Elevate Your Recruiting Game with Brent Orsuga

Brent Orsuga [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Elite Recruiter podcast with your host Benjamin Menna where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:18]:
We are just a few days away from one of the most impactful weeks in recruiting. Finish the year strong, starts next week and here's what we're doing. We're bringing 32 talks from some of the best speakers and the brightest minds in the recruiting space to help you win, to help you have the best quarter of your life. And I'm excited about the entire list of speakers, but I got one speaker that capped out the keynote last year. Now, for everybody that watched it live or has the vip of the first recruiting growth Summit got a chance to listen to this talk. But we are bringing this talk back to prepare you for next week to help prepare for the insights that you're going to get. It's going to be a week where your recruiting business is going to be changed. It's going to be a week that you will learn the tools, the knowledge, the motivation to make sure that you finish the year strong.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:10]:
But to top it off, we have Brent coming back as the keynote speaker to finish off this week, make sure to get registered, get signed up. It is free to watch it live, but make sure to get signed up for vip, get signed up to watch these replays, go back and look at that knowledge. So I bring you Brent Rosuga from the recruiting growth summit to prep you for finish the year strong. Definitely excited about today and I'm sure most of you guys have heard the podcast with Brett and it was absolutely phenomenal with the recruiting community on fire. And because he did that, I had to get him back for the recruiting growth summit. So had to work with a schedule because he's bouncing off to Italy later on this week. A little r and r time with family, which is super important. Brent, I am going to give you the floor and let's get ready to rock and roll.

Brent Orsuga [00:02:03]:
Yeah. You know, I really appreciate you having me on this morning. More importantly, I appreciate you having me on that podcast a couple of weeks back. I'm still kind of blown away at the literally hundreds of messages I got. So it sounds like my story and I'll get into that in a second. Really resonated with a lot of people. But for those that have not heard that yet, just kind of a quick glimpse into myself and background. So Brent Orsuga, based in Scottsdale, Arizona, done recruiting a long time, 22 years, like many came up through the big firm, the MRI network.

Brent Orsuga [00:02:32]:
I know many people are familiar with that. Done recruiting within supply chain and logistics the last 15 years. So very niche specific. And then I started my company ten years ago, pinnacle growth advisors, from literally nothing. For those that heard that podcast, when I say nothing, I mean zero. I mean sitting in a bedroom after being burned by a partner with nothing more than a one year old daughter, a phone, wi fi, and a chip on the shoulder like you wouldn't believe. There was no business plan, there was no agreements. Honestly, there was no client.

Brent Orsuga [00:03:04]:
So when I say zero, I mean rock bottom zero. But what I will say was, even at that time, until today, there was nothing that was going to stop me. I was a one track mind that I was going to win no matter what it took. And still, to this day, I'm very much what many would call a player coach. I still run a personal seven figure book, have a team behind me now, but this is all I do. So when I share some of the stuff that I'm going to dive into, I live this on a day to day basis. So I hope that kind of sets the framework a little bit more about myself. And I'm very passionate about recruiting.

Brent Orsuga [00:03:44]:
Look, I've been able to build a network and community around recruiters. There are a lot of great people in here, but I'm also very passionate about raising the standard and expectations around this industry. I think when you come off years like Covid, everybody wants to get in the game. It's like when real estate is hot and not everyone belongs in the game. What I'm going to share today are ways that we can all stand out, separate and elevate within the industry to win at a high level. So, look, we all know that, you know, 23 was a hard year. I don't think anyone wants to duplicate that. So what that means is that in order to get different results, you got to go and take different actions.

Brent Orsuga [00:04:26]:
What I'm going to do today is I'm going to go through some tactical items that not only I still live by on a day to day basis, but again, I'm tapped into a lot of high performing recruiters, executives in other industries, and this is all stuff that not only do I hear, but more importantly, actually implement. And I think that's the biggest separator. It's one thing to hear it, it's another thing to actually put it into action and do it. You know, one of the first questions that I would ask everybody on this call, to even ask yourself, this is a very honest question is this, in my industry, in my niche, am I a recruiter or the recruiter? Let me explain, because there's a big difference in the two. See, there's a lot of recruiters in every industry. I don't care if it's supply chain, healthcare, construction, finance, accounting, whatever. Are you the first person that people think of in your industry? That is a yes or no. That is a black or white answer.

Brent Orsuga [00:05:35]:
Am I the first person when people think supply chain and recruiting, am I the face that comes up if I'm doing finance and accounting in Dallas? Am I the first name that people think of, or am I just another recruiter, another person playing this sport? That was always my mindset. I did not come into this game to be average, just to be another person. I wanted to be the recruiter. And that's what we're going to tap into with a lot. A lot of the people that are on this call, from what I understand, are agency recruiters like myself. You already did the hardest part, which is took the leap into this crazy world. Why would you not want to become the best? Why would you not want that to be your identity within the marketplace? Look, here's a question to ask yourself, too. Look, in order to become that person, the number one, the top, ask yourself what that person looks like.

