$885K in One Year: How Katherine Jerald Turned LinkedIn DMs into $200K Clients & Crushed Recruiting

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
Coming up on this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast, we're all going to.

Katherine Jerald [00:00:03]:
Spend at least 40 hours a day. Most of us spend more working. If it's the same amount of hours, like why wouldn't you want to crush it? I don't understand people that don't have that kind of hustle.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:17]:
Okay, so I want to know about this. This 261k DM.

Katherine Jerald [00:00:22]:
Yes. Welcome to the Elite Recruiter Podcast with your host Benjamin Mena where we focus.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:30]:
On what it takes to in the recruiting game.

Katherine Jerald [00:00:33]:
We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:42]:
This episode is brought to you by Remote Assistants. The go to partner for recruiters who are done wasting time on operations, sourcing or marketing. Their remote assistants are pre vetted and fully trained for an entire four months. We're talking sourcing, candidate, follow up, backend, automation, marketing support, all the things that pull you away from actually growing your business. So if you're serious about scaling your agency and want to buy back your time with real plug and play talent, go to WW RemoteAssistance AI and get matched in under 48 hours. I'm excited about this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast because here's the thing. You can rebrand your destiny. No matter where you're at, no matter the things that you've done, you can draw a line in the sand and rebrand and choose the direction that you want to go.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:31]:
We're going to talk about that, but we're also going to talk about how our guests pulled in 885k her first year. We're going to talk about a $261,000 direct message. So we got a lot to cover and of course one of my favorites, we get to chat about the Govcon space. So I am so excited about Katherine being on the podcast. So welcome.

Katherine Jerald [00:01:52]:
What an intro. Thanks Ben. I've been dying to do this.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:55]:
I've actually been looking forward to this conversation for a long time. So super excited. So, but before we start doing a deep dive on everything, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Katherine Jerald [00:02:03]:
So my first day in a recruiting office was when I was 12. I got an early start. My father had opened a recruiting franchise, FPC and at 6am he knocked on my door, was like, hey sweetheart, it's take your daughter to work day. I was like dad, that was six months ago. He's like, no, it's today. And so that's how I got my start recruiting. I do aerosat and defense. Love growing mid market companies and Have a five person team and am learning how to scale and love your show for all of the tips it gives.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:43]:
Oh, definitely excited to have you be here. So excited to share. And I know you kind of, like highlighted that your first day as a recruiter in a recruiting chair in a recruiting office was at the age of 12. What happened next?

Katherine Jerald [00:02:55]:
Well, I was money motivated at the age of 12. And it's so weird because I'm doing the exact same experiment with my daughter right now because I'm the same age my father was when he started the firm. And she's the same age. She's 14 now, so she's had a couple years in my office now. But you start out, start the kids out setting up computer projects. Yesterday she was assembling a printer stand. Usually it starts out with boxes and cleaning and stuff. And then you get into candidate screens, faxing resumes.

Katherine Jerald [00:03:29]:
And the lease I negotiated for my father's office when I was 17 is still the same building he leases. Same office space today. Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:41]:
Wow. Okay. So did your dad, like, start? Was he a recruiter before that, or he bought a franchise.

Katherine Jerald [00:03:46]:
And just no retrospect. I have so much admiration for the risk that must have taken because he. Okay, so he was VP of a bunch of paper companies. We moved around. I was born in Great Falls, Montana, which is not a desirable part of Montana. Everybody's like, oh, it's so romantic, so beautiful. Not Great Falls. I'm sorry if you were born there.

Katherine Jerald [00:04:12]:
So we lived in all these paper towns, you know, the Roma of Tacoma. And it was stinky and dirty and they didn't really have filters. And you're always moving. So as a paper exec and in bd, we know if you don't make your numbers, you get fired. So dad was a hustler, but he got fired a few times and he's like, you know, I've always liked the finding a job process, and I don't really think we should move to Atlanta as a family right now. So that's what prompted him. Never done recruiting, ever hustled and, you know, built an amazing business. So he was the king of jam.

Katherine Jerald [00:04:52]:
That was what he recruited in. Yeah, still does.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:55]:
That is awesome. Okay, so, you know, fast forward, you know, recruiting chair. You're making candidate screens late at night or during the day. As almost as a teenager. Did you ever think about joining your dad's firm? No.

Katherine Jerald [00:05:06]:
That I went to specific specifically with the mission of I am not going to work for my father anything. But being a head hunter was the goal.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:16]:
And then what changed? What brought you back?

Katherine Jerald [00:05:18]:
Probably a lack of real planning. So right after undergrad and I didn't know what I wanted to do. So I majored in business, which I highly recommend for everybody that does not know what they want to do. And then I got a job teaching English in France. The France part was cool, but the teaching part. I realized the world would be a better place if I did not do that. So I came back, I was engaged, I was broke and I had no place to live due to the lack of planning. And so my father was like, well, how about recruiting? And I said, okay, I'll give it a shot.

