Building an Authentic Personal Brand in Recruiting with Joel Lalgee

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
Coming up on this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast.

Joel Lalgee [00:00:03]:
You don't know what you don't know. And I've learned all of this in five years. Just like not a lot of people know that you can make money in recruitment, but once someone shows you how to make money from recruitment, you're like, oh, my God, this is a thing. It's the same thing with content creation. Look at the tasks that are in front of you and, like, just figure out which ones you're good at and which ones you're not. And anything you're not good at, pay somebody to do it. And it just took me so long to figure that out.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:28]:
Welcome to the Elite Recruiter podcast, host.

Joel Lalgee [00:00:32]:
Benjamin Menna, where we focus on what.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:35]:
It takes to win in the recruiting game.

Joel Lalgee [00:00:37]:
We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership, and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:46]:
Attention recruiters. Meet people GPT by Juicebox, the AI powered tool revolutionizing talent sourcing. Simply describe your ideal candidate in plain English and let people GPT handle the rest. It creates the search and assesses profiles, saving you time and effort. Trusted by over 400 companies, from boutique firms to Fortune 500 giants, people GPT is transforming recruiting with generative AI. Ready to upgrade your recruitment? Visit juicebox AI and use code Elite 20 for a 20% discount. People GPT smarter sourcing, better hiring I am so excited about this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast. I have a special guest, a returning guest.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:25]:
Let's just say that this guest was on the podcast when I first started out, and it was just like, I don't know what I'm doing with podcasting, and maybe I still don't know what I'm doing. But he took a chance and he said yes. And I am so excited to have Joel, the realest recruiter, coming back. And real quick, we're not going to do a super deep dive on how he got into recruiting. And the crazy story there, I think when Joel was on the podcast, he might have had, like, a total of 10,000 followers back then, and now he's over a million across all the different platforms. And what is it? LinkedIn is now at? 300,000. 200,000, 300,000?

Joel Lalgee [00:02:00]:
Yeah, LinkedIn's like 2240. I'd say it's like, it's probably closer to 800,000, but I guess that's closer to a million, then 10,000 is closer.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:10]:
But one of the things he did is he came on the podcast, it was like, you guys, dude, you need to start posting content. He said it over and over. And over again. And I was just like, sure, I don't want to post content. Yeah, Joel was out there day after day posting some more, posting some more now. Over 800,000 followers. Over 240,000 LinkedIn. And we're going to talk about how content can, like, absolutely change the game.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:32]:
Joel, welcome back. Real quick, between the last time that we sat down and now, what has changed?

Joel Lalgee [00:02:39]:
I think a lot has changed in general and in the world. But specifically for me, the biggest change I've had over the last few years is just going from what am I doing with content? And that kind of being ambiguous, like, am I training people on content? Am I just posting it for myself? To now really understanding what my major line of business is as well as recruitment. So there was a while where I was kind of doing some recruitment, I was doing some training. I've done recruitment and sales, and now I would consider myself a media company and a recruitment company. So generating income, doing both of those things. And then I think last time we talked, I was only on LinkedIn, which if you're only creating content on LinkedIn, it's a great place to be creating content. I love LinkedIn for that. But I've also expanded into other platforms like TikTok and Instagram, which was supposedly dead, and newsletters and job boards and podcasting.

Joel Lalgee [00:03:39]:
So I've kind of grown that content creation into a lot of different areas. And I think bigger things has changed as well, is like, this podcast in particular, the elite Recruiter podcast has completely blown up since I was on their last thing. When I was on air last, I don't know how many people would have even listened to it. But now you're getting thousands from thousands of people. So, yeah, probably both of us listened to it, like, three times over. It's awesome to see, by the way, because my number one, we were talking about this before. One of my big rules with content, or one of my thoughts around content is the people that do the best are the people who just don't give up and just keep on going, keep on having those conversations, which you've done excellently with. You're in, like, multiple three figures of episodes.

Joel Lalgee [00:04:25]:
You built a really big audience as well, and you see the value in that. And so I think that's very, very cool to see, like, both of our journeys in different ways, but now we're, like, coming back together, which is super cool.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:37]:
Yeah, no, always had a ton of respect for you. And like I said, I think the only listeners I had for that episode were probably, like, me seven times and you twice. So super excited how things have changed.

Joel Lalgee [00:04:46]:
That's hilarious.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:47]:
But like, okay, so for recruiters and, you know, they're out there listening, you know, we're taught to create content, build a brand, do that stuff. But can you also make money while recruiting and building your brand from content? Like, how do you even, like, go about doing that?