Brent Orsuga [00:06:35]:
How do they carry themselves on a day to day basis? What are their daily habits? What are their routines? What do their clients look like? What are the candidates that they represent look like? Honestly, I'll go even more granular. How do they dress? What conferences are they going to? How do they conduct and carry themselves on a day to day basis? Stop and really, really paint that picture for yourself. You know, if you were to ten x where you are now, what would that look like? Who would you have to become? What would that version of yourself appear to be within the market? These are questions to ask yourself in order to become elite. Just like Ben's podcast, Nate, this isn't a talk about how to be average, how to make 100 grand, how to be mediocre, how to whine and complain. This is how you become the best, the one. So let's dive into some basic items. And this, again, is in no particular order. I'm just going to kind of go and please take away and ask questions along the way.

Brent Orsuga [00:07:45]:
Here's one of the first questions that I would ask. What's your thing? What's your niche? Because, again, this boils down to what I was talking about earlier. Are you an industry expert? Do I know the language of my industry? Do I know all the terms, all the verbiage? Am I connected with all the major players within my niche, within my industry? Do I know the good companies? Do I know the bad companies? Do I know what industry conferences they are? Am I consuming content around this industry to become as dangerous as possible? Is this the sport I play twenty four seven seven? Or am I trying to become a jack of all trades? You know, look, as a business owner, you can have multiple divisions, but what is your thing? And this also bleeds into your team. You know, how effective can someone be if they don't really have the knowledge and training to be set up to win? Are you mentoring these people? Are they listening to your calls? Are they shadowing you? Well, as you can see, no matter what goes on, it starts at the top and the person in the mirror. Who are you and how do you carry and conduct yourself on a day to day basis? These are very hard and honest conversations to ask yourself. Let's pivot a little bit into branding and marketing. How am I known within the market? How am I promoting myself? What does the market know me for? Again, go a little granular. My personal real estate on LinkedIn, where I know we all play under my picture.

Brent Orsuga [00:09:29]:
What is my tagline? What is the banner picture showcasing? I guarantee you go look at my LinkedIn profile right now. There should be no disconnect on who I am, what I do and where I play. Crystal clear. Not by accident. Think about this too, as we talk about branding, marketing, content, every piece of content that I put out, is it of value of people to see within my niche? See, this is why all the nonsense around the pods and the fake likes it serves no purpose. There's no audience or real dollars behind it. You know what it is? It's for ego. Are you a consistent person in the feed? Am I bringing value and where people look forward to my post or am I sitting here posting selfies for my own validation? These are very important questions to ask yourself.

Brent Orsuga [00:10:29]:
Also, when it comes to content, you have to ask yourself what category you fall into because there's only two. Either you consume or you create. You're the person putting stuff out or you're simply watching others. You're either in the game or you're in the stands, black or white. Now, when it comes to content, I can't tell you enough. The value in it. How many people have come up to me at conferences and they say, wow, I feel like I know you. Are you building that community again within your niche, within your industry.

Brent Orsuga [00:11:06]:
You know, one of the best quotes I heard is money follows attention, where people paying attention to you so they can pay you. Or are you a ghost hiding behind a 20 year old headshot? You live in social media. We live in a visual world. What are people seeing, and what do they know you for? Ask yourself these hard questions. Here's another thing. Are you being a positive person or are you being a complainer? Are you being a negative nancy? Look, misery loves company. Real easy to swirl down there. Or you staying above it and played at an elite level.

Brent Orsuga [00:11:47]:
Because here's the thing, too. Everything is a boomerang. What you put out, you get back before you hit post. Think about that. Here's another thing, too. As you put out content and branding, what is the messaging you're wanting people to see? See, if you look at mine, everything is built around high performers, high performance. It's not by accident. And here's why this may sound crazy.

Brent Orsuga [00:12:14]:
I want to scare away average. I want to scare away mediocrity. I don't want that from the client side, and I don't want that from the candidate side. You can go talk to one of my competitors. I want to work with the best of the best. Now, to do that, I have to live it. I have to be a product of the product. If you want to see what a day in the life looks like, go on instagram right now.

Brent Orsuga [00:12:39]:
Follow my company page, pinnacle Growth Advisors. I know Ben can validate this. I will show you the 04:00 a.m. lifestyle. I will show you the grind. I will draw you into my world because I live it seven days a week. You can't fake the fuck. You got to be a product of the product.

Brent Orsuga [00:12:59]:
And here's why. Content and branding is important, too. Look, we are in the people business. People do business with people they like and trust. Do you think they get to know you off a headshot? You have to be able to draw people in. Here's to why video is so important. They can see how you speak, your tonality, your energy. You become more real.

