Evolution of Recruiting: AI, Efficiency, and Candidate Experience with Jason James

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
Coming up on this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast, what we built is.

Jason James [00:00:04]:
Max, and Max is an autonomous AI recruiting agent. Max sources, screens schedules, manages all sort of the follow ups, and basically just keeps candidates moving along.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:18]:
We talked a lot about the recruiting side, but when it comes to candidate interaction, how are candidates feeling dealing with artificial intelligence? Do they even know that they're going to be dealing with Aih?

Jason James [00:00:27]:
Great question. So I can't speak for any other company besides our own. Our point of view is welcome to the Elite Recruiter podcast with your host Benjamin Menna, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership, and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:53]:
I'm excited about this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast because we're really going to look into the future. And the future of recruiting is going to be changing so fast. The way things have done the past 510, 15 years has pretty much stayed the same. But we are on the forefront of things just absolutely changing. And I have a guest with me who's actually part of that forefront, part of the AI wave, and is actually going to kind of share some of the things that we as recruiters need to do to prepare things that recruiters can do to partner up with AI and really just where the future is going to go. So, so excited to have Jason James from Tezi on to talk about what is going to happen. So welcome to the podcast.

Jason James [00:01:30]:
Hey, yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:34]:
So real quick, before we jump in, talk about recruiting your company. Tezi, can you talk about it?

Jason James [00:01:42]:
Sure, yeah. We left stealth and announced it publicly about three weeks ago. It is a company that what we built is Max, and Max is an autonomous AI recruiting agent. Max sources, screens schedules, manages all sort of the follow ups and basically just keeps candidates moving along. It can give recruiters sort of ten x more capacity or, you know, work with a hiring manager directly to work through the role end to end. So Max starts at opening of a job rec and finishes when a candidate like gets to offer. And so Max doesn't make offers, but like that's where the product stops presently.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:27]:
So right now the technology can literally go from job description to finding the candidates, to helping interview the candidates, to working with the hiring managers all the way up until the offer stage.

Jason James [00:02:38]:
Yes, almost exactly like what you said. The only caveat I would put there is Max will do some like lightweight screening of a candidate the way that like a typical recruiter screen will cover like their qualifications and like, basic work eligibility, comp expectations, that sort of thing. But Max is not an interviewer. We think that interviewing is a very human activity, and, like, we don't really have interest in, like, making Max an interviewer.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:09]:
Awesome.

Jason James [00:03:10]:
In other words. Yeah, everything you said is so.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:14]:
Okay. How did you. And we're gonna talk about your background, but how did you even get to the point of, like, wanting to get involved in the wonderful world? Recruiting?

Jason James [00:03:22]:
Sure. Let's see. I started hiring maybe back in 2004, and so I've been hiring people as a hiring manager for over 20. Well, about 20 years. I started working with recruiters around 2014, and over the last, call it five to seven years, I've done around 300 hires for my teams. And that's typically in design, product management, research, marketing, and so just gotten a lot of exposure to recruiting, whether it was, you know, recruiting team of zero. And I'm doing all the, like, you know, I'm scheduling for my own candidates from, like, after hours, from, like, 09:00 p.m. to, like, you know, midnight, to actually having, like, recruiting teams that we're at Instacart worked with, you know, recruiting teams of 40, 50 people.

Jason James [00:04:16]:
So seeing sort of the full range of maturity and with that, myself and my co founder just see that there's, like, a lot of road for improvement in the primary objective being, like, don't drop the ball on, like, really great candidates. Speed to hire is differentiating and, like, competitive advantage. And in having worked with, like, the top sort of 1% of recruiters as well as, like, everything under that, we think that we can better distribute sort of. You can't create, like, the conditions by which a human recruiter in the top 1% can work with, call it 50% of companies or be available to all companies, but you can enable that through technology. That's what we believe companies deserve that top percentile recruiter, and we want to help them gain access to it.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:10]:
Trey, I would love, from your perspective, what does a top 1% recruiter look like? Because you've probably dealt with all levels of recruiting.

