team that I played for. I also played rugby, but that is another story.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:34]:
So I played another story for another day.

Caitlin Burke [00:05:37]:
Yeah, I could go on about that.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:40]:
Okay, so you've been around construction pretty much like your entire career. Even before recruiting, you just kind of just landed in that niche and you decided to stay there because it, like, felt like it was good, you know, that's kind of how I stayed in govcon.

Caitlin Burke [00:05:51]:
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like construction is always, it's always going to be there. You always need a roof over your head. You always need, like, there's always going to be new construction, construction, new builds, all that stuff. I mean, there's so many avenues with construction as well. I've done it all, but I'm always learning. I'm always growing and pivoting within the industry and meeting new people and learning their stories and I just honestly love it.

Caitlin Burke [00:06:16]:
And I know that all recruiting is different in that aspect, but, you know, I. That's how I fell in love with it and that's how I'm growing from it. So.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:27]:
Yeah, and okay, so I know we talked about it real quickly at the very start of the podcast, but you, like, just last year overcame cancer. Like, first of all, let me take a step back. Like, how did you even find out that you had cancer?

Caitlin Burke [00:06:41]:
Ooh. So that is a good question. Tough question. So In October of 2022, I went in to have hip surgery. So I played, like I said, I played professional football and I also played soccer in college and my hip was bothering me for years and I just put it off because I wanted to play the sports. I didn't want to be out as long as I would have to be out, which they said nine month recovery. They broke my, my hip and had to, you know, do a bunch of things that would be a nine month recovery. And I just, you know, didn't want to do it yet.

Caitlin Burke [00:07:15]:
So as soon as I got a remote position, I was like, okay, I'm set. I don't have kids yet. I can get this surgery. I ended up going in for surgery and five days later, I couldn't feel my legs. So I kept Saying something was wrong to the hospital. I was in California at the time. Usc, Keck. I kept saying to the nurses, the doctors, something's wrong.

Caitlin Burke [00:07:37]:
But, you know, I just had a major hip surgery, so they weren't really, you know, listening at the time. And that's when I realized you really have to advocate for yourself. And that's when that started. But, yeah, I was diagnosed with extremely rare disease. It's very long. It's called mogad, but it's myelin oligodendrocyte glycoprotein antibody disease. So it's a mouthful, but I think a lot more people relate to Ms. It has a lot of the same symptoms as Ms.

Caitlin Burke [00:08:06]:
So I was diagnosed with that and was in the hospital for 34 days. At the time, I was a recruiter still. And so I was, you know, getting on my laptop still, trying to talk to clients, doing all that stuff, because I actually am so passionate about recruiting, I couldn't stop. And as soon as I got out, I was relearning how to walk and about, you know, since I was on the couch so much, I then found out that I had cancer because I felt a lump in my breast. So, long story short, about a month later, I went into the OB gyn, I got a biopsy, found I had cancer, and then had to deal with that. So I was faced with two different or three different things at one point while trying to be extremely successful with recruiting. So, yeah, I mean, it was an insane rollercoaster. That obviously is a long story short, but that's how I found out I'm.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:01]:
Okay trying to, like, unpack. Like, you know, you had a hip surgery that you were pushing off because you're, I hate to say this, the typical athlete. Like, I'm just going to keep on working through the pain.

Caitlin Burke [00:09:12]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:13]:
And then you're paralyzed and have to relearn how to walk.

Caitlin Burke [00:09:17]:
Yes.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:18]:
And coming from an athletic background and playing sports, like, how long did that process to relearn how to walk take?

Caitlin Burke [00:09:25]:
So it took about six months total. You know, I'm grateful that I can walk because it's not guaranteed. A lot of the people that have had this happen to them, and it's very rare, so not a lot are paralyzed for life. And so I'm very grateful that that didn't happen to me. However, you know, there's a lot of things that I'm dealing with still on a daily basis that, you know, I have infusions that I have to have two to four times a month. It's called ivig. Some people might relate to that. It's common with autoimmune diseases.

Caitlin Burke [00:09:58]:
And there's just a lot that could be, I could say a lot on as to how this all happened, but.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:06]:
Yeah, okay, so I know we were talking beforehand, you know, back when we were scheduling this podcast and before we even hit the start button. But like in my head I was just like, you know, with everything that you're going on, I feel like most people would be like, okay, I'm done, I can't handle anything. But you were just like you said it was a love for the game, the game of recruiting.