Joel Lalgee [00:05:02]:
Yeah, look, I think there's lots and lots of ways that you can monetize an audience. There's big ones I think a lot of people are aware of, like, brand sponsorships. So finding people who want to reach your same audience. So if your audience is like software engineers, if you have a large audience of software engineers, there's going to be people that want to reach software engineers. So, like, finding out who those brands are. I think affiliate marketing is something which a lot of people don't understand. But if you have any type of audience, you can make money by simply finding a company that will have you be an affiliate and a partner with them and just doing revenue splits. That has actually worked well.

Joel Lalgee [00:05:41]:
And then now a lot of the platforms, quite a few of them will just pay you for content. And I think YouTube, obviously, we're all familiar with that. They do that with adsense, but Facebook threads, TikTok, they all pay for content as well. So you can, I mean, you can make a decent amount of money just through, like, actual, you know, your actual content and platforms paying it as well. So I would say you could probably get another five to seven income streams with content if you know what you're doing. And I think this is what it always comes down to, right? Like, you don't know what you don't know. And I've learned all of this in five years. Just like, not a lot of people know that you can make money in recruitment, but once someone shows you how to make money from recruitment, you're like, oh, my God, this is a thing.

Joel Lalgee [00:06:25]:
It's the same thing with content creation in my mind.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:28]:
Okay, so when it comes to. We're gonna ask this two different ways when it comes to creating content. Like, what kind of content should you be creating to kind of get a deal like that? And also what kind of content should you be creating to actually get new clients and business development?

Joel Lalgee [00:06:43]:
Yep, great question. So I think if you look in more this, like, whole brand influencer type thing, the first thing you gotta really understand is who is my actual audience? And I think this doesn't happen enough with creating content. I don't think people sit down enough and go, who is my actual audience. And you can check that yourself right now. Like, for example, if you're creating content on LinkedIn, an easy way to check this is who's checking my profile, who's viewed my profile, who's engaging with my post. So go to a post, see who's liking it, and you should start to see a common trend of people. Now, the problem is, if you look and it's like all random people, I'd suggest that you probably haven't got like an actual targeted audience. So if you're looking to go and influence a way, you've got to really be dialed in on like, who that audience is and know it.

Joel Lalgee [00:07:27]:
Because brands are going to ask you, well, who's your audience? Right? And so if you can't answer that, you say, oh, I don't know, it's lots of different people. That's not going to make you seem attractive if you say, yeah, my audience is HR and recruitment. Now you're clear in who your audience is, but it's that same idea with, you know, if you want to get clients, you gotta go, who are my clients? And then what audience would they fall under? So if your clients are engineering managers, then you want to make sure that your audience is geared towards engineering managers. So a lot of times I think what we do is we start to sit down and go, this is the content I want to create and this is the content I think people would like. It happens all the time. Instead of actually looking at, well, what is the content that the people I'm trying to reach, what are they already into? What's the type of content that they like? And so that step of figuring that out is usually what gets out of the window. And it's really easy. Like, just if you're talking to engineering managers, if you're talking to, maybe it's HR managers, because they make the decision, talk to them, ask them about the type of content that they consume, ask them, what are the podcasts I should be listening to, what's the content I should be consuming? And they will tell you, and then you can start to learn and like, literally learn what people care about.

Joel Lalgee [00:08:41]:
I went through this process, but almost by chance, but I don't think you have to do it by chance. And I think you can actually be strategic around it if you're asking the right questions and you're paying attention, and then you start to produce content that that audience actually likes versus just creating content that you think they like and then wondering why no one's engaging, if that makes sense.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:00]:
How often do you see somebody, like, creating content versus, like, what they like versus like, what they've thought about?

Joel Lalgee [00:09:05]:
I would say, like the majority of people I deal with or the majority of people I work with or have consulted with, they are usually not doing the research and not really in the know of, like, what actual content or who the influences are in this basis. Like, if I used to coach recruitment teams on this thing and I'd say, okay, well, what are the new sources that your candidates or clients are paying attention to? And they'd be like, oh, I don't know. I have no idea what new sources or, you know, say, who are the influences within the space? Let's say it's nursing. Who are the nursing influencers? Who are the healthcare influencers? And they typically don't know that. So I'd say most of the time people are not taking that first step. Instead they're literally going, okay, what do you think we could create that people would be interested to? And when you think about it, it's such a simple step and it should be the first step, right? Like, well, what do people already pay attention to? And it actually is there to make it easier. But yeah, people just, for whatever reason, it doesn't click and they don't go, oh, I need to actually figure out what people are engaging with already.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:06]:
A lot of times when a recruiter thinks about making content, it's like the top five resume tips. And I feel like that might have worked like a decade ago, but that doesn't work now. Where should you dial in or should you just be watching what other people are doing?