Jason James [00:05:18]:
Yeah. So Max has never, I don't know about never, but Max isn't going to be a good exec recruiter. Like, full stop exec recruiting is like a white glove, like, very, like, bespoke process that involves a lot of ego with, you know, powerful people. And so Max won't be good at that. But, like, rank and file sort of recruiting. Think of it as, like, I don't know, intern through maybe senior manager, but, like, excellent recruiters. Will do. That Max can also do would be like always follow up and follow through, never drop the ball, schedule quickly, source well, and like write great messages in those sourcing emails through like collecting, you know, and following up on scorecards, teeing up decisions about candidates really well.

Jason James [00:06:10]:
So like, I've seen this with many excellent recruiters. It's just, it's a lot like what they have to do and like their role is vast and I can totally see why like recruiting capacity ends up being a bottleneck in company after company. And so yeah, we hope to improve that now to close out on like what Max can't do that excellent recruiters do is like build a lot of rapport with candidates, perhaps early on, and be kind of their buddy throughout the interview process and then be like really persuasive about closing. So some of that would move to a hiring manager or wide Max plus a really great recruiter can make sense.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:58]:
Awesome. So you guys have built out Max and you guys really seem to be at the forefront of where artificial intelligence and where recruiting is going. Let's fast forward three, five, maybe ten years from now. What does recruiting look like from a technology level?

Jason James [00:07:18]:
I think anything that's like rote and automatable, like will be on that time horizon. And so there is so much of the like recruiting workflow that is routine, repeatable, like undifferentiated, largely such as screening resumes and sending emails, scheduling, this isn't how you don't close candidates and convince them to work at your company because scheduling was so awesome. It's only, it needs to clear a certain bar and then if it's bad, you lose candidates, but you don't win them. Now, I think that's the stuff that undoubtedly lose to the AI. Otherwise there is value for recruiters to add, which is what we think is, well, even just like humans in general, where we see them in the recruiting process would be selling, evaluating, closing. And that's kind of like, it's hard to envision sort of how AI would replace that at least. And all of this is within the context of like hiring within tech, perhaps like other verticals would be able to automate more of it because it's like a lower touch.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:33]:
Yeah, I know. It's one of the things that, as we've talked about AI a lot in recruiting, I know there's companies like Amazon that fully almost automated their warehouse recruiting up until the point where they've been doing this for years, where the first time you deal with a person is your first day at work. But looking at the intricacies of technology, the intricacies of accounting and finance recruiting, I can see more and more stuff being automated. But that goes into the focus is how does a recruiter prepare for this AI feature? You mentioned some things like selling and closing skills and people skills are going to be super important. But is there other things that recruiters need to almost add to their personal development stack to prepare for this?

Jason James [00:09:18]:
Yes. The way I would think about it if I were them, and this isn't just true for recruiting, I would think of this as for like any white collar work that is potentially automatable by AI would be take a look at what you're doing, what is a highly consistent and repeatable workflow over time in basically any field. I see that going away because if it can be automated, it will be automated. We live in a capitalistic society. There's an interest in efficiency and driving down sort of cost of labor, and it will happen. Now, when you take a look at your work, what is bespoke that requires judgment, that requires a deft touch? These things AI like will know how to deal with. Now that said, I don't know that every recruiter is going to adapt because like not every judgment is really hard and I don't know how like necessarily to teach like excellent judgment or like deft amazing people skills. I think a recruiter could play a role to advise and counsel hiring managers and interview processes and make sure that it's structured well and going to most likely yield like great results and so they can move into a more strategic or consultative role.

Jason James [00:10:37]:
But not every person has those skills under their belt. So I guess if I were a recruiter, I would be thinking hard about moving into other adjacent fields. And if I were to move into a different field, I'd look for one that doesn't have like a workflow that is like highly consistent and look for something that has a bespoke workflow.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:59]:
And I love that you've said that. And it's also one of the things I think a lot of like, I've had plenty of conversations with recruiters and there's like different levels of recruiters where it comes to artificial intelligence. Recruiters are like, hey, I saw some crappy chat JPT content, it's a fad. Like, it's not going to do anything, it's not going to impact anything. Then there's recruiters that are actually playing around with it. Like this stuff's good. And then there's a different level of recruiter that's like in about six to twelve months, if they can capitalize on what is happening in AI, they can ten x what they can do.

Jason James [00:11:31]:
Yep, that's fair.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:33]:
And I think that's the same for every industry. I think Amazon's cloud CEO or cloud director came out and said, hey, pretty soon even software development is going to be run by AI.

