From $1.4 Million Desk to Life-Changing Impact: Sharon Hulce's Masterclass on Retained Recruiting and Relentless Success

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
Coming up on this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast, if you really want.

Sharon [00:00:04]:
To be successful in this business, I can't stress enough. You've got to go all in. Like, you can't serve a million masters. Nobody can serve a million masters. You get in this business and you have one foot in and one foot out. Don't even do it like, get out.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:20]:
Welcome to the Elite Recruiter Podcast with your host, Benjamin Mena, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership, and placements. I'm so excited about this episode of the podcast because our guest currently runs a $1.4 million desk while managing a team. And on top of that, we're going to talk about many things. We're going to talk about how she moved from a full contingent desk to a retained desk. We're going to talk about how she runs the organization. She's going to share so many things that can help you grow and make sure that 2025 is going to be the best year possible. So, Sharon, welcome to the podcast.

Sharon [00:01:02]:
Thank you so much.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:03]:
So excited that you're here. And real quick, like, 30 seconds, give us a quick introduction about yourself.

Sharon [00:01:08]:
So 28 years in the business, still work in the construction industry, which I was the first female construction recruiter in the country, which was a hoot. And I live in Appleton, Wisconsin.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:19]:
Oh, wow, it must be cold there, right?

Sharon [00:01:21]:
We're supposed to get 8 inches of snow today.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:24]:
Well, we'll make.

Sharon [00:01:25]:
I live a couple of months in Florida. That's better.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:28]:
That's probably the smart thing to do. If I start seeing snow in the background, I'll be like, all right, we need to get off. Well, okay. So, you know, you mentioned that you were the very first female recruiter in the construction space across the U.S. how did you even end up in recruiting?

Sharon [00:01:43]:
So it was kind of like everybody. You don't plan on it, right? So I was working for a women's clothing company out of North Carolina, and I flew every day. So I hired their salespeople across the country. And I was traveling from St. Louis to Chicago, and, you know, flight attendants, please prepare for landing. And we didn't land. We didn't land. Well, come to find out, our landing gear was back where we took off, one side where we took off in St.

Sharon [00:02:07]:
Louis. So we had to have a belly landing. Problem is they had refueled, so we're in air for four hours. Landed fine, bumpy, but it was fine. But I became at that time a nervous flyer and I had to fly every day. So I decided to kind of figure out something different. And another firm had tried to recruit me out of Chicago, accepted the role log story, couldn't take that role because of who's now my ex husband, and opened up the yellow pages, which is what we had because we didn't have computers back in the dinosaur days. And I saw management recruiters, Appleton.

Sharon [00:02:38]:
And that's how I literally ended up in the business.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:40]:
That is.

Sharon [00:02:41]:
Wow.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:41]:
You just like found a job like as a recruiter and just jumped right in. Okay, so how did he even end up in the construction niche then?

Sharon [00:02:48]:
Another fine story. Men. So I had dealt with high maintenance women for nine years and I loved my job. But I mean, after a while, I had just gotten to be a lot. So I remember my first day, Russ said to me, you have to pick a niche. And I'm like, what does that mean? He said, we have to specialize in an industry. And I said, okay, I'll do anything you want as long as it's male dominated. He said, construction.

Sharon [00:03:09]:
I said, great, I know what a hammer is. Let's go. That's literally all I knew about construction.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:14]:
Okay, so wait, hold on a second. The very first day, you're sitting down, you know nothing about recruiting. You know nothing. How about how the space works? And he like, the guy's like, pick a niche.

Sharon [00:03:24]:
That's exactly what they did back then. I mean, again, it was old school. We didn't have computers. We had a Rolodex and a phone. No, I mean, you had a mail resumes back then. It was crazy what the differences are to today. But yeah, I just said anything mailed out and construction, to this day, I love it, love it, love it. Because if it's my personality, you know, I like to flirt, I like to have fun, I like to laugh, I like to tell, you know, weird jokes.

Sharon [00:03:51]:
And my guys like that. So it just works.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:53]:
That is awesome. Okay, so when you started, were you like doing. Just doing everything contingent? How did you like, when did you start flipping into retained?

Sharon [00:04:01]:
So MRI was contingent back then? I mean, everybody was contingent. So I worked for Russ seven years. I bought my desk and started employment resource group because I really wanted to own my own. And he was 67 and just was not ready to get out. So it was one of those things. I'm like, I'm ready. So I made the decision. All my clients through the years had changed their value prop.

Sharon [00:04:22]:
Right? They're always going, well, now we are going to focus on healthcare, construction, or now we're going to be known for senior living or whatever it was. So I thought, all right, this is like the one opportunity I have to draw a line in the stand and say I'm a retaining firm. So I never look back, and I never did a contingent search. Easy to say from the moment I started ERG. So it's been 24 years, and I've never done a contingent search since.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:47]:
Okay, we're going to talk about that, but I want to take a few steps back. So about seven years of working at mri, you, like, just hit the point. Like, what made you decide that I need to start my own business?

Sharon [00:04:58]:
You know, it was probably a lot of things, but the number one thing I would tell you is, was how we did the business. It was very transactional. And there was a defining moment that I went, I need to do my own. And that was I had worked with a company in Milwaukee and I had billed half a million dollars to them a year before. I mean, that's a lot of money. And he made the comment, you know, you could at least come buy me breakfast. So I went into Russ and I said, I'm going to go down. I'm going to buy Dan breakfast.

Sharon [00:05:23]:
And he goes, sharon, you don't understand. This is a phone business. And they said, no, you don't understand. This is a relationship business. And that was the day I decided I was going to start my own.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:33]:
You built a half million dollars and they didn't. And they didn't want you to buy them breakfast, Right?

Sharon [00:05:39]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:39]:
Okay.

Sharon [00:05:39]:
Again, old school owner. You know, everything was on the phone. You make 200 calls a day. Smile and dial. I mean, which I'm glad I have that background because it made me resilient and it made me a really good recruiter. But at the same time, I knew that people got jobs because of here, but they lose them because of who they are and here. So the more I knew about who they are, the culture of the company, how it's all the things that recruiters miss that make you successful. The pace.