Brent Orsuga [00:13:26]:
Now, you gotta keep with the authenticity. You can't become some character or some facade, because I guarantee we've all been in the situation where there's nothing more demoralizing than thinking, you know, somebody, meeting them in person. And they are an absolute poser, not who they are. You got to be who you are. And that is what is going to resonate with your audience on either the client side or the candidate side. Now let's talk about messaging and again, this is no order. I'm just rolling messaging to the candidates and the clients. You know, how much effort are you putting in to making it really hard for people to say no to you? You know, are you just one of those recruiters who post jobs, post and pray? We've all heard the term wait for stuff to fall on your lap? Or are you what I call playing offense, not defense? Are you always tapping shoulders? Are you always building a bench, both on a candidate side and the client side? And here's the other thing you got to realize about what we do in recruiting.

Brent Orsuga [00:14:35]:
In recruiting, you are only as dangerous as the logos you represent. Just like being a sports agent, the formula has never changed. You work with C companies, you take C talent, B companies, baa. And look, we've all paid our dues. If I told you the stuff I worked on ten years ago, this group would probably kick me out from the fees to the caliber of ithood I had to pay my dues before I elevated. But you want a wake up call? Go look at your client list right now. You tell me if they're c, b, or a, because that also is going to speak to your self worth, your self identity, your confidence, your value to the marketplace. Is that something you're proud of? Or how do we elevate and start to work with the best of the best? Which means, in turn, I take the best of the best.

Brent Orsuga [00:15:31]:
See, anyone could fill seats. Doesn't take a lot of effort to go help somebody unemployed get a job. But becoming a sniper, a headhunter, a poacher, see, that's where the skill is. That's where the separation is done. Look back at your last five deals. How did those come about? You know, when it comes to messaging, I'm going to stay there, too. I'm going to give some framework that I hope everybody can write down, and it's all based around becoming an authority figure in your thing, in your sport, in your industry, in your niche. Write this down.

Brent Orsuga [00:16:11]:
Me, us, them. Let me explain. So, in the first 60 to 90 seconds, I am creating the authority. Authority and setting the tone of who I am, what we do, and where we play. What I'm trying to do is I want to create dominance. We are not equal. I am a subject matter expert. This is all I do.

Brent Orsuga [00:16:36]:
I have done this for 15 years. This is the only sport I play. I am dialed in. There is no reason to talk to anybody else but myself because this is what I do. Eat, live, and breathe 24/7 I'm that dude. Is that how you set the tone on your calls? Because right there, you are not equal. We are not one of the same. I'm here to now guide you through the conversation.

Brent Orsuga [00:17:05]:
Once I've gotten through that phase. Let's talk about the most important part of recruiting, which is questions. My favorite quote is this. The answer is always in the questions. So when you get these people on the phone, are you itching them or are you asking questions? See, the worst thing that you can do in recruiting is assume. You know, my biggest pet peeve when it comes to recruiting is people that say this, oh, you're the perfect fit. I think I have the perfect role for you. Well, guess what? You don't know anything about this person.

Brent Orsuga [00:17:40]:
So now you're assuming you let me compete against that. I will eat you alive every single day because you're pitching before you know the person. You don't know anything about their setup. Just because they come from a big logo does not mean they're a high performer. Does not mean they're that good. You gotta be able to ask questions that understand more about the person. And here's the thing that I do, too. I don't just focus on what they do at work.

Brent Orsuga [00:18:12]:
You know what I want to do? I want to get to know the person, where they at chapter of life. Do they have what I call reasons to win? You tell me what somebody does at 05:00 a.m. and 05:00 p.m. i'll know everything I need to know. I'll know how you're wired, because I'll tell you what I do, and I want to be able to relate and represent those kind of people. That's the value I want to give to the marketplace, not, hey, here's five resumes. I hope something works. Not me, not you.

Brent Orsuga [00:18:45]:
Raise the bar, raise the standard. You will attract, not chase the right people into you. You know, here's another thing that I know that we do, and this has always been my approach, I want to take more of what I'm going to call a talent advisor mindset, because on every single call, while I may have an assumption of where I'm going to go, I might take that call three or four ways. That's where I get dangerous. The last thing that you want is to force something through. Put a squared into a circle for your own game. In 2024, we all know what's going on out there. Every hire has got to be a direct hit.

Brent Orsuga [00:19:28]:
There is no more creativity. There is no more, hey, this is a nice person. Let's give them a shot. Those days are done. So your value to the marketplace is hand delivering exactly what your company wants. And here's two questions I think that everybody should ask themselves. And more importantly, talk to your recruiters about this. I emphasize this every single day.