Jason James [00:11:42]:
Yep, yep, totally. So it's not particular to recruiting. I hope that recruiters don't feel like, you know, bad because like AI is coming for all our jobs if we let it, you know, mine included. But yeah, my day is very, is extremely varied. And like with that variation, then it's hard for like an AI just to pick it all up. And so, you know, I would look for that as they consider what to do.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:11]:
Well, let me ask this. We talk a lot about the recruiting side, but when it comes to candidate interaction, how are candidates dealing with artificial intelligence? Do they even know that they're going to be dealing with AI?

Jason James [00:12:21]:
Great question. So I can't speak for any other company besides our own. Our point of view is we want to be extremely transparent that you're interacting with AI. We believe that that's like both like ethical and just sets the right expectation. For example, with an AI, you can feel fine about like interacting with it at, let's say, 01:00 a.m. because like, you know, you can't sleep and you need to do some sort of recruiting chat to like move to the next step or like whatever. Also, what candidates are loving about, like, their current experience with Max is, yeah, it can happen anytime. So they'll be like lean back on their couch with their kids, watching tv and then completing the recruiting screen.

Jason James [00:13:11]:
They get all of their questions asked because the time doesn't run out. It's never like, oh, I got to run to the next call. Max is infinitely patient and so now it doesn't know everything. But if a company gives it a lot of context, it can answer dozens of questions to help them really understand if this is a good role for them. So it's stuff like that where AI can be better than what a human could do. And then there's going to be areas where it's just worse. Like it makes mistakes, people will provide availability. And sometimes Max gets confused.

Jason James [00:13:44]:
And so hopefully then there's some forgiveness too that like, okay, it's not like a perfect entity. So that's why we're transparent. And thus far, we've been so surprised that, like, the candidate sentiment here has been like much, much more favorable than we would have guessed. Now there could be some selection bias that plays that like the candidates that choose to interact with AI, they come into it with an open mind and then the experience provides some prize and delight because there's reciprocity in the conversation. They're getting their questions answered as well. And so it's not the dumb chat bot that they're used to interacting with from support. So that's kind of like it's been a pleasant surprise to find out how much candidates enjoy interacting with megs.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:30]:
I know one of the conversations that I've had with a few like rec tech leaders in the AI space is like, you know, candidates at least many times feel like somebody's actually at least noticing them even though it's AI.

Jason James [00:14:43]:
Totally. Many candidates don't know this, but I know this from interacting with many recruiting teams. That stack of resumes like that thousand to 2000 applicants sitting in like that software engineer buckets in greenhouse, maybe 25 50 of that will get reviewed. It's just too hard for the recruiter to spend hours and hours and hours a day trying to go through it to find the 1% or 2% that are really remarkable that they want to advance to the next route and I dont think thats fair to the candidate. So getting an AI that can review all of it quickly and make high quality decisions on who advances to the next round versus remains in that applicant bucket is a fairer, its better for them.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:36]:
I feel like this is going to become a thing thats shortly or over the next six months more laws coming out when it comes to AI and hiring practices and that kind of stuff. So what do you see in the future of the potential legal front with AI and recruiting?

Jason James [00:15:51]:
I don't know man. So yeah, the regulation right now just feels like very frothy and hard to predict. So we have tasked our legal firm to monitor this stuff and be sharing with us on a regular basis. Legislation that may be coming as well as the stuff that's already passed, but hard to predict. At the end of the day we're just going to be committed to following the law wherever it goes. But yeah, we do anticipate the regulatory environment to be challenging and difficult.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:25]:
Okay. And going back to biases, I hear all these stories about AI being biased because it was written by bias code, but at the same time I've been a recruiter for almost 20 years and I've seen what I feel like way more bias from recruiters making decisions. How do you deal with any type of potential bias within the artificial intelligence.