Sharon [00:06:06]:
Is it faster? Is it slow? Are they loud? Are they quiet? I mean, so by going out, which I started doing the minute I opened my own, I don't take a new job, order from a new client unless I go out. That's it. Like, if I don't come see you, we don't do it. So it really helps you to identify who's going to fit from a cultural perspective, not just from a technical skill perspective. Perspective.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:27]:
So it was your chance to. And what was the conversation like when you're like, hey, I want to leave.

Sharon [00:06:31]:
Oh God. It was awful. Horrible because. So I was 95% of his volume. I mean I was national work year of the year, June 2 to December 1. So it was horrible because I was like his only producer. So I went in fully intending. I was not going to violate my not compete.

Sharon [00:06:48]:
I was going to drive 50 miles. I was going to start a healthcare desk. I mean I had it already, right? MRI. I resigned at 9 and by new and I owned a franchise. Oh. And they forced him to sell me my desk.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:58]:
Good job. Then they're, they're like, I didn't really. We like her Uber did it because.

Sharon [00:07:02]:
I was a top five producer and they're like, you're not leaving the network. So they were very gracious and helped me to buy my practice, which was great because, you know, now I've been in construction 28 years and I literally still deal with a lot of the same customers and I love it as much today as I did back then.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:18]:
You have never done a contingent?

Sharon [00:07:21]:
Not since I opened erg, which is incredible.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:23]:
And like, I know one of the things that we talked about offline is like you just cut retainers all day long.

Sharon [00:07:28]:
All day long. I will tell you, it isn't as easy as just saying you just do retainer. I mean, so when I told my existing customers that I was going fully retained, I lost my top three customers in my first week of business. And I thought, Sharon, if you don't draw a line in the sand and say this is how I'm going to work, this is my retained process. And you have to have a good retained process if you're going to be retained. This is my process, then no, I'm not going to work with you. Within a month, they all three were back. But I'll tell you what scared the pants off of me because I thought, okay, you just lost your top three customers and you just opened your own company.

Sharon [00:08:04]:
Nice job, Sharon. Way to go. You got through it and they all came back and they're all still customers today. So it's great.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:11]:
So all of them are still customers, like 20 something.

Sharon [00:08:14]:
Yeah, they're all still 28 years later, we're still doing the deal.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:17]:
So what's the secret to these long term relationships then?

Sharon [00:08:20]:
Well, my contract helps. I have a multiple position contract that creates exclusivity and gives them kind of a discount along the way the more positions they fill with us. So that's That's a really helpful thing to lock them in as keeping them, I help you, you help me kind of thing. I also never done a word search under 25% other than with that multiple discount and it always starts there. So that part, you know, when we get seven, eight a year, they're getting a better deal. So that's kind of nice. And you know, I know we're going to talk about this probably a little bit later, but I am never not available. Like literally if they call me Sunday afternoon, I answer their call.

Sharon [00:08:57]:
If they call me at five in the morning, they know I'm an early riser. I get up at 4, so they know that at 5 o'clock I'm available. So they'll call as long as they don't call after 10 because I'm sleeping and I won't hear it. But you know, I'll, I take their call whenever they call and they know I'm always accessible. A lot of people don't, you know, they want more work, life balance. I think my longevity in the business, my success in the business really is contingent on the fact that they work with me because they know they can get to me unless I'm in a meeting. I answer their call.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:26]:
Okay, so let's fast forward a bit. A little better. Let's take a few steps back. So you, you know, you were a rookie of the year when it comes to the MRI network. Out the door, out the gate, hammered. You were the big biller in your office, which mindset wise, everybody around you is like working different. Were you just like in the zone yourself?

Sharon [00:09:45]:
Oh, a hundred percent. You know, there's a lot of things that influence you and how you work. So I was born and raised on a dairy farm. That itself, although I've never bumped college, that's a whole nother story. But you know, I, I was taught very early on that you work hard if you're going to be successful. My dad was a huge influence in my life. He died when I was 24, but he was a really big influence when it came to mindset. He was very much about, you can do anything you want.

Sharon [00:10:10]:
And he would always say to me, you're the one, you're the one. So he would give me these like, you know, things to think about. And one of the things he had said to me years ago that is literally how I live my business life is be the buffalo. So, so the buffalo is the only mammal that runs toward a storm to get through it faster. All the other mammals run away thinking they can avoid the storm. So he said, I'm going to tell you what. If you have a challenge at work or at home, run toward it. Don't run away from it because you're still going to go through the challenge.

Sharon [00:10:39]:
You're just avoiding the inevitable. So for me in business, if I have something that's a challenge, I just run into it and I just say, listen, I'm going through it and I'm going to get through it faster because either way I'm going to have to deal with it. And it served me very well with customers that aren't happy. You know, there's a lot of things that happen when you own a business, and to me, it's taking it head on. Don't avoid it or just get mad about it or any of that, because it doesn't solve anything. I'm in it to win it head on.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:07]:
Let's go in it to win it. Be the Buffalo.

Sharon [00:11:09]:
Absolute power.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:10]:
So, you know, start your own firm. Big Biller, probably top of the ranks with mri. What did you realize that you needed to expand your team outside of yourself?

Sharon [00:11:19]:
So I think there is a capacity where you hit where you know that there just is no more juice in the tank, meaning there's not enough hours in the day. You can't serve the people the way you want to. That happened pretty early for me because I brought forward a million dollar construction desk. So when I bought my desk, I was doing a million and I was already like working all the time. And when I started my company, my daughter was 2, I have one child, she was 2. And I was like, all right, this is. I mean, literally I would forget to feed her. And my assistant would pop in at 8:30 and I'd go, you want me to go get like a Happy Meal or something? I mean, that's.

Sharon [00:11:54]:
It was insane back then. So that's when I started to realize that the company couldn't get any bigger because I was at capacity on the timescale. So that's when I started to add. So I added pretty early and I've added, you know, up and down throughout the years. But right now I have a team of 12 and it's a good number right now.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:11]:
So you have a team of 12. And it's one of those things I see a lot of like recruiting firm owners. They hit a certain point and they're like, I'm going to move more towards like the operational side or the management side of owning the business.