Caitlin Burke [00:10:26]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:26]:
You were still like, you know, calling candidates, scheduling interviews, working as a recruiter, as a commission based recruiter.

Caitlin Burke [00:10:35]:
Yeah, yeah. So I mean, my drive in life, I just am very competitive. It's me versus me. It's always me versus me. You know, I want other people, I want to be surrounded by people like me and like minded people. And I think I had that at the time, which was great. And I still have that. I think my number one, you know, I think my number one word when it comes to recruiting is set.

Caitlin Burke [00:11:00]:
Your intentions always have goals, but intention always go back to the intention. When I was in the hospital, it's like, what are my goals? I can't have this, you know, offset the goals that I had for the year. And I know not all the time you can, you know, if you can't do it, you can't do it. But you know, I was able to in the hospital, so I did it. And I think that that's what sets me apart from a lot of recruiters is my confidence, my intentions and my competitiveness.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:27]:
So do you think when you were in the hospital dealing with these challenges, do you think like having these like recruiting goals actually helped you heal?

Caitlin Burke [00:11:35]:
Yeah, honestly, I think that and I've listened to a lot of books about this, but really having a mindset that you know you're going to get through this, this isn't the end all. I think that that's the best mindset that you can have in life and recruiting and any kind of challenge that you're faced, it's like you have to have a positive mindset and if you don't have that, then you're just going to, you know, dig yourself deeper into a hole that you don't need to be in.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:04]:
A lot of people, I hate to say this, when they're in school, like college and stuff, they play through school, but you studied sports promptly and recruiting is Your new sport. You look at recruiting as a game, as your sport.

Caitlin Burke [00:12:20]:
Yeah, you couldn't say it any better. It is a game for me, but not a game that, you know, I want to get better at. I want people around me to get better at. That's why I joined TLO as well, is everybody on our team is. Is different with the process that they, you know, that they're doing with recruiting. But their mindset is all the same, is like, everyone's driven and everyone has goals, and it's amazing to see that. And I would never set myself back in a position where I wasn't surrounded by people that had those goals, you know?

Benjamin Mena [00:12:57]:
Well, and getting around the people and getting around the growth and excitement and, you know, I believe getting around good people is one of the most important things that a recruiter can do in 2025.

Caitlin Burke [00:13:07]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:07]:
Can you talk about, like, you joining TL and just going out of the gate?

Caitlin Burke [00:13:11]:
Yeah. Well, actually, it was the scariest thing at first. So I do things, and I'm not usually scared. Like, I played football. I want to do things that set me apart from other people, and I don't want to ever look back on life and be like, I didn't do this. You know what I mean? And so I was able to do this, so I did that. You know what I mean? That's why I love recruiting. I feel like there's always different aspects of that, but how I got into TLO is I was at a smaller company, and, you know, I'm glad that I learned from that.

Caitlin Burke [00:13:44]:
I was working remote, but it was extremely small. So what I wanted to do is be around people that could help me grow, that have the same mindset, that we could be innovative together. And I just didn't have that my last company. So, you know, I was very strategic on where I was going next. And as soon as I interviewed with Dante, it was, like, clicking. You know, it's almost like when you have an interview with a candidate and you immediately know that this is the candidate that should be in the position for your client. You know what I mean? It was like. It was a puzzle piece.

Caitlin Burke [00:14:17]:
So I'm very glad that I joined Yellow. Great group of people. But how I got into it, it was scary at first because I was like, what if I don't succeed? You know, you always have these doubts, but the confidence that I have in myself and, you know, the people that I'm with, even outside of recruiting, help me and push me to be, like, to not have the fear. You Know what I mean? And I think that that's the most important part about, like, life in general. So I always want to relate recruiting to sports life in general and my medical experience, because that's, I mean, it all plays into a role like that and why I'm successful right now.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:00]:
So you actually recruited yourself for your next position. Almost. What did your first 30 days look like? And how did you set yourself up in the first 30 days of being at a new agency to set yourself up for success there?

Caitlin Burke [00:15:13]:
So, big question. That's always a grind. It's always a grind. You know, one of those things that you cannot. You can't get down on yourself for, you know, not having clients the first day or, you know, not having the candidates that you are wanting to send over to, you know, your coworkers or something like that. It's like, I had all of this set up at my last company. I had my clients, I had all these candidates, you know, all the tools, and then you pivot to another company and you have to learn, you know, their ATS system. You have to learn what their rules are and all this stuff, and just make sure that, you know, you're guiding or you're in those guidelines.