Katherine Jerald [00:05:56]:
And the thing is we make a lot of money if you're good. And so at 23 years old, I came back broke in the first 12 months, you know, I think I billed 3:33 back and this was what, 20 years ago. So it was good money. I was making way more than my friends. My fiance at the time who was in law school was like, oh, that's a pretty good gig, sweetheart. So it was kind of, you know, too much freedom, too much money early in my career to really, you know, not think strongly about.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:28]:
And did you stay working with him the whole time or did you shift out to like kind of like on your own or working for somebody else?

Katherine Jerald [00:06:36]:
So I did after a couple years be like, let's try something else. So I worked a bunch of really kind of low paying jobs, you know, relative to recruiting. I was the head of a hospital foundation, led of chamber of commerce and then came back into the fold about nine years ago, but I lived five hours away. So I came back as a remote employee and that's when I really got into aerospace and fats.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:04]:
Awesome. And the govcon industry. Did you choose it or did it choose you?

Katherine Jerald [00:07:09]:
It chose me. I had an awesome client that was in that space and it was a PE backed firm, they were building out a team, they were getting ready to sell. So I was able to leverage that relationship heavily in Huntsville, which is a defense town, and realized I really liked it. I really liked the space and defense world and it can be a great place to be when recruiting across the whole. Certain segments have had, you know, big tumultuous times. Defense is somewhat protected for, you know, in terms of recession proof stuff. So it doesn't follow the same patterns necessarily. Although a lot of them can be politically related as some of the other industries, which can be a good place to be sometimes.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:57]:
That's always one of the joys when everyone's talking about like the craziness in tech or craziest there. It's like govcon's still there.

Katherine Jerald [00:08:03]:
I know you feel kind of bad when you're in a room of recruiters and everybody's like, who's down? And everybody's hand goes up because biotech and you know, VC related and software tech is down and you're like, I'm up. You know, barely raising your hand.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:18]:
Okay, let's kind of walk you a little more towards the story of rebranding your life. But before we get there, you told me offline that your dad actually wanted you to buy the business.

Katherine Jerald [00:08:28]:
Well, who wouldn't? I mean, I would love for my daughter to buy my business, but I did not do that.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:34]:
Did you want to chart your own path? Like, why did you decide to like, you know, got this family business here, got everything rock and rolling, right?

Katherine Jerald [00:08:41]:
That's a natural production.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:41]:
You always want to go.

Katherine Jerald [00:08:44]:
So two things happened. One is, I'd mentioned he's the king of paper. So his business really focused around that segment and I didn't have an interest in that segment. I had worked some searches but really had crafted my niche in a different space. And secondly, I was working for his firm, but I was five hours away. And from a, you know, Northwestern standpoint, that's not actually that far. So I was in the office still. I.

Katherine Jerald [00:09:15]:
But I went through this big ugly divorce, one of those like very long ones. And I couldn't move back to my hometown where the office was ever with my children. So it just became very apparent that that was not going to be a viable option given both those two segments. So it was time to rethink that plan of, you know, stepping into that office leadership role.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:43]:
So, you know, went through a pretty hard situation with your family life, you know, realizing that you couldn't make a move. What made you sit down and be like, okay, I need to go start my own firm. I need to go sit there and go out on my own. I need to go make this jump.

Katherine Jerald [00:09:58]:
So the town that I live in is actually pretty much where Northern Exposure was filmed. We're talking like population 12, right? And my father sounds like a 42 year old, but he just turned 72.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:17]:
Well, good for him.

Katherine Jerald [00:10:18]:
Kicks Kale. Yeah, no, we partner. He is UPS candidate delivery side. Amazing. But given those two things in that if I am going to be in this town with my children, you know, I gotta make my own job because you know, that ship regarding forestry, which is pretty much the only jobs around that's not for me. So to be able to support my family. And also because, you know, his business is not going to live forever in the way that we know it. Those two things became apparent that I was going to need a job and I should probably make it myself.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:55]:
So you don't want to sit there and cut paper or cut wood.

Katherine Jerald [00:10:57]:
You know, logging has had its heyday. It's a tough industry.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:02]:
I mean, you never know. Okay, so you were just pretty much like looking at all the factors that you had in front of you, like, oh crap, like the only option I really have is.

Katherine Jerald [00:11:09]:
So there's the necessity component, but there's also the I want to do it my way. I think we all get there at some point too. You know, particularly if you're a 360 recruiter, you get to a point where the same process gets boring. I mean, opposite of growth is death. And if we're not learning, then what are we doing? So I wanted to do my own thing and make some changes from the way that I learned how to recruit.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:36]:
Well, let's get into that. So your first year from you starting your business, you had an incredible year, 885k and you said it was your first client was a PE back firm and you just kind of jumped in. But like, how'd you start, like, you know, outside that one? Like, how'd you get your first few clients?