Joel Lalgee [00:10:18]:
I think that kind of content can be helpful. Funnily enough, I actually think that still has its place in some ways. But I think why not pay attention to what is the news that the people who you're trying to recruit or the people you're trying to work with care about? Like, news is just so untapped. And the news for me is, it's the easiest. And I remember I used to not, I didn't used to mock people, but I used to think when I used to always hear like trainers say, well, you should just be sharing news articles. And I used to think, well, that's never gonna get any likes or anything like that. And there is truth to that. Like if you just sharing content randomly to your network, who cares? It's not going to build your brand, it's not going to generate you a bunch of leads.

Joel Lalgee [00:10:58]:
But if you talk about the news, if you share an article and you put commentary on it that actually does. Bill Brandon, you become a thought leader in your space just by talking about the news. And the great thing with the news is it's always happening. So then you don't have that pressure of, oh, I need to come up with something. So a big question I'm asking a lot of teams, again, is like, where are you getting your news from? Because when you think about, like, recruiters and a lot of the value that we have, people come to us, what's the market like? What's the job market like? Who's hiring, who's being merged? And a lot of these hiring managers don't have the time to even research what's going on in their industry. They're coming to you because you're the expert, especially agency recruiters. Like, you are the expert. You should know what's going on in the industry.

Joel Lalgee [00:11:42]:
But again, a lot of agency recruiters I talk to, where do you get your news from? I don't know, LinkedIn news on the corner, instead of thinking what news is going to impact my clients, what news is going to impact my prospects, and how can I talk about it and bring value to them? And then the other piece that's huge is just talking about problems that, you know, people are facing. So for job seekers, could be fixing resume issues, but for other businesses, you know, that could be a problem with operations, it could be a financial problem, it could be, you know, a problem with finding a skilled salesperson or onboarding a skilled salesperson. You've got to look at what are those common problems people are facing, and then you want to talk about it and bring solutions. And I don't mean pitch why you're a good person to work with. I mean just literally provide valuable information that's interesting to them. Then they start to associate you with that and you become like a thought leader. Right. Somebody who's credible at adding value.

Joel Lalgee [00:12:36]:
And again, I think that's a piece where it takes work. It takes work to get like that, right? Like, it takes work to find news and have a commentary and have an opinion. And that's where content creation is work. But if you are viewed as that credible person, you're much more likely to pick up business in this inbound business that people talk about. Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:55]:
And I've seen, like, you becoming a thought leader in your space becomes a huge revenue producer for many of the guests that we've had on the show. So, yeah, it's a great way to definitely start the journey. Cause a lot of times I think, like, people look at these, like, these influencers or thought leaders in the space, like, how can I get there? And I think my next question is, like, you see a lot of recruiters out there that are almost afraid to build their own brand away from the brand of the company that they're in.

Joel Lalgee [00:13:19]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:20]:
What's your thoughts on, like, building your brand, but also, at the same time, working within a company culture?

Joel Lalgee [00:13:25]:
Yeah. I mean, number one, make sure that you get the guidelines from the company you're at and understand, like, what their openness is. Cause some companies will not want you posting anything outside of what pr or marketing is doing. And if that's the case, there's not much you could do about that. Then you have to weigh up. Like, well, do I want to work at a place like this versus do my own thing or going to a smaller company, for example? So you got to look at, like, the company you're in. What are their policies? And then I think it comes back to when you're actually creating the content. If you want to, like, not disassociate yourself with the brand, then you got to talk about the company.

Joel Lalgee [00:13:59]:
Right? You got to talk about company events you're doing networking events. You're doing talk about initiatives your company's doing, talk about awards they're winning. And so it kind of goes into this idea of documenting versus creating, which it's a lot easier to document things that are going on and talk about things that are going on than it is to create something new. So I would say for most recruiters, you're really. You're like an ambassador, and you're documenting what's going on in your company. And so, almost like, the way I think about it is look at what's actually going on in your company. Look at, like, what are candidates going to care about if you're an internal recruiter, if your agency, it's a similar thing. You could talk about wins that you've had for clients.

Joel Lalgee [00:14:40]:
And I get it. Like a lot of agency recruiters, I don't want to tell people what my clients are. You don't even need to tell them specifically who the client is. You can talk about the space that they're in, the size of the company. Right? Like, hey, you know, I just worked with a series e startup and hired 20 go to market people for them. And using my process, this is how it worked. That type of content is perfectly fine, too. And again, I'm a big fan of any company I've worked with while I've been creating content.

