$20 Million in Placements: David Bradley's Story as a Standard Bearer in Recruitment Leadership

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
Welcome to the Elite Recruiter Podcast with your host Benjamin Mena where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership and placements.

David Bradley [00:00:18]:
I am so excited about this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast because as a firm owner, I've seen two types of firm owners. The ones the second, they have the team, they will just want to hang it up and just go sit on the beach. But then there are those that become the standard bearers. They become the examples. They become the type of person that they want the rest of the team to be like. And I am so excited to have David as here to part of this podcast because he is the standard bearer of his organization. When I talk about standard bearer, over $20 million in placements, averaging $750,000 a year in placement fees with years over 1 million. He has a team of 60 people.

David Bradley [00:00:58]:
He could choose to just hang out, but no, he's actually being the standard bearer because that he knows by his example other people can do the same, other people can live their dreams, other people can hit their goals. So I'm so excited to have David. Welcome to the podcast.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:13]:
Thanks Ben. Great to be here.

David Bradley [00:01:15]:
So real quick, quick 30 second self introduction about yourself before we get rocking and rolling.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:19]:
Absolutely. Mark. I grew up on the other side of the pond actually in Canada. I've been here now for gosh, 30 years. But I grew up in family. We've all migrated to us. We're all in Michigan here, Detroit, Michigan area. Clarkston to be exact.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:31]:
Right up the road, that's where we are now. And married, five kids, great wife that's at home, you know, managing the household. I get to do this great business and five, four grown kids, one that's just finishing high school. So we're a big sports family and lots of fun media companies all in Michigan here. So yeah, absolutely.

David Bradley [00:01:48]:
I mean you guys are Michigan and I've seen like you talk about it like big hockey player too, right?

Benjamin Mena [00:01:53]:
I love the game of hockey. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I love about the game, still play it twice a week and, and now I've been here long enough, I keep to cheer for U.S. and Canada. Right. And the nation. Got it. It was fun.

David Bradley [00:02:05]:
So you must have loved the game recently too.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:08]:
Oh, it was, it was, it was, it was awesome. Yeah, was glued to it. Yes.

David Bradley [00:02:13]:
So you've been, you've been in the business for a while. So let's take a step back. How did you even end up in this wonderful world? Of recruiting.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:21]:
Well, I stumbled into it, let me tell you. So I, I grew up in, in a, in a household where had a mom that was just an absolute workhorse. So I learned a lot from her. And my dad had a vision. He always taught me about entrepreneurship, always taught me about the value of starting your own business, having your own business be the concept of self employment. I grew up in a lawn care landscaping business. At age 16 I was cutting grass and it built up a company, soldier sold it. I had like 200 plus customers up in Toronto and so I really learned entrepreneurship and the value of hard work and getting your hands dirty every day.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:50]:
So and it was just that from kind of learning that, selling that and probably some of the vision. I wanted to get into sales. I knew I wanted to my income and my life to be determined on what I did. So long story short, wanted to get into sales, wanted to drive something, looked into real estate, looked into different, different options. But I had, here's a business, you can drive by the phone and I'm like, I can be in control of my destiny. So anyway, still thought went into a recruiter to find a job and next thing you know he turns the tables on me and asks me if I want to be a recruiter. So next thing you know, here I am 30 years later in the biz. So that's kind of a long story short.

David Bradley [00:03:23]:
It's amazing how just like one decision or meeting one person can have like a 30 year career impact on a person.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:32]:
Absolutely. I think I remember seeing his paycheck and it was, you know, it had to be like July or August and he had already, this is again 30 years ago, he had made 80 or $90,000 by like August. I'm like, that's just for my humble beginnings where I began. Like that was a lot of money. I'm like how, how does you know and you get to talk to people all day on the phone. I'm like this is, this is something I gotta explore, I gotta get further into. So anyway, yes, that's true.

David Bradley [00:03:54]:
I want to kind of get into like how you like got your firm started, all that stuff. But like I want to talk about the standard bear and I know we're going to come back to that later. As a firm you have co founders, but you decided that your role was a standard bearer. Why is that?

Benjamin Mena [00:04:11]:
It's a great question. Yeah. So essentially I look at myself and my two business partners who are fantastic at what they do as well. It's my natural talent. I think that's leading by example, being in the trenches, being the guy that's doing the push ups every day. That was my value proposition to the firm along with being the rainmaker. Bringing people into the fold was my strength. And so I think it sort of was a default.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:32]:
Like that's where I found my success for the first 16 years working for a big Fortune 500 company called Spherion. And so I'm like, I learned from that angle. So I'm like, that's was the natural evolution when we started the firm 16 years ago to carry on that role, which is really important one.

David Bradley [00:04:47]:
Okay, and let's jump back in this furion days. Like, you know, you were doing great as Ferion. Why did you decide to make the jump with some buddies of yours?

Benjamin Mena [00:04:54]:
So we're going Back to the 2008, 2009 timeframe. Obviously the recession had hit, the mortgage crisis, all kinds of crazy stuff was going on. And, and I remember people telling me asking, you're crazy, you're gonna start your own business. And anyway, it was, it was a time period where there was a lull, natural lull. My partner Doug was, you know, was looking at things and realizing that the market was changing. His ability to keep his group together was changing. So it was a natural evolution to like, let's take the best system. The greatest things about our old company.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:21]:
You dismiss the ones that aren't good and bring them over. So we started, you know, with three people and a stone house back online. That's how it all kind of got going.

David Bradley [00:05:28]:
How long did it take for you guys to start staffing up?

Benjamin Mena [00:05:30]:
It didn't take long. I mean the vision was to get ourselves, get our lives back and then start to build from there. But it was, it wasn't long. It was probably, oh, a couple months. So we started tapping the shoulders of folks we knew that were in the business and, and, and looking at young, young, young folks coming up to graduate college, looking at how they could add value. And so yeah, it wasn't long. We were, we were up to eight to 10 people by, by the end of year one. So it was a real quick ramp up for sure when you guys actually.

David Bradley [00:05:56]:
Let me take a few steps back in this. Like did you guys like all get together? Like all three of you guys, like, we're going to go start a company or was it like, were you guys like forced into it?