Katherine Jerald [00:11:52]:
Well, fortunately, I think a lot of us grew up, you know, with the franchise training MRI being the most, I guess, known one. And I still do it with my recruiters pay for them to go through essentially the equivalent of MRI training. There's confidence in having done it for, you know, five to seven years and had some awesome billions. Like you know how to get clients. It sucks doing it the franchise way because it's old school and you're pounding the calls and you're doing your mpcs. But like good recruiters all know how to do it. It's tough work. So most people don't and they drop out before they get good.

Katherine Jerald [00:12:29]:
But I knew I could make it work because time and again I'd, you know, been had my back up against the wall. My best client left me and something will shake out if you do the volume.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:42]:
And for those that don't know the MRI method and MRI training, like how different is it? Or I mean, did you see it in most other types of training out there?

Katherine Jerald [00:12:53]:
So. And actually the franchise we were with, with fpc, but I would call that pretty similarly. I think it's just there's no smoke and mirrors. It's just kind of the gold standard. But it's around call volume in terms of the cornerstone. And you've got to get comfortable making those calls early on to both gain the skills on the phone, but also just to hit your volumes. And I'm not saying I follow that methodology today, but I want every one of my newest recruiters to know it and know how to do it because it is a great place to start and it's also a great place to go back to if you need new clients, which is what I did.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:35]:
And you've done a good job when it comes to, like, you know, personal branding.

Katherine Jerald [00:13:39]:
Thank you.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:40]:
You know, been watching other sides for probably like a few years now. And you do a good job not just talking about yourself. You do a good job talking about the industry and highlighting things. Where did you learn how to start doing that?

Katherine Jerald [00:13:54]:
Well, I gotta give credit where it's due. Right before I launched El Rey Search, I gave our Pinnacle president, Gail Auduber to call and was like, oh, my God, I'm gonna go to the poor house. I've got, you know, kids to support. What the hell am I thinking? You know, it was that craziness of confidence. She's like, all right, I got a guy. And so her guy, and she was straight out of Jersey, so I think she said that her guy was Mark Whippy. And I joined his coaching program and for the first time ever, I'd done my own LinkedIn post before. I had like outsourced that to a third party.

Katherine Jerald [00:14:30]:
So that was really helpful in terms of getting rolling, in terms of framing the branding the way I wanted to. And then also I've worked with a strong brand designer. She's graphic designer for years, even in previous jobs, so connected with her and she put me on the right path too.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:50]:
Awesome. Because I think that's a good wake up call that a lot of recruiters are not utilizing LinkedIn like they probably should. And you're easily one of the top five examples of, like, people that are actually doing it right.

Katherine Jerald [00:15:01]:
Top five who's got me beat? Ben?

Benjamin Mena [00:15:05]:
Mike Williams.

Katherine Jerald [00:15:06]:
Darn. And I like Mike too. I'll have to give him Helena being nice.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:12]:
Give him hell then. Okay, so I want to know about this, this 261K DM.

Katherine Jerald [00:15:18]:
Yes.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:19]:
Okay. In DM, like a cold, direct message. Like it turned into a 261k deal.

Katherine Jerald [00:15:24]:
And I think all of us, or if you aren't you, should we use LinkedIn for client dev and for Me like email marketing. I tried and I know there's some people that'll swear by it, given the size shop I have. For me, it's just a terrible roi. Like the execs that I'm targeting, everything gets spammed out. They don't read their email. Some other person does like, it just does not work. But LinkedIn is where I've gotten 64% of my new clients since starting the business. And the direct message, you know, that particular one that got me $261,000 in business within shoot, probably seven months.

Katherine Jerald [00:16:09]:
It's not rocket science, it's just, you know, we all use Dripify, you know, the Cadillac of these campaigns. And it's really just about reaching out to the right people and keeping the volume going and being casual. I never do anything really over 40 to 50 words. But also positioning yourself as an equal as opposed to, could I have 15 minutes of your time? It's more like, oh, let's connect. I've got, you know, X, Y, something of value. We should chat. You know, that kind of positioning and continually doing that over time to the right targets is going to yield great results.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:49]:
Did you ever struggle with that positioning with these, like, execs and CEOs?

Katherine Jerald [00:16:53]:
Yes, absolutely. Keep in mind, I've been doing this since I was 12, and it wasn't really until probably 24 months ago in starting my own business that I really started framing things in a way that got the results I wanted to. But you've gotta realize you've got something of value here. And even if you don't believe that, you've got to act as if and create messaging that shows that equality. And I realize it's a lot easier to do if you're very proud of what you W two and they're like, oh, my God, this is more bigger check than I've ever seen before. Then it's kind of like, oh, scoreboard. Because they're telling me how much they make anyways. So it's hard to gain that confidence starting out.

Katherine Jerald [00:17:42]:
And that's just something you've got to get over if you're going to be successful at this. I once had a trainer that said to me, and this was like, early days, you know, don't prospect anybody that makes less money than you. And, you know, he was straight out of New York, but he was dead serious. And at the time I was not making that much money. But it was not bad advice. So particularly, as, you know, you're considering your prospects and where you're at Too. It's, you know, some of the bigger deals are easier as well, but there's a huge confidence piece that you've got to either have or fake to get the results you're going to want to have.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:21]:
I love that. This is, like, you talked and shared about this confidence. You didn't have it the whole time. This is something that really developed about 24 months ago, like, with a combination of you having your own business, you being proud of what you've been building, you being proud of the work that you've done, but it's something that you had to develop.