Joel Lalgee [00:15:05]:
I've talked about the company because I want it to be a value add to any company I'm with. I want. If I get hired by Google, for example, I would want my personal brand to add value to Google, because then it's like they know, wow, Joel's personal brand is actually adding value to the business. So I see it as a differentiator. You know, if you got a team of ten recruiters and one recruiter's got a really strong personal brand, that's generating business or generating better candidates or just creating more awareness in the marketplace, that's a big value add compared to the nine recruiters that are doing it. So I'm always thinking, like, how can I add value outside of recruitment? And over the last couple years, I think a lot of recruiters, we've had to adjust our thinking. Maybe it's adding value with data or telling stories or creating a new process. I think content creation, absolutely.

Joel Lalgee [00:15:52]:
A way that recruiters can add value to any business they're in.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:55]:
I love that. It's just so often I don't see people making that initial jump or even they make the jump or they aren't continuing it. They do three or four posts and then it's back to everything, back to normal. I didn't see the benefit in this.

Joel Lalgee [00:16:10]:
And I think that's like anything in life is just like that. I had so many life lessons from just being a content creator and now starting a business and so many of these things. I started my latest business or the business I'm in right now. I actually started three years ago and then quit after like two months because I freaked out but kept the business open. And at that time it was training companies and providing consulting. And now, you know, I look at it, it's two or three years on, I'm now, you know, I haven't had an employer for a year and a half, so I've been like, solo employed. And it's almost like you learn to do better business, like you get better at doing business. And so it's like if you think that you're going to start your own thing and in a month you're going to be a millionaire, you know that maybe that happens.

Joel Lalgee [00:16:57]:
It doesn't happen a lot though, right? But a year and a half in, you could be generating seven figures of revenue. Like, that's possibility definitely happens, but it's like, it might take months to get up to that point. It's the same idea with content, same idea with cold calling. You would never tell somebody after a week of doing cold calling. Yeah, it doesn't work. Just quit. You go, no, give it a couple months, right? You can't just base it off like four cold calls and no one picked up. Well, I guess the whole thing's useless.

Joel Lalgee [00:17:28]:
It's the same with content. I think people want instant hits because it feels instant because you're like putting something out there. But with building an audience, whether it's podcast, social media content, a blog, it's always going to take time. I think once you realize that, and unfortunately, it's like, you don't realize that until you've been consistent for a while. But once you start to realize that, that really helps. Like, for me, I started a new podcast maybe four months ago. I rebranded my podcast and it's like it's building momentum, you know, and because I know historically how content works, I didn't expect my podcast to have, you know, a thousand downloads the first episode, but now it's getting to that point, right? And so then I go, okay, well, if I can get 1000 downloads per episode now I can get 10,000 and it's going to compound, right? And then go, if I do this for three years, maybe I can get 5000 or 10,000 per episode, right. You know, and I think a lot of people, we understand it when it comes to cold calling or emails.

Joel Lalgee [00:18:23]:
We understand the compound effect when it comes to money. But with content, it's like people just like, like you said, it's like four posts. Oh, it didn't work. It's not for me. Okay. What were you expecting?

Benjamin Mena [00:18:36]:
You were just talking about like, you know, when you first started, you kind of freaked out after two months and went back and got a job.

Joel Lalgee [00:18:42]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:42]:
Like for you, what were some of the hardest lessons that you've learned along this journey of self employment?

Joel Lalgee [00:18:48]:
Yeah, I think, like, just knowing your own strengths and then knowing what you're not good at is huge. And I think one of the things that I'd hear all the time because I think there's a lot more content out there now for like solopreneurs. But I would just hear all the time, like, look at the tasks that are in front of you and like, just figure out which ones you're good at and which ones you're not and anything you're not good at, pay somebody to do it. And it just took me so long to figure that out. Like, I can pay somebody to do something that I'm not good at because it will take them less time, number one, and I can do something else that actually generates revenue and basically use that income to offset the expense of paying somebody to do something. So I think that is huge. And then for me it was a big challenge in just knowing like, what the offer is. Anyone who's followed me will know.