Brent Orsuga [00:19:52]:
Don't show me mediocre. Don't show me an average person. Ask these two questions. Is this somebody the company could find on their own, and is this somebody that they would pay a premium for? Ask that. Because if the answer is no, what do they need me for? I'm going to give you something that nobody else can. Because, again, I'm a headhunter. I'm a sniper. I'm a poacher.

Brent Orsuga [00:20:18]:
That's my identity within the marketplace, not a post and pray dude. No way. The thing is this, too. The more data that you can provide the client, the better. I don't care about a resume. You know how many times I submit a resume? 0.0. But you know what I do? I give them the most detailed write up about this person, everything they need to know, because the most power that you can have with your clients is this. When you submit somebody and they simply respond with, how quick can we get this person on the phone? Because the minute the client questions you, because you're sending garbage over, you're done.

Brent Orsuga [00:21:01]:
You lost trust. I'm no joke. At least 95% hit rate. I send you somebody, it's leading to an interview. Because the identity that we've created in the marketplace is. Man, those guys don't show scrubs. They're not just trying to get a win. They know us.

Brent Orsuga [00:21:19]:
They know what we expect, and that's what they're showing. You're only as good as the people you put your name behind. Another question you got to ask yourself, when it even comes to the recruiting relationship, is this, am I a partner or am I a vendor? There is a massive difference in the two. Do the companies that you work with, do they look at you as a partner, as an extension of their company, or are you just a vendor? You just somebody who's submitting resumes here and there? You know, the next question is this. And this is going to tie into whether you're a partner or a vendor. How well do you really know your clients? And have you spent the time to dive deep into them? The culture, the leadership? Have you ever set foot into these offices? How many different people internally have you engaged with? See, this was always our secret sauce. I lived off a motto of this, if I can see it, I can sell it. If I can see it, I can sell it.

Brent Orsuga [00:22:27]:
How many recruiters are out there telling people how great a restaurant is they've never eaten at? That's what I'm competing against. That's what you're competing against. Please. See, culture is really hard to understand. But if you can use your senses, you get dangerous. What do I see? Smell, touch, taste and hear. I can close my eyes right now, describe 100 offices, inside and out. So all of a sudden, you tell me, when I'm prepping someone, I'm not setting them up to win.

Brent Orsuga [00:23:00]:
It's an easy game. People make it a lot harder than it needs to be. Do you know the cop plans? Do you know the commission models? Do you know the growth trajectory? Do you know the revenue numbers? Are you able to sell this company to somebody to get them excited? There was a big difference in being a headhunter and a recruiter. A headhunter is where the dollars are. That's the value that we bring to the marketplace. Give me something somebody else can't. And then here's the other question, too. Look, how well are you truly playing matchmaker as you talk to the candidates? Or you try just to push things through again to make a couple grand, to pray open wish that they just stick 90 days? These are honest questions to ask yourself.

Brent Orsuga [00:23:45]:
Here's the other thing, too. How much are you managing the process once you get people in the mix? You know, we all know that time kills all deals. But are we setting the expectations with the clients? Are we setting the expectations with the candidates? You have got to work on real stuff with real people that can actually move. You think I'm going to spend my time, energy, and focus on something that's open ended? That may happen? No way. I want urgency on both sides, from the client side to the candidate side, because I live in urgency. That's how deals get done. Never forget this tip, too. I'm going all over the place.

Brent Orsuga [00:24:25]:
But this is very important stuff to remember. You have got to remove emotion. The reason that most recruiters evolve emotion is because they don't have enough in the hopper and their pipeline is so thin. They need that deal. They need that check. One of the best quotes I ever heard was by Ed Milet, who I'm a big fan of. I get coached by it. Was this the emotional business leader? The emotional business owner will go back to being an employee.

Brent Orsuga [00:24:57]:
Think about that. Let that sink in. How emotional are you? Or you even killed. Have you understood neutral thinking? I don't get too high. I don't get too low. I show up every day and I run my process. I know what will come out of the other side. The other thing you have to remember, too, is like in recruiting, we have to win last.

Brent Orsuga [00:25:21]:
The company has to win, the candidate has to win. And we're the third part of the triangle. You can never put yourself above them. It's not about you. It's about serving the market, serving the candidates, and everybody will win. Here's another question to ask yourself. This is an honest question. Are you getting referrals? Last couple of deals you did, how did they come about? Are you getting referrals? Are you delivering such a good experience that people are recommending their friends or families or coworkers to you? If that's not happening, that's a really big question to ask yourself.

Brent Orsuga [00:26:00]:
You know, am I just a transactional one and done recruiter? Because I can promise you for myself, 80% of what I do is through referrals now. And let's stay on that word of experience, this is always a very big word that I take to heart. How would people describe working with you? This includes every interaction. Good news, bad news, coaching them through a counteroffer, letting them down gently. How pushy are you? How responsive are you? How much are you going to bat for them? How much are you educating them? What is their experience? Because experience is what hits the streets. That becomes your identity. Here's the other thing, too. When it comes to recruiting, whether this be for yourself as a business owner or for your team, I'm going to ask you some questions.