Jason James [00:16:49]:
Yeah, so it's a good question, one that we take serious and think a lot about. So I think there's the parts that we own as far as what Max does and the technology, and then there's parts we don't own, which is the inputs from the employer and stuff like that. So on the parts that we own, we're very deliberate about the things that Maddox knows and doesn't know. So, for example, when it comes to evaluating the inbound bucket or choosing who to source and stuff like that, Max is unaware of name, unaware of profile photo, has no concept of race or ethnicity. And so the way that Max matches is to the job description. So it'll be like based on years of experience, certain sort of requirements as they're articulated in as much as Max can find sort of in the candidates profile and provide like a high quality objective match. We don't train on like historical hiring practices and data because, like, who knows how biased that is or isn't. And so at each step of the way, in terms of, you know, when a candidate moves from screening to round one, round one to round two, that's a person deciding, that is either a recruiter or a hiring manager making those like, critical decisions.

Jason James [00:18:13]:
So we try to keep Max as neutral as possible. That said, if there's bias coming in from like a job description that's like, I don't know, written in a biased fashion, or a hiring manager that decides, like, I only want to source from Stanford CS degrees, that could lead to biased outcomes, but that is the same thing that would happen with the human team if they were following that sort of instructions.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:45]:
Oh, awesome. Now you're getting a chance to. You guys are three weeks out of stealth. I'm sure you're getting a lot of questions from companies, from recruiters, all that stuff. Is there a question that you wish a company or recruiter would ask you?

Jason James [00:18:57]:
I think we touched on it, which would be like candidate experience related, but I think a really important one that comes up and want to be sure to cover in this context is how does Max and a recruiting team coexist? Because the concept of Max can be kind of like anxiety inducing for like, you know, many teams, and I guess related is like, are people getting fired? Like, are jobs going away? And so, like, let's just talk about it. What we see in talking to like 100 plus prospects and customers is nobody talks to us. And they're like, yeah, I'm gonna fire my team tomorrow and totally trust you guys, like, and trust Max to do the job, like, of course not. It's so unproven. But the thing is, the recruiting team's already been let go. It happened in 2022. It happened in 2023. Like, teams have been rift down to the bone.

Jason James [00:19:58]:
And so now the team that exists is, you know, a skeleton crew. But the company's trying to ramp their hiring back up. But they don't want to add headcount into the talent team and so they're being tasked to do more with less. But with that profitability focus over the last few years, as well as advances in AI, there's pressure on them to stay lean, use AI, figure it out. And that's where I think Max is attractive to vps of talent, heads of talent, as they feel that pressure from C suite and how Max can support them is two different ways. One would be the way that a head of talent thinks about it would be just send the p two roles or the tier two roles that are below the line to max. The recurrent team just isn't going to get to them for three to six months, but there's value in being able to move the ball forward. And so we'll just pair that hiring manager with Max and then that role gets unblocked and can be source screen scheduled with Max.

Jason James [00:21:04]:
So that's one path that the max and the recruiting team coexist. The other being like what they think of as like ten X recruiter mode that you sort of touched on, where all the like routine tasks move to max and then a recruiter can run ten x more roles at the same time. Because the only thing that they're prioritizing is like FaceTime with candidates selling, closing and all the like, you know, busy work is going to Max. So either works and from our perspective, we just want to enable great recruiting, so we don't really care.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:44]:
In all my years of internal recruiting, I could see where the times I was absolutely dying, wishing I had something like this. I remember one place, I had over 200 requisitions and I was working from 07:00 a.m. to about 11:00 p.m. at night. Another place, another place, I had about 70 requisitions all cleared, and there just wasn't enough time of the day to do the sourcing to handle the managers and handle the stuff. So like, I can see like AI just being such a huge benefit for the teams that are forced to stay small. But on the agency side of the house, you could like a max, I could help an agency recruiter five or ten X what they're doing?

Jason James [00:22:20]:
Yeah, I think so. Now at this time we're not selling to agencies, but the companies were graduating off. The waitlist are like startups and growth stage companies and stuff like that. In part because Max was designed for that context. We don't really have a great context of a multi client sort of approach. But agencies have en masse signed up for the waitlist and I think their strategy here would be they can just focus on business development. So finding customers, signing them, and then they have max doing like sourcing and screening and email outreach on their behalf. And then perhaps like they just hop on the phone with the candidates, you know, the one time and then pass them into the company.