Joel Lalgee [00:19:38]:
I've tried training, you know, I put together a whole training course, tried digital courses, I tried lots of different things. And it took me, it actually took me a while. That was a hard thing to figure out. Like what exactly do I offer? How am I going to offer it and how am I going to sell it? And then looking at it and going, okay, some of these things can scale, some of them can't. And then stepping back and go, well, what do I want? Do I want to just be like a lifestyle business owner where I can spend lots of time with my kids, still generate income, but I'm not at this point that interested in scaling a huge company. I'm making an exit in the next five years. Like I'm not in that season of life. So I think sitting down and going, what do I actually want? And once I figured those kind of pieces out and going, okay, I'm good at this, I'm not good at that, so I'll outsource it.

Joel Lalgee [00:20:24]:
This is what I'm offering. And, you know, and this is actually my vision for the business on what I want to do. Once I had those three things, then it's a lot easier to operate in the ins and outs, you know, in each day because like as a business owner, each day, no one's telling you what to do. There's no like, hey boss, what do I do? It's like you have to figure out what's the revenue generators and then you have to be okay and be patient and realize that like, you know, what I do in the next 2 hours probably isn't going to impact the whole business. But what I do for 2 hours every day for the next six months, that will. So it's having that balance as well.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:00]:
Like those days where things are hard. How do you keep yourself accountable?

Joel Lalgee [00:21:03]:
I think for me, like the really, really hard days, I usually try and get away from work. So I try and do something else actually for a while in the wintertime because I'm in Wisconsin, it snows here. So I would go to the gym and I'd just go do something for 2 hours that I knew was productive that would make me feel like I'm being productive for the day. And so I just step away. So anytime really frustrated and I feel like I'm not doing anything, I just go and do something else. And then I think there's just times where, like, stepping away has been huge, and then equally, there's just times where, like, I think you just have to suck it up and you just have to do things you don't want to do. And again, this is hard, right? Cause it's like, when you own your own business, there are things that you just don't want to do. And, like, even for content creation, like, I love creating content.

Joel Lalgee [00:21:50]:
I really do. But sometimes I might have, like, a client video that's due, and, you know, it's just like, I just got to bite the bullet and do it and not procrastinate. And so there's, like, those moments as well where I think sometimes it's just going, okay, I'm going to put it on my calendar. And if this is the only thing I do today, I'm okay. And I think having that mindset with, like, business development, the same thing. There was a time where I just. I would spend an hour every single day, and it was just pure bd. And it was like, when I'd started training program, and I was like, I need to get sales.

Joel Lalgee [00:22:25]:
I just spent an hour each day, first thing in the day. Sales, sales, sales. I think putting it in a calendar is huge. And being patient. I think patience is something which people don't talk about a lot when it comes to the solopreneur stuff or the business stuff, but it's like, patience is huge. And being okay with being patient and waiting and understanding what that sales cycle looks like as well. What about you? What are some of the steps that you do?

Benjamin Mena [00:22:49]:
Running is one of my go tos. When it's not 115 degrees outside during the day at launch, I'll go do a run just as a reset for my day.

Joel Lalgee [00:22:58]:
100%.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:58]:
Cool. Want to come back in, take a shower, eat lunch? All right. Now it's a brand new day again.

Joel Lalgee [00:23:03]:
Love that. I love that. Do you find that you get more you work done in the morning or the afternoon?

Benjamin Mena [00:23:07]:
It's a combination of morning. And I have a little one also. Just like you do or you have multiple little ones.

Joel Lalgee [00:23:13]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:13]:
So it's like, you know, when he goes to daycare now, I crush some work up until about lunchtime, have a little bit of a log in the afternoon, and then once he's back in bed at 07:00, I'm typically working again.

Joel Lalgee [00:23:25]:
Yeah, yeah. And that's the other piece, too, right? Like, figuring out what that workflow is. What that looks like I just had a reset week last week where my wife was out of town with our oldest, and I had the two youngest ones. I took the time off, still did a little bit of content, like when naps were around, but I just took the time off. And I think having those reset points as well and going, okay, maybe I need to reset, and I need to be saying no to more stuff right now than, like, trying to take on something new, because I have that tendency, and that's not always a helpful thing, too. So, like, having a reset and going, no, I'm going to say no to these things, you know, for the next period of time, I'm going to say no to podcasts for the rest of my life. This will be the last one I ever do.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:06]:
Last one ever. I got Joel for the last one. And no, he really has his own podcast, and he'll be on more. So, like, you jumped on your own.

Joel Lalgee [00:24:14]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:15]:
Is there any other lessons that you would love to share about making a pass that first six months or pass that first year?