Brent Orsuga [00:26:50]:
How clear are you on your targets? Because I guarantee you, you would never just get in your car and drive. You would set the gps. And what happens when you put that in? Usually you end up there. Would you agree? So if I was to ask all 100 plus people on this call, what is your 2024 target? How many placements are you going to do? What is your average fee? What is the revenue you're trying to do? Can you say it in 2 seconds? Not only can you say it, but can your team say it? Do they know where you're going? Do they know the direction that you're driving this train? Because again, as leaders, it all starts with us. We have to inject that belief internally and externally. The reason it's important is everybody that works on your team has got to believe that their own personal dreams and goals and vision can fit under your umbrella. If you're just gun slinging it and taking what comes, who would want to be a part of that, everybody wants to be part of a winner. Is that how you would be described? Is that the culture and belief that you've created internally? You've got to become crystal clear on your numbers and where you are going.

Brent Orsuga [00:28:05]:
I'm going to give you a kind of a trick and hack that I was taught that. I promise you this works wonders. You have got to be able to reverse engineer off of the goal, work away from the goal as though it already happened. So let's just say hypothetically that you want to build a $3 million firm and your average fee is 25 grand. Rough numbers. Well, that's 120 deals a year. That's 30 deals a quarter. That's ten deals a month.

Brent Orsuga [00:28:36]:
This is what I obsess over. I make the number smaller, I make it attainable. And everything that I was taught and implement to this day is I work away. So I'm not working from 120 deals up. 100, 2100, 1497, 62, 34. Guess what, November. I'm 17 away. Now it gets serious.

Brent Orsuga [00:29:05]:
Now the ballgame cranks up. I'm always coming from a place, that number, that figure, that placement account already happened, already happened. Create that belief internally and externally. But to do that, you got to make the numbers smaller. And here's the one number that, again, I'm just sharing insight into what I do that works is I focus on the average fee because it is the one number that we can control and it impacts everything. The higher that number, the less deals you have to do to reach your goal. Are you obsessed over this stuff? Are you studying this stuff? Are you looking at it like a scoreboard? Because here's the reality. Just like in sports, the scoreboard never lies.

Brent Orsuga [00:29:50]:
The scoreboard will tell you what value you're bringing to the marketplace. You make 100 grand. That's the value, you make a million. Tells me everything I need to know. Where are you playing? No right or wrong, but you got to know it. Here's another thing too, you know, what are you consuming? There's a great book everyone should picked up called you are what you click. You are what you click. What are you consuming throughout the day? What are you pouring into yourself from a personal development standpoint? How much are you working on yourself to become the best version? What are you watching? What are you listening to? Are you controlling the algorithm or is the algorithm controlling you? Again? You are what you click.

Brent Orsuga [00:30:36]:
Who are you talking to throughout the day? Are you gravitating towards complainers and whiners? Because again, misery loves company. It's not that hard to find those people? Or are you actually grinding through the noise, producing at a high level and trying to create a community of winners around you? Those are the, like, people I want to hang out with. I want to find out who's producing at a high level, what they're doing. And that's the people I want to kick it with. Anyways, I just wanted to kind of give some high level tips to get your mind cranking on stuff. That again, I live, eat and breathe on a day to day basis. I think there's a lot of average out there. I think there's a lot of mediocrity.

Brent Orsuga [00:31:19]:
And that should, as you look in the mirror, be nothing you want to be aligned with. And you got to remember this too. Even for your own team, you are what you tolerate. I'm going to say that again because this is your culture. You are what you tolerate. If you allow low performance, if you allow bare minimum results, you are speaking to your team. That that is okay. That's who we are.

Brent Orsuga [00:31:47]:
That's our identity. But at the end of the day, it boils down to you, your standards and how you conduct yourself on a day to day basis. So, Ben, that was kind of all I had. If you want to open it up to any questions, I'm here to answer those. But I hope that gave people some mind provoking thoughts of what it takes to win at a high level.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:11]:
Awesome. So we do have a few questions. Here's one from Kara. Do you believe you can be highly successful if your niche is by position, but not niche by industry? For example, I'm in the creative and marketing role, but I don't niche specifically by an industry. I've thought about niching down for a few key industries as well.

Brent Orsuga [00:32:31]:
100% that is a niche, right? Because now I'm going to niche or market or promote myself as the person. When it comes to creative and marketing roles, I am the go to expert. I am the one. Everything that I brand, promote, market myself. Because now, again, I want to attract those clients in. So absolutely. Like you can be known as the sales hunter, the operations expert. We can go on the marketing mogul, whatever you want to call it.