Jason James [00:23:09]:
And so they just get a ton of leverage at like a really reduced cost because we're like a fraction of the human labor cost. So I think there's appeal for the agencies in a big way to take what we're doing and white label it and then they're the human front end to go find work and interface with their customers.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:31]:
I love the agencies have signed up in mass. Well I want to jump over to quickfire questions and this is, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this stuff. So there's a lot of people at this moment jumping into the rec tech space, recruiting technology space. And you've been, you've worked at some of the biggest companies in the US or some of the biggest companies in the globe, made some major decisions there, major impact. So what advice would you give to another person that's just starting? We'll say a rec tech company on how to be successful.

Jason James [00:24:02]:
I mean the first advice I would tell them is like, don't do it. It's like, it's just if you have passion about any other problem, like go after that problem. This space is both crowded and the exits tend to be poor. And VC's hate rec tech. As far as I can tell, fundraising was tough and it was relatively easy to get meetings because of like my background, my co founder's background. But like when they talk about. So what's the idea? It's like, oh, well, it's in recruiting and it's just like blank stare, like can't find like the, you know, button to leave the meeting fast enough. And so I would encourage anybody, not just because it's, you know, competitive to us and like a conflict or whatever, but just it's a brutal space to be in.

Jason James [00:24:59]:
We're only in it because we care about hiring really, really well and felt like we had some value to add here.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:11]:
Has there been a book that has had a huge impact on your career?

Jason James [00:25:15]:
Yeah, there's a couple I'd mention so personally. Getting things done by David Allen. I was life changing. Read it in 2007 and it's powered the next 17 years of my own personal productivity. And then otherwise, I think the best business books that ive enjoyed are like been influential on how we think about culture for the company that we built. And I draw the most inspiration from Netflix and Basecamp. So Netflix would be like, no rules. Rules were powerful.

Jason James [00:25:45]:
And then for basecamp, its rework where it doesnt have to be crazy at work. And both of these I think, put forward really sensible, sort of, but high bar cultures that have helped us shape our own, which ends up being how we attract and retain sort of the best talent to the company that we have now.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:08]:
Awesome. And I know youre building a tech tool, but is there a tech tool that you love thats your favorite, that is helping you be more productive or get things done?

Jason James [00:26:19]:
Yeah, a couple come to mind. So I've seen over the last, call it nine months, that perplexity has gone from 0% of my searches to about 95% of my searches. It's just kind of like eating like Google. And what's awesome is at least half the time I don't click through anything. I just get the answer and move on. And that feels great and highly efficient. But otherwise, speechify has been great. It's an app that is like basically a very good screen reader.

Jason James [00:26:52]:
And so it'll voice over newsletters. I'm subscribed to like a lot of newsletters and I want to consume them like a podcast, but it's hard. And so, like, speechify, you know, translates that and Gwyneth Paltrow reads it to me. And so same with like long emails and stuff like that. And then I've been using superwhisper to just dictate things and then it'll clean up my messy thoughts into something that's structured from voice to text. And I can use that in docs and stuff like that.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:22]:
That's phenomenal. So, you know, looking at your own career, you've been successful with your own company, you've been successful at some of the biggest startups on a global scale, you've worked with some incredible teams. What do you think has been some of the core reasons why you've been successful compared to other people out there?

Jason James [00:27:42]:
Okay. I don't feel comfortable characterizing Tezi as anything of a success. So we'll just say, like, we're at the starting line. We have no idea how this thing's going to turn out, and we're excited to find out and work hard to build the future. But in terms of, I guess, career success up until this point, I think for me, I have a very small, focused life, and there's only a handful of things that matter for me, which is like a fulfilling marriage, a healthy body and mind, and, like, successful sort of business. And with that sort of focus, I shed, like, a lot of things, and I feel like I can, you know, try to saturate these three things to do as best I can. And so whatever people can do to bring focus to their own sort of circumstance, I think would help them deliver on that.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:36]:
And I know you're at the very beginning of your Tesla career, but I'm kind of curious of this. Like, you had a super successful corporate career. Why did you finally make that jump into being a startup founder?

Jason James [00:28:49]:
Yeah, it's interesting. There's a few reasons. Even at, like, a successful sort of IPO, like Instacart, and even at a vp level, what I own is basis points. And so that's like hundredths of a percent. I really want to, like, have a greater stake in my future where I own points, I own tens of points. And so ownership is really important to me. So it made sense to start something because I feel like I'm betting on, like, myself. And with that, I want to be able to own more.