Caitlin Burke [00:15:53]:
Well, the good thing about TLO is I learned very quickly that they'll let you do whatever works for you, which is great. I love that in the company. So what I did was, honestly, I worked my ass off day in and day out to find new clients to learn another industry, which within the construction industry. I started in commercial roofing and commercial flooring right when I joined tlo. So still within the construction industry, but totally different than what I was doing in the past. So I learned that industry, and for me, what I do is market research like no other. And how I do that is now a little bit of AI mixed with Google. So I.

Caitlin Burke [00:16:37]:
I use AI a lot, asking questions. Never be afraid to ask questions. So just honestly, you know, putting my nose to the ground and doing what I know to get those clients and get my candidates over and making sure I have good relationships. And that's what I did the first 30 days. And it worked. So, yeah, I mean, just grinding.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:58]:
The secret is grinding.

Caitlin Burke [00:16:59]:
Yeah, honestly, it is.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:02]:
I know you had a really rock star first, like, you know, 21 days, first 30 days there, you ground hard. How are you setting yourself up to keep that momentum, to hit your goals in 2025?

Caitlin Burke [00:17:15]:
Yeah. Another good question. So recruiting is always a roller coaster. I'll say that every day, every hour. So, you know, you you can't ride the high and you can't ride the lows. So what I mean by that is, you know, some people will place somebody and just, you know, ride that high for a week, and you can't do that. You have to pivot. You have to, you know, turn to the next thing that's going on and fill that next position or else you'll fall behind.

Caitlin Burke [00:17:48]:
And so for me, it's always, like you said, always grinding and always, I. I will say this over and over again. Setting intentions. Make sure that you're always looking at your goals and, you know, what is it that you need for the end of the year and what the increments that are in between to hit those goals to the end of the year. You know what I mean? So my biggest thing is, you know, you have all these feelings of emotion when you have three placements in one day, and then next week is. Is crickets. It's just making sure that you don't let that get to you. And I'll always have that, like, mindset because I did that with my, you know, cancer and with football and with, you know, soccer and all that.

Caitlin Burke [00:18:37]:
It's just, like, always keeping your head forward and, you know, what do they say? Head. I'm always bad at quotes. Head down, eyes up or something. I have no idea. Don't quote me on it.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:52]:
So I know you got some really big goals this year. For you having a successful year, what does your day to day look like? What does your day look like? How's it broken down?

Caitlin Burke [00:19:02]:
Oh, wow. I guess I didn't mention that I'm very adhd, so. So one thing that I do is always set, you know, blocks out for, like, sourcing and, you know, little tiny goals at a time. I think that's the best way that I work. Obviously, everyone works differently, but the goals that I have and how I get there is making sure it's day to day, week to week, month to month, and meeting those goals every week, every day, every month, you know, in order to get to the end goal. So for me, it would be, how many subs, quality subs can I get out to my clients that week and how many interviews out of those subs? And it's just about all the data that is involved with that and making sure that, you know, if this didn't work this week, what can I do the next week and pivot from that to ensure that I, you know, hit my goals for that week. So, I mean, if I described my day to you, you would be like, oh my God. It probably wouldn't make any sense, but I'm sure recruiters definitely understand.

Caitlin Burke [00:20:10]:
It's just a lot of chaos, a lot of ups and downs, a lot of phone calls, a lot of babysitting, and a lot of, you know, learning and growing from, you know, my calls, clients, all that stuff. It's just every single day I'm learning and growing from every single call. And I mean, in a nutshell, that's how I structure my days and weeks.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:34]:
And I know, like, you just talking about, like, hey, you know, had three placements come in on like, you know, three fills on a Friday, then working for some more stuff. What is working? And for business development right now, this year.

Caitlin Burke [00:20:47]:
Oof. I love business development. Well, I love all recruiting, but business development has been a lot of in person this year. So my goal this year is to meet all of my clients in person. And I have so far met all my clients in person since I've been at tlo, which is awesome. So this year going to a lot of conventions, but setting, you know, setting up appointments, making sure that it's not going in blindly, you know. So my goal for business development is never stop recruiting or never stop being on the business development side because, you know, you're always going to need, you're never going to have like the numbers that you need if you don't have the clients, you know what I mean? If you don't have the recs to fill. So, you know, my goal is to set myself apart from all the other recruiters, making sure that I am being more of a consultant than just, you know, a resume sender.