Katherine Jerald [00:18:38]:
Absolutely. No. I remember the first day back from Early Years recruiting. I called his cfo, and I could feel my heart pounding, like, out of my chest. I was like, oh, my God, I pray it doesn't pick up. Don't pick up, don't pick up. And then, sure enough, he did. And it was just one of those, oh, God.

Katherine Jerald [00:19:03]:
You know, and you get over it. You do that ten times over, and then all of a sudden you start to sound pretty good, because you get over it. But I encourage people. You know, it's. If calling a CXO is terrifying to you, like, you need to do it right now.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:18]:
Jump right in, swallow the frog, or eat the frog. So I know you're also part of the Pinnacle society, and you're around a lot of high billers also has that had an impact on your business?

Katherine Jerald [00:19:28]:
Huge impact. So for those of you, I think most people in our industry do know what Pinnacle is, it's the Heisman Trophy. Like, I grew up around the table hearing big recruiting names, and the Pinnacle was always on my radar, even when I didn't think I wanted to be a headhunter. So when I rejoined the family business, it was an immediate goal. And it takes five years of awesome billings in a row, so you can't even do it. I mean, if you have amazing billings for three years, you gotta show that you're in this industry. So it's like five years of pretty great billings. And then once you go, you pledge.

Katherine Jerald [00:20:12]:
And so it's kind of scary because, you know, you've wanted to do this forever. You qualify, and then on top of that, you gotta be cool. Like, people have to like you to get into. So I was really excited to be invited to pledge. But I remember my very first pledge conference where, you know, doing the rounds and praying to heck that you can get in. It was. It was kind of intimidating. But, yeah.

Katherine Jerald [00:20:41]:
As a result of it, though, to answer your question, after I became a Member, my billing increased immediately by like 38%.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:52]:
Okay, so what do you think had the impact on a huge 30 my individual production?

Katherine Jerald [00:20:58]:
Yeah, because I think I was going from like 6 to 8 in terms of those numbers, too.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:04]:
Was it things that you picked up from around everybody else, or was it just like being around. You were just inspired, I think.

Katherine Jerald [00:21:11]:
And I'm a huge fan of Cildini and the book influence and everything. If I had to point to one thing, it's being around successful people that are really committed to their craft inspires you to do the same.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:27]:
And I know you, we talked about this offline, but you also love the accountability.

Katherine Jerald [00:21:31]:
Yes. So there's so much research that goes into, you know, what motivates us, and we know that even more than money can be that competition, but also the unity of belonging and in Pinnacle, and you can do this in other formats, too. A lot of us volunteer to be in something we call a summit club, which is where we share our numbers and we say, hey, here's my, my goal. And we monthly, you know, add our numbers and metrics. And it's incredibly motivating to see the person above you and give them a call and be like, oh, my God, I'm coming for you. You know, that competition is really fun, but it's also motivated in terms of, oh, you know, I don't want to let them beat me or, oh, my God, I'm going to be on the bottom quartile if I don't do something. So I love that piece of it, too.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:24]:
And you guys don't share just numbers. You guys share metrics, too.

Katherine Jerald [00:22:28]:
You said I share only production numbers. I think there's other ad hoc accountability groups, though, where you can, you know, get as detailed as you want. And again, it's something that's voluntary. It's not like you've got some auditor coming in. But I think a lot of people do that internally within their firm, assuming, you know, they're not a solopreneur, when you can do that with coaching as well on a voluntary basis. But tracking your mechanism metrics was something I'm hugely passionate about because we only get better at what we track.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:01]:
Like, you haven't tracked down that 64% of your business has come from LinkedIn. Like, what else are you also tracking to be able to just back in all those numbers and just, you know, I've seen you before, if somebody asks you a question about your business, you're like, I know this. Or, let me look at this. It's Right there. Like, what are you doing? How's your system set up to be able to track all those details?

Katherine Jerald [00:23:20]:
So I am a finance geek. That's what my MBA originally was in. Nobody's hired me for my MBA skills though. But I do geek out on the whole idea that you can reverse engineer your desk. And what it means in my head is that there's so much we can't control about the deal, the placement, the structure, and we can have a monster deal go sideways and when it goes bad, we're like, oh my God, there's nothing else I could have done. What could I like? We blame it on everybody else and then when it goes great, we're like, I'm the best recruiter ever. You know, we assign it all to ourselves and it's a natural human thing. We all do.

Katherine Jerald [00:24:07]:
But I like the idea because most of us, if we go whatever stretch that is four week stretch without closing a deal or whatever your stretch is eight weeks. You know, I get on the crazy train and I think Danny Cahill, who's amazing, talks about it too. It's like all of a sudden you get on this spiral, it's like, oh, I'm never going to close another deal again. My business is going to stop. Like it's just a stupid crazy train. That's a thought. But I find comfort in knowing that if I backwards engineer the deal after this many first level interviews, I will make a placement. After this many submittals I will have this amount of interviews.