Brent Orsuga [00:33:01]:
But again, it starts with that self belief that this is who I am, this is what I do. Because that is also going to tie into exactly the framework that I explained earlier. Every time somebody gets on a call with me, they should already know a little bit about me because I've self promoted and branded myself as such. Then when I get on the call with them, I'm going to use the framework, me, us, them, to set the tone of what I do and who I am. Absolutely. You can do that. Awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:30]:
And here's one from a J. Brent. You are a mindset beast and one of the best visualizers I know. Can you talk about how you put yourself in the arena before the game even starts and what your prep looks like?

Brent Orsuga [00:33:41]:
I have a high expectation to win. I expect every call to go the way I want. I expect every client interaction to work in my favor. I don't just wing it and show up. So I'm role playing. I'm visualizing. You know, one of the biggest things I'll do is I'll even go to the conference room at our office and I'll sit by myself and I'll look around the boardroom. Very visual.

Brent Orsuga [00:34:08]:
And I will imagine myself speaking to these people as though there's people there. I'm in a blank room, but I'm playing this movie over in my head. The questions they ask, how I'm engaging with the call, the energy that I'm bringing. So by the time I actually get on the call, I've already played it out. And I'm expecting to win at such a high level. I'm more surprised when things don't go my way than when they do visual. Painting that picture, becoming an actor in the movie works wonders.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:38]:
Awesome. This is from Carol. What's your feed model? Is it engaged? Retained or contingency?

Brent Orsuga [00:34:43]:
100% contingent. I'm gunsling. I gun sling, so it's always been that way. I've been asked, you know, hey, do you go this way? Do you not? There's no right or wrong answer, you know, and my only debate, if you will, internally, on why I didn't go retainer. I like to play loose again. That, for me, works well as more of that talent advisor mindset. Once I take that short money from somebody, I kind of feel like I'm on the hook. And I've seen a lot of recruiters who will take that short money.

Brent Orsuga [00:35:13]:
It doesn't align with them. It's not the right fit. And now they're just showing activity. To show activity, they feel obligated to show four or five profiles. I'd rather play loose, be a talent advisor, have enough options to represent people and put the right people in the right seats. That's kind of been my mindset.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:31]:
This is from Tim. What advice would you give to someone just starting working on narrowing down their.

Brent Orsuga [00:35:36]:
Niche, gravitate towards something that you feel comfortable speaking with that, you feel you can relate to people with that. I can speak that language in. So whether, again, accounting and finance, construction, healthcare, supply chain, whatever it is. You know, my own story. I started MRI not by choice. They put me in construction when I went from construction to supply chain. The reason it worked for me is because it allowed me to be myself. I could kind of be a dude.

Brent Orsuga [00:36:08]:
It was a guys guy industry. I could just talk like I'm talking now, and it would really resonate and relate to people. That worked wonders for me. Now, look, I deal with a lot of sellers. I am a seller. That's a different skill set. If you had me go and try to pitch nurses in healthcare, I don't know that they're going to gravitate towards me. You start putting me up in attorneys in New York, I don't know that they're going to like my jam.

Brent Orsuga [00:36:32]:
So I always wanted to gravitate something where I could be authentic and be myself. Awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:38]:
What do you wish you did at the beginning of your recruiting career? To set yourself apart? And this is from somebody going on year three.

Brent Orsuga [00:36:44]:
Early on, you got to pay your dues. You know, you can't necessarily huff and puff and claim to be the biggest and the baddest right off the bat, because I think we can kind of sense that posing. So, to be honest with you, I think that's a mistake. A lot of people do. They try to claim to be something they're not. The branding that I did early on, to be honest with you, I put my head down and I let the streets do the talking for me before I pop my head up and told you how great I am, I let the streets talk for me. So to set myself apart, I'm going to go produce. I'm going to go produce because now I'm going to have self belief.

Brent Orsuga [00:37:19]:
I'm going to have market experience to share. I'm going to have real life testimonials and everything else. So there's a time and a play place, excuse me, to huff and puff and let everyone know how good you are. But behind the scenes, I'm kind of going and producing first.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:34]:
And this is from Elizabeth. When you first set off on your own, working in your bedroom office, what approach do you use with a first connecting with prospective clients? How did you reach out? How did you speak live with them? And given that you did not have a book of clients, how did you gain trust for them to work with you?

Brent Orsuga [00:37:50]:
Not then I remember. I still kind of take it the same approach today. I made it so hard for them to tell me no, because I told them, look, there is nobody, and I believe this and I still do. There is nobody that is going to work on hard as your stuff as possible. It's contingent. Give me a shot. I know what you're looking for. I know what you want.

Brent Orsuga [00:38:10]:
I reached out proactively to your company. We're on the phone for a reason. Give me a chance to perform. If I don't, I'll own that. But there's nobody that's going to go to sleep without giving it the best shot they can every single day. I made it so hard for them to tell me no, I'm not going to give you a chance. So that's still something that I do today. I said, wow, really? You don't want me working on your stuff.