Sharon [00:12:22]:
I suck at that. That is really happening.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:25]:
Okay, there's the answer to the first question.

Sharon [00:12:28]:
Really good recruiter and I know my limitations. I have great people who do the IT stuff. I have really good operations people. I have people who manage the team meaning you know, they have the one on ones and they help them to learn and grow and all of that. What I do really, really well. And I think that this is part of where as you get older you have this self actualization of what am I really good at and why don't I stay in my sweet spot and hire people who are better at all that other stuff. So for me I can write a retainer like nobody's business. I mean we average between 50 and 70 retainers all the time.

Sharon [00:13:03]:
This week alone I wrote six like and it's Thursday morning. So you know that is a skill set that I've honed in really really well. So why not just do that? Why am I trying to be something to everyone and serve a million masters when I know that I'm not great at. I hate it. Like literally I will make Cal come in and like figure out all of it because I hate it. So why try to put myself in a place where I'm going to take hours on end? I mean I can get through what I need to get through technology wise to do my job. But you know, I let them figure out the AI stuff, I let them figure out the new softwares implemented into the organization and I just do the deal man. I just, I get in it, I bring in the work and I help close and that's my job.

Sharon [00:13:52]:
And I think if you're going to grow, if you're going to scale, figure out what you do and do really well and then hire other people who are good at the pieces you're not and that'll help you to scale.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:01]:
So you've done a good job hiring, you've done a good job finding like a players that can definitely fill the gaps. But some of the like the recruiters that are on your team, you know, you work this like magic. How do you train them to be just as magical?

Sharon [00:14:14]:
So we all have our jobs and they're very, very good at recruiting. That's their superpower, which I hate that word but that is what they're really good at, right Is they're very good at. So we do an intake call with the client. They're on intake call as is our sourcing team. So everybody hears sort of what is the win, right? What are the definables about what we're going to do? If you are Going to play in the retaining space. You have to have a really sharp, clear process. Like I tell everybody, it doesn't matter what it is, it doesn't have to be our process, it doesn't have to be Corn Fairies, it doesn't have to be anybody's. Can be yours, but you have to have one.

Sharon [00:14:50]:
If you don't have something to sell, then why would somebody send you money? And we do full book. I mean we're all in. So it isn't like we're engaged. We're full retained all the way across the board. So we don't do it unless we get full retained all the way. So for me it's having a clear definable. They have their piece of that definable and they're very good at their piece of the definable. I interview for finalists, so I interview to make sure that I think the candidates not only technically hit the mark, but really fill that gap culturally that they need.

Sharon [00:15:22]:
And then we go to shortlist and I present Shortlist. So everybody's got their piece of it and everybody does their piece really, really well.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:30]:
I love that. And one of the things we talked about offline is a thing called EOS that you've implemented in your company. First of all, for those that don't know what is EOS and then why did you decide to implement it and.

Sharon [00:15:41]:
How EOS is based on the book Traction, which was pretty popular, I don't know, maybe 10, 12 years ago, that one, Gino Wickman wrote the book. Gino is a very, very successful entrepreneur of its own. Right. Mean, built and scaled many companies and then sold them and started seeing. He was in, you know, like the tech groups and those sort of, you know, EA groups, entrepreneurial owners, all those wpo, wi, there's all kinds of them. Right. So he was very active in those groups. And he starts seeing this same common theme where people don't have the process to make good decisions.

Sharon [00:16:19]:
Bold moves quickly, financial, all the things that make a company successful. If I looked at my organization honestly, we had a lot of the same issues. I mean our issues were, you know, one person trying to manage all of that as opposed to a team of people really looking at what are issues, what are our to do's and how do we get those done quickly so that we can move on to the next level. So we hired a facilitator. There are facilitators in the world that do eos. Entrepreneurial Operating System is what EOS stands for. And in order for us to truly Scale. So my goal is to triple our volume between now and the time I retire, which is six years from now.

Sharon [00:16:58]:
It was five, but my daughter's getting married in 2025. Completely bombed out my plan to save any money in 2025. So it'll be six years. But knowing that we wanted to do that, I felt like we needed a vehicle for the rest of the leadership team to really start to lock in on what does it take to lead an organization? Not what does it take to be a good recruiter, but what does it take to, to grow and scale a company. So we did it. We became an EOS company. It's been wonderful in a sense that a, you know who's accountable and who's not doing what they need to do and B, how do we fix it? It isn't about the person, it's about the issue. And how do we solve the issue? It isn't you didn't do it.

Sharon [00:17:36]:
It's this issue is looming and it's not getting better. Let's get it off our plate, let's solve it so we can move on to more productive things to grow the company.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:45]:
Prior to eos, like, did you guys have a system in place or was it just chaos?

Sharon [00:17:50]:
Yeah, figure it out. No, we didn't. We're just like every company that's trying to figure it out, right. And we started EOS several years ago, probably 10 years ago, and I didn't have the right team. One of the things you'll find in traction is it's right person, right seat, so very much the good to great model. And I didn't have the right leadership team to implement eos. I didn't have a good integrator. So there's a visionary, which that's absolutely me.

Sharon [00:18:17]:
I'm the one who's coming up with all the ideas, 90% of which are crap, 10 of which are probably maybe something we could implement. And then your integrator is the person who goes, okay, these two ideas, I can put some legs around it and we can probably make this really, really work and take the company next level. So I didn't have, I didn't have an integrator. I didn't have the right. And it didn't take me long to figure that out. So we disbanded it until we were ready to truly put in place the right team. Because, you know, it's all about cash flow and funding the right team members to be in place. There's all kinds of dynamics that when you own a business, you gotta figure out Right.

Sharon [00:18:53]:
It's not for the faint of heart. Entrepreneurialism is hard. You spend a lot of sleepless nights worrying about everything from how do I make payroll to how do I make this customer happy who's super mad at us right now. So that's where getting to that point was an interesting journey, where they are now. I love my leadership team. They're smart, they have core skills that are way beyond what I have in their areas of expertise. And it's just working.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:19]:
Love that. And you know, we're gonna jump back over to the magic that you have.

Sharon [00:19:24]:
Magic.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:25]:
I mean, it's a whole. Like when we're doing this recording, it's the week before Christmas and a Thursday morning. She's already signed six retainers. What is working when it comes to business development? For the amount, like retained work that you bring in.