Katherine Jerald [00:24:48]:
And so those are. I don't go too crazy on it. I've still got a small office. But there's five metrics we look at closely every week and then set weekly goals based on those. So I find comfort in.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:02]:
What are those five metrics that you find comfort in?

Katherine Jerald [00:25:04]:
So the one I care the most about is client dev calls completed and I qualify. That is if it's a new hiring manager. So usually like director of ep, cxo. And it doesn't have to be a job intake, but you've gotta be talking about a need that they have and pitching somehow. So those are the ones I'm most excited about. Job intake, obviously that's self explanatory. First level interview. I don't track any after first level because I find it to be superfluous.

Katherine Jerald [00:25:39]:
And some companies will do five interviews and what does that tell me? Like absolutely nothing in terms of my own metrics. So I only intentionally track first levels. And then we do client dev scheduled. So like if you book it, count it there because I want to know how many are falling off between actually completed as well. Obviously placement data too.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:02]:
Awesome. You know, you started off the firm, you're solo person outbuilding it, but you're now a team of five. How have you been able to level or, you know, deal with still being a big biller but also scaling and growing an organization?

Katherine Jerald [00:26:19]:
Yeah, that's been a learning lesson. That's one I'm still trying to figure out. So this year I'm feeling like I'm at a better place. After a good 1822 months of attempting to go from solopreneur to team dynamics, the first thing I did was I brought my sister who is also in a child of the family business and knows it well. I brought her in as my office manager. So she handles all of our accounting but also scheduling and does a lot of the candidate sendouts as well, which is huge for me. And that immediately freed me up to be able to do a lot. But I really hated scheduling.

Katherine Jerald [00:27:06]:
Like it is amazing when you run a 360 desk how much time you spend doing that. And if you can hire somebody else, it's like oh thank God. And then I have a virtual assistant that is amazing. That does our sourcing as well. And then two recruiters. One works heavily on the delivery side and then the other is the360 recruiter.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:29]:
What has been your favorite part about scaling?

Katherine Jerald [00:27:32]:
It's a lot more fun than being a 360 recruiter because you don't have to do the things you're terrible at and hate to do. All of us have things we hate about a360 desk and it's free in that way.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:49]:
Awesome. All right, so you've been scaling your firm. You went from solo to a team of five people and you know, you're sitting there working with their team when it comes to business development and know looking at 2025, what is first of all not working with business development and what is actually working when it comes to bd.

Katherine Jerald [00:28:07]:
So I'll go with what's not working. Email. Like not at all. Not at all. And I realize there's some people that are going to fight with me and be like, oh, we cracked the code, it's so great for me. No, I tried for a solid year. Sent out millions of stinking emails. Top of mind awareness people I know, people I don't don't call them after they opened it.

Katherine Jerald [00:28:29]:
Like didn't get anything. So email is dead. LinkedIn is white hot. I mean I don't think you can do anything without a LinkedIn account. As a recruiter I have really doubled down on in person conferences.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:45]:
Why?

Katherine Jerald [00:28:46]:
That's where my best leads come from. Like for example, and even when you're starting out, my third week of having a new recruiter join us, Heather is amazing. She did her two week training and then I sent her to San Diego to one of the biggest naval conferences and she came back with five solid client dev leads. We just had a job intake yesterday and it's like, how else am I so quickly going to. And she's, she worked it, don't get me wrong. Like she's Aerospace and defense is an old school place. Like she's winning booze. She's like getting invited to all the happy hour, you know, like she put in her time and worked, like really worked it.

Katherine Jerald [00:29:31]:
But I don't know how many freaking phone calls it would take to bring in those kind of numbers on a client dev side if you're three weeks into the job. So it sets you apart and it's yielding us a strong roi.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:46]:
So. And for a recruiter listening to this, because I know like you talk about this, there's a few other recruiters that are talking at conferences or just the magic bullet. I know Scott Love talks about it too. But you picture this, a recruiter sitting there listening to this, like, you know what, I'm going to go to an industry conference and go network, go do whatever. What's the number one piece of advice to actually walk away with something productive rather than just walk around and boost to booth or to happy hour to happy hour. How do you actually make it effective?

Katherine Jerald [00:30:15]:
So you gotta pick the right conference first of all. And all of us have picked bad conferences and walked away and been like, oh my God, that was a waste of time. So the best way to find out what conferences are going to yield better results is to. And actually you can do it as just an excuse for a client connect. Call your clients, find out where they're going, what's on their schedule. And the easiest way to get a new job is to convert a past client into a current client. And then you have somebody to meet at the conference. So right there you've got a couple.

