$28 Million Exit in 6 Years with Diane Prince

Intro [00:00:00]:
Welcome to the elite recruiter podcast with your host, Benjamin Menna, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership, and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:20]:
This is gonna be an awesome episode. But before we get started, this podcast guest that you're about ready to listen to is also one of the featured speakers of the Recruiting Growth Summit. So make sure to get your tickets. Sign up. The link is in the show notes. It is free. If you would like a copy of the recordings, it does cost $49, but to sign up is absolutely free to get a chance to listen to her, do a deep dive on and more even more deep dive than everything else that we're talking about now. So make sure you get signed up.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:51]:
And also book club, Relentless is going to be on March 1st. I'll put that in the show notes. Do you have a invite on LinkedIn and it is in the elite recruiter community. And there's a link for that in the show notes too. Enjoy the podcast. I'm excited about this episode of the elite recruiter podcast. I have a special guest, and we're gonna talk about how she started a recruiting company without any recruiting experience. 6 years later sold it for $28,000,000, a $28,000,000 exit, and since then has also sold multiple other companies.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:23]:
But I mean, think about that, knowing nothing about recruiting, jumping in headfirst, building a company, scaling a company, and then selling it to be able to exit for 28,000,000. So I am excited to welcome Diane Prince to this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast. Welcome.

Diane Prince [00:01:42]:
Hey, thanks, Benjamin. Super stoked to be here.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:45]:
So before we get started, give the audience a little bit about a little bit more about you.

Diane Prince [00:01:51]:
Yeah. So as my name is Diane and I so I'm I've been in this business for because my experience in recruiting and staffing spans over 3 decades. And now I help I help recruiting agency owners to build their businesses beyond, like, beyond just direct hire placements, if they want to. Right? Not that they wanna be a solopreneur or whatever, that's cool. But what my thing is really helping people to build a full robust business with recurring revenue that you could eventually sell, you could eventually exit, but also you're supporting be able to support yourself very nicely in the process.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:26]:
Well and I'm sure we're gonna be, like, kinda intertwine this into your story, but let's talk about how you even ended up in recruiting. Let's start there.

Diane Prince [00:02:33]:
Okay. Yeah. Sure. So for, for me, it started with knowing what our end game was instead of being in recruiting and saying, Hey, let's start a recruiting business. It was I was well, it was with my then husband. We were in our we were, like, 26, and we started the idea to think about it. And our idea was, let's see if we can figure out a business that we could build together and then sell it. So that was that was really the the goal.

Diane Prince [00:03:00]:
So that's why when I work with people, I always wanna work with, like, what do you wanna get out of this? Because then we work backwards and came up with the idea of temp staffing for title insurance people. That was the thing.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:12]:
Real real real quick, like, did you guys look at other business models and like, why'd you guys end up on recruiting?

Diane Prince [00:03:19]:
You know okay. So I had I had temp ed through college and grad school. My first experience, like, even knowing what it was is I I used to get student work permits and I'd work in Europe over during college. So I was 19, tapping the the like, the literally 3 days after I'd gotten to to London, I was literally tapping beer at a pub in Piccadilly Circus, like 19 years. I just, like, thrown it. I basically flew there, saw a job posting on a bulletin board, and, someone did it. I'm, like, have no idea how to tap beer. Right? And so some English man goes, how fast do you type? That's how I learned about temping.

Diane Prince [00:03:54]:
So I temped my way like all through London. It was great. And then I through grad school, I did. And so I knew about, I knew about that industry, like, you know, just from from that side, from being a a temporary employee. And then we met we married it with title insurance. I mean, it's kinda random, but my dad was in title insurance for his entire career. And it was actually his idea. We were at dinner 1 night because we kept on brainstorming different business ideas.

Diane Prince [00:04:18]:
And then he goes, why don't you start a temp agency for title insurance? And we're like, oh, and then we researched a little bit and then just dove in.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:25]:
Wow. Okay. So you guys picked recruiting, picked a business that you can build scale and exit. What's like, what's the next part of the story? You guys like hit, hit, go, hit start. What happened next?

Diane Prince [00:04:38]:
So, okay. Well, first it was so we did we we did we wrote a business plan. So before we were both working. We both had full time jobs. And so we and then we bought a book that I that I was so wish was stolen from there. I had it called How to Start a Temp Agency for Dummies. It was one of those, you know, those yellow and black books like for dummies And that series literally bought that book. And then, we spent the weekends writing a business plan.

Diane Prince [00:05:03]:
And then I, we, we put an ad in the paper for our title assistant. Those were that was one of the roles we knew we're gonna fill. We had no idea by by the way what a title assistant did, And put the ad on the paper, and back then, I mean, it was a PO box. So I I got a I rented a PO box near my work. Every day at lunch, I'd go look. And the fur literally, the 1st day I got a resume, I was so ex I couldn't believe someone actually sent me a resume. I cried. I was so excited, and I quit my job the next day.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:31]:
That is so cool.