Caitlin Burke [00:21:43]:
I want to know their urgent needs, fill that, go on to the next. And, you know, that's what I make sure that I set that intention at first and set that goal and let them know that that's, you know, what you'll get out of me when I am working with you. So I mean, that's just how I go about business development. I'm actually going to the recruiting or the ire, which is the roofing expo in a couple. Very excited about that already. Have some interviews, set up, coffee, lunch. You know, my two words that I love to say, but yeah, I'm excited for this year.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:19]:
So a lot more in person. Even though you're working in a remote world.

Caitlin Burke [00:22:23]:
Yeah, well, I'm a very social person, so, you know, I can only stay in this seat for so long before I get antsy. I can't believe that I'm actually working remote it is something that I love, I personally love, but it's very different than what I ever thought I would be doing because I'm so social. But I think a lot of recruiters are social, so they might feel the same way I do. It's just like antsy in my seat.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:49]:
That's funny. But so it sounds like the big differentiator this year is going to be when it comes to bd, like actually seeing all your customers, seeing your clients and showing your face.

Caitlin Burke [00:22:58]:
Well, what's crazy is, you know, I, I've met a couple of people that said that they never have met a recruiter in person. And I think that's mind blowing. You know, a lot of recruiters, you know, they especially, I mean, I work all across the United States. So, you know, I'm in Arizona right now and I have clients in Massachusetts, you know, and so what I'll do is I'll set up a time, have, you know, two or three meetings and fly out there and go meet them and make sure that it's very intentional, make sure it's not just, you know, what are your current needs right now, but in the future. I want to be a partner. I know that people say that all the time, but I truly believe that that's how you get your best clients and that's how you make the best relationships, is actually being a partner and staying true to your word. Because in recruiting there's a lot of us and you have to really set yourself apart. So.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:52]:
Yeah, I love that like you, even though you're in. It was, you said it is Denver, right?

Caitlin Burke [00:23:57]:
Well, I've been a lot of places, but I, I'm in Arizona now, but I work Arizona.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:02]:
Sorry. Yeah, Arizona. But you're still flying to customers on the east coast to actually go have those in person meetings. So that way they remember you and not the 75 other firms.

Caitlin Burke [00:24:14]:
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think, you know, you have to set yourself apart in this industry and I thrive off, you know, people like, that's why I literally work with people. Every. That's our job, is we are people. You know, this is a people industry. So it's like no brainer. Go out, fly, meet them. What's the investment of flying out and meeting your customer in person? Your client in person is a no brainer.

Caitlin Burke [00:24:46]:
You know what I mean? It's like, okay, the investment, $500 round trip to go meet your client, shake their hand, get to know them. It's so much different than just a teams meeting, you know, And I think that every single client I've had come back to me, you know, and saying the same thing is like, I'm not trying to be like too my own horn or anything, but they said that I'm the best recruiter that they've worked with because of that, and not just because of that, but it builds a great relationship, you know.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:15]:
So, yeah, before we jump over to the quick fire questions, I kind of want to go back to like, the. The sports mentality and like, is there anything else that you've picked up from the sports world that you've kind of like, built into your internal tool chest that you're using in the recruiting space?

Caitlin Burke [00:25:34]:
Everything. Yeah, everything. So my coworkers and anybody that's ever been around me, my fiance, I mean, he thinks I'm like, I love recruiting so much, and I have such a passion for it because I translated all of the sports competitive passion that I had for all the sports that I've ever played, you know, into recruiting. And it's very competitive. We have a lot of people that, you know, are going after the same clients, and it's like, who can be better than the other person who could deliver first all this stuff? But it's like, I don't want to just put numbers up, though. You know, I want to be the best that I can be to, you know, deliver the people that I need to deliver and be the best partner. And I think that that is something that is the competitive nature in me, and it's definitely driven from sports. I played soccer when I was like 2 years old, onto college, I played.

Caitlin Burke [00:26:32]:
I think every sport that you could ever imagine is that basketball, because I'm 5:2, so I definitely wasn't good at that sport. But yeah, I tried every sport. But, you know, I was always competitive before. I had everything happen to me, but even now, more so just because the reason behind me, you know, being successful and all that stuff has. I have a lot more reason to it. I want to leave. I know that sounds cliche, but I want to be behind a legacy. I want to invest in certain things.