Sharon [00:19:39]:
Yeah. So there's several things that I became really intentional on. So first one was build a network of people that you can do routine work with. So I joined Women's President Organization. I spoke at the AGC meeting, which is association of General Contractors. So that's construction. I became very intentional on where I was spending my time with people that I knew ultimately we could help them to grow their organization. I also became very, very intentional on my social media.

Sharon [00:20:10]:
Mine, not my company, mine. In the past two years when I started the intentionality on LinkedIn. And I use LinkedIn because that's where my network is. Right. I'm not going to do a TikTok video. Like, I'm 60 years old. I'm not doing a TikTok video. I am absolutely certain it's a fabulous vehicle.

Sharon [00:20:30]:
I'm not doing it. I'm old and I'm not doing it. But I do like LinkedIn. Two years ago, I'd be staying very intentional on my messaging. I wanted people to understand who I was at my core. Not as a recruiter, not as an owner of a company, but who I was at my core. I went from 10,000 followers to just sigh of 50,000 in two years just simply by being every Saturday morning at 7am I dropped my cost of the week. And my post has nothing to do with erg.

Sharon [00:20:59]:
They're all about, like, what does it mean to be a good daughter of an aging mom? What does it mean to have children in sports and be a good parent that you don't. You don't bleed your life and your expectations into this child as they're trying to figure out how to be a good teammate. All of the things that we all deal with everybody, company leaders, everybody. It has been incredible. Incredible. So every now and then, then I drop. Like, I haven't. I have all these new followers, and you don't really know who I am.

Sharon [00:21:30]:
And here's what I do, and here's why I do it. And that always brings in new work as well. So Harvard Business School is the best thing I ever did, you know, here I am, a farmer's daughter, 400 people in my hometown, graduating class of 27, and I get this notice that they're taking scholarships through women's president organization, wpo to go to Harvard. And I'm like, yeah, who do you think you are? There's no way in hell they're going to pick you. And I thought, again, be the Buffalo. What do I have to lose? Sure, they pick me. Oh, by the way, I swear, because I work construction, so it just is what it is. They picked me, and it was the best thing I ever did.

Sharon [00:22:06]:
I just Wish I was 40 when I did it instead of 60. But it was amazing. I met some of the most amazing women on the planet. We've done some nice work as a result of meeting those women. And I learned a lot about just what is it that makes you better as a leader? I would have paid the 150 grand myself, knowing what I know now. Absolutely. Harvard Business School was. And we've done more than that in business, so the end game was good.

Sharon [00:22:33]:
That wasn't the intent, though. It was just to really, like, continue to sharpen my mind and my saw and learn everything I can because this business is changing all the time. It was amazing.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:44]:
You brought up a great question. The business is constantly changing. You've been recruiting for is 24, 25 years with your own business. Like, you know, I see so many people that get stuck in these, like, these ruts or whatever, and it seems like you are constantly, like, doing this. I'm challenging myself here, challenging myself here. Like, how do you keep. Keep going like this?

Sharon [00:23:02]:
Well, I've never had an issue with capacity for energy. Thankfully, that has never been my issue. So I'm always trying to do new things. And I really believe if you're not growing, you're dying. I mean, we've all heard that, right? So for me, it's figuring out how do I think personally I can be better, and then how do I bring the organization along for what they need to be better? It's a constant challenge. I mean, our product thinks, breathes, and changes its mind all the time. And I always tease that at this point in my life, sometimes I don't really want to be people. Yeah.

Sharon [00:23:35]:
So, you know, it is what it is. But I think it is our job to constantly. And if we don't know it, which there's a lot of things I don't know, it's to find the person who does and then have them help you to understand what is most important and urgent that you need to learn to be able to continue to have your organization remain to be competitive. Because this business, I'm kind of GLAD I am 60. The way this business is changing right now, in five years, I think it's going to look very, very different, especially.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:06]:
With AI with you on that. That could be a whole nother podcast and a whole other discussion. We spent a lot of time talking.

Sharon [00:24:13]:
About a whole nother model.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:15]:
Okay, so I got another question on this. Like, you know, with a huge desk that you have, you're running a team, like all these things, you know, family, daughter that's getting married, juggling so many different plates and balls up in the air. But you also do some work for nonprofits.

Sharon [00:24:28]:
I do.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:29]:
Can you talk about that?

Sharon [00:24:31]:
So when I bought my franchise, if you will, and started erg, I didn't know anyone in this community. Literally. Like I said, I was a true mushroom. I sat in a dark room with a Rolodex and a phone and made calls. Russ was very old school, mri, you just, you know, four hours of phone time, hundred call. I mean, all of that. Right. So I really wanted to get involved in the community because I wanted to do more as a community leader.

Sharon [00:24:57]:
I had heard rumblings like, first of all, I asked, how do I get involved? And a couple of people said, go to Rotary. Ask my banker how do I get involved? He goes, join Rotary. I'm like, okay. So I joined Rotary. And Rotary is an interesting play because a lot of the corporate CEOs were in Rotary at that time. I had heard rumbling that our brand new beautiful performing arts center, they were not happy with the new president. It was a year old and they were very unhappy with him and they were going to terminate him. So I literally at Rotary, walk up to two of the most high powered CEOs in our community.

Sharon [00:25:31]:
One ran Thrivent Financial for Lutherans at the time. It wasn't Thriven back then, but. And then the other one ran ThetaCare, which is our biggest healthcare system. And I said, you don't know me, but my name is Sharon Health and I own an executive search firm. And if you let me do the search for Your new PAC president. I'll do a pro bono, you say, looked at me and they went sold. Literally. That's how it started.

Sharon [00:25:54]:
So I've never worked harder on a search before or since. I called every agent, I called every performing arts center in the country and I found an amazing, amazing leader who retired 21 years later. She transformed, literally transformed our PAC to become one of the top PACs in the country. And that's how it began. So then I started duplicating that model. Here's the great thing. I met 26 of the most high powered CEOs sat on that board. One of my requirements is I got to interview every one of the board members.