Diane Prince [00:05:32]:
Had no clue. Like, we went we went we went straight to staffing. We didn't do direct hire or anything like that. So it was like we had w two employees almost right away. I mean, it was like it it it it happened pretty fast, but, like, didn't even know, like, anything about, like, workers' comp or, you know, the things that you had to do. So we just learned. I mean, it was like, oh, shit. Like, oh, sorry.

Diane Prince [00:05:50]:
They're like, we had to do this. We gotta do this. It was totally 1 step at a time.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:55]:
And when did you guys, like, make your 1st, like, internal hire in that process?

Diane Prince [00:06:01]:
Yeah. It was, so we had, like, our it was probably about 3 or 4 months in. Yeah. It was about about 3, 4 months in.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:10]:
And, between like the 2 models, like why did you guys choose staffing versus like a direct placement model?

Diane Prince [00:06:16]:
Well, because we wanted to build a business that we could scale and sell. So, I mean, we didn't even we didn't even think about, like, about a direct hire model or anything like that. It did that didn't even because we, you know, we didn't come from the recruiting industry, so it wasn't like, oh, let's do this or this or it'll still be easier. We just we didn't know anything, so we just started at at 10 minutes.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:35]:
Because because you've now seen like the the selling side of the things, like most often, what type of recruiting business actually actually gets

Diane Prince [00:06:43]:
bought? Well, it you have to have recurring revenue. So there's a few elements that you have to have, and this is something that that new founders can do from the beginning if they if they do wanna scale. So if they're thinking about building something. So they have to have you have to have a team. You have to not be the person, like, the business cannot just rely on you. So you have to have an executive team. You have to have the diversification of your clients. I I use I call it the anchor client strategy.

Diane Prince [00:07:13]:
So you have to have at least 3 clients that if everything else goes to hell, you can you can still your business would still sustain itself. In a later business, we had we specialize in mortgage during the 2008 financial crisis. Our biggest client was Countrywide and and their CEO was literally if you Google him, he was literally called the poster child of the financial crisis, but we still stayed in business. I mean, it was crate like, they went bankrupt. They went to BofA. We didn't get Bank of America's business. So diversify having a diversified client base, having and having that's why staffing is very good for exits because, an r RPO is another recurring revenue model that you can have, there's different models, but with staffing you're actually your clients can't really operate. You know, once you scale and you have enough contractors or employees in their business, they can't really function without your employees.

Diane Prince [00:08:07]:
So it, the, that helps.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:10]:
Okay. So like, we're gonna like jump back over to your, to your own personal story. So you guys started growing this company, you started scaling. Like, what were some of the lessons that you learned along the way before you exited?

Diane Prince [00:08:21]:
Oh my gosh. There were so many. 1 is stay focused, stay focused on what you do best because being entrepreneurial tends to be, at least for me, I I can get very and I get shiny yes. Exactly. Shiny new object like like Mhmm. Crazy. So it can be really hard to keep trudging through the monotonous parts because it's a very different skill set to start a business than to run it, to hire. So really to not, like, I mean, we started a school.

Diane Prince [00:08:51]:
We used to start all the and then we we shut down like all these other things we started, and they just ended up taking cash out of the business and being a huge distraction. So what I learned is stick with what you do best in your core, what your core business is. And then also, if you have not managed, like, I was a I was a terrible manager. I really had to learn. You know, I mean, I just didn't know. Like, I was you know, we're both in our twenties and, like, for a pretty sure period, just everybody hated us. But they did come back when we started another business, but, it's I guess it wasn't that bad. But I would learn I would really learn how to, how to manage and put the and also take care of your own kind of issues.

Diane Prince [00:09:29]:
Because as a founder and especially as you scale and you have lots of employees, all of your issues, you know, come to come to the table in business as well.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:37]:
Is there any like lessons that you wish you didn't have to learn during that 1st business?

Diane Prince [00:09:43]:
I don't know if that, because it just I knew you're going to ask questions about like looking back and I spent about 8 years trying to change the previous 18. So that's all other story. So I try not to kinda, like, look back at things like that. But I think all of all of the lessons that we you know, there were so many bumps in the road. I think I had just had to learn those just had to learn them, you know, because it's just part of life and, you know, I I don't know if I was always, like, I I've learned to be kind and I've well, there's a lot of things I've learned, like be a better manager, be kind. Like, there were just things that were just so crazy and always building. And so I've learned a lot of things along the way, and I think I'm I think I'm grateful for those lessons.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:24]:
Okay. Awesome. So if, if a company or if somebody is looking at building a recruit, a recruiting company to sale or to sell.

Diane Prince [00:10:33]:
You

Benjamin Mena [00:10:33]:
said that there's like some foundational pillars. So I know, can you recap like the things that you need to focus on? If you're starting a square one, but you're looking down the road and you want to sell your company in anywhere from 6 to 10 years, what are the principles in place that you have to have to be able to do that?