Benjamin Mena [00:06:05]:
Doug was the catalyst, our founder was the catalyst to really identify that hey, this wasn't working for him. So it's, this ain't working we explored a couple options to maybe join forces with a different firm. And it made the most sense to unplug back in 09 and start to start to map the strategy to do movements. So it was really the market, I think all our billings were down. We were facing a mortgage crisis and everything was happening. So it's like if we're going to unplug, now's the time to do when everything's kind of naturally low in his ability I think to he was having to close offices and so you know, I think he, he was worried about, you know, what's going to happen. Our office as an example and am I going to lose big producers. So I was his top producer for pretty much every one of those years.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:43]:
So I think he had some concern I'm going to lose, you know, Dave, I might lose some other key people and now I'm going to have to rebuild anyway. Let's rebuild with our own brick and mortar and do this. So it was a ballsy move I'd say at that time in life, you know, with the market the way it was and you're starting something from scratch. But we're glad we did it.

David Bradley [00:06:59]:
And you guys are now have, was it 60 recruiters across five different cities?

Benjamin Mena [00:07:04]:
Well yes, five and we have some remote folks too that are out, you know some is a group, one in Vegas, one in our fakes but Vegas was one for a while. Phoenix, Arizona and we've got some affiliates around. But yeah, for the most part most of our group is in brick and mortar office. We got a spread out group across the country. The main hubs are, you know, Detroit area. We got two offices in Detroit area, Royal Oak and Clarkston. One in Grand Rapids, Michigan, west side of Michigan, Charleston, South Carolina and then Sarasota is our latest office. We opened up in 224.

David Bradley [00:07:33]:
Okay, so you guys started in Michigan. How did you guys start growing these like additional offices in other places in other cities?

Benjamin Mena [00:07:39]:
Yeah, and it really, it was really an organic place. So it wasn't something where let's grow out of ambition like we want to be this big. It was really like let's give opportunity for the people we have and let's fill the jobs. So it was like we were developing this business and organically it kind of grew to you know, we needing more people. So it was very much a pure organic play. We didn't buy anyone out. And there's a couple, you call them acquisitions along the way where we to call them a tuck in acquisition where we Looked at people with a book of business and sort of brought them into the fold. A couple of folks in Traverse City and what have you that had been in the business.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:10]:
But for the most part it was, let's go find great people in recruiting. Let's go find great salespeople that can do this business. Let's find great, let's call it college kids. We start looking at college kids and they're, you know, let's say juniors, sophomore, junior, and then look at those high potential people and then go to colleges and recruit people and train in the business from the ground up. So a lot of that type of organic play. And it just, you know, it's every year there's a draft class of movement folks coming and, and of course we, you know, you say goodbye to people too. So in this business, as we know, is a very tough business. So not everyone's able to stick with it and do it.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:43]:
So it's, it's kind of plus pluses and minus each year. That sort of gets to that, that 60 number we're at today.

David Bradley [00:08:48]:
Okay, so you said draft class. Like you guys actually look at it as like a draft.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:53]:
We really, you know, it's kind of, that's our phraseology. Right. But it's every year we're looking at, we're always scouting for talent. That's not like, hey, let's hire this year when the market dips. We're always hiring, we're always looking for those eight players. And I think that's what really allowed us to soar during COVID where we were bullish during COVID and knowing that everything's going to come back. Right. We were going through this time phrase where, you know, we had a year or two or how long, we didn't know how long.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:17]:
Right. That everyone was retention, closing offices, our competitors were closing offices. We believed in the culture of being in the office as best we can is right. As soon as the pandemic goes over and it's, let's go. So draft class, you're right. So it's every year is a draft class. We do trainings, we do training groups so that we can get, you know, and it's really fun to go back and look at, you know, draft class and see, you know, you predict in your mind who's going to be the top biller, who's, who's going to stick long term, who's not. And so it's kind of fun to go back in previous years and look at how that pans out.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:44]:
But so and the training together really develops a bond between those people that are training together. And you hope that they're all with you for a lifetime. Okay.

David Bradley [00:09:52]:
And one of the things that actually just kind of blew my mind and we were chatting about this offline is 70% of the placements that you guys have. And like we're already looking at like $20 million a year of placements is split deals across the organization, correct?

Benjamin Mena [00:10:08]:
Yeah, you bet. Yeah. That's unique, isn't it? I mean, yeah, that's our special sauce as we go to a client when we get new business, our ability to sell the client and we're going to cover job, we can cover jobs in five to seven days. We've got the job covered. We could have three to five really good candidates in play. So I think it's, it's having 60 sets of eyes and ears on a roll. Doesn't mean all 60 people are working that job, of course. But we're very much team play.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:32]:
So jobs get announced, deals get announced. And we're very, we're kind of a nomadic group. We've got people that are kind of niche in certain areas in some cases, but many of us are generalists where we're just, we're really good at recruiting and head on engineers or manufacturing folks or salespeople and we do the research, we go find with people. So it's a unique, unique model that really works.

David Bradley [00:10:51]:
And you guys are all like direct placement too, right?

Benjamin Mena [00:10:53]:
Yeah, I'd say about 80% direct placement. We do contract as well. So we've got a whole buck of business there as well that I feel like our business. Yeah, largely, largely perm placement and retainer. Retainer contingency vote for sure.

David Bradley [00:11:05]:
And, and this is going to go back to a conversation and this is one of the reasons why like I actually love in person events. You know, get the chance to meet you at a Pinnacle Society meeting. You know, you got the presentations and all the teaching that happens. But the real secret sauce is the conversations that happen after the day is done at a restaurant or at a bar and you're breaking down about like how you guys grow your people and grow your team. When somebody comes into your organization, like they start off as what typically.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:35]:
So there's a different models, like if someone's coming in, if they're new to the recruiting business, they come in as a head on, a support model where they're paid a base salary, they're trued up in commission each quarter, bonuses each quarter. We learn the business, the Right way. We're teaching the business, they're being mentored with other headers around them to really learn, learn the right way. Right. So it's, it's that typically if there's someone's coming in full desk, they'll come in like they've already had recruiting experience or, or they could be a senior salesperson that's got that moxie, that swagger. They've been in our type of sales. Maybe not that head hunting sales or recruiting sales, but that person has a little maturity in their background and understanding the business. So we'll bring them in full desk right away.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:09]:
So it's kind of like that process of teaching, training and mentoring to bring them in.