Sharon [00:26:24]:
Then they put me on the board. So then they all became clients. And I duplicated that model throughout the next. Well, I still do them now. I just, I don't need to know anybody anymore. I've been on 17 boards in this community. But what it did is it helped me to understand the importance of networking and it helped me to get to know people. And then ultimately I started working with them and they became friends and they're still clients all these years later.

Sharon [00:26:48]:
So now we do it as our gift to the community. We've donated over $7 million in fees and it is our way to give back. And I always say if I died tomorrow, the legacy I would hang my hat on isn't that I'm a good construction recruiter. It is that I really believe Employment Resource Group has changed the number of services that now can be provided to people who need them through phenomenal leadership versus what we had when I first started doing it is what I will die smiling about, is so many more people have what they need because of what we get. So that's it. That's why we.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:23]:
And I absolutely just love that. I mean, I take it as one of the things that just fills your cup.

Sharon [00:27:28]:
It does. It is, you know, not for profits, are just like for profits. So we do it exactly the same way. We do the exact same process we do for all of our retained clients. And we don't do national for free. We do a lot of national work. Those we charge for it. Cause we fly and we do all that, but the local area, we still do them.

Sharon [00:27:44]:
And it is a wonderful way for us to give back time and talent and not have to give as much treasure. Although, you know, I donate all my time so it can be time consuming. But you know, I do a lot of it on weekends and nights and you know, I can get a lot done When I'm not in the thick of running my normal desk.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:01]:
Okay, that goes into my next question. You know, what does a typical day look like for you?

Sharon [00:28:07]:
Oh, Lord. I am a horrible and a horrible example of work life balance. So let me tell you, this is again, we're going back to the farmer dad. He said this to me. He said people will talk about work life balance. He said, this is how I look at work life balance. He said, when you are a farmer, you have to make hay while the sunshine. So there are periods of time where you will get up at 4 and you will work straight through till 11 because it's sunny outside and you're able to put in the crops.

Sharon [00:28:33]:
And then winter will come and I'm able to spend more time relaxing because there's no crops to be harvested. So he said, if you want to be successful in your career, you need to understand that you need to make hay when the sun shines. So my philosophy has always been, when the sun is shining, I'm going to make some hay. So that's how I work Monday through Friday. I work a desk. I'm the biz dev person. I write retainers, I close deals, I interview candidates. I do all of that on Sunday.

Sharon [00:29:06]:
I'm the president of Employment Resource Group. And all the stuff that I need to get done that I didn't get done during the week, that anything from, like a performance review to, you know, helping to provide a scorecard so the team can interview candidates and then we have consistency on how they judge candidates. That's what I do on Sundays and Saturday. I do nothing other than I might have a few glasses of wine at the end of the day.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:32]:
Dope. It's definitely good wine.

Sharon [00:29:34]:
Life is too short to drink crappy wine. That's one of my rules.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:38]:
I am with you on that. Okay. What's your favorite type of wine?

Sharon [00:29:41]:
I tend to be a Camus fan.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:43]:
Okay.

Sharon [00:29:43]:
I have this new one, so Opus. The Opus Brothers split. Opus One is my birthday wine, but there's a new one called Conundrum. And it's the old Opus Vines that is by far my favorite wine. But it's also 300 and some dollars. I'm a little less likely to drink that on a weekend.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:03]:
It's one of those things you open up the wine fridge on a Saturday. Like, oh, oh, well, it's in my hand.

Sharon [00:30:08]:
I'll drink famous on the weekends. I. I do like, I like Keymus products. So, yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:12]:
Okay. So on top of that, you also wrote a book. Can you Talk about that.

Sharon [00:30:16]:
I did. So I think when you're heavily network in, whether it's WPO or your community or whatever, people send everybody to you, right? And they say, oh, go see Sharon, she'll help you find a job. And I wrote my book completely selfishly because I got tired of saying the same thing over and over again. And what happens is two things happen in a person's life that make them think about reflecting on what it is that their life means. One is turning 50 and the other one is the kids leave the house and they go, okay, so who am I now without my children in their sports? Or who am I now now that my life is half over? I would say, assuming you're going to live to be a hundred, good luck with that. So that's when they come see me and say, I'm really good at what I do, I have a really good job, but I don't love it anymore. What happens is people assume as you get promoted that it's better, right? More money. Well, when you are sitting at the big seat, you literally sit in the boardroom solving problems all day long, which let's just all face it, is a big pain in the ass.

Sharon [00:31:22]:
It's not fun anymore. So that's when they start to reflect on their career and they go, I make really good money, but I don't love it. So the book, it's called a well done professional midlife crisis because it kind of is midlife thing, right? And what it does is it takes them through everything. Should you leave or should you figure out how to bleed passionate and energy back into what you do if you leave? Here's all the things you gotta think about because you probably likely have a non compete or you have something that is going to hold you back from, from having the same big job at the same industry, less likely to get the same money you're going to have benefits, retirement, all those factors play in to making that decision. So it takes them through all the mindset on where you are today to making that decision. So every chapter is a different piece of that decision and by the time they're done, they should have. There's a lot of exercises in the book to make them go through getting to a point of decision and then by the end it's making the decision, should I stay or should I go? And if I stay, what do I do? And if I go, what do I do? So that's why. And since you held up traction, I held mine.

Sharon [00:32:27]:
That's my.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:28]:
And I'm sure It's also like, you know, you saved you time on all those conversations that you've had. Time and time.

Sharon [00:32:34]:
Literally, they'll come in, we start having the conversation. I give them the 15, 20 minutes, and I go, hang on one minute. And I hand them my book, I sign it, and I say, when you're done reading this book, come back to see me. Because by then I can help them. Before that, it's a lot of time in advice and counsel that I really don't know enough to be able to help them. But when they bring back the exercises and the information, now I can do something with their candidacy.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:01]:
And it's one of those things that, like, I feel like it's saving you time how. What's the percentage of people that actually come back after reading the book?

Sharon [00:33:07]:
Almost all of them.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:08]:
There you go.

Sharon [00:33:09]:
Yeah, almost all of them. Because the exercises in the book give them clarity. And that's the thing that they need, is they just. And the book is it. Of course, it's a lot of my life story, so it's sort of a funny read. There's a lot of stories of other candidates that have come in, but it also, they see themselves in a mirror and it. It requires honesty to get to a place where you get to decisions. So they have to get through all the.