Diane Prince [00:10:50]:
Yeah. You want to be strong operationally, but you want to have, you want to have clean-cut accounting. So from the be then that was one lesson we learned too. I mean, like literally from trying to figure it out, myself on QuickBooks, it is not it was not a pretty picture. So so bring in, bring in accounting help as quickly as possible. And also even, even just if your budget doesn't if you can't handle a CFO or just some would somebody some kind of a financial adviser to actually review your business model and your plan to make sure that it is scalable as you're starting to build an ad and hire. So you so operationally sound, know your numbers. It's really common for entrepreneurs to not really know what their bottom what their what their breakeven point is even and their their expenses and income.

Diane Prince [00:11:40]:
So know get really familiar with your numbers. So accounting operations team, build the best team that you can and don't cheap out on equity and things like that. Don't cheap out on salaries and don't cheap out on equity. So get the best people that you can get, to to help you to run your business and, you know, the people around you that's super important. So it's team and it's, and you have to have you have to diversify your client base, so always be looking at that. You don't have a business if you only have, like if 1 client is over 50, 60% of your business, that's not really a business. So you've gotta always keep on adding. Always keep adding to your pipeline.

Diane Prince [00:12:20]:
They need to diversify your client base And, Yeah. That's, you know, and, and you have to have recurring revenue.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:28]:
Okay. Well, you, you mentioned something that, like, I don't hear too often in the recruiting space. Like team members with equity. Are you talking about like everybody having equity or is it, like, kind of like an executive leadership position?

Diane Prince [00:12:40]:
No. Not everybody, but, you know, I find and I and I've I've coached other kinds of founders too, like staffing recruiting founders and tech founders, and we did have people who had, like, managers. Some managers had equity, not everybody had equity. But when you're bringing in someone who's a super key player, like think about this because of, because of the whole startup scene, people have sort of gotten into the habit of giving like half a percent of equity, but in our biz in our business, it's not, that's not that meaningful. So, you know, I mean, we people did buy into our company as well, so they, they had skin in the game. But but we were pretty generous with our our president who we brought in once I was pregnant. And then I was on bed I was on bed rest for 3 months because I was like working up and I like, that was a whole other thing. I was working like a maniac.

Diane Prince [00:13:27]:
So we brought in a president, then we also had a COO. So key players, and we were we are pretty generous with equity. I mean, otherwise, we would've we would've we would've come out with maybe a lot more money. I don't know. But I always kinda figured if I'd rather have a smaller piece of a pie that is more successful and has more, more chances to getting to where we want to be.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:50]:
Okay. And okay. So real quick, you were doing everything up until you got put on bed rest during your pregnancy. Like what was the final straw that just like, I need, I need more help. Like you.

Diane Prince [00:14:02]:
Having contractions at the benefits, just like 3 months before I was due. Literally. I only drove myself to the hospital. Like, I always nuts. I was absolutely nuts. I mean and that that's the thing. It's like people say you were so lucky or like we had when we sold our business. Some of our some of our employees were like, it's like you won the lottery, and we're like, no, we actually, like, made a business plan executed on it non stop.

Diane Prince [00:14:26]:
But but no. But really, what we knew is what we did because we knew that we had this exit in mind all the time. We had a team of advisers and one was 1 key advisor was an investment banker and we would we met with him every quarter. We said, this is where we're at and and he was ultimately the one that brokered our deal. But so we'd go to him and get advice, you know. We didn't know anything. I mean, so we were like, what what do we need now? And then he would that's when we brought in our 1st other executive team member. And then and then from then we knew, like, operations, like, that was that, you know, kinda, I guess we kinda knew, but we also asked, we asked for a lot of help.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:02]:
Okay. It was mostly, wanted to ask that question because a lot of like entrepreneurs, like we, we have to do it all ourselves. We have to do it all ourselves until, like we hit a point where something is breaking and it sounds like breaking wise it was technically you during your pregnancy.

Diane Prince [00:15:18]:
Yeah. And I will say that the first key, because people ask me a lot of like, who is the 1st key employee? And so and I really believe in hiring for personality. And also, I believe that everybody, especially in an early stage company, everybody has to the company has to be they have to be motivated to be there. Like, they have like, a business has to be a vehicle for them to get what they want, like, whatever their next stage is or whatever. So my 1st employee was she was 17 and going to Pasadena City College, waitressing. And there was just something about, okay, now she is head of APAC at meta. So like so when I work with people, a lot of people are like, they have to have, like, 3 years of this experience or whatever. I don't believe in that.

Diane Prince [00:15:59]:
I believe in finding it and you then that that first hire, like, she did a lot of I mean, she did a lot of just everything that needed to be done. There's that, like, in a small business, there's that first key role that's sort of like an operations integrator. And then that role later becomes a becomes a COO. That's another key player that you need.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:18]:
Okay. So we were, you know, on the same like theme of hiring and you could have like sold your business, if you didn't have additional recruiters outside of yourself and your husband, your husband, right? Husband. Like when you're looking at hiring recruiters, first of all, when should you hire and how do you hire?