David Bradley [00:12:15]:
Awesome. And you guys like also have figured out how to make the culture work, which is hard. One of the things that a lot of people make the mistake of when you're staffing up and growing and scaling an organization is like the way that I do things, the way that I lead is just the way that it works. But in the people business, dealing with the two sided sales of people, how did you guys really start developing a culture that created a lot of like high builders and consistent builders that people that just keep on growing and you guys have people that stick with you guys for sure.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:48]:
When we hire someone, we want them to be with us for a lifetime. We hire people with that retention. There's a great Peter Drucker expression. It's culture eats strategy for breakfast. It is essentially saying that culture is everything. And it really is. If you build your business around culture and treating people right and having the right systems and the right interplay of people, it all sort of takes care of itself. We don't manage the business with some master strategy of again, we want to be in this market or we're going after this vertical.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:12]:
It may, may be a byproduct really. Our mission statement is so darn simple to hire people that are dedicating their lives to this business. We want them on the team and bring them in, in the fold and then grow that way. But culture is huge. Whether it's, there's so many ways, there's great examples in our company of how we, we do that. And there's so many interactive events and we're big on, you know, cornhole tournaments and incentive trips and you know, Wednesday breakfast and all kinds of stuff that we do to try to make people feel part of something bigger. I mean, this is a tough business, right? It's a simple business, but it ain't easy. And so Anything you could do to have amenities and office space and the coolness factor to, to take the business off the charts where people want to come in and they want to be part of something.

David Bradley [00:13:52]:
And you guys have, what was it, two incentive trips a year, Correct?

Benjamin Mena [00:13:55]:
We have one. One big incentive trip. We have a big one coming up this fall. It's a destination trip and everyone can make it. It's a number you got ahead, a billing number by from January to July. We want everyone to go. It's not like the top 10% naked. And that was one of the flaws in our old company, right? The top 10%.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:12]:
I never billing 500k one year. I didn't make trip because I wasn't at the top 10%, you know, so in spouses come. Old, old company spouses didn't come. That was absolutely imperative that plus ones could compete trips. And now though, they're the biggest cheerleaders at home. Encouraging employers. Just come on, you got to crack in the web at home to make sure that they hit the numbers so they can go. So these are big tricks.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:34]:
There are hundreds of thousands of dollars we invest. We learned a statistic recently that for every dollar you spend in these trips, it comes back to you twelve fold in terms of productivity. And that's a study that was done from our incentive group that does our trips, which is really, to me, that blows my mind. So it's just in 12x. A 12x factor. 12x factor. Yeah. Yeah, It's a big deal.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:55]:
It was shocking. I didn't realize it was that much, but it's because you. And I think what I found from most companies, they look at these trips or these massive investments as costs. Right? They look at it as, hey, this is costing us money versus what's the impact and what's the stick factor of people year in, year out. So it's remarkable. We don't hold anything back. These are five star trips. And the problem, you want everyone to partake.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:19]:
You wish everyone had a chance to be there because when they're there, you know, they really, they buy in. They buy in. They don't want to miss one. I remember my first trip. I went to our old company once I made it, I wanted to be everyone.

David Bradley [00:15:28]:
You've created a culture that like pulls other people up.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:32]:
Yeah, for sure, for sure. We look at it as kind of an inverted pyramid. You've got the three owners and principals of the firm. You've got the management group that manages each office. We have someone managing each office who's also A working manager, everything's meant to feed the roof, feed the head honors. And it's like each person in the firm's a P and L. They're an individual business. We look at them as a self employed.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:54]:
Again, they're W2 employees. And then they get full benefits. They get all the, all the goodies that you get with a company. But they are their own P and L and their own business. And we encourage them to think of their business that way. They're not unemployed. So it's that. So it's what's the greatest things we can do to feed that group and whether it's the benefits, the incentives, the trips, all the extra stuff.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:13]:
And so when you got a flat organization like that without a ton of people overhead, you can do those kind of things and create a special environment, for sure.

David Bradley [00:16:22]:
Awesome. And then that kind of like goes back into a little bit about you, like dig in and day out, I should say year in a year out. You've been a consistent big biller, averaging 750k per year. Why did you decide to, you know, take the role and keep on recruiting and keep on hammering it out where I feel like you could probably easily take on a different like role at the moment.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:44]:
Yeah, for sure, for sure. You know, and I think that the role has, there's more time and attention and eyes on bringing people in the firm and trying to keep an eye on them. But again, I don't have a formal management responsibility in the firm, but I certainly lead by example kind of management responsibility, let's call it that. You're right. Yeah. There's no question that, you know, that the billings of the firm, it's really karma versus, you know, what I can do at my desk level. But there's no question, I think being a standard bearer and being that person is a ripple effect. I think what other people, and I want people to beat me, so it's a good healthy competition.

David Bradley [00:17:15]:
Do people actually beat you?

Benjamin Mena [00:17:16]:
There's been a few years, but. A few years? Yeah, Yeah, I relish it and it's a great thing. And so that's good for the company for sure.

David Bradley [00:17:22]:
So is, is there a Beat David award?

Benjamin Mena [00:17:25]:
You know, I, I, I, I hear rumblings when we do the meetings and stuff like that that people are on my tail. And I, I love to hear it. I love to hear it. It's good, it's, it's really good.

David Bradley [00:17:34]:
So, but taking a few steps back, like, what does this consistency and work ethic actually look like here in a day out for you or week in a week out.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:41]:
I'm super consistent with my day. It's a very structured, structured event. I mean I, yeah, there's some give and take, but I can't pay someone to do your pushups. In this business, you're not plugged in working seven days a week, but you're plugged in seven days a week. Your eyes and ears, the donuts gotta get made seven days a week. You know, you've got calls to make, interviews to prep. I think it's managing your life and integrating it such where it's, there's, you know, you work, life balances, it's all, all combined, right. So I joke all the places I've closed deals, you know, whether it's been at Disney World or many, many of the hockey rinks before, many at the school's performances, you know, everywhere you can imagine, you know, closed or to move the interview process forward.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:20]:
I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that.

David Bradley [00:18:22]:
You just said like a line a few seconds ago, you can't pay somebody to do your push ups.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:27]:
Correct.