Sharon [00:33:34]:
The muck. Right. They have to get through the mad, sad, glad know people get laid off and they're mad or they're sad, and then they go out and interview and they screw it up because they're sad or they're mad. They get through all that. So it's helpful.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:48]:
Awesome. Well, we've covered a lot. We've covered retained, We've covered what you're doing. Billing wise. We're covering. We cover some of the secrets that you have. What fills your cup. Before we jump over to the next part of the podcast, is there anything that you want to go deeper on that we spoke about?

Sharon [00:34:03]:
No. I mean, people can call me at any time if they have anything that they really want to. I mean, I think the thing that people are most curious about is contingent to retain. And then what does a retained process look like to make it worth an employer giving you 20 grand out? Like, what does that really look like? And I'm always happy to have those conversations because it is a deeper conversation, and it's one that it took a while to get really good cadence out. I mean, erg is 24 years old this year. So after 24 years, I think I do it in my sleep. I really Do I think that I probably say what I say in my sleep. It's so practice on what I need to ask them and how I need to do it.

Sharon [00:34:41]:
But it does take a bit and it takes a while to really get good at selling retainer because it isn't just something that people are going to give you because they like you. I mean, you have to, you have to really show that you can deliver or else they're not going to do it. So that's one of those things. If people ever want more information, I'm, you know, obviously an open book. I want, I want everybody to be successful. As I drive around, there's a lot of companies out there, so we really don't all have to like slap each other over the same three. I mean, there's a lot of companies out there that need help.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:11]:
We understand that one. Okay, well, jumping in. These don't have to be quick answers for the quick fire questions. Here's a question. With all your years of experience and everything that you've done, if somebody was sitting across from you, they're literally just starting out as a brand new recruiter like Green, never done it before. What advice would you give to them to be successful in this industry?

Sharon [00:35:30]:
Just so you know, I will scare the shit out of them because I literally, when new people come in, I mean my recruiters prep the candidates for my interview. So as you can imagine, I'm like all in. Right. I normally tell them you have to burn the bones. Okay. So I ended up having to do this because I had a husband who had a bad accident and didn't work. So I was the sole breadwinner of our family and I now have a two year old daughter when I start this company. So like I had no choice but to be successful.

Sharon [00:36:03]:
So I burned my boats. Like I'm in it to win it and I'm all in. If you get in this business and you have one foot in and one foot out, don't even do it. Like, get out. You are going to have so many disappointments. Like you are going to go through an entire process and then the client's going to go, I found somebody on my own. Or I didn't like that answer. So we're not going to hire them.

Sharon [00:36:26]:
I mean, there's a million things or the candidate finds something else. There's a million things that are going to happen. And if you are not resilient to a fault, you will never make it in this business. You'll never be a lifer. Because this business is not for the faint of heart. You can create a wonderful lifestyle for yourself. This is a business where you can create wealth. You literally can, but not if you're not in it to win it and not if you are not resilient to go through the fire.

Sharon [00:36:55]:
I mean, be. The Buffalo became my model for a reason. Because I knew that I would deal with not only employee challenges, I would deal with client challenges, candidate challenges, personal challenges, all of it. That's just part of life. That's the definition of life. So for, for me, it became how do I deal with that so I can effectively get through it as quick as possible. So the reality is, if you're not resilient and you don't have good intuition, I would tell people, don't do this business perfect advice.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:23]:
And like, let me just reframe the same question. But you're sitting down with somebody that's been in the game 10, 20 years, you know, maybe what advice would you give to them to be successful in our space?

Sharon [00:37:34]:
So I speak at a lot of offices for recruiting companies and what I normally tell them is that you have to service your customer in the way they want to be serviced. So if the only time they can talk to you is Sunday at, you know, 4:00, then tell them they can call you at Sunday at 4 o'clock if they need you to handhold them through the interview, I. E. Provide them questions, give them a scorecard mechanism so that they have a big team that can, you know, give their visceral reaction, but yet come together and make those decisions, figure out how to service them in the way they need to be serviced. Because once you do that, they never leave. So for me, every client, why I go out and I meet face to face is there's so many things I glean. First of all, if it's a manufacturing facility, I love to walk through and watch how people react to the owner walking through. Same thing on construction job sites.

Sharon [00:38:28]:
I used to wear short skirts on the job sites. I don't anymore. But back then I was, I was quite the hit. That's also why I was good successful recruiter. I think that was a lot cuter back then. But there's all these things, right, that make up who fits. So for me it's the more, you know, the better you can serve them. And the better you serve them, the less likely they'll ever take a call from another recruiter.

Sharon [00:38:48]:
So for me, it's about that, it's about servicing them in a way that they need to be serviced because all my clients are just as busy as I am, if not busier. So if they can't talk during the day and they can only talk on their drive home at night, or they can only call me at five in the morning, so I'll take the call. Five in the morning. And so many people get in this business and say, I'm going to work 8 to 5, and I really don't want to talk to candidates in the evenings. Or I really. Well, our product has a really hard time sometimes with your parameters. So if you're not flexible, you're probably not going to stand on stages and you're not going to make. My second year in this business, I made $500,000 my second year.

Sharon [00:39:29]:
I went from a job, I was making 60,000, dude, I'm in it. Let's go. I like it. Mama can buy a lot of new shoes.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:39]:
Well, you're also a part of the Pinnacle Society. What does the Pinnacle Society mean to you?

Sharon [00:39:44]:
I love Pinnacle. So Pinnacle is, in my opinion, the best of the best. So the average tenure of a Pinnacle recruiter is 27 years. First of all, you don't make it in this business that long unless you're good. There's requirements, obviously, there's billing requirements and all of that to be in Pinnacle. But what I love is the learning that takes place at Pinnacle. So if you go to an industry conference, they start here and they meet you here. So if you are not new, when you're new, this is all really important stuff, right? Like, do this.