Diane Prince [00:16:36]:
Yeah. So when is really key because hiring can seem like it's it's growth, but it's not necessarily growth. You have to look at it when you're looking at your 1st hires is that it can they can hiring can also be a huge liability. So first, you wanna look at, like, what, what do you need to accomplish? What is it that you want? What is it that you need to get done? And how can you do that most efficiently? It might be it might be an offshore person. Like, it might be a virtual assistant. So looking at it might even be like an app, you know? So really looking at instead so instead of saying, like, I need whatever job description or job title, look at the, look at the actual tasks and then see how you can accomplish those. And then when you're ready to hire, be systematic about it. Recruiters are, known to be terrible for hiring for ourselves because we're so used to selling people.

Diane Prince [00:17:32]:
Like like, we get like, we wanna see all the good in people, so we're total pushovers when we bring right? You're dying laughing, I think. Is this like, are you relating?

Benjamin Mena [00:17:42]:
Oh my God. Yes. My, my first hire was like a salesperson and everything in the world happened. I'm like, I believe in you. Keep going.

Diane Prince [00:17:53]:
It's like, I got some system. So I've learned that I learned that the hard way and having a system in place. I was recently I was at a tech recruiting company very pretty recently, and so, like, that was I really learned that there, and we put a really strong hiring system in place to bring on internal people.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:09]:
Well and I wanna take a few steps back, and this is for the listeners. So one of the things that, like, we like, I typically advise people, and the reason why I'm asking this question is maybe I'm advising people wrong. When you're looking at starting a, like a recruiting company, a direct hire is one of the easiest places to start because you don't have to pay for the overhead and all those things. But you guys jumped in and like when a 100% of the staffing, you know, one of the barriers to entry halftime. And I got an episode coming up, talk, talking about factoring is the, Hey, how the hell do I pay this person? You know, it's net 15, net 30, net 45. I now have to pay this person weekly and I'm waiting 45 days for the invoice to be paid. Like, what do you do when you're getting started?

Diane Prince [00:18:54]:
Okay. Well, first of all, direct hire can be a really good way to start. If if you're able to then stash away some money, that could that can be a way to finance your if you don't then to avoid factoring. Okay? So that is an option. Like, you could really start a contingent firm and put away a couple 100,000 in a year or something like that and do that. So that is an option. So there's different ways to look at it. Also, when you mentioned, like, net 15, net 30, it was a I was talking to a founder the other day, and he just, like, mentioned how his you know, invoices are net 30.

Diane Prince [00:19:24]:
I said, wait, woah, woah, woah, why? And he goes, I just thought that's what everybody did. And he goes, like, no. Hold up. Hold up. So when I work with my clients, like, we all we talk about onboarding when you onboard your clients, and there's no net thirty. There's if they if they push, like, sometimes, of course, we have to make concessions and we have to negotiate. But setting up your billing expectations upfront because we had our collections were, like, I mean, they were there's always gonna be people don't pay, but we were, like, on top of our collections from the beginning. Our client paid weekly, most of them.

Diane Prince [00:19:57]:
Most of them. So, like, we were totally on top of it. So you can you can, you know, kinda train your client. This is this is how it works. You know, we we pay weekly, you bill weekly, so that's an option. I mean, we borrowed money. We were really I mean, my parents gave us $35,000. So, like, from that, we and then we were able to use that.

Diane Prince [00:20:17]:
So, I mean, I'm just saying, like, you can also borrow or, you know, get be lucky and get a loan from friends and family. One of my clients has they're they're a brand new agency and they have a traditional credit line from a bank. So there are other financing options. And then there is there's factoring, like you mentioned.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:34]:
What, what financing option would you recommend first out of all

Diane Prince [00:20:40]:
those? Well, first is I would recommend, either either starting out direct hire. And if you do that though, because people get, people get kinda worried about like, I get asked all the time, like how is staffing, selling staffing different? It's not really. So when if you start direct hire, then you ask you wanna ask people, do you also use contractors? How can we also help you with contractors? And you're just gathering information because you while you're sitting there doing the the contingent stuff, your your competitors over there filling all their, you know, 25 contractors. Well, you're not even asking. So so that's one way one way to start. And, I can't remember what you asked me. Oh, the bet the best way. I mean, and also, like, if you can get friends and family money, you know, we paid it back within a year.

Diane Prince [00:21:27]:
We needed another 30 k because we're growing so fast. We paid it back, then we got a traditional line of credit from the bank, and then there were times when we were growing really rapidly you know, so we did we did have to put our like, there were times when we're like, you know, selling off stocks and stuff like that. So, I mean, it's always better to not do if you don't have to do factoring, don't do it because it can be really expensive. But but if and if you do it, I have a post and some content about what the the things are that you can negotiate. But don't just take their terms. There's a lot of things that you if you are negotiating with the factoring company and company and considering it, there's there's different terms that you need to negotiate.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:15]:
And this kinda goes into the question on selling. If you're looking at selling your company, can you actually sell it if your back end is factoring or do you have to have everything in house financially?