David Bradley [00:18:28]:
And I feel like we see that a lot in the recruiting space of somebody wishing you could pay somebody else to do your pushups. But like, how did you come about that line? Like, where did that even come from? And why did you like. I've heard you say that multiple times.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:41]:
Yeah, I, I think it, I mean it was grain into me or drilled into me when I was a kid and just, you know, I saw my mom, how hard she worked and she was just a absolute. I mean you're really a great example of that. So I think it's just, and, and relishing that and feeling good about that. I feel great about a day when I've accomplished something. I've put my absolute 110% into the day. So I think that the push up thing is, is just, it's an analogy of working out, right. If you want to make it to the big leagues, whatever you're doing, you can't play pro by, you know, you can't pay someone to do push ups for you, right. You got to do them yourself.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:10]:
And you gotta, you gotta live by example. And so I think that's in, it's best, I think as the tools. We've had these onslaught of tools come at us, CRMs and LinkedIn's, Recruiter and Zoom and you know, all the AI tools that are just coming like a tsunami towards us. And those are all great, right? They're great. How do we take advantage of those and bring them into our day. But I think the end of the day it's applying yourself and being, being plugged in and being, you know, applying yourself. This is the toughest, let's call it 60, $70,000 a year business in the world. And it's the easiest half a million dollar a year job in the world.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:43]:
Someone told me that once and it's, it's really rings true.

David Bradley [00:19:47]:
That is so true.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:49]:
You know. And so what's the half a million dollar person doing differently than the folks that are scraping by. And they're all good people, let's call them all good people. But what are the little, slight edges? Slight things are doing the little things they're doing. Maybe they're doing a few more reps of push ups a day or whatever it may be. They're looking at their business. It's not all about hard work but it's looking at how do I apply this tool or that tool and bring new things under their desk and make their desk thrive. Right.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:13]:
Make it interesting whether it's attacking bd, a different bridge is developed in a different way or looking at how they go about the candidate experience or are they visiting their clients or. I think it's important to continue to reinvent how you do things. And that's another thing that's made it interesting.

David Bradley [00:20:28]:
I mean looking at you, I mean you're definitely the 750k plus biller constantly like, you know, I feel like this might be like just normal you yours to it. This is how you operate. But you look at other people because you're in pinnacle. You talk to other recruiters, you see the recruiters on your team. What the hell are you doing? Different than compared to that 70k biller that has the hardest recruiting job in the world.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:51]:
Yeah, that's good. I mean back to the motivation piece. It's the thread get thrill. The deal still excites me. I mean closing a deal, getting a 30k, 40k whatever it might be 20k, 10k getting those deals, it's the thrill, it's the high of the placement. I think that's still pleasing that client. That hard to fill job. So what am I doing? I mean I, I, I, I look at myself as very consistent, very cons my numbers.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:11]:
I look across the board on the metrics, the daily metrics, the phone time, you know, if I'm not the outputs aren't right. On the other on the right side of the ledger then something on the left side of the ledger, we call it the metrics right? The phone time, the presentations, the email sent. We were as a company very KPI metric. And we looked at all those things. They're not measured with a, with a stick and a hammer, but it's, it's more of a carrot. Like, hey, this is where you could be if you did this. Let's diagnose why the billings aren't there. There's probably something along the line whether it's you're not right enough jobs, you're not, you're not sending enough candidates out on presentations, their phone time sucks, it's terrible.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:45]:
And that door or whatever, I think I'm very, very focused on that. And I bring it every day. I mean, I think it's, this is something, I see it a lot, right? Someone has a great month, they're on top of the world, they build 100k or something like that and they take the next month off. So I think it's kind of keeping that activity. It's always, always sort of consistent. And I think that's what has enabled me to, you know, oftentimes I don't know what I go with at the end of the month. I just know there's a lot of good stuff happening, a lot of activity.

David Bradley [00:22:12]:
So what are you tracking then? If there are months that you have no clue what you build, what are you actually tracking?

Benjamin Mena [00:22:16]:
This name is very well tracked. Our CRM tracks that. We do monthly meetings where it's announced to our whole group and we celebrate our deals. And so yeah, I do know my subconscious mind, but it's not like I'm thinking about it. Oftentimes we do the monthly meeting at the end. I'm like, oh, that's what I built. Okay, it could be a bandwidth of 70 to 120. I don't mean part of it's based on when the start dates are and those types of things.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:37]:
But my point I'm trying to make is this is an activity driven business. When you do the right activities, everything comes out on the right side of the ledger, the right way. So that's why I'm like, I don't know necessarily what I build that, that you know, nor do I, nor am I paying close, close attention to that. But I'm looking at, am I covering all my jobs? Am I opening enough new doors, Am I working enough other people's jobs? Because I don't just work my own jobs, I'm working, you know, other people's jobs in the firm. I'm like, you know, very, very my head on a swivel because we'd got 60 recruiters, I'd say 2/3 to 3/4 of them are full desk. Meaning they're either writing that they have good, good jobs right now, they're working jobs, or they're, you know, attempting to get new business. So I listen, that's where the split plate comes in. I want to know the combos.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:22]:
If I'm working an engineering role in Michigan, I want to know what. Does someone have a similar engineering role in Michigan? So we're. Yeah, a lot of that's where the team play comes in.

David Bradley [00:23:30]:
So, okay, so you have like 60 recruiters and then somebody brings in a new job. Like, how do you prevent 58 of them trying to work that one position?

Benjamin Mena [00:23:39]:
Yeah, that's great.

David Bradley [00:23:41]:
That's.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:41]:
That happens to some extent. But I think people are generally focused on their own book of business and growing that book of business. But are you trying to manage that as a permanent meetings? Right. To make sure that when you sign up for a job, we don't have 10 people Sign up for the same job. That's not well organized business. But a lot of times you generally have two to three people in the firm that are dialed in. They have call lists, they're actively working those jobs. And then there's 47, 50, 55, whatever other people that know about the job.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:10]:
So they may have a flyer for you, they may have just talked to a candidate last week that's perfect for that role. So it's kind of organized chaos. But at the same time, we're so entrepreneurial that there's no borders, no boundaries. And that's what makes us special. And our old, old environment was like, you will work accounting, finance, you will stay in this geography. This is the box you're going to work in. And so we are. If it's good business and it is good gross profit and it makes sense, then, yeah, go work it.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:34]:
Go, go attack that. Bring that in and let's fill it.