Sharon [00:40:14]:
Do this from a rookie perspective. But they bring you back to rookie perspective and then build you to here at the conferences, Pinnacle starts here and then takes you to here. So it was cute because Michael Petrarch, who's one of my dear friends, he said to me, you had to speak at a meeting. And he looked at me and he goes, this is like the only time I've ever been nervous. I go, why are you nervous? And he said, because every person in the room is a subject matter expert. And I said, no shit. That is exactly it, because I was nervous when I spoke there too. So it is that.

Sharon [00:40:43]:
It's subject matter experts that share things that they've learned that make them even better. My favorite is to just sit at the bar. Whether you drink or don't drink, it doesn't matter. Is to sit at the bar and just talk with these people about what it is they're doing. We're all very open books. We share trade secrets. We don't look at it as trade secrets and I love that about that group. So that's, that's why I'm in it and I love being in it.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:07]:
Yeah, no, it's awesome group and I'm having so much fun interviewing so many of you guys and helping you guys share the stories. Has there been a book that has had a huge impact on your life and career?

Sharon [00:41:18]:
There's been a million bucks that have. So I would tell you if you're going to be a good leader in routine search, meaning you can have a conversation with anybody about anything. I don't work just construction. I do all the business for my entire company. So not for profit. Manufacturing, healthcare, all of it. So you have to be able to talk about a lot of things. You better be a ferocious reader.

Sharon [00:41:41]:
You have to be a good reader. So I read all the time. All the time. I would tell you that the old books I still think are my favorite books. The Zig Ziglar books about selling, you know, think and grow rich. All of those old books, while a lot of the things they did functionally wise aren't as prevalent today, the core and how your mindset needs to be is still spot on. So I love those, you know, I like Good to Great those type of books. They every book I get something out of, I like start with why I like, you know, so there's a lot of books that you pick up something that is everybody matters, you know, that's a great book.

Sharon [00:42:22]:
So it's all these books that I've read that you pick up something. The one thing I try not to do, and I still do it, but I try not to is the book of the day. So here's the flavor of the book I'm reading today. So we're going to do this. EOS helps me not to do that as much, but it's hard because you read something, you go, oh my God, we need to do that. So I try to not do that as much. But reading is really, if you're going to play in the retained space and you're going to play at the C level, you need to read or don't play in the C space because you can't have the conversations in the cadence and the language that they use. Hey there, hi there, ho there hey there, hi there ho there.

Sharon [00:42:58]:
Does not work at a C level.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:01]:
Love that doesn't work well. I mean, you've been in this game for a while. I'm sure you've experienced a little bit of the roller coaster of the economy.

Sharon [00:43:08]:
Oh yeah. I've been through three recessions, 9, 11, and a pandemic. Other than that, it's been all good.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:14]:
How do you personally get through some of those hard weeks?

Sharon [00:43:17]:
So Danny Cahill said this to me once, and I was like, I just hate when he's like, so damn right, because it drives me crazy. He said, if you did today what you did in the beginning that made you successful to begin with, you would never have a bad period of time, which is spot on. If I did the four hours of funk time and I made the hundred calls or the 150 calls a day, marketing and recruiting, I would never have a bad period. Right. Because you're going to find somebody who needs it, what it is you do. We stop doing it because we think we're smarter than we really are, and we think that we're all that in a bag of chips, which in a bad economy, all goes away. We're all on a level playing field again. So, again, Visa, Buffalo.

Sharon [00:44:00]:
And Danny is always talking in my ear, saying, if you only did what you used to do, you would be as good as you used to be. And that's what I do.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:10]:
Everybody needs a Danny on your shoulder.

Sharon [00:44:11]:
Everybody. He's kind of a like a devil angel, though. And I hope he watches this so he knows I said that.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:18]:
Awesome. You know, you've talked a lot about the impact that your father has had.

Sharon [00:44:23]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:24]:
And you know, the mantras that you learned from him. Be the buffalo. The question I was going to ask, what do you think has been a huge driving factor for your success? Because you've. You've done a lot. Is there anything that you want to expand upon with that?

Sharon [00:44:37]:
You know, I. I would tell you there's two things that if you don't have. I mean, my dad was very much a coach for me early on. I mean, from the time he entered me in a 4H forestry speaking contest. I have to talk about trees. And he goes, yeah, and you're going to win. I mean, so he put me on a platform where I had to do public speaking at, like, 12 years old. Right.

Sharon [00:45:04]:
And then kept doing it. And it was like, oh, my word. But he did it purposely to say, these are all the skill sets and all the things you need if you don't have that. People should have two people in their lives that they never don't have. One is a coach and mentor. You should have someone who gives you candid feedback. Not, oh, that was pretty good. But, you know, I think you could do better.

Sharon [00:45:25]:
No, that sucked. Like, you said this, this and this, and that was horrible. You need so that candid, honest feedback in a loving way. I call it the velvet hammer. Right. Hit you on the head with the velvet hammer, but, like, literally, really help you to get better. The other one is a sponsor. Now, when you're my age, it's less likely that I would be a sponsor as opposed to have one.

Sharon [00:45:47]:
But that is a person who looks at your career and said, you are amazing and I am going to pull you with me to be amazing. Pinnacle is, in essence, contains a lot of sponsors in the recruiting industry where they see young, young recruiters who have so much potential and they can go, I like you, you're good. Come with us on the journey of great. A sponsor is just as important as a mentor, but they are very different because a sponsor helps to carve the path and kicks open the door for you to get where you need to be. But both are critical in one's life, for sure. Before 50, you should always have those people in your life. And then at 50, you should become those people in other people's lives.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:32]:
Oh, I love that. Well, looking back on your business, your career, your successes, your ups and downs, like all the relationships you've had, all the people you've placed.

Sharon [00:46:43]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:44]:
If you had the chance to go back in time and have a conversation with yourself, maybe within the first year of you starting your own business, what advice would you give yourself?

Sharon [00:46:55]:
Be nice. Don't be such an asshole. I mean, literally when I started my company, I mean, I worked in construction and I was a. I was hard. I was a hard boss. I wanted everybody to work like I worked. I wanted everybody to put in long hours. I expected everybody.