Diane Prince [00:22:24]:
What you can set, you can say it, it just depends. I did actually with 1 business we had, I the one that I told you I sold to the former chairman of Adecco. We were like, I stepped in. I was CEO of that business, and that was that was factored. We did sell we did sell it. You just have to make sure that when you're those are things though to negotiate upfront because, like, with a factoring business, company, you wanna make sure that first of all, you don't wanna get into super long term factoring because that can that can be a detriment to buyers, you know, if if buyers see that they're gonna have to get it entered into this agreement with factoring. So you wanna be able to cancel the agreement, So don't get into super long term agreements with factoring companies.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:05]:
Definitely something that's something to think about that most people probably are not. So when you though you've got up to a $1,000,000 in payroll, you guys had a $28,000,000 exit. What is a typical, like, you know, is it a 5 x rate, a 3 x rate for recruiting companies when you're looking at selling? Or is it like a

Diane Prince [00:23:23]:
Another, like, really and I actually I just did a an interview with an m and a guy and that's so funny because I asked him that question because I knew there's not there's no answer. And he was, like, gave me the the answer that there's that. I'm like, I know. I just love it. So but but it's really it's it's about like, I mean, it can range anywhere from like 3 to 7 times EBITDA. Okay. So it's, it's pretty, pretty wide range.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:44]:
And the reason why I wanted to ask that is because I do have seen people sell their direct hire companies, but it's nowhere close to the, you know, how many Xs you get when you have a staffing company. So.

Diane Prince [00:23:56]:
Yeah. Yeah. And one thing I learned, is that it's funny because when you're first starting out, you're watching every penny. And then founders tend to when you get to the point where you have deals on the table, like, we'd be like, just sign it. Just sign it. There there are advices where, like, no. You're walking away from, like, whatever. Like, it's another 750 k or you know? But, like, by that point, it's like, I would just want the deal to close.

Diane Prince [00:24:20]:
So that's another thing. It's very, you wanna have a trusted advisor with you to help you to kind of talk sense into you.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:27]:
How do you go find that trusted advisor that can lead you on that path?

Diane Prince [00:24:32]:
Well, we had advisors from the beginning and you can now I mean, now there's coach you know, like me, there's coaches. I always tell people if they're if they're afraid of going into contracting, I always say, just ask. Just ask your clients if they do contracting and if, and then call me. I'll help you figure it out. So, but yeah, having someone, it helps to have someone who's been through it. So whether it's whether it's a business coach who's been through it, who sold their own businesses, I think it's good to have that perspective because even if it's even if it's a business broker and that and it depends on how big you are. Like, you know, at at 8 figures, you probably want you want someone different than if you're doing, like, you know, 7 figures or it it's just or, you know, it's it's just different based on kinda what your numbers are. You wanna have somebody who's gone through, like, a team of advisers.

Diane Prince [00:25:22]:
So somebody probably has gone through it as a founder. That's important because you get their perspective and then also you want, like the, you need like the lawyer, the legal and the financial experts as well.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:33]:
Mhmm. Awesome. And you we we've been sitting there talking about making all this money. We've been talking about exiting awesome exits of staffing companies and other companies you've helped scale, but to get even get there, you gotta have sales. You gotta have clients. What is working right now to get new clients?

Diane Prince [00:25:51]:
Yeah, I love that question. So I'm, and I'm big on biz dev. So, and that's a lot of what we do and, you know, because I wanna get help you I mean, like, get the exit can seem so far away, but, like, we'd get to, like, let's get to your first 500 k or, you know, your 1st new client. So what's working now? What is working now is not the same for every person or every agency. There is not 1 magic bean that some other agency has that you don't have. So some of my and I, you know, I get to see it cause I have all sorts of different clients that are selling in different ways. So when people ask me, my clients will sign up and they're like, okay, what's the best way for biz dev? And sorry to disappoint you, but there is no the best way is the way that you are going to cons that is going to work for you and that you're cons gonna consistently do it. So, you know, I like cold outreach.

Diane Prince [00:26:43]:
I do cold outreach. I teach cold outreach. It it's works for me. You know, like I just, I just was doing some biz dev for a recruiter. I'm not doing don't get excited. I know I can start knocking people out about doing it out. But, the probably literally called email, but if done the right way, it has to be done the right way. And then, but also, there's so many different I I believe in first going to their your warm leads because as recruiters, it's all putting the pieces together, candidates, clients, you know, clients that go to other companies, candidates that become hiring managers.

Diane Prince [00:27:17]:
One of my best I'll share my little best tip in getting in biz dev is if you any clients, I mean, any candidates, any any solid candidates who take a job that's not your job through another recruiter, I always get them. I always get them as my client. So because I I treat them like I had placed them. I take them to lunch or, you know, virtual lunch or whatever. So I act like you know, most recruiters just go off into the ether and, you know, move on to the next transaction. But it's cliche, but this this business really is about relationships, and that's something that people just tend to kind of they they kinda ignore all these these relationships that we have and start from scratch with like Apollo or I mean, this, you know, Sourcing leads is fine and it's good and it works, but I start with the people that you actually know and the people also, you can look at it like who, who do I know? And also who knows me?