David Bradley [00:24:37]:
I remember those days like we're cutting your territory a little more. So the business that you had over there, we now have to give it to another office. Because you're special.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:46]:
You know it.

David Bradley [00:24:47]:
I want to go back to this. Go back to the KPIs. Like you guys, everything's measured from your guys. ATS, correct?

Benjamin Mena [00:24:52]:
Yeah. Exactly.

David Bradley [00:24:53]:
What ATS are you guys using?

Benjamin Mena [00:24:54]:
We're using Bullhorn.

David Bradley [00:24:56]:
Okay. When you look at the metrics and the KPIs that you measure, like with all yours being tracked, can the rest of the organization see like some of your stuff.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:04]:
Absolutely. Everyone sees. So that's a. That's a beauty too, is transparency across the firm. And everyone in the firm knows what everybody's making and what we build. And it's on a board and it's announced. We announce our deals every week. We announce, hey, so and so had 10 interviews this last week.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:19]:
Great. What are you doing? Who are you getting them with? What's the clients? And so it's. It's absolutely. It's a learning moment for the other group to say, hey, this is hot. I need to jump on this bandwagon, or whatever. So it's very transparent. So the CRM tracks all that. And our sort of, our minimum standard is.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:34]:
We have coined this a long time ago. I think it's a low standard, but it's 10, 5, 2. So 10 hours of phone time a week, that means 10 hours of connect time. And that's amazingly tougher to kid than you think, because we only look at what you're using with Ringcentral. Right. Or a phone app. So we're using outside of that and five presentations a week and two interviews, either on site or virtual interviews. So those are the things we're measuring across the firm.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:59]:
And we look at that as kind of the standard. If you're not hitting the minimum 150k benchmark that we set for everybody, then we want to see 10, 5, 2. Like, show us that. Because we know if you hit 10, 5, 2, you're gonna hit the other numbers. In my opinion, that's like, make it 12, make it seven, four or whatever. Like, try to try to beat that. But 1052 is kind of where we look years ago as kind of a good benchmark.

David Bradley [00:26:23]:
Did you guys figure that out by looking at all the data, or is that just like something that you guys like? You know what we're going to make it? 10, 5, 2 is the magic number to be successful here.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:31]:
Yeah, we kind of track. We looked at where our successful people were and what their averages were. I think two weeks ago, we just haven't hadn't really updated it. So it's kind of kept consistent over the years. What's challenging now is because now you have all these other, you know, tools. You've got email, you've got texts. So we're track. We track text, you know, how many texts you send.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:49]:
So we look at all that data. But I think there's been a lot more in that bucket, the email bucket, the text bucket, as the phone is kind of, you know, people weaned Themselves off the phone. And the phone couldn't be more important. It's where business is done. Things happen when people on the phone.

David Bradley [00:27:03]:
So I've been talking with a lot of people in the secret sauce right now. It has actually been the phone. But how do you convince like some of your team members that like the phone is now the secret weapon?

Benjamin Mena [00:27:13]:
Yeah, I think that's where modeling that behavior. I grew up in the time frame where the phone was everything. Right. The phone was king. Actually four hours or five hours of phone time was good. Not two and a half or three or one and a half or 30 minutes. We see it all over the map. So I think it's modeling that and not allowing these other great tools to sort of cannibalize the phone.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:32]:
Right. So just. And a little things, little tricks I'll do is if I get a text, I'll call the person back, you know, as just a little trick. Right. Or yeah. And everything evolves. A phone call, if I can't catch them on the phone, I'll text him as a backup, you know. And it's a challenge, right? It's a challenge.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:48]:
With this day and age and the generation we're in now who've grown up with texting. And so it's, it's an age old thing, but I think modeling it is probably the biggest thing we had stuff we can learn from, you know, the texting aspect, it's an important aspect of the business too.

David Bradley [00:28:01]:
Once again, you being the model, like you setting the standard, you wanting every single recruiter on your team to actually beat you. But still you hold yourself to these high standards. I mean, we're in recruiting. There's months that are just absolute shit in hell. How do you stay consistent through those? To still have that consistent billing year after year after year, that's like exceptional.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:21]:
Yeah, yeah. I guess when you say shit. My last week was like that. Six different situations where. Well, four offers that fell apart and two that were deals were done last month and the candidates were supposed to start in two weeks and they fell off for all kinds of reasons. Right. You know, one was a failed drug screen. One was a.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:37]:
Oh goodness. A rescinded offer because of a business pullback. You know. You know the story, Ben. This happens all the time, right? So yeah, shallow enough shit, you're going to find a pony somewhere. Right? But yeah, it's part of the business. There's so much greatness and so much output. You can make so much money in this business and have a million things fall off Here, that's where numbers, I think insulating your business with activity where you sort of stomach that.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:59]:
I think the quicker you can get over those types of turndowns and bad situations, the better. And the more experience, the more gray hair you have, I think the better you get with it. But one thing I like to do is when I've had a bad week or a bad day, we do our Monday morning meetings with our group, all 60 of us on teams. We're all together either in physically in an office or on virtual and we announce all our placements. Every single placement start gets announced and there's a clap for that person and we give, you know, a little 10 second pitch in the client, the future of that client. And to me I'm like, all this bad stuff happened. But you know what, there's 15 placements that were made this week across the firm. So there's money being made somewhere.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:36]:
And I think that's what was fun about being part of Pinnacle too is just, you know, stretching myself beyond just four walls of 60 people and seeing that there's people that are successful in all kinds of different spaces in this business.

David Bradley [00:29:48]:
Let's talk about that. Like you joined Pinnacle, like why did you decide to join the Pinnacle Society?

Benjamin Mena [00:29:52]:
Two things. I wanted to find a way to give back and offer time. And it hasn't quite happened yet. I've been to a few annual meetings and I look forward to, as the future unfolds, to getting to know more people and offering more. But I felt I needed to stretch. I need to get better. I think when you look and you talk to professionals across the country, across the world that are doing this business in different verticals and different avenues and using different tools, to me, I want to bring as many best practices that I can back to back to movement. So that's really why, you know, is to become better myself.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:20]:
How can I scratch? Right.

David Bradley [00:30:22]:
What are some of the things that you actually pulled away from the Pinnacle members and Pinnacle Society and has actually implemented in a team of 60 recruiters?