Brent Orsuga [00:38:35]:
You're going to delegate this internally or to somebody else. Okay, I'll remember that. I'm a better friend than I am a foe. They don't want me poaching from their people. When you create that identity in the marketplace, these people are going to want to sign a contract for you because they should fear you taking their talent.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:52]:
All right, here's one from another one from Jay. Can you talk about how much time and money you put into personal development? I think recruiters are cheap and never invested themselves. And what's the ROI on that investment?

Brent Orsuga [00:39:03]:
There's a difference between cost and investment. Pouring into personal development is an investment. I want to learn from people that are above me, people that have experienced things, gone through things, because I don't want to learn everything the hard, long, expensive way, if I can fast track things. And I'm always just trying to keep my mind sharp and plain at a very, very high level. So the higher the conversations, the higher energy rooms that I'm in, learning from influential people, people that have actually built businesses, not just coaches on Instagram, to tell you what they can do. I want somebody who's actually built something. I think that's why our podcast been related with so many people because I'm still doing this after this. I got four calls back to back to back to candidates or companies.

Brent Orsuga [00:39:48]:
So that's the thing, too, is that you can never over invest in yourself. It's a key word. But look, Jay, too, there's a lot of free information. You can go on YouTube, the podcast. I don't listen to music every single day. I'm pouring into here.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:04]:
That was great. And this is from Renee. What do you feel about working in a niche that's more of a controversial area, like diversity recruiting. Can this niche be profitable, in your opinion?

Brent Orsuga [00:40:14]:
It can be. But look, you want the real talk. Look at 2024. What do people want? They want producers, they want dogs, they want hustlers. They want people that are going to show up with no drama. There's a time and a place for that, and I think we kind of went through that cycle. I don't think people care if you're green, yellow, black, white, whatever. They want production, that's what the market wants.

Brent Orsuga [00:40:36]:
So as a recruiter, you have to give the market what they want. We don't dictate the rules. They dictate the rules, and we follow accordingly. So I don't know that I would niche myself down to only be that centric on that, because I think you can expose yourself, but I think that you can obviously have, you know, you can narrow the lanes a little bit to provide that to companies. But again, the market kind of dictates the rules that we do.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:01]:
And here's a question from Kevin. If your business has multiple verticals, how do you, as the owner, establish yourself as the expert in one without jeopardizing your credibility in the others?

Brent Orsuga [00:41:10]:
I think that the identity that I would create would just be all around high performance, high value. We bring the best of the best. So I would make it maybe less about the industry and more about the caliber of people and talent that we provide. So if I'm creating a company that has all those various sectors, the identity that I'm promoting and marketing is around the quality and the caliber that I'm going to provide. So everything, again, goes back to what I was saying earlier. Everything is around high performance. Everything is around elite. I want to scare away mediocrity or average companies and candidates.

Brent Orsuga [00:41:46]:
Don't talk to me, talk to somebody else. I think you can do that with that method.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:51]:
And this is a question from Daniel. How long did you wait to hire your first recruiter teammate, and how did you know it was time and did you hire them from your niche?

Brent Orsuga [00:42:00]:
Yeah. So that's a great question. So almost three years. Almost three years, I got this baby off the ground by myself because, two, I feel that I needed to have a proof of concept before I brought someone else into the team. I needed to have clients, I needed to have playbook. I needed to kind of figure stuff out. Out. And then, yes, to answer your question, I found a lot of value in that niche, in finding people that, again, speak the language.

Brent Orsuga [00:42:26]:
I've actually taken people who have worked in supply chain and logistics and then turned them into recruiters and found value there because when they talk to the candidates, they easily relate. I'm one of you. I've sat in your seat. I know what you do. I know the company. You're Athenae. Let me help you get into a better scenario. It's like somebody who used to be a player turning into a sports agent.

Brent Orsuga [00:42:50]:
They can relate a little bit different. So I found massive value in that.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:53]:
That's good. Somebody was asking who Ed Milett is, so if you wanted to share that.

Brent Orsuga [00:42:58]:
And my lead is probably one of the best business coaches, personal development individuals, a free podcast. I do a secondary coaching with him and a gentleman named Andy Frisella called the RT syndicate. But I think everybody, if you don't know Ed Milette, should jump on that train because he does at least two to three podcasts a week that there's so much value that he can provide and I think it resonates and really works within the world we play in.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:21]:
Do you separate biz dev and recruiting or is every single one of your recruiters full desk?