Benjamin Mena [00:28:13]:
Great. I love that you cause I've, we've had a few other guests that sit there and talk about capitalizing on the placements that other recruiters make. And those are the ones that end up becoming clients because you actually do a better job taking care of that person than the actual recruiter that placed them.

Diane Prince [00:28:28]:
Yes. Yes.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:31]:
Phenomenal. And so 1, 2, beef, before we jump over to the quickfire questions, if you are looking at drawing up a game plan to sell your company, is there anything else that, you know, 5, 10 years from now, is there anything else that you need to make sure that's squared away or things that you should be thinking of right now that we didn't already mention?

Diane Prince [00:28:53]:
Yes. I would say one of the most overlooked things is networking with other recruit staffing executives, but go way beyond your level. Like I had, I networked with like, I spoke at Staffing Industry Analysts. This is another biz that was that business I mentioned to you that I took over when I was I was CEO. And, and I had been out of the industry for a little while, so I started I volunteered to speak at Staffing Industry Analysts. I got to meet executives at all the giant, you know, all like the biggest, you know, Kelly and Adecco and Manpower. I I've got invited to Manpower to speak. So don't underestimate networking and network, like, way beyond where you're at.

Diane Prince [00:29:38]:
Get known because I've so I've I've also, like, I've hired investment bankers. I've also sold the business just literally from just picking up the phone and calling people because I also developed relationships with people in the industry.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:49]:
Are you saying that because those people, or was this part of your strategy because those people are the actual buyers of, of agencies?

Diane Prince [00:29:59]:
Yeah. Some of them, some they're the buyers and they're the people that know buyers and yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:03]:
Yeah. And I love that you brought that up because it's something that I always see in the EC government contracting space when, you know, small mid size and go go over real quick. Government contractors are just very intense, unique staffing companies. But you start playing around with the bigger guys, go into those larger events 5, 2, 3 years before you're looking at selling. And I mean, re selling is once again, our relationship business.

Diane Prince [00:30:30]:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I sold, we had 1 division where we just, we just placed VMS people, so it was just, like, a very, high volume, low margin staffing. And we were that was, again, that one business. We had a lot of turn turnaround that was going on in that business, so we decided to sell off that spin off and sell off that one division to infuse cash some cash flow. And, I mean, we're like we're about to go to the, staffing industry analyst event in Miami that was, like, crazy expensive. And then one of my executives was like, you can't go. And I'm like, no.

Diane Prince [00:31:02]:
I'm going and I'm selling the BFS division at that conference. And I just finally, like, hopped out of flame and, and I I mean, literally, it was like the 1st night at some garden party. And I'm this you know, I'm talking to someone and he's like, oh, yeah. We met at the you know, one of the, like, career builder used to have these, like, crazy boondoggles, and he's like, oh, yeah. We met at, like, the career builder, whatever. He ended up having he was working with a private equity firm to do exactly, basically not to go to the labor, all the details, but that ended up the deal ended up happening because of that conversation. Because I had met him at the career builder thing, then ran into him at the lawn party.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:39]:
How did you keep track of all these relationships over the years?

Diane Prince [00:31:42]:
You know, I I just I am it I struggle with being organized like that. So I'd love to say, like, I have the system and I think I just I don't even know the answer. I think oh, I would I guess I would say like communicating and giving and and nurturing relationships when you're not asking for something. So offering value and, you know, I'm sure there you know, and people kind of come in and out of your life, but just being Oh, and be be curious about other people. So you're not just always like taking. But really like when you go to things like that, even if you're just going to a local networking event, go into it instead of thinking about what your pitch is gonna be. Just go into it being curious about other people and remember people's names. And that's like, that's huge.

Diane Prince [00:32:29]:
You'll feel like you're like way above the rest.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:33]:
Awesome. Well, before we jump over to quick fire questions, is there anything else that you want to share about building, scaling, and selling a staffing firm?

Diane Prince [00:32:41]:
Yeah. I mean, you can, you can do it like, look at, I mean, there's so many success stories and, it's hard work. It's really hard work, but this, this industry is an industry where you don't need a special degree. You don't even need a degree. I mean, you don't need you just need a lot of grit, and it's not, you know, people say, like, it's saturated. Everything's saturated. You know? I mean, it's like there's there's always new niches. There's always new technology and just it just takes a lot takes a lot of grit.

Diane Prince [00:33:13]:
And also don't be so don't worry if you don't know how to do everything. Like like, I just started without knowing anything. So don't feel like you have to know, like, everything about whatever it is. Just, you know, it's like I take a lot from the startup world and just start before you're ready.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:31]:
I absolutely love that because I think that's what holds a lot of recruiters back is the fear of not knowing what you're going to do when you hit that start button.