Katherine Jerald [00:30:50]:
And then you've gotta really research your targets as well before you're going in. Like the last thing you wanna do is go into a conference cold because you're just wasting your time. Then some of em can be huge, some of the more intimate ones can be better. Some are incredibly expensive, some are too Big to yield results. So I would say choose wisely, do your research and then develop out your strategy based on who you're really attempting to target. And I had a friend tell me, because I've done it where I've been so worried about not having a good ROI that I've stacked my day way too intensely at the conferences. And it's so easy to wind up just doing candidate intakes all day long at conferences because people want to talk about how you can get them a job. But really you came to, you know, develop your own business.

Katherine Jerald [00:31:39]:
So you've really got to kind of protect your time in certain ways and build out that time schedule that time where you are going to target those boosts and make that happen too.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:51]:
Definitely a smart play. Cause it's one of those things, like, to make it effective, like you're typically flying across the country for something. How do you make sure that you walk away with something out of it and a good roi? So absolutely love that. Is there anything else that's working for business development outside of LinkedIn and conferences?

Katherine Jerald [00:32:09]:
I have a podcast that is a slow burn, but has been the best BD tool for gaining access to both clients and candidates that I want to work with.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:27]:
And I know we talk about podcasts a lot in here, but explain that that email compared to a normal BD email.

Katherine Jerald [00:32:34]:
Oh, an email.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:35]:
I mean, like, oh, I don't email anybody, you know, or Lisa, I should have said that. Eight word email. But text.

Katherine Jerald [00:32:41]:
Text is best.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:43]:
Text is best.

Katherine Jerald [00:32:44]:
But like, please don't email me. You know, I won't respond.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:47]:
But when it comes down to like an invite, do you get much more of a yes than anything else?

Katherine Jerald [00:32:52]:
Yes. So it's amazing how cool of people you can connect with for 40 minutes and the conversations you can have by truly making a thoughtful personal ask. And what you're doing is giving them a marketing tool. And so, I mean, most of us outsource the production piece. We're dropping some solid money on them for them to have an awesome marketing tool for both their brand, their cause, their business. And so most people are kind of foolish not to say yes. And these things have legs on them. They can run for years afterwards, as you know, too.

Katherine Jerald [00:33:33]:
So we're giving something of value before asking. And based on those relationships, then you can build that out even more. Ask for podcast recommendations. You know, ask for that testimonial. You know, it's a whole lot easier than three months later if it's like, hey, I noticed you just had a posting For a BD manager, we just came off that similar search, you know, so your client Dev Direct Ask is part of a much more built out relationship, so it doesn't feel transactional.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:06]:
And why did you end up actually starting that podcast? Because very few recruiters actually do.

Katherine Jerald [00:34:13]:
Again, I kind of have to give credit where it's due. So I was in the Whitby program, and they're too nice to say it, but I was shamed into it.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:22]:
You were shamed into creating a podcast?

Katherine Jerald [00:34:24]:
I think it was truly, Katherine, why don't you have a podcast yet? And I respond very well to direct confrontations such as that. I guess it was kind of passive.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:35]:
Aggressive, and then you would have started a podcast. Awesome. Talking about passive aggressive. And this is something we talked about offline. You actually set yourself up sometimes to hit a goal about, like, the stress of. What was it? Writing somebody a check?

Katherine Jerald [00:34:52]:
Yeah. There's this device that I have employed. I. I would like to think I thought of it myself, but I didn't. So if you really want to make something happen, we know that the pain of losing something is more motivating than the reward of getting something. So, for example, now, this is just embarrassing. It's a personal story. I was going through this divorce, and I got addicted to Nicorette gum.

Katherine Jerald [00:35:22]:
Like, it was like. I was like a squirrel, you know? And it's. Yes. It's not technically supposed to be that bad for you. Right. It's not like vaping or anything. And then it moved into the Zinn, which came out, like, all these awful little paper bits. And you see them now blowing around golf courses.

Katherine Jerald [00:35:36]:
It's embarrassing. Right? It's like a squirrel. And it was awful. And it is really hard to quit that. So I called my mom up and was like, mom, I'm gonna write you a check for $500. Actually, I'm gonna write it to somebody that was really nasty to me during the divorce, and I want you to give that to him. If I don't follow through with quitting here, she's like, all right, it's a lot of money, and I've got my envelope ready, so. So just use my accountability partner, because I did not want that man to receive $500 with my name on it.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:13]:
And you quit.

Katherine Jerald [00:36:14]:
Yes.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:15]:
There we go. Okay, so we've covered a lot. We've covered, like, you having absolutely crushing it your first year, you building out a business, you dealing with a family struggle and challenges, a $261,000 DM before we jump over to The Quick Fire questions, do you have anything else? And I want you to actually talk about the deal that you just closed, like, a day or two ago.

Katherine Jerald [00:36:39]:
It was like an hour ago, Ben.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:41]:
Hour ago.

Katherine Jerald [00:36:43]:
No, I love what you're doing for the community. I get pumped, you know, so often we can get in these lulls when we're, like, by ourselves, not going to conferences, and it's like, oh, my gosh, it feels like Treasury. I'm just coming out of COVID as well. So it was like, ah. And then I listened to one of your podcasts where it was about somebody that had scaled and sold for free 40 million. I'm like, you know, I think I should do that. Let's do that next year. Let's get on this train, call somebody up.