Joel Lalgee [00:24:20]:
Yeah, I think, and I talk to a lot of people, too, who have started their own recruitment companies, seeing a lot more of that right now. And I have a lot of conversations with people. Usually it's somebody who's been internal for, you know, five to seven years, and they've gotten laid off. That's typically the people who I've seen reaching out right now and going, hey, I want to start my own practice. I want to start up my own business. And again, I think the patience part is huge. And I think you had someone on the show a couple weeks ago, or, I don't know when this will air, but you had someone on the show fairly recently who, you know, they made more than a million in revenue since starting their own business, but they didn't make anything for six months. And I think the value in understanding that is, I think it's really easy in that first six months to feel, like, defeated and feel like you don't know what's going on.

Joel Lalgee [00:25:14]:
Nothing's working, but you're learning a lot. And there's just certain lessons that I think you get when you're doing something for yourself that some people pick on up right away and maybe are more, like, naturally geared towards those lessons, and rejection is just flying off them, and they're quick to adapt in situations, but not everyone's like that. And so I think that first six months is just realizing, like, you're just learning a lot, and you're learning a lot of really valuable skills. You're learning about sales maybe for the first time, because even if you're agency, like, yes, you're in sales, but, you know, if you're working for, like, Robert half or you're working for round style or you're working for manpower, you know, those brands are established. So, yes, you're selling, but there's something different when you're selling yourself, when you're selling this brand you created. And so you're having to, like, market yourself, having to sell. So you're really learning, in my mind, sales in a completely different lens. And then you also have to added pressure, which we all know, even if you have savings, even if you're financially set, you just have that period of time where it's like you might just be covering the bills, right? But then the sales matter more because you don't have a base.

Joel Lalgee [00:26:21]:
It's really commission only. So I think that first six months, understanding that, like, you're just learning a lot and having that learning be a positive thing, I think is essential for that success and just not giving up. Love that.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:35]:
Well, I think I got a few more questions before we jump over the quick fire questions, but I know we're running a little short on time when it comes down to, you know, this is out of curiosity. I feel like there's many, many recruiters that say that they're real. Yeah, can we talk about that real quick?

Joel Lalgee [00:26:48]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, of course.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:50]:
You know, no shade at anybody else. But, like, you are the realest recruiter. I feel like you were, like, one of the first ones out there that branded the real name.

Joel Lalgee [00:26:57]:
Yeah, yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:59]:
Starting out the content journey, like, how do they go create their own, like, kind of like their brandish name when.

Joel Lalgee [00:27:04]:
It comes down to this, I've been, like, the realist recruiter for, like, a year and a half, and I've been creating content for five years. So the background on even the name was, I had been on TikTok for years, and maybe two years ago, my sister actually reached out to me and was like, I'm going viral on TikTok. I'm like, oh, TikTok. Something must have changed on that platform. And I started checking out, and I think my name before that was like something like old dad guy or something stupid, but you could change the name. So. And I looked at the content. It was a lot of, like, really young people, which nothing against young people, but it was all young career coaches just really putting out terrible advice.

Joel Lalgee [00:27:41]:
And there wasn't really any recruiters really doing that. I think there was maybe one or two notable recruiters that had big followings. One is Emily the recruiter intuit. If you know Emily. I don't know personally, but she was doing some stuff, and then I. There was, like, some other, like, career coaches and stuff, and I was just like, man, this content is just, to me, it's just a lot of hacks and gimmicks and, like, just, you know, send this DM to hire manager and you'll guarantee a response. I'm like, what? What? And so that's when, like, I chose the handle the realist recruiter. And then as I started kind of getting more into content full time and that being a part of the business, my wife then was like, you should, you know, like, we should do something with, like, the realist recruiter.

Joel Lalgee [00:28:20]:
Like, you need a neon light. And so, you know, I got this neon light. Yeah, right here. And I got my camera set up, and I got everything set up. But that was years into the journey. And I think where for me, the realest part, like, you know, on Twitter, my handle is the human headhunter. One thing that I've always just tried to put in my content is authenticity. And again, that is a buzzword all the time, right? But when I look at what authentic means, it means when I go and meet you at Recfest, it's like you're gonna meet the same person.

Joel Lalgee [00:28:52]:
And this has become this, like, superpower thing for me where, like, I'll go to conferences and because I have hours, hundreds of hours, thousands of hours of videos and live streams and all this sort of stuff, you know, when people meet me, they're like, oh, I already know you, or I feel like I know you. And that was something which I really wanted as part of my content. And so it was like, almost a creation of me as a content creator. And then as a recruiter, one of the biggest things that people complain about is, like, the transparency and all that. Recruiter ghosted me, or they lied to me, right? Or they sold me on something that wasn't true. I really wanted to combat that, too, with the name. Just be like, look with me. Like, you might not get the job, but at least I'm going to tell you you didn't get the job.