Diane Prince [00:33:40]:
Yeah. And also remember you can be creative. You might figure out some, you might have some different spin like RPO, for example, has so many different kinds of versions of it. No, recruitment process outsourcing and just entrepreneurship is creative. Otherwise, just stay in your job. You know? So if you're, if you're an entrepreneur, like we get to do, we get to do it how we want to. So don't worry so much about the competition or what, how it's supposed to be done. Have fun with it.

Diane Prince [00:34:07]:
It's and it's not, it's not that serious.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:09]:
Well, jumping over to the, to the quick fire questions. Cool. What advice would you give to a recruiter that's just getting started in the recruiting industry?

Diane Prince [00:34:18]:
Okay. Be a, be a good listener, learn active listening skills. That's going to get you really far.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:27]:
Awesome. And same question, but for people that have been around the block 5, 10, 15 me almost like 2 decades in. Uh-huh. What advice would you give to the recruiters out there to continue to have success?

Diane Prince [00:34:37]:
Probably the same answer. It's really like just, yeah, listen and be be as honest. Just when in doubt, just default to honesty. Don't feel like just remember like you're introducing like your job is to introduce the hiring managers or talent or whatever to the candidates, to introduce them to each other and share as much, be as transparent, and share the details. And if you take away the idea of, like, pitching or trying to convince someone and you just are completely like, the best recruiters I've seen and biz dev people are the people that just say it, are super clear and and you did there it takes a lot of pressure off of you doing. You don't think that you have to be pitching.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:20]:
Is there a book that has had a huge impact on your own personal career?

Diane Prince [00:35:24]:
Yes. I have 2 of them right here. So there's 2 I'm making a recommend because I listened to you I listened to your podcasts. I think these are ones that haven't been recommended yet. So FA Rework is one of my favorites. And this is it's actually not about recruiting, it's about startups. But I love it at so much. It's just packed with common sense advice that I really would like.

Diane Prince [00:35:44]:
It's a rework by Jason Fried and David Hanamyer Hansen. If you if you're in tech at all, they created Ruby's on Rails software. Okay. Then the other one is The Power of a Positive No because a lot of people, I would know me. Like, I realized that all of my problems were from not by not setting boundaries. So this is a really good book. I like even like it comes up so many times, like, even firing people or not. You just power negotiating power positive.

Diane Prince [00:36:15]:
No. It's by William Urie, u r y.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:19]:
Awesome. And, like, why the like, why did that those 2 books completely stick out for

Diane Prince [00:36:24]:
you? Well, because Rework, when I read it, I'm like, Oh gosh. Yes. Like, I wish just there's things in there, like, ignore your competition. Don't don't accept outside money unless you have to, or unless it's like, you know, like personal loan, you know, friends and family, something like that. There's just a lot just a ton of, just a ton of really practical advice that I think people kind of make it make business, like, too opaque or something that seems so scary. So it really helps to kind of break it down, I think, and just just make a lot more sense out of it. And then the power of a positive note is that, like, it comes up a lot with my clients. It's it's a lot of that, like, our own personal stuff.

Diane Prince [00:37:06]:
And people have can have a really hard time disappointing other people. And it also comes to play, like, if you're building your business, sometimes you can't like, people ask me all the time, how did you have a work life balance? Like, I had 3 kids at same time. I I I didn't. Like, I had nannies and housekeepers, and I didn't really like, there were a lot of things I didn't do. So there's with my kids, you know. I did have the flex I did have flexibility because I own the business, so I could be at things when I really wanted to, but, like, there are you know, so really, like, there's times when you have to say no if what whatever it is. It might be a social event. It might be, you know, so really like, it helps to know that also if you're disappointing other people, that's okay.

Diane Prince [00:37:45]:
Like they're allowed to be disappointed, but that doesn't have to, that doesn't have to change your answer.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:51]:
I absolutely love that. Now jumping over to artificial intelligence and recruiting, what's your thoughts on the future?

Diane Prince [00:37:58]:
Okay. So I have having been through having been through, like, so many technological advances. Now, when I I I think I posted a picture on LinkedIn today about Luke with me and a fax machine. So like I convinced you that. I've been doing this for I'm I'm I'm very old, but I was

Benjamin Mena [00:38:15]:
No, you're not.

Diane Prince [00:38:17]:
My first assignment in London, I had to use I I they had made me use the fax machine and then I had no idea how to do it. And I overheard the, the office manager saying to the other employer, remind me never to hire a temp again. So that was my first assignment. Anyway, there's been I mean, what's my I think that it's great to have tools, you know, they can they can improve especially, I mean, AI, it's it's mind blowing what we can do with chat gbt and AI, but, you know, people have been talking about in the last 30 years that I've been in this business, people have been talking about how technology is gonna replace people. So I don't we're still here. So

Benjamin Mena [00:38:54]:
Love that. Now do you have like a favorite rec tech tool that you love that you've recommended to your clients?