Caitlin Burke [00:27:04]:
And the only way I could do that is to make more money within the industry. And to do that is to start with the small goals, build relationships. How do you get there? You know, and that's what I was doing with sports is like, you don't just. I mean, you could be naturally good at something, but you have to build onto that and you always have to learn new things or you'll be left behind. And that is really like, I Mean, it goes hand in hand. Sports and, and recruiting, you know, always learn, always be curious and learn, grow. All that, all the good stuff.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:39]:
And you kind of like joked around about being naturally gifted. And I know there's some athletes out there that I constantly always hated. Cause I just had to go. I was the one that had to go run 90 miles a week. But like, you also mentioned that like you started when you were two. So years compound. Even when they say. Yeah, yeah, years of effort compound.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:59]:
Even if you started definitely at the age of two.

Caitlin Burke [00:28:01]:
Yeah, I was. As soon as I, I was walking, I had a soccer ball and you know, I, I love the sport. I couldn't imagine my life without it. But you know, things happen in life and you just have to, you know, I've, I've said this a million times. I have like five words that really help me with life in the industry. And pivoting and growing are two of the words that I just have to always use because it's true. And you know, if you, especially with. I know that there's certain tools and, and everything now that we, I mean, there's so many tools now, but you always have to like, learn new tools, learn, you know, learn how to be the best that you could be, or else you're going to fall behind.

Caitlin Burke [00:28:51]:
So. Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:53]:
Awesome. Well, before we jump over to the quick fire questions, I know we cover a lot like the health challenges that you had to overcome, the drive that you have from the sports world that you've taken into the sport of recruiting. Is there anything else that you want to kind of recap, cover or talk about?

Caitlin Burke [00:29:05]:
You know, I feel like, like I said, I'm very adhd, so if you, if you ask or if I, I would probably go on a tangent. So. Not right now. I mean, honestly, I would always want to give advice to people in this industry is like. And if you're going through anything, I talk with people every single day that, I mean, there was a guy that I had a pre screen with yesterday and his mom was in the hospital and you know, it's like you have these conversations. These are real people. I mean, we're dealing with people every single day. It's like you don't know what people are going through in their lives.

Caitlin Burke [00:29:40]:
I know a lot of people make up stories and all this stuff, like with recruiting and, and all this, but, you know, you never know what someone's going through. And I would just say, like, give people grace because, you know, you just never know everyone's going through something. So that's just what I would want to add.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:56]:
Awesome. Well, jumping over to the quick fire questions, they don't need to be quick answers, which I'm sure you know that by now. So let's just say like, you know, you're sitting down with somebody that's about ready to jump into recruiting. They jumped in. It's the first month in. They come to you asking, based on everything that you've done, what advice would you give me to win in this career?

Caitlin Burke [00:30:14]:
Yeah. So a lot of people get discouraged, especially when they first start recruiting. I would say the first year is the most crucial for a recruiter. And it also depends where you are. I mean, you know, all agencies and, you know, everything's different with recruiting. But what I would say is, the advice I would give is like, you're going to have ups and downs. And I've said this before, it's always a roller coaster. You're going to have three wins and you're going to have three losses in a day.

Caitlin Burke [00:30:41]:
You're going to have somebody not show up for their interview even though you've held their hand. But, you know, it's. Just stick with it, remember the goals that you have and never give up. And I know that sounds cheesy, but fail forward, that's another thing that I love to say is you're going to fail in this and you're going to fail hard, but, you know, you have to keep your head down and keep grinding or else, you know, especially in the agency world, it's just you're not going to make it.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:11]:
And for somebody that's been in recruiting for like, we'll say five, 10 years, they're like, you know, chatting with you like, oh, like what, what advice would you give to them? Somebody that's been in the game for a bit.

Caitlin Burke [00:31:21]:
Yeah. So, I mean, one, I would want to talk with them about if there's anything I can learn from them first. And then because I always want to ask questions, I would say another thing. Don't be afraid to ask questions. I think that that's one thing that people don't do enough because they're scared that it's dumb question. I mean, nothing's dumb. You just have to ask the questions. But if I were to talk to a more senior recruiter, I would say, you know, advice I would give them is never stop learning.