Benjamin Mena [00:30:28]:
Yeah. So there's a lot of work in progress. I mean, I'm at a desk level, trying to bring AI more into my desk. So chatgpt looking at all different aspects of how I can save time, create more. So we're doing a lot, I'm personally doing a lot more of that. It's also been a reassurance for me going to these meetings that we're doing a lot of things right and that's. But also maybe a validation process. We've been very, very good and thanks to, you know, my two other business partners, Doug and Chris and everything.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:53]:
But as well for just creating systems that really work. We run our business by, you can set a watch to it, how things work and the consistency of how we look at everything from comp plans to benefits to tools and how we roll things out, how we manage our people. It's very, very transparent, very, very professionally run. And I think it's many, many steps up from where we were at a Fortune 500 company, how they rolled things out. So it's been really fun to take best practices and I think that's where I think I can offer a lot to move to. The pinnacle is just looking at how we've done certain things and how we rolled things out. I get pinged a lot by Pinnacle people too, just asking me, hey, what's your comp plan? How do you guys compensate? How have you scaled? So just tie that in.

David Bradley [00:31:35]:
I do remember that I was just kind of just sitting with my glass of wine over the corner and you were just getting peppered by these million plus dollar billers for like a good 40 minutes of like everything that you guys are doing at movement like this, like, what about this? What about this? What about this? How do you do this? How do you do that?

Benjamin Mena [00:31:50]:
I was just like, yeah, I'm super proud of where we are and what we've been up to accomplish in this crazy, crazy business where we've got 60 heads that can all decide not to show up tomorrow. And to say, I'm, I'm packing it in. That's good. Back to your culture question how important that is. The stick factor of having people really glued into this business and want to do it here. And to answer your question then I think there's a lot I can personally offer to Pinnacle by giving a lot of experiences. What we've done and how we've done things and what I found. There's a lot of fear about taking steps like that, hiring people.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:24]:
And we were bullish from day one. We've learned a lot. We made mistakes along the way too, but you know, we've gotten pretty good at hiring and looking for the right types of people. But if there's something we could bottle up and sell it, we'd be millionaires. But it's so hard to find the right people to do this. This business. It's a simple business, but it ain't easy, right?

David Bradley [00:32:40]:
That is true. And recruiters sometimes are the worst at recruiting their own team.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:44]:
Shouldn't be that Way. Right.

David Bradley [00:32:45]:
We're great at helping all our other clients. When it's us, we're like, what? Yeah, well, anyways, anyways. So before we go to the Quickfire questions, I actually have one quick question about something that you mentioned. And you said that like you're the rainmaker and you're a bit of a rainmaker setup for those that are listening. What does that actually mean?

Benjamin Mena [00:33:01]:
Well, it really means I'm looking to bring as many clients in and I manage any at any given time with probably eight different clients. So that's a pretty good swath. You got your A's and your B's. You got some that you're really caught with and some that are kind of maybe fractional where you're doing maybe a deal or two and some that are just future there to build something. So it's kind of a, I look at like managing a portfolio of stocks. You've got your, you know, your really active ones that are just soaring and you're really, you're probably giving your 80, 20 to those ones and you're maybe trying to nurture these ones and you may be trying to exit some of them too. That's where I'm talking to rainmaker. I'm trying to bring as many people into my desk and have people feed off of that and build their desk off of it and hopefully catch fire where they can turn around and be a rainmaker themselves.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:42]:
And I'm not the only rainmaker, by the way. We've got several that have multiple clients, but mine tend to be maybe more and maybe I can always do a better job of penetrating those clients more and getting my hooks into more of their business. But we've got some fantastic folks here and that it all begins and ends with the people. We've got some fantastic ones that are really done that and we're forever grateful because if it wasn't for their death, there wouldn't be many, many recruiters underneath them feeding off of that.

David Bradley [00:34:08]:
Love that, love that. Well, jumping over to quickfire questions and it don't need to be quick answers and I'm sure this is advice that you give constantly. What advice would you give to a brand new recruiter that's just getting started? This is their first year, 2025 recruiting period.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:22]:
First thing I would tell them is go pro right now. Go pro right away. Don't have a plan B. I think when you have a plan B or you're like, hey, if this doesn't work out, I'm going to go over here and do this, I think you need to have your blinders on it and absolutely immerse yourself into the business and commit to the business and learn it. So I think what happens is you get. We get a lot of resistance sometimes where people aren't listening right, or coming in. They think they got their own ideas. We've been doing this for 30 years.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:48]:
And yes, maybe they will have some ideas they can bring with them. And so those are a couple of surefire things. And I think the other one is to plan your own strengths. No one's going to be exactly like me. They may be better, but they may be themselves in a different way. We've got some folks in our firm that are just absolutely fantastic account managers where they just are able to take account and it becomes a multimillion dollar account. And that that account lasts for years upon end. They do a wonderful job of nurturing those C level relationships.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:12]:
And I'm probably more of the grind it out, bring new clients into the fold, try to grow them. There's a lot. So just be yourself, right? Not everyone has perhaps the tenacity or they don't spew the business the way I do. There's the numbers gain aspect of it. So hey, build deeper relationships, you know, or become more niche. I try to be niche in some areas. That's kind of a long winded answer, but same question.

David Bradley [00:35:31]:
But for somebody that's been around the block 5, 10, 25 years, like, what advice would you be giving to them?

Benjamin Mena [00:35:35]:
I would say try to reinvent yourself, you know, in different ways. Everything you do by habit, challenge it and looking at it and saying, okay, is this the best way I should be doing it? Looking around to the people around you, how they're doing it. Whenever things get dull, I'll go visit a client. I'll just get out. I'm doing that today. I'm gonna go see someone. 2:00 today. I'm like, yeah, I don't have to do that.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:55]:
We've already got several interviews set. Things are rolling with this client. But I'm like, I wanna walk their shop floor. I wanna see the plant. The president's gonna be. I'm gonna be able to shake hands with the president. I'm gonna be able to see HR meet, build that relationship. Nothing bad happens when you visit a client and you get out there and change it up.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:11]:
Take a different way to work, take a different, you know, direction. Maybe go to a conference, shake things up. Buzz can keep us out of a rut, right? Maybe go do Something totally different. Go play. For me, it's hockey, right? Go play hockey. Lunch and just clear my head. So it's just those little things. Have fun with the business and just look at it.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:27]:
Look at how you, you know, how you're doing it.