Sharon [00:47:15]:
You know, a lot of people have said to me, it's unrealistic for you to expect people to move at the pace you move. I move very quickly. I mean, I can get more stuff done in a day than 90% of the people I know because I move really fast. And part of it is because I know what I'm doing right? So I move really fast. It took me a long time, Ben, to get to a place where I go, I have to be good with. Everybody doesn't have the same pace that I have, and everybody doesn't work the same way I work. So if I had to go back and tell myself that as a young person, I would say, give people grace. Give people grace.

Sharon [00:47:54]:
Because I didn't do that well at all in the beginning. And I'm still not 100% there, but I'm Much better than I used to be, for sure.

Benjamin Mena [00:48:03]:
Love that. Well, and here's a question for you. I'm sure people, you know, because you're part of Pinnacle and because you've. You've done so well for so many years, I'm sure you have recruiters that reach out to you, kind of like asking for help, like how to. How to move to retained or how to do this or what's your secrets of business development? Is there a question that you wish they would actually ask you and what would be that answer?

Sharon [00:48:22]:
So I would tell you. I have a lot of recruiters reach out to me, and I have a lot of recruiters that I sort of quasi mentor, you know, I'll talk to them, you know, once a quarter or whatever. They want to know the secret, but they don't really want to know how to do the work. I think they think that if I tell them the secret, they can just skip all the other stuff to get good at what it takes to be good at the secret. So I'll give you an example. I have a young man that I've been mentoring, and I said, it doesn't matter what your process is. Like, it literally doesn't matter. But you have to have one.

Sharon [00:48:54]:
I mean, our process is so defined. It's visual. It's so people get it. Like, I take them through it and they go, got it. I know exactly what I pay you for and what I'm going to get on the backside. And he heard me, but he didn't hear me because he didn't do the rest of it. Like, he heard me. And I think he thought he could just talk out loud and say what he's going to do and that would be good enough.

Sharon [00:49:13]:
And I'm like, it's not good enough. It has to be visual. It has to be tangible. People have to get it. Like, they have to go, got it locked in. Know what that stuff is now? What's next? Now we do this, and then we do this. Got it. Good.

Sharon [00:49:27]:
So I can tell people exactly. I mean, and I've always been willing to share all of it, but they don't do it. And my team used to get really mad at me early on. They'd say, why are you giving everybody our process? Because I said they're not going to do it. And they don't. They don't do it. I give it to them and they don't do it. And they don't do it.

Sharon [00:49:44]:
Because you know what, it's work. It's administrative work. It's a lot of work from a recruiting perspective. I am not got a guy, want a guy. We give them five candidates. All five have been vetted twice. All five are qualified. I mean, it's a lot of work to really do retained search in the way it needs to be done.

Sharon [00:50:04]:
So if you don't want to do it, then don't do it. Don't play with it. You either are in it or you're not. And I don't care either way. But if I'm going to take the time to show people how to do it, then they got to really do it because that's what's going to make it work or not work.

Benjamin Mena [00:50:16]:
I love that. Well, for people that are listening, if they want to follow you, how do they go about and do that?

Sharon [00:50:22]:
So if you want to reach me, cell phone and emails the best way. So cell phone 920-366-5946. It's the only thing I actually answer. If you call me on my cell phone and I'm not in a meeting, I will answer the phone. Email is sharonrgsearch.com they can send me an email. My schedule is incredibly busy as you can imagine, because I do all the front side client stuff. So it isn't like you can send me a calendar invite and I'm going to accept it knowing full well that I'm booked right now like through the month of January. So they have to like reach out and then it's probably likely going to be after hours.

Sharon [00:50:55]:
It's before time starts or after. Then I can have some real time to really talk about. Okay, tell me what the issue is. Tell me what you want to learn and then really dig into how do I help them. I've got a couple young ladies who are starting a business and I mean, like, I have no idea what it is you're selling me. You need to go back and you need to tweak that value proposition. Because right now I wouldn't buy anything that you have to offer. I mean, I'm pretty candidly brutal.

Sharon [00:51:19]:
But it's the only way that if you're going to have somebody who's going to really teach you how to do something, you need somebody to say, don't do that again because it's not going to work. Do this. So I try to really give them honest feedback on how do you get from A to Z fast.

Benjamin Mena [00:51:36]:
Love that. Well, and before I let you go, I know we've covered so many different things. Is there anything else you want to share with the listeners.

Sharon [00:51:42]:
I have to say that this business has been an amazing business for me. But again, it's not for the faint of heart. If you really want to be successful in this business, I can't stress enough. You've got to go all in. Like, you can't serve a million masters. Nobody can serve a million. Mastery. Most of us have families, and we want to give a considerable amount of time to our families and all of their activities doing what we do.

Sharon [00:52:08]:
You don't get to have five side hustles, and I love it when I have all these new employees, and they say, well, I have this side hustle, so I want to keep doing that. I've never had anybody who had a side hustle and a recruiting firm or was a recruiter and a family and was successful, because you can't serve a million masters and be good at all of them. You will be mediocre at all of them, but you'll never shine at anyone. So if you want to be really good at something, serve that master well.

Benjamin Mena [00:52:34]:
Great advice. This definitely served you well for the many years that you've had. The success.

Sharon [00:52:39]:
Yeah. That has grown the earth. It's been good.

Benjamin Mena [00:52:42]:
I just want to say thank you so much. This has been an incredible conversation. We've covered everything from, you know, what you're doing to run a $1.4 million desk yourself while managing a team, while doing nonprofit work, while making a huge impact in your own circle, you know, everything around you. It was at $7 million in donated fees that you guys have done. It's just absolutely.

Sharon [00:53:01]:
Well, I have personal buildings at $33 million. I don't know where it went, although then when I walk in my closet, I have a pretty good idea where a lot of it went.

Benjamin Mena [00:53:10]:
That's awesome. But, yeah, this has been one incredible conversation, and I cannot wait for the listeners to listen to all of it.

Sharon [00:53:17]:
Well, thank you for inviting me. I really appreciate it.

Benjamin Mena [00:53:20]:
And for everyone out there, I know 2025 is going to be your best year yet, so forever.

Sharon [00:53:24]:
That's our motto for the year. Best year ever.

Benjamin Mena [00:53:26]:
Love it. All right, see you later.

Sharon [00:53:28]:
Bye.