Katherine Jerald [00:37:09]:
So now I'm all fired up to do that. So what you give to our community is incredible. So I want to say thank you.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:15]:
Oh, thank you. And past me, talk about the deal that you just closed an hour ago that you were telling me about.

Katherine Jerald [00:37:21]:
So it is my biggest single, like, in terms of revenue deal that I've closed with my firm, which is huge. And it was one of those where I kind of wrote it off because a totally responsive candidate had gone dark. And it was like, we all know that's the kiss of death, right? And so an hour ago, the recruiter on the deal just called me, was like, yeah, I guess he was camping or something. He signed, like, for the last to know. So, I mean, I don't know who goes camping in D.C. clearly, they're not, you know, from around here. But, yeah, it was shocking and it was great. And again, it's one of those moments where you like to think, oh, my God, I'm the best recruiter ever.

Katherine Jerald [00:38:06]:
I deserve this. But we all know, like, when it comes to the end, there's honestly not a whole lot we can say or do, you know, that's not already built into the process. So it's. It's a grateful milestone. We'll say that.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:21]:
Well, huge congrats on the biggest deal for the firm so far.

Katherine Jerald [00:38:24]:
Thank you.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:25]:
More to come, right?

Katherine Jerald [00:38:26]:
Yes. Bring it on.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:28]:
Well, jumping over to the quick Fire questions, let's just say you're sitting down with a brand new recruiter at a conference. They literally just started recruiting this year, and they can grab you, like, okay, you've had all this success, you know, before you start your firm, after you started your firm, you're absolutely crushing it. What advice would you give to me to have a successful career?

Katherine Jerald [00:38:47]:
Do what you're told why in the beginning, everybody wants the magic bullet. There is none. Most people quit because they don't want to put in the reps. And what we do is really tough. And even talking with other really successful recruiters and we're talking about our kids and do you want them in the business? A lot of people don't like what we do is really tough. And the quicker you can just get through the reps and get that experience, don't try to make it your own. Like, there are so many great people that have told you the playbook. Just follow it.

Katherine Jerald [00:39:29]:
And that's the toughest thing. There's no secret.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:33]:
Love that. The same question, but for somebody that's been in the game two decades, looking at some of the things that you're done and like how you've crushed it, they're like, you know what? I'm going to make this my year. What advice would you give to me to actually make things happen in the recruiting world?

Katherine Jerald [00:39:47]:
Find an accountability group and it can be as loose as you want. Find somebody that's making more money than you and we're all competitive. You know, do what they're doing and call them up and tell them how much you know, your revenue was each year. You need to find some kind of support to continue.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:08]:
Definitely smart on that. Do you have like a book that's had a huge impact on your career?

Katherine Jerald [00:40:14]:
So I get crazy about certain ones. I go on major tangents. Buy back your Time is one of the latest ones that I'm like, you know, Dan Martel's. But the one I have gone so down the rabbit hole with lately and I do about every two years, is Chill Dany's influence, which is the marquee book. It's been around forever. And then he came out with pre suasion after that too. But every time I read that, just chock it full of notes about how it's applicable and it really defines the why behind most of our branding, marketing and sales outreach.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:47]:
Awesome. And looking at tools, I know you mentioned Dripify. Do you have any other favorite tech tools that you absolutely love?

Katherine Jerald [00:40:54]:
If you aren't using some sort of chatgpt project like you are wasting your time. Claude projects is what I am most fired up about and I use on the hour.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:08]:
Love that. Lots of fun there.

Katherine Jerald [00:41:10]:
So like you have to Pay for the $20 version. Like don't try to get the free.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:14]:
One at this point in time. If you're not paying for that, like.

Katherine Jerald [00:41:17]:
Why the results are so awful. Compared to the paid version.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:21]:
Like, why? Why out of all the things you're doing, just spend the 20 bucks anyways? That's a whole other story for another day. I'm hooked on the two or worth the $20. Yeah, I'm hooked on the 200 chat GPT right now too, so.

Katherine Jerald [00:41:34]:
Ooh, I haven't done that one yet.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:36]:
It like opens up a screen and operates.

Katherine Jerald [00:41:40]:
Oh, don't tell me. I get shiny objects. I love them. And then I'm like, this pee pig sucks.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:45]:
It's like a drunk toddler, but I know it's going to get better.

Katherine Jerald [00:41:47]:
Drunk toddler. Okay, we'll let you try that and then you text me when I gotta buy it.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:53]:
Sounds good. In the meantime, like, you've. You've been driven, like, you've been money motivated. You know, your dad owned a recruiting firm. He became an entrepreneur after multiple layoffs. But fast forward, like going into your own story, not everybody has seen the success that you have had. What do you think is the reason why you go out there and win?