Caitlin Burke [00:31:48]:
Don't get stuck in your old ways. Because this, this industry is, you know, growing at a rate that it's never grown this fast, you know, and there's so many recruiters out there and there's a lot of AI now. And you know, I know that 30 years ago, if you didn't learn computers, then you were, you didn't have a job, you know, and now it's the same thing with AI. It's going to be the same thing. It's only going to get more aggressive. I would say, you know, pay for that chat GPT$20 a month, like, let's go. It's a good investment. And I know that some people are like, well, I want to be, you know, personable and all that stuff.

Caitlin Burke [00:32:25]:
Well, to be honest, it still is. It's just a different form, a more efficient way of recruiting, you know, and using the tools that you have. I would say that would be my advice.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:36]:
Just real quick, don't get started on their $200 a month version.

Caitlin Burke [00:32:40]:
Oh, really?

Benjamin Mena [00:32:41]:
Yeah.

Caitlin Burke [00:32:43]:
Oh, no. But honestly, I'm like a numbers kind of person where it's one of those things where it's like, okay, does it make sense for this investment? Like, what is the $200 version? And now we got to talk after this about that.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:55]:
I had it like actually building a list of my ATS for me.

Caitlin Burke [00:32:58]:
Oh my God, that's awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:00]:
Anyways, that's another. That's another day for another podcast episode talking about tools. Do you have actually a favorite recruiting tool that you love?

Caitlin Burke [00:33:08]:
Yeah. So you know the basics. I could say all day, like LinkedIn, Indeed, zip, recruiter, all that stuff. But recently, you know, ChatGPT has been a great source. The reason why or tool, the reason why is because, you know, I do pay for the $20 a month one and it remembers what you have been doing, you know what I mean? So it's like, do you need to submit somebody to a client? It will make the submittal perfect and you know, it knows exactly how you have done it in the past. So then it will, you know, make it so that it copies basically exactly what you're know for the future or it needs to know for the future. Another thing is magical AI. I just started using that.

Caitlin Burke [00:33:52]:
It's actually awesome. But I know in the next couple years it's probably going to be all integrated together, but right now there's like 10 different tools that I've used with AI and I'm tweaking it right now. So ask me in about a couple months, I'll probably know a little bit more about what I really like using. But ChatGPT, magical AI, top two tools outside of like the basics of indie LinkedIn and all that good stuff.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:16]:
So awesome. Do you have a favorite book that's had a huge impact on you?

Caitlin Burke [00:34:21]:
So side note, I don't read books. I listen to books.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:24]:
So that counts as the same.

Caitlin Burke [00:34:27]:
Yeah, for sure. I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that are the same as me with. I love to take walks and when I do walk, I listen to audibles. My top three books would be Power of no and then Atomic Habits and then own your day, own your life. So those are books I've listened to multiple times. I can listen to them over and over again and it always pumps me up, gets me motivated, resets, my, you know, drive to like own the day and you know, it's very motivating. I love motivating books, self help books, all that good stuff.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:02]:
So you know, you said a few times that you've always been competitive and that's kind of like baked in your DNA. Yeah, is like. And it's helped you win in a lot of places and you know, you had some great big goals this year. Where do you think you got that competitive nature from at your core?

Caitlin Burke [00:35:19]:
I'm not really sure, honestly. Good question. So I think it was just because it's weird because none of my family is like this. My mom never played sports. My dad was like a wrestler or something. I don't know. My brother is a software engineer for Apple. So it's like I am the only one in my family that is like this.

Caitlin Burke [00:35:41]:
They probably think I'm crazy. It has to be somewhere down the line genetically. But I started playing sports at a very young age. My mom just like threw me into as many sports as I could possibly handle. And from that age I just wanted to be the best and the best version of myself. And you know, I love being on a team. I actually call my co workers teammates. It's funny when I do that, I'm like, oh, I mean, you know, coworkers.

Caitlin Burke [00:36:06]:
But it's just, I don't know, I really, that's. I don't know how I got that. I just know that the sports and the, the drive that I had to be, you know, a college soccer player, a professional football player. I always wanted to compete at the highest level and you know, I, I want to do recruiting too. It's something within me and you know, I think that it definitely sets me apart from a lot of people. But I don't know if there's a right answer to that question.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:35]:
If you want to get live, I'm on The board for my hoa and I. Half my emails, I just say, like, team. Hey, team. All right, guys, let's get this done. Hurry up. You know, recruiting is a roller coaster. How do you get yourself through those. Those hard days or those hard weeks? And, I mean, you had hard months.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:56]:
All set?