Diane Prince [00:39:01]:
You know, I thought about this cause they, it it it is always changing. I mean, like, who's who's favorite is not ChatGPT right now? I mean, it's like in all its different iterations. Like, I started using TypingMind. Someone referred someone talked about it on your podcast. So there I mean, it's just dressed up in all different different outfits, but it's all it's all basically ChatGPT. So, I mean, I'd like to think of something like creative that other people haven't said, but I'm like, who's he's not like that's, that's just, that's not my

Benjamin Mena [00:39:32]:
favorite. And jumping back and I should have just like continued to this thread, after the books, but looking at your own personal success, you've built scaled, worked your ass off sold companies. What do you think has been a huge driver for your own personal success?

Diane Prince [00:39:50]:
I, a lot of it is my personality. I'm Okay. I'm I and I realized building my first business, I realized how much I liked building businesses and being entrepreneurial. So I think leaning in leaning into my personality, because there's been it hasn't been all it hasn't been all, you know, all what is it? Butterflies and get butterflies and roses or something like that. You know, I mean, I got divorced. I you know, I mean, a lot of things happen. So I think though that my, like and the the the more experienced I get I'm not gonna say older, I'm gonna say more experienced I get. The more that I realize to lean into who I am and do things that, you know, we only have a limited time on this planet.

Diane Prince [00:40:33]:
So I think that's it and just continually to realize like, okay, I believe we only live once, and I'm gonna do I'm gonna do it my way and just having that just having that constant drive. And I'd rather even though things are can be really hard, I had a clothing business, so when I was and that did not go well. Like that. So, you know, that was that was a big disaster. So just but always, like, I'm I'm I'm very resilient and have been able to pick myself up and also to ask for help when I need help.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:05]:
Okay. And I'm gonna ask this question twice in 2 different ways. So everything that you know now, if you could have a cup of coffee with yourself shortly after you got out of school, as you're entering the workplace what would you actually tell yourself for advice?

Diane Prince [00:41:20]:
Yeah, this is a tricky one because I thought about this question a lot. I mean, I probably, and this is like, I don't know. Like I would oh gosh, I don't know if I I haven't gotten divorced while I still had all my money. I would tell my I would tell myself. I would tell myself a lot about relationships. I would tell my lot myself to, value myself and to listen to my gut and to go with my gut and trust myself. Not trust not trust others blindly.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:50]:
I'm gonna ask that same question again Yeah. Like focusing on the on the recruiting and the staffing business. What would you tell yourself in the early days if you got a chance to like advise yourself?

Diane Prince [00:42:00]:
Mhmm.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:00]:
As like, we'll say maybe like a month or 2 after you got started in the recruiting world, what would you tell yourself?

Diane Prince [00:42:05]:
I would tell myself to to to learn how to be a really good manager. That was the I think that was that was the 1 piece that so we hired some really good people, and we were really driven, and we are a great partnership. Like, my ex husband and I, we were really good business partners, and we brought in really good people. But I I think I was so inexperienced in leading other people and managing that I think it was I think I just would have felt a lot better about it had I been had I been a kinder manager. You know, I was I I I didn't I had to learn how to empower people instead of micromanage people, and that took me a long time. And I I learned that the hard way.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:47]:
Yeah, it's definitely a good lesson. It's, it's tough, especially when you're first starting off and like you're growing a company and like everything's on the line for you financially. So like, those are hard lessons to implement. So could have seen you over bringing that up.

Diane Prince [00:43:01]:
When you, when you promote people, if you're promoting people to manager too, it's really important to support them and teach them get them tools that they need to learn how to be a manager.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:12]:
Awesome. For the listeners that would like to get ahold of you, what's the best way to do that?

Diane Prince [00:43:17]:
Yeah. So I'm all over LinkedIn and, Diane Prince. And then my, my website is diane prince. So diane princeprince .co.co.c0. Yeah. Okay.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:31]:
And I'll make sure to have that in the show notes. So all you have to do is scroll down and click on that to make it easy for you. Perfect. And for the listeners out there, is there anything else that you would love to share with them before I let you go?

Diane Prince [00:43:42]:
I would just say have fun. Like it's, it's, it's not that serious. Just, just do it and don't, you know, don't worry so much about what other people are doing or, you know, and look at, like, always okay. This I'll leave you with this. When you're thinking about going for it, to always ask yourself what's the best that could happen and what's the worst that could happen and then make your decision.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:02]:
Awesome. Well, I just wanna say thank you much for jumping on the podcast. I think there's gonna be somebody that's listening to this and I guarantee you within about 6 to 10 years, they're going to turn around and be like, this episode of the elite recruiter podcast is what spurred me to build scale and sell my staffing company.

Diane Prince [00:44:22]:
That's awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:22]:
And I cannot wait to hear that story. So thank you guys for listening. Let's make 2024 your best year yet.

Diane Prince [00:44:28]:
Oh, yeah.

Intro [00:44:29]:
Thanks for listening to this episode of the elite recruiter podcast with Benjamin Menna. If you enjoyed, hit subscribe and leave a

Benjamin Mena [00:44:40]:
rating.