Jason James [00:29:25]:
The other thing would be like, I found I'm not a very good employee in my opinion, in the sense that, like, sure, like, I might be like, perform well or whatever, but, like, I end up being a pain in the ass to anybody that manages me because I'm so opinionated about, like, all aspects of company building from, you know, product to, like, people policies to like, senior leadership decisions and stuff like that. And I've always, I inevitably believe that I can do my boss's job better than them. And so at the end of the day, it just felt right to put, like, my money where my mouth is and start something versus, like, I don't know, be like a pain in someone's ass.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:12]:
I mean, in the startup journey is always hard. Starting a company, no matter what you're doing, whether it's a recruiting business, a startup, it's hard. How do you make it through those hard days of those hard weeks?

Jason James [00:30:25]:
I don't remember. It was some podcast. I listened to it talked about, like, what fuels us. And there's like a few different fuels for like entrepreneurs. One you could think of as like competition and so like you have like this tenacity and like drive to win. So it's about like beating others. There's other motivations such as like pleasure seeking as to like why we do things. But I guess like the cleanest fuel that burns the longest in terms of motivation is like a creative, like generative motivation to like make something and like that you just feel like it needs to like exist within the world.

Jason James [00:31:06]:
And I find that the more of my days that are spent on creating the product, like I don't know if it's going to work but I will know that it's like a good product. I will know that like it's made well and like solves a problem because I'm going to stay connected to a customer and stuff like that. So I guess that helps me. Yeah, have some fuel when it's hard.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:33]:
Love that. Last question I want to ask is, you know, you've just launched out of stealth, you know, you Vc backed, you have a waitlist of companies. If you got the chance to go sit down with yourself at the very, very beginning of this journey, is there any advice? And I know that you're still early on, but is there any advice you go back and tell yourself, sure.

Jason James [00:31:54]:
I think a lot about the time that we wasted and because time's like sort of like our most precious resource and like we want to be like, you know, fast to market and execute quickly. And the time that we've wasted has been spending time with VC's that just obviously don't get it, that we have to persuade this idea makes sense. The best ones, the ones that clicked for us, they just got it. They got it before we even had the meeting because they've already been thinking about the future for this space and so we sunk a bunch of time there that was distracting. And the same goes on the customer side. It takes time to figure out who our customer is. But I think with that we've been unfocused in sort of who we talk to and stuff like that. And it's been like really evident like relatively early that like enterprise is a different beast.

Jason James [00:32:47]:
Whereas like we are immediately appealing to like early stage companies and so let's just focus on early stage and deliver product that they want today. And so I think in both cases it's just like more quickly arriving at the like conclusion of fit and, you know, not trying to make something fit that doesn't love that.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:11]:
Well, for any listener that wants to follow you, how do they go about doing that?

Jason James [00:33:16]:
Well, first and foremost they should go to Tezi AI and sign up for the waitlist. But otherwise, yeah, I mean I'm on packs and LinkedIn both under Jason James and so that would be the best place. Oh and then I guess lastly I am going to be writing more and so we started a sub stack for Tezi and they can sign up for that as well on Tezi AI.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:40]:
Thats awesome. Before I let you go, is there anything else that you would love to share with the listeners?

Jason James [00:33:44]:
Yeah, so I guess in terms of parting thoughts, I think its tough sort of out there in tech that theres pressure sort of on all teams recruiting and otherwise, to do more with less. And so our sympathies are with anybody has that sort of mandate on their head. And as it pertains to recruiting, like we're here to help and want to give you leverage with Max so that you can get more done and relieve some of that pressure and anxiety.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:17]:
Awesome. Well, Jason, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on. Like I said, the very, very beginning of the podcast, the recruiting space has really just been the same for the last XYZ amount of decades. Since email came about or the phone books and faxes. Things really haven't changed that much. But now we're looking at this just absolute change just coming at us in the next 612 months, two, three years. It's just going to come at us like a waterfall. So it's figuring out how you could be prepared, figuring out how you can get ahead, and figuring out how you can set yourself up as being one of those recruiters that actually wins.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:49]:
So Jason, like I said, thank you for coming on the podcast and for the recruiters out there, I want you to keep crushing it. Make 2024 your best year yet, guys. Thank you.

Jason James [00:34:56]:
Amazing. Thank you.