Caitlin Burke [00:36:58]:
Yeah. Yeah. So I'm. Well, to be honest, and I've said this before, I'm in pain every single day. So it's like, you know, I think to me, it's more of a distraction. Sometimes work is. And it could be a good or bad thing, but for me, I think of it as a good thing. I always try to look at the positives.

Caitlin Burke [00:37:14]:
I think that I always try to learn from every single thing that happens. No matter if I'm, you know, recruiting for a CDL driver or a cfo, it's, you know, learning from that and growing and making sure that you understand, you know, what the client wants, what the candidate needs, all of that stuff. It's going down to the basics to hit your goals and getting through all of that. And, you know, the roller coaster of recruiting is highs and lows. But like I said, don't ride the lows and don't ride the highs or else you'll fall behind. And I think that that is what gets me through, is just making sure that I'm always sticking to the positives and the goals that I have set and, you know, surrounding myself with teammates that are amazing coworkers, you know, or whatever you want to call them, but, you know, making sure that you are putting the energy into what's going to make you hit those goals. You know what I mean? And not wasting your energy into something that doesn't matter. Like, okay, this person fell off.

Caitlin Burke [00:38:20]:
What are you gonna do? You're gonna move forward and see what you can do better the next time and learn and grow from that. And then that's what makes you, you know, better at recruiting.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:32]:
Take a step back. Like, you know, fast forward. After soccer, after college, after, you know, working the sales position, you got into the recruiting world. Let's maybe picture yourself a month in. You've been smiling, you've been dialing. You're doing exactly what they tell you to do. But if you had the chance, knowing everything that you know now, to sit down with yourself at that point in time, what would you tell yourself?

Caitlin Burke [00:38:56]:
So at my first recruiting position, at.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:58]:
The very beginning of your recruiting career.

Caitlin Burke [00:39:01]:
I would say, it's not always going to be like this. You know, my first recruiting position was like, I Said it was old school, the way that they were doing things. I got out of it, you know, and got into a recruiting role where I had a lot more, you know, say, and doing things the way that I want to do things more. It was more, you know, new, newer age. I do still cold call and all that stuff. But, you know, I wasn't able to text my candidates. I had very strict rules, you know, and now it's like, I would just say that you're learning from this. It's an experience.

Caitlin Burke [00:39:41]:
This is how you got into recruiting. And, you know, in the next four years, you're gonna be extremely successful and you're gonna meet a lot of great people and you're gonna go through a lot of crazy stuff, but, you know, just keep your head up. That's really what I would say is like, I've said this a million times. Keep grinding.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:00]:
Well, I mean, let me ask you about your health scares that you had to overcome, like, knowing what the other side looked like.

Caitlin Burke [00:40:07]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:08]:
If you had a chance to talk to yourself beforehand, like, before you went all through that, is there anything that you would tell yourself?

Caitlin Burke [00:40:15]:
It's so weird because when you're in it, you don't. You don't think about anything else but surviving. So, you know, that's a hard question. It's like, I don't really have anything that I would just tell myself in that time, because when you're in a surviving mode with, like, I mean, I was paralyzed. I had to relearn how to walk. I had cancer. I, you know, I had a hip surgery, so my hip was broken in half, so I had to relearn how to walk in two different ways. So it was really like one step at a time, literally.

Caitlin Burke [00:40:46]:
And, you know, I had a passion for sports, and I honestly will never, ever, ever be able to play again. And it's okay. Things happen. Life happens. You know, you have to move forward. That's what I told myself at that time, and that's what I'd still tell myself now, and that's what I tell myself with every single thing that happens now. Because I've been through a lot and this is only my story. I mean, there's a lot of things that happen around me other than that as well.

Caitlin Burke [00:41:12]:
But, you know, that'd be another podcast. But, yeah, I would stick to what I said when I was going through it is just keep moving forward day by day, and. Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:25]:
Awesome. Well, let me just, you know, you very team focus, which I. I think is amazing. And I'm sure Dante loves that too. But when it comes to like, you know, I'm sure you get asked questions like, hey, you know, you crushed it your first month. Like, you did this, you've done that, you're doing this. You get recruiters probably asking you like, hey, what are you doing? Like this or that, or tell me, like, how you're doing business development. Is there a question that you wish they would actually ask you when it comes to winning or recruiting? And what would be that answer?