Brent Orsuga [00:43:26]:
They're allowed to be full desk, but they really just have to focus on the candidate side. Because again, I know that my strength, my skill is going to be in business development, especially being as forward and customer facing as I am. From the branding to the content, to speaking on podcasts, speaking on panels or conferences, I've embraced kind of that seat. But here's the thing, too. I always know that everything I do has intention. The question I ask myself, if I go to this conference, if I'm doing this call, is it feeding the machine? Because the machine is pinnacle, the machine is the platform. All these individuals do is they want me to have that seat. They want me to go get the best clients, because again, it makes their job actually easier.

Brent Orsuga [00:44:08]:
You're only as good as the logos you represent. So they want me to be as big and bold and brave as possible to go bring that in. Personally, I still run a full desk because again, a lot of that inbound activity, but a lot of the individuals, I just need them to find me. People all handle the business side, the client side.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:27]:
Awesome. And this is a question from somebody that actually just spent the last 15 years working in the industry and just started their own recruiting agency. How do you balance operations bd efforts on your own?

Brent Orsuga [00:44:39]:
Well, work hard. You know, I think that that's just the easy answer, is that there's not a lot of balance. I think you have to focus on what I'm going to call revenue driving activities as you conduct your day, what is a revenue driving activity is being able to lock in on business development. A revenue driver is being able to step away from that and go into sourcing and candidate calls a revenue driver. Operations, to me is not that hard, whether it be putting people into a CRM. Hopefully then you get so busy you have to send out multiple invoices. Operations is the effect of everything else you're doing. If you don't have clients and you don't have candidates, you don't have to worry about operations.

Brent Orsuga [00:45:24]:
So I just really am very good at time blocking and segmenting myself out. Ben, I'm going to stay here for a second because one of the things I know we talked about on the podcast is I do what I call play offense, not defense. Every morning when I start my day, I'm in control. I'm not opening myself up to the big bad world of email. Hell, I am pushing everything out that I want, all the messages, all the follow ups with candidates, every business development aspect I want to do. That's how I start my day. Then I'll go into your world. How many people are doing that versus logging in and swirling? Everything with me is very intentional.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:06]:
That's great. And for BD, other than referral, like, how are you winning work? Do you recommend cold call, cold email leaked in outreach, or something else done at all?

Brent Orsuga [00:46:15]:
But again, this is where the branding is so important, because if I'm going to send that message, what is somebody going to see? How strong is my online presence? How strong is my profile? Again, we all know what we do with candidates. It's no different than what clients are going to do with you. They're going to creep on your page and they're going to make an assessment within 10 seconds. Is this somebody I want to do a call with? So behind the scenes, I'm making that as dynamic as possible. From my tagline to my banner to the content that I'm pushing out, I want to make it very hard for them to say, no. It all, you have to reverse engineer everything.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:53]:
That is awesome. And I think it looks like we got, like, one more question left and I gotta fund it again. How often do you fire clients who waste your time?

Brent Orsuga [00:47:01]:
Uh, you know, I try. You have to. It's part of the game. Like, no one's, no one's immune to that. The crazy thing about recruiting is I think we've all been in a situation where we think something's gonna be amazing. Oh, my God, this is a ten out of ten. And within three weeks, you're like, oh, my goodness. This is not what I thought.

Brent Orsuga [00:47:18]:
The process is not good. It's just part of the game. I try to do as much due diligence on the front end so I don't have to do that. I would rather tell you no before than no a month in. I want to know about your process, what you consider to be good. Walk me through a day in the life. What kind of people are you hiring? What is a winning profile in your organization? Again, it goes back to exactly what I said. The answers are always in the questions.

Brent Orsuga [00:47:45]:
What questions are you asking? Don't just take a job posting. Throw something over for 20% and assume it's going to be a home run. I want to be a partner with this company. I want to know that they're bought into me as much as I'm bought into them. That's how you separate yourself, and that's the identity you want in the marketplace.

Benjamin Mena [00:48:02]:
And here's a kind of a question about your own personal time. Do you have an assistant that handles, like, a lot of your stuff, like emails and that stuff, or is it just all you?

Brent Orsuga [00:48:10]:
I grind. Go follow me on Instagram, the pinnacle growth advisors. You'll see the grind. Look, I can only speak for myself. This is all I do. I play one sport. I got two little girls. I always say pinnacle is my third baby.

Brent Orsuga [00:48:22]:
This is my thing. This is my sport. This is my life. This is what I do now. Yeah, I am living that four hand lifestyle, but I'm not overwhelmed where I need somebody to fully delegate a lot of stuff. I probably could do better than that, but this is all I know. This is what works for me. I'm just given experience, shares.

Benjamin Mena [00:48:41]:
Awesome, man. I just want to say thank you so much for coming on. Almost all the people that chimed in or listen to your talk are still here for the Q and A's, but, man, make sure to follow Brent on Instagram. Make sure to follow Brent on LinkedIn. Thank you, guys. See you later, Brett, and enjoy Italy.

Brent Orsuga [00:48:59]:
Thanks, everyone. All right, bye.