David Bradley [00:36:29]:
What do you think? That's one leadership principle that has actually.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:32]:
Helped you, I would say accountability and ownership. And we try to ingrain that with our folks from day one. This is your business. This is your business, not our business. We're here to facilitate. We've got the shingle on the roof. We're going to give you the facade for your business, but you are the business. So this is your P and L.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:49]:
So I think that accountability and ownership and doing what you say you're going to do, when you say you're going to do it and do it with the style and the communication, you got to do it. So it's just owning the business. I think that's the number one thing, having the ownership mentality.

David Bradley [00:37:01]:
Has there been a book that's had a huge impact on your career?

Benjamin Mena [00:37:04]:
Yeah, I'm a big book guy. Well, podcast more so. But there's one I kept in the back right here. But 10x is easier than 2x, I think I heard on another podcast, Scott Love podcast. Literally. I was on Amazon buying it five seconds later. And it's a great book. It's fantastic.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:18]:
Anyway, it goes into. It's not so much working harder, it's how do you work smarter? How do you maybe get rid of some of this stuff? Getting rid of the bottom 20% of what you're doing, or even getting rid of about 80%, looking at the top 20% of what you're doing and just how do you get better and better and better at that? So that's been a mind shift kind of book.

David Bradley [00:37:36]:
Okay. And you've been in this game for a bit and you've seen the industry change, you've seen it evolve. Like in 2025, what is actually working for business development right now?

Benjamin Mena [00:37:46]:
So it's, you know, I do a lot of add on questions, so I'm continuing to. I never go into working at someone else's job or even work at my job with the mindset. I'm only going to fill a job for this client. I'm always asking out on questions. So every, every recruiting call is gold. So it's simple things like are they going to be a fit for this job I'm recruiting out? That's one of the first key questions. If they're not they're not interested. Who do they know? Or how could I expand that? Or how could I keep that person in mind for future roles? I have a favorite question that I ask everyone.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:14]:
I say, how's business? It's the most basic question in the world. But it's, it's gold because it's an open ended question everyone can answer. And with the first sentence they say is gives me a strong clue where I'm going with the call. And usually it's one of two things. Oh, we're, we're the tents folding down or we're this or that or it's the opposite. Oh yeah, we can't keep up. We are so busy, we have a backlog, done orders, we got this going, that going. So the antennas go up.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:38]:
I mean they're going to have needs. And then I like to ask them, how did you find your job? How did you land at ABC Company? Do you land by a recruiter? You find it on your own or through a recruiter? I always like to know that because if they find it through a recruiter, there's a good chance that that's another lead. Right. So we're using LinkedIn Recruiter. We use a lot of tools, right? Zoom info and a lot of different things, but there's nothing that replaces that repetition of the phone building those relationships with pianists you're talking to and getting leads that way and asking for referrals. So once you're doing business in a space, you know, building that relationship with them, what other companies are doing well in your space that, that maybe there could be an opportunity for. So it's firing in all cylinders and.

David Bradley [00:39:13]:
You know, looking at your success and you've been consistently successful, like, you know, pull apart a few layers. Like what are some of the reasons that you can contribute, the success that you've had to.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:25]:
I think it's the structure being very, very structured about my day, my time. So it's like when I get up, I'm up early, 6am, you know, get back to my daughter at work and I'm at my desk, you know, between 7:30 and 8:30, depending on the day, every day, Saturday, Sunday morning. I'm generally doing something with my work, with my recruiting in the morning, a couple hours in the morning and then I put it aside for the day. So it's, it's consistency and structure. To me it's paramount, you know, structured and consistent.

David Bradley [00:39:52]:
Let's go back in time, let's look at the days when you started at, you know, that you Were recruiting career. If you had the chance with everything that you know now to go back in time and have that conversation with yourself, what would you tell yourself? What advice would you give yourself?

Benjamin Mena [00:40:05]:
Do you know? What I would do is I think back then I didn't know what I didn't know. So I was just kind of just like a bull in a china shot, working hard and that's all great. That was key. But I think the number one thing, I'd have more swagger from day one. And I think there's a tendency, I think when I got into business, you sort of look up to those plant managers and those VPs and those, the C level people you would speak to or interact with you. You'd be looking. Not that you shouldn't respect everyone you talk to, but you'd look up to them to the point where they're here and I'm here. And I think that's a big factor.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:35]:
There would be no delay in the swagger. And I think people that come in our business, I see early 20, 20, 25 year old somethings that do kill it, have a great year. I'm like, what do they do differently? I think it's a swagger factor. Is calling high level. And I learned a long time ago that there's very, very. Actually there may not be no one I've ever placed that makes more money than I do. And I don't say that with, I don't say that with a tone of, you know, ego, but it's more of a. Just of we're special.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:03]:
What we do, the service we offer our clients is very, very meaningful. And we're not just telemarketers, right? We're moving the needle for companies and their performance. We're moving the needles for people's lives and their careers. So that money is just a benchmark, right? But I think it signifies the importance. Importance of what we do. We build something from nothing, right? Every day we create everything. We create our own economy. So we deal with the tools we have in front of us.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:29]:
That's one thing for sure. Swagger.

David Bradley [00:41:31]:
Let's fast forward. I think it was like nine years or 10 years when it was just three of you guys sitting in a room. You're a month into starting movement, you guys are just hitting the phones, pounding it, like just talking about the vision and the future. If you had the chance to go back in time after that first month and just like sit down and give yourself advice, what actually would you tell yourself for this journey?

Benjamin Mena [00:41:53]:
I would say I Think there's times along the way where you're knowing that this is a journey. Right? It's just gonna take time. It's a journey. It stops about the destination and enjoy every minute of it, which I think we did, and that's probably something that we did do. But I would say we're in this for the long haul, so don't sweat the small stuff. You know, if you have a hire that doesn't work out or you lose a client or these little pitfalls along the way, or just things that have happened. You know, one year into the business, we had a client in Canada we were going over to do some work for, and we had a issue with the border. At the last minute, we had to improvise, and we had a bunch of interviews set up, but they said how somehow we couldn't go across the border because we didn't have the right visa to do the work over there.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:29]:
So we had to improvise quickly. And just a good example, but I think just don't sweat the small stuff. This is a journey. Don't ride the highs too high or ride the lows too low. That's what's so beautiful about this recruiting business. We create our own economy with what we do. When I look at layoffs and I look at the bad things that happen to people's lives with jobs and. And just cutbacks, and at the end of the day, we get to control what we do.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:51]:
We get to control our. Ourselves. Right?