Caitlin Burke [00:41:55]:
So, you know, a lot of people ask me, like, how are you getting clients? Like, you know, sometimes I have a lot of success and they see it, so they'll ask me. And, you know, what I'm doing is I'm seeing what works at this moment. And if it works, I'm using it and I'm going with it. If it doesn't, I'll pivot and do something else. But right now, I would say a lot of like LinkedIn and, you know, picking up the phone, calling, all that stuff. You know, people aren't really on their phones 24 7, especially in the construction industry. They'll read a text or they'll read a LinkedIn message, but they won't pick up the phone. And, and so I think that you have to really know your industry.

Caitlin Burke [00:42:38]:
And, you know, people are always asking me, like, how did you, like, word this and all this other stuff. And it's just like, it's always so different. So what I would say is, you know, be malleable with like, what you're doing and always do market research. I don't know if this actually answers your question, but I'm just thinking of like, all the things that help bd and you know, I've talked to people that, not just on my team, but in general that are stuck in an old school recruiting way. And it works a certain way. And if it works for you, that's great. But, you know, in this day and age, I sound old. People aren't on their phones 24 7.

Caitlin Burke [00:43:22]:
They're looking at text message. You know, and that's fine. If that wasn't the way that you were doing it 20 years ago, you know, so be it. But you know, you learn, grow, just listen and try to use it. If it doesn't work for you, then do your old school stuff. I don't know if that answers any of your question, but old school stuff.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:42]:
I see how it is. You know, I've been in the game for like two decades now.

Caitlin Burke [00:43:47]:
Yeah, well, I mean, it works, you know, Still, I mean, you just gotta, you know, be intuitive, really. Like, you gotta know what you're dealing with. And I would say, like I said before, just ask a ton of questions. Like, if it's working for someone, ask them questions. Because, you know, on my team, that's what I love about tlo too, is like, everyone works so differently. And if someone's having success in certain areas, I'm like, what are you doing? I want to know. And then I learn from that and, you know, I make it my own.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:21]:
Awesome. Well, Caitlin, I just want to say thank you for coming on. And before I let you go, two quick questions. First of all, if somebody wants to follow you, how do they go about doing that?

Caitlin Burke [00:44:30]:
So on LinkedIn, it's Caitlin Joe Burke. So it would be Caitlin Burke, and then I work at tlo and then for Instagram, Caitlin Joe Burke. So it's not very hard and everything's all the same. So. C A I T L I N J O B U R K E and I would gladly connect with anybody in the construction industry or anybody in the recruiting industry, any questions you might have or any advice that you might give me or if you relate to anything that I've said. I am all about, like, connecting with those kind of people. So good energy. Only good energy.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:07]:
So only good energy if you got good energy, connect. We covered a lot. Like, we've talked about a lot.

Caitlin Burke [00:45:12]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:13]:
Is there anything else that you want to leave the listeners before I let you go?

Caitlin Burke [00:45:17]:
I would say within my journey, like, it's just been. I mean, it's been hard. It's not easy. Like, you know, it's not all. What do they call it, Sunshine and rainbows. But, you know, I don't think life is. Is easy. There's nothing easy about it.

Caitlin Burke [00:45:32]:
And if this was easy, then everyone would be doing it. Recruiting is not easy, especially agency recruiting. It's a grind. I think that I said that word so many times that you could be rich off of it, but it's true. And, you know, I just want people to know that if I could do it, they could do it. I've had so many different obstacles in my life, and also, if you're able to do it, do it. You know, I would say don't be afraid of things that scare you because you know what's on the other side. You never know until you.

Caitlin Burke [00:46:03]:
Until you challenge yourself and. And see. So, yeah, that's what I would tell people.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:11]:
Awesome. Well, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on. Like, people deal with challenges. Challenges is part of life. It's going to come at you no matter what you're doing. And everybody's challenges are different. For you, you had the challenges of having to have your hip broken and autoimmune disease that actually left you paralyzed. And then after that, had to fight cancer.

Caitlin Burke [00:46:34]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:34]:
And you still got back up and you kept on pushing and kept on living. So I know when it's hard when you're in those challenges to think about, like, when it's going to end. But focus on the end, Focus on the next goal, and focus on keep driving. And you know what? That is the way to make 2025 the most amazing year yet.

Caitlin Burke [00:46:56]:
I agree. I'm excited.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:59]:
All right. Until next time, guys. Thank you.