Joel Lalgee [00:29:35]:
Or if you come to me and your resume sucks or, you know, you've got something terrible going on, I'm just going to let you know right away what that is. And when I was recruiting heavily, and that was 100% of what I did, you know, I would lose deals sometimes because I would just be honest with people. And if it meant me evaluating the two opportunities they had, and one of them was with me and one of them was with someone else, if we did the evaluation and it made sense for the other position, then guess what? I was that recruiter that was saying, hey, look, obviously I have an affinity and a bias towards this because it's my client, but at the end of the day, it actually sounds like this might be a better move. And I think that's the type of recruiter I wanted to be, right? Like, I want to be someone who isn't just trying to swindle people into, like, a deal quickly, because I don't think that actually helps in the long run. But what I will say to that is most of recruiters that I meet with or work with or know, they're all the realest recruiter, you know, they're all like, I don't run into that many recruiters that at least I've worked with professionally that aren't authentic, that aren't transparent. And somebody's actually surprised me when I see a lot of the bashing that goes on, on LinkedIn with recruiters, because I'm like, I've worked with hundreds of recruiters, I've worked at multiple firms, I've worked at lots of individual recruiters, and I haven't run into too many that aren't authentic and transparent and real people. And so I like to think, like, hey, I'm representing all of us real recruiters and not the people who are out there just scamming people and just treating people like garbage. So we're all the realest recruiter.

Joel Lalgee [00:31:05]:
That's my long way of saying that.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:06]:
I absolutely love that. Well, jumping over to the quickfire questions gonna kind of jump down the list just a little short on time. But I kind of want to ask you, like, what's your favorite tech tool as a recruiter?

Joel Lalgee [00:31:17]:
Man, I gotta go with Metaview on this one. I do work with Metaview, but I love the technology around collecting transcriptions, getting summaries for, like, any conversation you have. So if it's a sales call that I'm on, if it's an intake call that I'm on, candidate call obviously is really helpful. But, you know, when I was recruiting heavily and that was all I was doing, I would have killed for that tool, because it just, like, my strong point is always connecting with people in the rapport building. My weak point, without a doubt, all the time, is organization and notes. Like, I'm just a bad note taker. So I love that. I love that.

Joel Lalgee [00:31:54]:
That's definitely my favorite. Hence where I'm wearing a sweatshirt. So mad. If you just go free branding.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:00]:
You know, you've been a recruiter, you've seen the insiders of recruiting. You started your own company, you kind of like, pulled back for a little bit.

Joel Lalgee [00:32:06]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:07]:
You've had a ton of success on content creation. A ton of success recruiting, yeah. Like, when it comes to your own personal, like, drivers, like, what do you think has been a big driver for your personal success?

Joel Lalgee [00:32:18]:
My biggest thing was just I always want to do something that I enjoy and I like that paid well. And I think I just have been really driven to find that and being driven to just do it my own way as well. Like, I just realized that about myself. This is why I don't work for a company. I've worked for some great companies, like amazing companies. Last company I was with, full time Hirewell, amazing recruitment agency. Like smart, savvy. But it was almost like I just had something in me where I'm like, man, I want to do it my own way.

Joel Lalgee [00:32:49]:
And on top of that, I want to do something that I enjoy and that can give me some of my time back. So it's like finding something I enjoy, finding something that gives me my time back and finding something that made money. It was like, at all costs, I've got to figure out how to do that. And when content came in, I was like, I just love content. So now I have to marry content and recruitment and business ownership. How can I marry them all together and not be working 60 to 80 hours a week? Which, hey, for a lot of business owners, like, you have to do that. And so I've luckily found an, you know, had, there definitely have been weeks where I have had to work that amount, but that's not how much I'm working right now. But it's because a foundation has been built where I've got other things working for me that are working more than 60, 80 hours a week.

Joel Lalgee [00:33:35]:
They're working 24 hours a day. And, you know, that's content, right? Content's always working for you. So it's like, I'm big on working and trying to work smarter, figure out, are there better ways to do something that don't just require manual time.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:48]:
Awesome. Now, can I ask this question like, two ways? The first is going to be like when you first started recruiting, and then the second is going to be like, with your own business, but with everything that you've learned now, like, recruiting the ins and outs, the ups and downs that you've had and the struggles. If you can go back in time and have a conversation with yourself at the very beginning of your recruiting career, what advice would you give yourself?