Katherine Jerald [00:42:16]:
For me, it's more like, why not? Okay, we're all gonna spend at least 40 hours a day. Most of us spend more working. If it's the same amount of hours, like, why wouldn't you want to crush it? I don't understand people that don't have that kind of hustle. It's just, yes, it's hard work, but it's like, you're going to be here anyways. Let's do it.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:40]:
Fast forward that into like, you know, recruiting is super, super hard. How do you get through those hard days or those hard weeks where you're just like, nothing's fucking clicking.

Katherine Jerald [00:42:50]:
So it's hard when you're not closing deals. It's easy when you're slamming them like, it's the best job in the world. When you just slam a deal, the hard parts and like how to get through that, it's really a trudge on. And that's why I geek out about the analytics. Because, you know, if you do X, even if it sucks and you're on the bottom end of what the numbers say, like, you will achieve Y results. It's not some wacko formula or guessing yes, in a way, we gamble for a living, but like, we know the od. It's really about realizing and I think being grateful for the incredible amount of success we can have from a financial standpoint and weathering the storm, it takes a lot of mental stability.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:40]:
And when you're tracking all this stuff, what is it tracking spreadsheets. Is it within your applicant tracking system?

Katherine Jerald [00:43:46]:
I don't get too carried away on, like, pivot charts and stuff. I've got an awesome admin and I ask her to pull it it from crelate. And I've got a scheduler that cross checks the data and, you know, she makes a nice little chart, and we all look at it once a month. Okay, once a week. And then we have monthly.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:03]:
Awesome. Well, you know, if you could get a chance to go back on your recruiting career and you've learned a lot with scaling, you've learned a lot with your business. You've learned what doesn't work. If you got a chance to sit down with yourself, XYZ months ago, when you started LRA search, and you got to sit there and have a conversation with yourself, what advice would you actually give yourself?

Katherine Jerald [00:44:22]:
Just starting out with you, just starting off your firm? Well, that was only like 20 months ago, so hopefully I'm a lot older and wiser in terms of starting my own firm. I wish I had done it years ago. It's fun. And there's so many. There's not a ton of women that own our own firms outright, like 100% owners. And I would love to change that, but it's a monstrous risk. Yes, I get that. But it's also like, why wouldn't we?

Benjamin Mena [00:44:54]:
So you'd love to see more women make the jump.

Katherine Jerald [00:44:56]:
I would. Wouldn't you?

Benjamin Mena [00:44:59]:
I think some of the best stories, the ones that are actually crushing it somehow handle way more than guys can, are the women.

Katherine Jerald [00:45:06]:
Right. And I mean, part of it's, you know, I'm sitting on a small town, but to do it without a hundred percent your own. Like, I know a ton of men that own their firms outright, but to be like, the controlling interest, it's a different game. I mean, it's kind of fun.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:25]:
Awesome. Well, you know, with the success you've had, I'm sure you have recruiters, like, reaching out to you, kind of like asking what you're doing, like, how does this work? What do you do here? Like, what are you doing for business development? Is there a question that you wish they would actually ask you compared to the questions that you normally get?

Katherine Jerald [00:45:42]:
Well, the number one question you hit head on is, you know, what can I do when everybody's looking for a magic bullet? It does not exist. So, like, shut up and just pick up the phone would be the first piece of advice. But the question that I think more people should ask, though, and there's gonna Be old school people that will fight with me on this, though. Why are the phone metrics so important to you? And I've come around on this. We grew up in the industry. If you weren't making 50 calls a day, you didn't have a job, like, what are you doing? Did you not feel well? Why did you come to work? But now, I mean, I've tried the phone burners where you can do 75 in an hour. Yes, you get results, but there are easier ways as well. And I think mastering LinkedIn, yes, you have to master the phone.

Katherine Jerald [00:46:35]:
So I'm not saying never pick up the phone, but you need to do that early on. But really understanding your role with LinkedIn as well as those phone conversations, that's going to be twofold as opposed to singular, how it used to be.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:50]:
Awesome. Well, two last things before I let you go. First of all, if anybody wants to follow you, how did they go about doing that?

Katherine Jerald [00:46:56]:
Yes. LRaySearch.com is my website and I'm now on YouTube. Like you, Ben, mission critical search. And then everything on LinkedIn's under my name. Katherine. K A T H E R I N E Gerald J E R A.

Benjamin Mena [00:47:13]:
L D and before I let you go, I know we've covered a lot. I feel like I've laughed more than I have in a long time. Is there anything else that you want to share with the listeners?

Katherine Jerald [00:47:25]:
No. Again, thank you so much for having me. What an honor. You're a huge asset to our community, Ben.

Benjamin Mena [00:47:31]:
Well, thank you for that. And I've actually been looking forward to this conversation for a while. Kind of been on the sidelines just watching all the magic that you've been doing.

Katherine Jerald [00:47:38]:
Me too. What about you?

Benjamin Mena [00:47:42]:
And once again, this has been an awesome conversation. So for the listeners, you know what? Hit those goals, dial down on the LinkedIn, make 20, 25 a year, that you're going to crush it. Make it happen.

Katherine Jerald [00:47:54]:
It.