David Bradley [00:42:54]:
That is true. One of the interesting things about recruiting is how the business has changed. Like, how do you stay on top of, like, the latest tools and trends and that kind of stuff.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:02]:
I follow you, Ben. I wrote your coattails. You're not. I do. I am so plugged into stuff you're doing. I think you are, to me, one of the pioneers in this business. I really. There's so much respect to vanilla sitting beside you in Atlanta and Pinnacle.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:17]:
I just. I just. I was hanging on every word you. You were talking about with AI to me, I think that was so interesting. And it's. So we're all scratching our heads. How do we take these awesome tools and help us be more productive? So anyway, that's a big thing, is staying on top. I innocent of the podcast.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:33]:
I'm a big fan of them. You know what? You got to pick your spots. You know, yours. Yours is great. I listen to Mark. I listen to the other ones out there. Your rock a year coming up. I'm going to attend that.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:41]:
I just. What was the One, we did just start the year one.

David Bradley [00:43:44]:
Here's the sales and BD summit.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:45]:
Yeah, I did that. I did the one last fall. And I listen, I. And I go back and listen to that stuff. I buy the advanced. You know, it's pennies on the dollar for what you get in return. So I encourage anyone listening to that buy, join that summit, get involved, listen to it, and just, that's what allows you, I think, to take your business to another level and get out of the rut of just doing. Cause just the business is a grind, right.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:07]:
And you just, you're doing the same thing every day. If you're doing the same thing every day, you're not. You're not getting the results you want, then you gotta do something different.

David Bradley [00:44:15]:
Well, I mean, that goes into your question. Like, how else are you stretching your mind? Like, you do a lot of learning, but how else are you stretching it?

Benjamin Mena [00:44:21]:
I like to do stuff totally outside. I mean, I, you know, in a men's group on Friday mornings. I like to be part of that. It's a Catholic men's group I plug into that. I'm very involved in it. My kids, school, sports. I like to meet friends and family outside of work. I don't always talk about work, but I always stretch.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:33]:
And it's to me, the sports. I play a lot of racquetball at hockey. And those are my two outlets where it allows you to take that competitive juice you have with this and do the thing. I think stretching my mind isn't always doing more work. It's sometimes giving your mind a break to really, truly just take a pause from this business and everything and just maybe some quiet time.

David Bradley [00:44:53]:
Absolutely love that. Well, and being part of a firm owner, being part of Pinnacle, you're always hiring. Sure. You're getting questions from recruiters like, what about this? What about this? What about the tech tool? All these like strategic or tactical questions. Do you wish that there was a question that a recruiter would actually ask you?

Benjamin Mena [00:45:10]:
Was more people? And I, I did this when I was got into business is I looked at the top producers and I sort of spend time with them. I need to work their jobs or ask them a ton of questions. I almost wish more people would cat you on the shoulder and ask me, hey, how do you do this? How do you do that? There's a queue that do, but quite a few that don't. It's like free knowledge, free information. They don't need to buy me lunch. I don't need lunch. It's okay. And so I think that, and I think people want to share, they want to give you tips and techniques and traits and how we do it, whether it's how to do some shortcuts on your email to be more productive, efficient to, you know, what the types of clients are going after.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:44]:
I wish more people were, have that mindset to want to be better and want to get better and do better.

David Bradley [00:45:49]:
Awesome. Well David, for people that want to follow you, how do they go about doing that?

Benjamin Mena [00:45:53]:
I'm on LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn. Movement, search and delivery. You could find it there, you could find Facebook, you could find the firmware. Very, very movements all over. We do a very focused job of keeping the company branded and having, having. We brag more about our culture than we do anything else about the events and the fun stuff we're doing and the, you know, the annual meetings, the incentives coming up and just we do a lot. So that's how they can find me.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:16]:
It's, I'm pretty easy to find for sure but. DanielBradleyovementsearch.com is the email address. DavidBradleyovementsearch.com awesome.

David Bradley [00:46:25]:
And before I let you go, is there anything else you want to share with the listeners?

Benjamin Mena [00:46:28]:
Just anybody looking to get in this business. This is an amazing business. I go back to the age old expression, it's a simple business but it ain't easy and it's a true statement. What I love about it is we are not calling a one vertical, one industry, one type of person. We have a very broad swath of what we can do. We can pivot, switch gears quickly. I think that's what we as movement try to do a lot of. So when there's a vertical or something's down, automotive's a little bit off right now.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:54]:
So we'll dovetail and be creative about how we go after tackle new, new, new business. You have the power that within this business, take advantage of that and know that you are in control of this thing and control the inputs and ultimately control your life. And which is, which is pretty special.

David Bradley [00:47:07]:
I absolutely love that. Well, David, I just want to say thank you. Like, you know, I've seen you like after hours at the bar, just in there like pouring into other recruiters. And I think some of those recruiters are even bigger builders than you. Just like, hey, here's exactly what we do. Here's like how we have it broken down. Here's X, Y, Z. But also it's hard to stay consistent year after year after year.

David Bradley [00:47:29]:
With the kind of success that you've had, but you've structured your day. You've become accountable. You've become the standard bearer that your organization needed and needs as part of the team that you're with. So I absolutely love this, and I can't wait for this episode to go live. And for the recruiters out there, if you're part of a team, maybe you are the standard person that needs to be the standard bearer. Maybe you're the person that needs to be the one that lifts up the flag of the organization and said, hey, follow me. Let's go. So I want you to crush 2025.

David Bradley [00:47:59]:
Let's go.

Benjamin Mena [00:47:59]:
Awesome. Thanks, Ben. I look forward to seeing you in Vegas.

David Bradley [00:48:01]:
It'll be fun. Keep crushing it, guys.

Benjamin Mena [00:48:03]:
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast with Benjamin Mena. If you enjoyed, hit, subscribe and leave a rating.