Joel Lalgee [00:34:08]:
Wow, that's a. That's a huge one. Yeah, I think. I think the patience part would have been really helpful because I jumped into recruitment. I was working for an RPO at the time, and the RPO model is basically at least the way they had it set up was you'd work on one project or four projects, and we'd bill for our time versus the results. And so I think if I could go back time to want to be being a lot more patient with the recruitment journey as a whole. And number two, I would have probably tell myself pretty early on, I would have probably introduced more of, like, a contingent or retained model and, like, idea of thinking earlier on, I spent a lot, a lot of time in this model, which, it's great for clients and it's actually great for business owners, but for the individual recruiter, it wasn't great. So I think that would be, that would be the biggest thing.

Joel Lalgee [00:34:58]:
And then the second thing would have been, like, right from the get go to have been creating content. Like, took me five years in the recruitment before I started doing that. I would have done that way earlier as well.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:08]:
And same question, but take it like, looking at your own business.

Joel Lalgee [00:35:12]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:14]:
If you can go back in time and have a conversation with yourself that first or second month after the restart, like, what would you tell yourself?

Joel Lalgee [00:35:21]:
Yeah, I think even just before I started the business, I think I would have loved to have gone to, like, three months before I started the business and just had a better plan. And then again, it's this patience thing. I know I talked a lot about this patience, but I would just tell myself, like, hey, you got to be patient with this. You can get to where you're going, but you have to be patient. You're gonna have to find mentors, find people who you trust, that you can have conversations with as well, because it just get kind of lonely. But I think that patience and mentoring piece is huge.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:50]:
So patience is like the key that I think a lot of people just really don't think about when they skip over. It's like, oh, yeah, it worked for them. It worked for them. But, yeah, it's something that you really just have to dial into for the people listening. If they're not already following you, how do they go about doing that?

Joel Lalgee [00:36:09]:
Yeah, I would just go if you go to www.thereealistrecruiter.com, you can find all my socials on there, and it's got my podcast on there as well. So that's just a go to place. And then depending on what type of content you like, if you like YouTube, you like TikTok, you like Instagram, you just pick the places you want to follow me. I'm tapped out in the LinkedIn connections, but if you send me a connection request, you're like, hey, I heard you on the podcast. That actually does help. I still have some room to accept people, but, yeah, I would just go follow along for that journey. And then, yeah, I try and do a lot of live shows as well on Instagram and TikTok. So if you've got questions for me, just go to one of those live shows.

Joel Lalgee [00:36:47]:
Always happy to answer any questions.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:49]:
Before I let you go, is there anything else that you want to share with the listeners?

Joel Lalgee [00:36:52]:
Yeah, look, if you are, particularly if you're a content creator already and you are seriously thinking about, like, different ways to monetize, I offer a. It's like a four week cohort. I limited to ten people, but each month I run a cohort and basically just run through, you know, how to build an audience or how to start thinking about building an audience, how to reach out to brands, and how to market yourself so you can produce revenue. And really, if you've been creating content for six months, there will be a way to monetize it. But basically just teaching people what I've learned over the last two to three years. So if you're interested in that, if you go to the website and you just put the contact us form and you just say, cohort in there, we could get you into that. But I definitely look at that, particularly if you've been spending time in an audience and you're like, where do I go? What's the next step? And I've set it up to where it's really, really affordable for anybody. So if that's something you're interested in, just let me know.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:43]:
Well, Joel, I just want to say thank you so much for coming back on, like, talking about the craziness from, like, episode six to, like, I'm sure this would be, like, episode in the, like, the 170 range.

Joel Lalgee [00:37:54]:
Just like, the journey to get Mandy. You killed it.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:57]:
I'm proud of you too, man. I've just been like you. I did not listen to your advice, and I've watched you just, like, crush you with the content and crush it with the growth. And, yeah, I've told many people, like, over the years, like, I should have listened Joel.

Joel Lalgee [00:38:10]:
Now, well, look, and this is the thing, too. It's like the audience and, like, knowing what the value is that you bring, obviously bringing tons of value with the podcast. My mindset, too is like, you know, it's, it's. You're only as valuable, really is like your last podcast episode or you're really only as valuable as, like your last post. Consistency is such a big thing where it's like, even where you are right now, it's like taking the content that you have, putting it out there, that's huge as well. To me, it's a lot about quality, and it's like, equality and listenership is huge. You've dialed it in, right? Like, there's probably no one who's not a recruiter listening to this. And that's because you've been specific with your audience, which is a smart way to go.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:48]:
Thank you. And for the listeners, I want you guys to keep on crushing it, take some advice from Joel, start making some content, and I want 2024 to be your best year yet. Thank you, guys.

Joel Lalgee [00:38:57]:
See you guys.